I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

Park Place finally put the white 61 DeSoto 4 door HT online - my memory is failing me as I swear it had a blue interior (must have confused it with the Mercury), but still a cool and uncommon car, I liked it.

And they have another 61 DeSoto of the same model/style - 2 at one place, weird. This one has better upholstery but the dash isn't as nice.

ab348

The white one has had the dash/interior "restored" and is unoriginal in the seat upholstery and some of the finishes on the dash. The black one looks mostly original inside and while it is missing a few of the screws and knobs on the dash, would be preferred by me.

fintail

Other than the velour in the white car, what is wrong inside? Is the dash paint too shiny? I'd want to change out the upholstery for sure. I can't stand modern velour in old cars. IIRC, the car was also on ancient looking bias ply blackwalls - that car needs correct wide whites.

Anyway, cool cars, the front end isn't as outrageous in person, the space-age interior, fins, and dual antennas are cool, and the hardtop is stylish.

explorerx4

Space age design is was my first thought, too.

ab348

fintail said:

Other than the velour in the white car, what is wrong inside? Is the dash paint too shiny?

Yes, too shiny on the dash and I think the steering wheel has been refinished incorrectly also. It should be two-toned like the other car. Surprised that the exterior paint isn't two-toned on these. I agree they are cool to see. I wonder why the collector preferred 4-door models? Maybe they started out as a cheaper way to go and then it just became a theme.

omarman

They look like 2 different steering wheel styles. The black one has a description which includes "easy grip steering wheel" option but I didn't see that listed on the white car.

fintail

The seller seems to have received a collection of "ordinary" cars, which are quite different from their usual stock. Most of them seem to be single tone, maybe a preference of the prior owner.

Their "new arrivals" page shows many of these normal 4 door sedan cars

kyfdx

fintail said:

The seller seems to have received a collection of "ordinary" cars, which are quite different from their usual stock. Most of them seem to be single tone, maybe a preference of the prior owner.

Their "new arrivals" page shows many of these normal 4 door sedan cars

I'll take this one:
http://www.parkplaceltd.com/used-cars/detail/2007-BMW-Z4-M-Coupe/995/5UMDU93527LM08313

fintail

Is the price realistic? They are sometimes on the optimistic side, to put it nicely.

kyfdx said:

I'll take this one:
http://www.parkplaceltd.com/used-cars/detail/2007-BMW-Z4-M-Coupe/995/5UMDU93527LM08313

berri

I enjoy seeing sedans and station wagons because those are the kind of vehicles we actually owned and drove in growing up. I find the 52-54 Ford's interesting. They were quite popular back in their day and nicely styled, yet seem to get little coverage in the collector and old car show world.

kyfdx

fintail said:

Is the price realistic? They are sometimes on the optimistic side, to put it nicely.

kyfdx said:

I'll take this one:
http://www.parkplaceltd.com/used-cars/detail/2007-BMW-Z4-M-Coupe/995/5UMDU93527LM08313

Prices have started to creep up a little. Sort of surprised to see it under $30K at a dealer. Black on black is probably holding it back a little.

kyfdx

These guys have been ruining the market.

http://enthusiastauto.com/qsearch/?form_request=56&action=results&showres=1&1268_0=39&selLevel_1268B0D=1&selLevel_1268B1D=39&1574_0=1

fintail

Ah yeah I have heard of EAG, milking the speculation trend. From what I recall, they've done a lot to inflate prices on older M cars.

fintail

My grandpa had one like that in the mid 50s. Dirty whitewalls, because WA in the spring:



He was into Fords until switching to Chrysler in 1965.

berri said:

I enjoy seeing sedans and station wagons because those are the kind of vehicles we actually owned and drove in growing up. I find the 52-54 Ford's interesting. They were quite popular back in their day and nicely styled, yet seem to get little coverage in the collector and old car show world.

uplanderguy

Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg Museum in Auburn, IN is astonishing. So worth the visit. The only U.S. auto museum in the original factory administration building and showroom.

http://www.automobilemuseum.org/

explorerx4

@uplanderguy,
I've always wanted to go to the ACD museum, but so far it has not worked out.

fintail

There's a chance I might be in that part of the world later in the year. If I am, I will try to visit that along with the Henry Ford Museum etc.

explorerx4

@fintail,
Don't forget about the Studebaker museum if you get to South Bend(not too far away in same state of Indiana the ACD museum).
RV museum is near South Bend in Elkhart.

berri

Gilmore Museum in Hickory Corner near Grand Rapids, MI (Lake Michigan side of state) is a great place. You won't be disappointed. You should check it out before you finalize any trip plans to MI/IN.

That 52 Ford had a nice, clean looking dash inside as well.

fintail

I'd definitely need to make a list of car-related things to see if I go to that area. I also want to go to Chicago for some filming location geekiness (all of the John Hughes material there).

I remember when I was a kid, a family friend had a very fancy Econoline converstion van, something that was really trendy around here in the mid-late 80s. It was a "Country Cruiser", from Elkhart, IN - I remember the spare tire cover.

kyfdx

fintail said:

I'd definitely need to make a list of car-related things to see if I go to that area. I also want to go to Chicago for some filming location geekiness (all of the John Hughes material there).

I remember when I was a kid, a family friend had a very fancy Econoline converstion van, something that was really trendy around here in the mid-late 80s. It was a "Country Cruiser", from Elkhart, IN - I remember the spare tire cover.

Elkhart is the center of the conversion van universe. My late sister-in-law spent her whole life working in area factories, in that industry.

fintail

I wonder if anyone still buys anything similar. Most of the Euro style vans that have replaced the old full sized vans seem to be outfitted as RVs rather than conversion vans. I think there are still a handful of SUV conversions out there anyway.

There used to be a conversion maker in WA, "Trail Wagons" in Yakima, they were pretty big for awhile, too. My aunt and uncle had a conversion Econoline from them when I was a kid, as it had captains chairs, and was pretty plush, I thought it was cool.

kyfdx said:

Elkhart is the center of the conversion van universe. My late sister-in-law spent her whole life working in area factories, in that industry.

berri

If this van's a rockin', don't bother knockin'

Mr_Shiftright

I got to see a really obscure car yesterday:



Jaguar never made a Mark V estate wagon, but this conversion was very professionally done---and, stranger yet, it is LHD!

uplanderguy

My original plans were to do the Gilmore and Auburn in one trip, but my travel mates didn't want to have two nights in a hotel. I think it would've been too much. Behind the A-C-D is something called NATMUS (National Automotibile and Truck Museum of the U.S.). Sounds pretty heady--it's a basic building that was a factory building for A-C-D, and is unheated, but some cool stuff in there, and a volunteer showed us their restoration shop which is not a normal part of that tour. Lots of International trucks in there since they were built just down the road in Fort Wayne.

I think I am going to do the Gilmore in April. Some of their buildings are closed until the end of March.

I belong to the Studebaker National Museum and go there yearly, in May during meet weekend there. I love the place, but the Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg facility just blows me away. Studebaker's Administration Building is still around and sturdy, and many wanted it to be the 'new' museum, but the funding from Indiana just wasn't available for it to be used. There are still some folks sore about that. My take is you can't always get what you want.

For such '30's movie star cars, I'm always amazed that they were built in a small town like Auburn, IN.

omarman

Strange. Shooting brake? So chassis built and sold by Jaguar to a coach builder? Or was it a complete MK V saloon converted? That roof line and windows! How did they do it?

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, I think it was just a chassis, running gear and the regular Mark V from the windshield forward, and then the coachbuilder added the steel 2-door body.

The Brits had a highly skilled workforce of metal workers after WW II, and many went into coachbuilding. But this trade quickly died out by the late 50s, early 60s, and factories did their own custom bodies or simply didn't offer them anymore. Companies like Rolls just bought out the coachbuilders and ran them as their own shops.

This Mark V is interesting but I don't think it's worth very much. If it were a wood-paneled Bentley Mark VI, then yeah, maybe. But Jaguar was strictly middle-class fare back then and Bentley was upper crust.

Once the far more modern Jaguar XX 120 came out, the Mark V just fell into obscurity, where it pretty much remains.

omarman

Looks like somebody must have loved it and it really fits the "obscure" category. One of a kind custom coachwork from another era. But then the market says (again) "rare doesn't always mean valuable." Oh well.

uplanderguy

Some of my A-C-D pics here:

https://www.facebook.com/bill.pressler

stickguy

looks like a cool place. But I doubt I will ever be in the neighborhood.

omarman

Great pics. Showroom looks deserted. Wonder if they ever have mannequins dressed in Gatsby costumes.

fintail

That old showroom display is pretty cool. That was a time when numerous American cars were really the global prestige leaders,

The interior somewhat reminds me of the WI Simonson dealership in Santa Barbara. A MB dealer for a long time (my fintail has history there), it was originally a Packard dealer. It has been restored to a fairly original appearance:



I think you can see one of the doorways in this pic, in the modern image:

berri

Looking at your pictures Up, you are going to love Gilmore when you get to it!

uplanderguy

I've seen pics of the Simonson dealership from Packard days, but never in recent days. Thanks for posting.

Although they were supposedly trouble-prone, I love the '36-37 Cord 810 and 812 models. Front-wheel drive and retractable headlights, in the mid-thirties.

Gordon Buehrig, their designer, lived until 1990. E.L. Cord lived until 1974. Buehrig was also responsible for the '51 Ford Victoria hardtop, and his personal one was on display at the NATMUS behind the A-C-D.

We got to the A-C-D at 9 a.m. on Sunday morning, which probably contributed to the empty look, but on the other hand, I think fewer and fewer folks give a damn about old cars, sadly. Too busy staring into their phones.

They did have twenties and thirties music piped into the showroom. All I could think of was the ending of the movie "The Shining", when they have music like that playing and they zero in on the old pic of the New Year's Eve party at "the Overlook Hotel" and close in and Jack Nicholson is in the pic, LOL.

Fin, in one room they had maybe eight or ten non-ACD cars on display, that were owned by a contributor to the museum--thirties Packards and Chryslers mostly, but also a red gullwing Benz. Parked in a way that it couldn't be photographed in profile though. The Studebaker Avanti they had, beautiful authentic car, was in a display on Indiana-built cars and was displayed near an early thirties Studebaker President. There were multiple makes built in Indiana over the years, but they said Studebaker outproduced the others combined, which makes sense as they were in business much-longer than any of the others.

One '31 Duesenberg on display sold new for $16,500!

They also had a small display on John Dillinger, "Hoosier Hoodlum". He had robbed a bank in Auburn.

Cool to see the engineering and executive offices upstairs, relatively unchanged.

omarman

They did have twenties and thirties music piped into the showroom. All I could think of was the ending of the movie "The Shining", when they have music like that playing and they zero in on the old pic of the New Year's Eve party at "the Overlook Hotel" and close in and Jack Nicholson is in the pic, LOL.

Now that's funny! "Heeere's Gordon!"

You mentioned that Buehrig passed in 1990 at 85 y/o. Amazing that he was only about 25 when hired by Duesenberg. I read that he was buried in Auburn.


This pic is from the Nethercutt Collection in Sylmar, California.

uplanderguy

They had a Duesy at Auburn with the tapered B-pillar like the pic above, which we discussed here not too long ago on the '77-79 Cadillac Fleetwood Broughams. I do think Caddy cribbed it from Duesy.

fintail

I never made the connection between that style Duesy and the Fleetwood, I wonder if it is indeed a discreet homage to the old car. I have seen tapered B-pillars, but none come to mind like that.

ab348

I was watching Chasing Classic Cars last night, the episode where they get FDR's '32 Packard Twin Six running again. In the background of the F40 Motors shop where they were working on it was a car in need of restoration with what looked like a similar tapered B-pillar design. Maybe it was a Dusey, I wasn't really paying attention.

roadburner

When my dad was in high school in the late '30s his best friend's father ran a garage and took a Duesenberg Model J in as payment for a debt. It was a dual cowl Torpedo and that was the car my dad and his friend rode around in during their teen years.

uplanderguy

The "Model J" and "Model SJ" names Pontiac used on Grand Prix models starting in '69 were cribbed from Duesenberg too.

Mr_Shiftright

As well as the expression "That's a real doozy".

uplanderguy

When you pull out of A-C-D's parking lot, a sign says "It's a Duesy! Please come back soon!".

Mr_Shiftright

Awwww....

explorerx4

I'm going to go out on a limb and just go from memory.
Fiat used to build cars in Poughkeepsie NY.
They sold the tooling to what became Duesenberg.

texases

Yep:
https://books.google.com/books?id=nWg-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA333&lpg=PA333&dq=duesenberg+fiat&source=bl&ots=cWR1O5wpZR&sig=P1d5dUWn2G5p0BocEP2twohfvpM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6wr69ybXZAhUNTKwKHVw7CAwQ6AEITDAL#v=onepage&q=duesenberg fiat&f=false

Mr_Shiftright

You have to really stand next to a Duesenberg to understand how large this car is.

Mr_Shiftright

This is Robert Montgomery -- 6 ft 1 in. Another tall boy car.

fintail

1933 Cadillac V16. The car survived:

uplanderguy

Too lazy to check, but I'm pretty sure he was Elizabeth Montgomery's father. I always thought she was a beautiful woman, and that "I Dream of Jeannie" was a cheap knock-off of "Bewitched", LOL. When I was a kid, all those Chevy commercials on "Bewitched" helped too.

uplanderguy

In the shop at the NATMUS, they had a very clean, very solid '65 Studebaker Commander Wagonaire with the sliding top and what I think are the very nice-looking correct full wheelcovers on top of the correct off-white wheels. Light blue metallic (Laguna Blue). Nice clean original low-line Commander interior. It had the factory 194 Chevy six with 3-speed. The sliders had an X-member in the middle of the frame, so I bet that thing is achingly slow. They were prepping the car for sale. '65's were all built in Canada although headquarters remained in South Bend.