I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

fintail

Funny, I don't recall looking at the rear wheels on the red truck, can't see in the pic. It has 60 plates, but I suppose they could be a year off, I suspect the "year of manufacture" rule gives leeway as stickers were being used by then. The 56 seemed kind of tall, that with the winch made me think 4x4, but I didn't see any badging to that effect (if that was even a thing).

The 57-60 models make me think of the bleak late 70s teen angst-themed drama "Foxes", where a young Jodie Foster drives one.

fintail

On the road this morning - later Civic "wagovan" with "real time 4WD" (as opposed to fake time), a similar era Corolla wagon that I think was just FWD, and a maybe 78-79 El Camino with a hood scoop and front spoiler, probably quite the thing around 1985.

uplanderguy

The Studebaker Museum had a temporary display on pickup trucks and had a pale turquoise '58 Chevy Cameo Carrier on its turntable in the 'showroom window' when I was out there a few weeks back. It was beautiful, but even though I grew up Chevy, I never thought there was much to talk about styling with, in the '55 1/2-'59 styling, and even less with the '60-66 styling. I did like the '67 styling as soon as it came out.

andre1969

Got a call from the mechanic who has my '57 DeSoto today. Starts off with "Question. Your spare tire. Do you have it, or do we have it?" Umm...not exactly confidence-inspiring!

fintail

So who has the spare? Much funnier if they do

andre1969

They have it, somewhere. The trunk would have been emptied when they repaired the floor and rebuilt the quarter panels, as well as the inner drop-pieces (or whatever they're called).

I guess it could be worse. I can remember, about 15 years ago, when my uncle hit a deer with his Corolla and it had to go back to the dealer for their body shop to handle it, they lost the whole car! Turned out, it got sent out to another dealer to do the work, but there was some lack of communication, and they couldn't find the car for a day or so.

stickguy

of all the things to lose, spare is probably one of the easiest to replace if need be. Would be worse to lose your transmission or seats!

andre1969

Yeah, one thing that's stayed constant, over the years, is that bolt pattern. My DeSoto uses the 5-on-4.5" bolt pattern, which was used for decades. If I was concerned about trunk space or saving weight, the compact spare out of my '79 5th Avenue would actually fit it. Interestingly, even my FWD Dodge Intrepid used the same pattern, although by that time they called it 5-on-114.3cm.

Even the current Charger/300 use something close...5-on-115, which comes out to about 4.52". Might not be close enough to try it though. I remember back in my pizza delivery days, one of the drivers had a mid-90's Civic that he put Fox-body Mustang rims on. Apparently, they were just close enough that he got the rims on, but it wasn't long before he lost a wheel while driving...

fintail

How are the tires on the DeSoto, replaced yet? They'll find the wheel eventually. Maybe.

I wonder how many makers have long-lived bolt patterns. I know wheels from 1980s MBs will fit on the fintail.

andre1969

The DeSoto was supposed to get modern radials with wide whitewalls, but I can't remember if he got them on yet. It's been awhile since I've actually seen the car.

On the subject of bolt patterns, I wonder if there's really any advantage to having several different ones? For instance, for the longest time GM would use a 5-on-4.75 for their RWD compacts, midsized cars, and most full-sized Chevies. And a 5-on-5 for full-sized BOP/Cadillacs, as well as pickup trucks. When they downsized the big cars in 1977, I believe all B-body coupes and sedans used the 4.75, but wagons, and the C-body, used the 5".

I think Chrysler used the 4.5" for just about everything for ages, although in some years Imperial limos used a 5.5", and I think the '57-66 Imperials might have used a 5.5" as well. The two Dodge Darts I had used a 4" bolt pattern, but I think the disc-brake models in the 70's started using the 4.5" as well.

I could understand having a wider bolt pattern for a bigger, heavier car. But, in GM's case, does 1/4" really make that much difference?

ab348

At least back then a pair of bolt patterns would cover most GM cars. Not so today. They have a bunch of different wheel bolt/center hub designs that make it very challenging. I think 2000-up Cadillacs alone have 4 or 5 different ones, so forget about putting those CTS wheels on your ATS, etc.

kyfdx

Followed a car that I’m not sure I knew existed, today.

Pontiac G3.

Maybe a Chevy Aveo clone?

Looked brand new.

texases

Yep, Aveo clone.

Mr_Shiftright

Spotted but only in a recent Hot Rod article:

This one does the standing mile @ 162 mph.

ab348

The municipal government here has an archive, not surprising since the city is almost 270 years old. Recently they have gotten industrious, digitizing lots of old photos and documents in the archive and making them available. For the photos they have a Flickr site:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/halifaxarchives/

It is an excellent way to while away the hours. Here is one I like of an area that shortly after this photo was taken in 1967 was razed for urban renewal. The area is now covered by a large megaproject built around 1970 that is mostly offices and apartments - it had a much larger retail component originally but a lot of that has gone away in the last 10-15 years.



These 3 are almost a panorama of the local Ford dealer in their original location in a downtown gas station. A year or two after these were taken they relocated to a suburban location with a new steel building showroom and service dept on a large lot. About 4 years ago they relocated again to an even larger facility. But in 1967 this was where you bought your Ford:

ab348

Another set, this from 1964 of the corner of Spring Garden Rd and Queen St in downtown Halifax receiving a set of traffic lights. The cars in traffic are interesting as is the man in the trenchcoat who must have been a municipal manager of some sort.






Is that a Packard just in the left edge of the frame in pic #2?

stickguy

Looks like one.

I love old pictures like this.

fintail

Cool stuff. I want to say the car at very far left is a Lincoln.

I notice several British cars, not surprising for far eastern Canada, I suppose.

ab348 said:

Another set, this from 1964 of the corner of Spring Garden Rd and Queen St in downtown Halifax receiving a set of traffic lights. The cars in traffic are interesting as is the man in the trenchcoat who must have been a municipal manager of some sort.

Is that a Packard just in the left edge of the frame in pic #2?

ab348

fintail said:

Cool stuff. I want to say the car at very far left is a Lincoln.

I notice several British cars, not surprising for far eastern Canada, I suppose.

British cars were popular here in the 1960s especially. Lots of English Fords, Vauxhalls from GM, and BMC products.

Looking at the array of 1960s photos of the downtown makes me regret the strategy the gov here took. Downtown buildings were pretty much worn out at the end of WWII because the population here doubled in those years and the structures paid a price. But I look at some of the old stone and other buildings with lots of architectural detail and wish the city hadn't taken a scorched-earth strategy with the downtown. Some selective redevelopment combined with restoration/reuse would have made our downtown far more interesting today.

fintail

In the first pic, I suspect the tiny roadster at left is British. I also spot a Volvo 122 (perhaps Canadian) and a Fiat 600. At the Ford dealer, I see a 105E Anglia, and what looks like a Cortina wagon. In the next pic, I see a Vauxhall, and in the final pic, a BMC Farina parked at right.

I think that redevelopment happened in many places then, it was a fad here too. To be fair, the old buildings were often neglected, and would have need an entire gutting, with who knows what kind of structural work - maybe cheaper to replace than renovate. At the same time, there was a modern movement, and old styles didn't have appeal. MAny residential houses were also either razed or stripped of their character. Unfortunately, a lot of the modern replacement buildings of the era, especially into the 70s, haven't exactly aged well themselves.

ab348 said:

British cars were popular here in the 1960s especially. Lots of English Fords, Vauxhalls from GM, and BMC products.

Looking at the array of 1960s photos of the downtown makes me regret the strategy the gov here took. Downtown buildings were pretty much worn out at the end of WWII because the population here doubled in those years and the structures paid a price. But I look at some of the old stone and other buildings with lots of architectural detail and wish the city hadn't taken a scorched-earth strategy with the downtown. Some selective redevelopment combined with restoration/reuse would have made our downtown far more interesting today.

berri

What makes these shots cool to me is not just the cars, but the period street scenes. Thanks

fintail

A couple of later model rarities on the road today: RAV4 EV and a final run Saturn Vue hybrid.

laurasdada

Last evening, I followed what appeared to be a beautifully restored Series 1 4.2 Jaguar E-type convertible, gun metal gray. It looked so small from my drivers seat high atop Mt. XF! But, timeless.

andre1969

How's this for somewhat obscure? A 1970 Dodge Polara convertible.

I can't find exact production figures, but by this time I'd imagine less than 1000 of them were produced?

Oh, and here's a teaser of something else...

ab348

I was a fan of fuselage-body Mopars and the '70 Polara was the last year for a full-size convertible (along with the Fury and Newport/300). I think there were more than 1000 built but not many. They were not well-made cars unfortunately and interiors in particular deteriorate quickly. It is very difficult to find an original still in nice condition and NOS or even good used bits are very hard to find. A shame, because the '70 Polara is a nice-looking design.

andre1969

This particular Polara had been in storage in a barn, for years, and only has something like 30,000 miles on it. It's also a pretty low-end car, with a 318-2bbl, no a/c, basic interior, etc.

I thought the Polara/Monaco was pretty good looking, and especially like the '69. Dodge did a good job, I think, of making them look less chunky than the Plymouth and Chrysler counterparts. I think the wide-open rear wheel wells helped a lot.

Mr_Shiftright

866 of the 1970 Coronet 500 convertible with all the engine/transmission variations. Pretty rare by American standards. The R/T version of this car with either the 440 or the ultra-rare 426, has far fewer numbers.

omarman

ok the Polara is pretty cool but is that your DeSoto? At the shop? Home again?

xwesx

Andre! That's fantastic! Let's see a photo of that beautiful old beast in YOUR garage!

ab348

I stand corrected on 1970 Polara convertible production. Two different sources: one says production of 842, the other says 696 were built.

andre1969

omarman said:

ok the Polara is pretty cool but is that your DeSoto? At the shop? Home again?

Yep, that's it. Still at the shop, but it's getting close. That wasn't the best photo, for the interior...I was originally trying to make a video of me starting the thing up, but had it set for photo. Anyway, just one quick pump of the gas pedal, a turn of the key, and I swear it fired up quicker than a modern car does!

I had asked the mechanic if they'd had it running recently and that's why it started so easily and he said no, it hadn't been started in about two days.

xwesx

andre1969 said:

omarman said:

ok the Polara is pretty cool but is that your DeSoto? At the shop? Home again?

Yep, that's it. Still at the shop, but it's getting close. That wasn't the best photo, for the interior...I was originally trying to make a video of me starting the thing up, but had it set for photo. Anyway, just one quick pump of the gas pedal, a turn of the key, and I swear it fired up quicker than a modern car does!

I had asked the mechanic if they'd had it running recently and that's why it started so easily and he said no, it hadn't been started in about two days.

Hey, for a car that old, two days is incredibly recent!

berri

I always like seeing 50's - 70's Mopar pictures. I grew up in the Chicago area where it was always GM v. Ford, but I was a Mopar fan in those days. I am also a fan of both Virgil Exner and Elwood Engel as automotive stylists and designers. (and yeah, I know Engel did a lot of Fomoco design work before taking over at Chrysler)

PF_Flyer

Passed a DeLorean coming home from dinner tonight. It's that time of year when people take their babies out for a ride here

fintail

Saw a 70s Scout today - last night saw a 60s one on the road with no top (and a little rain about to arrive). That makes 4 in the past few weeks, all on the road.

stickguy

before the T storms moved in, a nice looking C2 convertible. Red, with the top down. Could not tell year since I saw a bit away driving.

and 2 different times, once with the top up then down, a guy bopping around in an old school VW powered dune buggy. man that thing was short and low!

and for sale on the side of the road, an original (as in ratty) early 70s F100 PU. I kinda liked it!

laurasdada

Greenwich Concourse d' Elegance: Packards, DeSotos, Tucker, Cunninghams, Nash, AMC, Studebakers, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Cadillac.... Karma Revero (still style over practicality).

stickguy

not a classic, but an early Tempo driving around. Just looked odd out on the road.

berri

I always thought the 2dr Tempo looked like one of those high back tennis shoes I wore for gym in high school - maybe should have called it a Converse Coupe

fintail

Tempo coupes do have somewhat odd proportions (odd relationship between greenhouse size and wheelbase, maybe), looked much better as a sedan.

berri

Of course, I guess I could say that early Audi TT's looked a tennis shoe with a crushed heel (and others could tell me BS)

berri

I agree on the tempo sedan, I think the Thunderbirds of that era probably carried that Ford design trend best as a coupe.

andre1969

My stepdad...the one who went from a '69 Chevelle SS396 to an '81 Escort by the time he met my Mom, ended up replacing the Escort with an '84 Tempo coupe. I think it was the GL trim level. I remember it was white with a gray contrast at the bottom, and I think it at least had alloy wheels. I hated that car, to be honest. I drove it, once, and it was slow and sloppy-handling. The 1980 Malibu I had gotten from my Mom felt like a musclecar in comparison. But, it was fairly reliable. I do remember some issues when it was newer, but they were relatively minor. By 1991 it had about 160,000 miles on it, and they replaced it with a new Stanza, that started crapping out around the 90K mark.

andre1969

Oh, I just looked it up...the Tempo is rated at the same interior volume by the EPA, regardless of whether it's the 2- or 4-door. 90 cubic feet of passenger volume, 13 cubic feet of trunk. So, that might imply that the 2-door is really a sedan, rather than a coupe. That might explain why the 2-door looks awkward. Usually a 2-door, if a coupe, is a bit more rakish and, well, a bit more close-coupled (hence the name "coupe") than the sedan, and sacrifices interior room for style.

roadburner

My mom had a Topaz coupe. As Andre noted, a miserable slug.

fintail

That's a good way to look at it - a Tempo "coupe" is really a two door sedan. I think GLs often had wheels, yeah. As I am sure I have droned on about in the past, we had an 85 Tempo in the family back in the day, and I studied the minutiae of these cars. Ours was a high option GLX that stayed in the family until 1999, and ~190K miles. Never had a real mechanical issue, but the engine computer system had hiccups past 130K or so. It was eventually driven by a few kids (including myself) and not exactly babied.

berri

What I mostly remember from Tempo rental cars was those awful automatic seatbelt Rube Goldberg contraptions.

fintail

I think the decapitation seatbelts were 1989-90+. There was actually a short run of airbag option Tempo in 1985 (at least available per old literature), and are sometimes found on later models (but I have never seen one in person). I have seen Tempo diesels and AWD models though, and the now somewhat sought after (for a Tempo) V6 model.

omarman

My sister traded in a Tempo AWD ('87 ish) for a new Grand Am ('91?). I recall the Grand Am was a 4 door and I think the AWD Tempo was a 2 door. I never drove either of those ugly litter box cars but my sister really thought the Grand Am was a much better car. Well, considering what she was comparing it to....

ab348

I wonder what the reaction of Ford dealers and sales personnel was when the Tempo was introduced. I always found it an extremely unattractive design and after having driven one for a short distance the performance was atrocious. Yet they still seemed to sell (at least locally) in good numbers. A mystery to me.