I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

A 1966 Plymouth VIP two-door hardtop--silver exterior, maroon knit or nylon interior. Unfortunately, it was riding on white-lettered tires against full wheelcovers.

Also saw a nice '74 Grand Prix SJ. Had the original window sticker. The SJ package included upgraded "BW" tires. This car had white letters too (yuck).

Mmkay, this got me thinking. My '76 Grand LeMans is on raised white letter tires. That's what it had on it when I bought it. Well, time also flies by when you're having fun, I guess, so suddenly here it is, 13 years later. The tires actually still look good, but they're getting old enough that I don't want to take a chance.

Here's a couple pics of it, taken a few years ago...




Anyway, maybe it's time to take an informal poll. When it comes to new tires, do y'all think I should go with whitewalls, blackwalls, or raised white letters? Personally, I've gotten so used to seeing it with the raised white letters that it doesn't bother me. They sort of go with the Rally 2 wheels. And, I always thought the LeMans sort of bucked the trend in those days, trying for a sportier look, whereas other intermediates were putting more focus on the pretentious, upscale, wanna-be luxury look. Yeah, it still has opera windows, a landau roof, and some over-styling excesses, so it really can't totally escape the fetishes of the era. I've often wondered if that's one reason it was a poor seller, because it didn't look as "upscale" (i.e., no extra-tall formal grille and so forth). Then again, the Grand Prix wasn't that much more expensive, once the cars were comparably equipped, and its name still had a lot of marketing magic to it, so I imagine a lot of buyers simply paid a few more bucks for one of those.

Anyway, my only real aversion to whitewalls at this point, is that they're not as easy to find, and more expensive. But, it's not like the extra cost would bankrupt me. The blackwalls might seem kind of plain, although I guess I could get used to them. And raised white letters, I could take them or leave them I guess...as I said, I got used to it. Besides, the car's not truly "correct", anyway. That's a '77 grille it's sporting, and I don't think that particular paint color was offered that year (it was originally Firethorn).

kyfdx

I like the raised white letters. When I bought my first new car in '77, that was the look you wanted.

Alternatively, blackwalls

stickguy

I like the letters too. That is the way I would have wanted it to look, back in the day!

omarman

In high school I went to Mr. Tire in Lancaster for a set of new raised white letter tires for my Mustang. Soon I got tired of that look and returned to Mr Tire to ask them to reverse the tires on the rims to the black side. Confused looks from the shop guys but they complied. Just before graduation I returned to have them change it back. So this time they charged me for remounting.

Even during the 70s it was common to go back and forth on the RWL tire issue. Some cars can wear whitewalls and look classic.
So my vote is definitely...new tires.

berri

When did the redline tires come out? I seem to remember them on latter 70's Firebird's and GTO's, but may be off on the timeline.

Mr_Shiftright

kyfdx said:

I like the raised white letters. When I bought my first new car in '77, that was the look you wanted.

Alternatively, blackwalls

Me, too. They are very "period" and they work with the car.

fintail

I'll also chime in for raised white letters. They may not be from the factory, but they are period correct and were kind of cool back in the day. On something like that Pontiac, any of the 3 can work.

I think redlines were maybe around 1965?

Mr_Shiftright

I also like the dog-dish/blackwall look, especially if the car is a big block.

roadburner

My Wrangler wears RWL BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO tires.

sda

Dad had this as a company car in 1975 when we lived near Paris.  His was dark blue with dark blue interior.  It was a nice, but troublesome car, a shop queen.  Were these inported to Canada?  They didn't make it to the US.

uplanderguy

The LeMans wears white-letters better than a Grand Prix SJ I think.

I like factory-look, but that's just me. I think blackwalls would look dour on your car.

White letters against full wheelcovers on that VIP looked a bit 'hooptie' I think.

fintail

I don't believe the 30 was sold in Canada, either.

sda said:

Dad had this as a company car in 1975 when we lived near Paris.  His was dark blue with dark blue interior.  It was a nice, but troublesome car, a shop queen.  Were these inported to Canada?  They didn't make it to the US.

uplanderguy

I like that red LeMans in the photo above. Looks like a period shot.

I'm in the minority, but I wish GM would've stuck with the big triangular quarter windows longer on those bodies.

tjc78

RWL look good on the Pontiac and should be easier to find a decent tire. I wouldn’t go black wall on that car.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I like that red LeMans in the photo above. Looks like a period shot.

I'm in the minority, but I wish GM would've stuck with the big triangular quarter windows longer on those bodies.

When did GM finally ditch the large triangular windows on the Chevelle? I thought they had them all the way through the end, but then I just pulled up the sales brochure, and noticed they show a pic of one for '76, but not '77. I know the LeMans dropped them after 1975. The cheap versions of the Cutlass and Century carried them through '77.

I prefer the larger windows, but I think they look better on some of the cars than others. For instance, with the '76-77 Cutlass S/Century, something about the styling makes them look too stubby in the back. I think it's a combination of the large window, plus the way the lower sheetmetal is squared off, and then the slope of the back of the car. At certain angles I look at these, and suddenly I can see why GM thought those '78 Aerobacks seemed like a good idea. The '76-77's were already pretty close to "fastback", anyway.

The LeMans might have been to still pull off those larger windows for '76-77, though. While it got squared off up front, and to a lesser degree in back (unless that was just a visual trick carried out with the taillights/trim), it was still curvy enough overall, that those larger windows might have still worked.

Also, in looking at the brochures, I had forgotten that Chevy actually held onto round headlights on the base Malibu right up through the end, in '77! At least, the sales brochure shows a brownish-copper '77 sedan with round lights. I imagine that must have looked horribly outdated on the showroom floor, especially next to something like an Impala or Caprice.

omarman

I'm also a fan of the whitewall tire especially on some 70's Detroit iron that seem to wear it well.

In the 70's I liked the RWL tires on pony cars until I read a thoughtful rant against "paying more money for a rolling billboard for some tire company...." in the pages of Popular Hot Rodding. Sort of like the more recent argument about dealers who stick their name directly on every car they sell instead of just the license plate brackets.

This topic also reminded me of the first time I saw raised outline white letter tires around '78 or so.

benjaminh

This morning I saw what I believe was a 1964 Mercury convertible in a neighborhood near where we live. Looked rather like this one, but in white....

uplanderguy

Comet Caliente; nice-looking car.

andre, Buick and Olds stuck with the triangular windows, as you said, right up to '77. I could like a '76 or '77 Century coupe with the big windows, road wheels and wheel opening moldings. I don't know if I've ever seen a real one though.

For cars that were snug in the back seat, like those Colonnade coupes, those windows opened it up a bit, and added great visibility. My friend had a '73 Chevelle SS and I'd ridden in the back numerous times.

'76 was the last year Chevy offered that window. The base Malibu had round headlights right through '77. I often wished I could've ordered a '76 Malibu Classic with the big windows and with hood-ornament delete. I often read that Stude would do stuff like that in orders, but my bet is that Chevy would've told me to 'get lost', LOL. The '74-77 Malibu was about equivalent trim-wise to the '73 Chevelle Deluxe, which was pretty sad.

sda

As most of you know I tend to prefer Olds. However for the intermediates from '73-77 the Olds Cutlass had one of the least attractive dash boards. I thought the Pontiac Grand Am which shared the Grand Prix dash was the best. The Monte Carlo with full gauges was nice as was the Buick Regal or higher trim LeMans.

uplanderguy

The Pontiac Grand Prix/Grand Am/GrandLeMans/CanAm had the best instrument panel of the '70's IMHO.

sda

andre1969 said:

uplanderguy said:

A 1966 Plymouth VIP two-door hardtop--silver exterior, maroon knit or nylon interior. Unfortunately, it was riding on white-lettered tires against full wheelcovers.

Also saw a nice '74 Grand Prix SJ. Had the original window sticker. The SJ package included upgraded "BW" tires. This car had white letters too (yuck).

Mmkay, this got me thinking. My '76 Grand LeMans is on raised white letter tires. That's what it had on it when I bought it. Well, time also flies by when you're having fun, I guess, so suddenly here it is, 13 years later. The tires actually still look good, but they're getting old enough that I don't want to take a chance.

Here's a couple pics of it, taken a few years ago...




Anyway, maybe it's time to take an informal poll. When it comes to new tires, do y'all think I should go with whitewalls, blackwalls, or raised white letters? Personally, I've gotten so used to seeing it with the raised white letters that it doesn't bother me. They sort of go with the Rally 2 wheels. And, I always thought the LeMans sort of bucked the trend in those days, trying for a sportier look, whereas other intermediates were putting more focus on the pretentious, upscale, wanna-be luxury look. Yeah, it still has opera windows, a landau roof, and some over-styling excesses, so it really can't totally escape the fetishes of the era. I've often wondered if that's one reason it was a poor seller, because it didn't look as "upscale" (i.e., no extra-tall formal grille and so forth). Then again, the Grand Prix wasn't that much more expensive, once the cars were comparably equipped, and its name still had a lot of marketing magic to it, so I imagine a lot of buyers simply paid a few more bucks for one of those.

Anyway, my only real aversion to whitewalls at this point, is that they're not as easy to find, and more expensive. But, it's not like the extra cost would bankrupt me. The blackwalls might seem kind of plain, although I guess I could get used to them. And raised white letters, I could take them or leave them I guess...as I said, I got used to it. Besides, the car's not truly "correct", anyway. That's a '77 grille it's sporting, and I don't think that particular paint color was offered that year (it was originally Firethorn).

Andre, is your Pontiac a Luxury LeMans?

andre1969

sda said:

Andre, is your Pontiac a Luxury LeMans?

It's a Grand LeMans. Basically, what took over for the luxury LeMans starting in 1975, I believe? I think the Luxury LeMans used the regular LeMans dash, but the Grand used the Grand Prix/Grand Am dash. I think the door panels were a bit ritzier, too. I remember someone once telling me that if my Grand LeMans ever got totaled, to hang onto the interior pieces, because a lot of it was the same stuff that went into a Grand Am. Maybe the upper vinyl part of the door panels, perhaps? It has the pull straps like a Grand Am, but I tell people don't use them, because of their age...I just don't trust them!

uplanderguy

Funny you mention about not wanting people to use door pull straps. I'd seen so many Monte Carlos with those straps dangling by one attachment, I always closed the door in my two, with the armrest.

sda

uplanderguy said:

Funny you mention about not wanting people to use door pull straps. I'd seen so many Monte Carlos with those straps dangling by one attachment, I always closed the door in my two, with the armrest.

I remember having to pry the finish cover off and tighten the straps about twice a year in mom's 76 Cutlass. If you catch it early, when it first shows signs of getting loose, it tightens back without issue.

imidazol97

@andre1969

The RWL looks typical on that car with those wheels so if that's what you, stick with it.
I like the whitewalls as well.
Blackwalls last.

berri

Nice lines on the Lemans. The dark red almost borders on maroon. I generally prefer the bit more upright and formal Cutlass Supreme or Buick roofline on the 76 GM upper level Intermediates, but with those trunk lines I think the bit more sloping roofline looks better.

Is that model more posh inside or more sport? If the latter, I'd go with the lettered tires; if the former, thin whitewalls. Blackwalls wouldn't look bad, but IIRC correctly, in that era they were still often associated with base models. But the bottom line is that it is your car, so just do what you prefer and don't worry about it. It is going to look sharp regardless I think.

stickguy

stopped at an open house today. Best feature? When I opened the door to the garage to scope it out, there was a Viper coupe in there. The hardtop with a giant wing. I was good though and did not go in to scope it out in person!

iluvmysephia1

Ya should have, stick!

PF_Flyer

Spotted this in the Sam's Club parking lot. Hadn't seen a Thing in a while. The Fred Flintstone surfing graphic made me chuckle. My wife claims she had never seen a Thing before. She just means she never noticed one before.

andre1969

berri said:

Nice lines on the Lemans. The dark red almost borders on maroon. I generally prefer the bit more upright and formal Cutlass Supreme or Buick roofline on the 76 GM upper level Intermediates, but with those trunk lines I think the bit more sloping roofline looks better.

Is that model more posh inside or more sport? If the latter, I'd go with the lettered tires; if the former, thin whitewalls. Blackwalls wouldn't look bad, but IIRC correctly, in that era they were still often associated with base models. But the bottom line is that it is your car, so just do what you prefer and don't worry about it. It is going to look sharp regardless I think.

I think that's the magic of GM styling in those days...the roofline usually matched the rest of the car. I don't think that formal roofline would have worked well on my LeMans, or a Chevelle, for example, but at the same time, I don't think my LeMans's roofline would work that well on a Grand Prix or Monte Carlo.

Now that I think about it, did the '73-77 Century ever offer the faster roof, but with opera windows? i.e. the roof that my LeMans has? I've seen them with the more formal Regal/Cutlass Supreme/Grand Prix style roof, and I've seen them with the fast roof and large windows, but not the fast roof/opera window look.

As for my Grand LeMans, I think its interior tries to split the difference between posh and sport. I guess about the best way to describe it would be kind of like a Grand Am, if it had a bench seat and column shift. Here's an old picture of the interior...

Mr_Shiftright

PF_Flyer said:

Spotted this in the Sam's Club parking lot. Hadn't seen a Thing in a while. The Fred Flintstone surfing graphic made me chuckle. My wife claims she had never seen a Thing before. She just means she never noticed one before.

Very cool vehicle. I wouldn't mind having one. Total death trap.

From the guys who brought you World War II:

andre1969

Totally different vehicle, but that just made me think of this: "Gotta hand it to the Germans!"

Mr_Shiftright

Not totally different--it's the parent of the child.

SPEAKING OF OLD VWs

iluvmysephia1

Ahh, yes, Shifty...makes me wonder about that white '67 VW Bug 4-speed selling for $3,000 the last time we lived here in this smallish New Mexico city.

fintail

Ha, I completely forgot about that one.

"Real Genius" was on TV yesterday, another Kilmer classic from the same year, and with some car content.

andre1969 said:

Totally different vehicle, but that just made me think of this: "Gotta hand it to the Germans!"

Michaell

fintail said:

Ha, I completely forgot about that one.

"Real Genius" was on TV yesterday, another Kilmer classic from the same year, and with some car content.

andre1969 said:

Totally different vehicle, but that just made me think of this: "Gotta hand it to the Germans!"

Yeah, a couple of French brands in that movie, IIRC

uplanderguy

Beautiful interior, although I always thought that instrument panel was designed with the integral console first. I know that was the fact of the '69-72 Grand Prix panel, which didn't even have a glovebox until the bench-seat model came out. It had a glovebox and the automatic trans quadrant was on top of the column, which was an afterthought for sure. Yours is down in the instruments, where it oughta be!

uplanderguy

To answer your question about the fastback rooves on Colonnades with opera windows--I remember many Centurys and Cutlass S models with that look--mostly in '76 and '77, in my memory, anyways.

andre1969

Would you have been able to get a 1973 Grand Prix, or Grand Am, with a bench seat? That's when that dashboard first came out, so it might have originally been designed with bucket seats and a console in mind. It didn't get more widespread use until the Grand LeMans started using it for '75, and that may have been when it got adapted to bench seat/column shift use?

As for the Century, I looked online, and finally found one of the fastback models with the opera window.


They don't seem that common...most Century coupes from that era seem to either be the Custom model, which uses the more formal roof from the Regal et al, or the large triangular window. Seems the same with the Cutlass. In google image searches at least, the fast roof with the opera window seems a bit uncommon.

ab348

andre1969 said:

Would you have been able to get a 1973 Grand Prix, or Grand Am, with a bench seat?

This page from a '73 brochure says you have a choice of buckets or notchback bench seat:

http://www.oldcarbrochures.org/index.php/NA/Pontiac/1973-Pontiac/1973-Pontiac-Grand-Prix-Brochure/1973-Pontiac-Grand-Prix-04

Unfortunately it isn't pictured. I've never seen one. Oddly, the Grand Am only came with buckets, even as a 4-door, in '73.

Talking of rear-quarter windows on these Colonnade cars, don't forget the one on the LeMans Sport Coupe that was a cross between the opera window and the full triangular window:

http://www.oldcarbrochures.org/index.php/NA/Pontiac/1973-Pontiac/1973-Pontiac-LeMans-Sport-Coupe/1973-Pontiac-LeMans-Sport-Coupe-01

My '77 LeMans coupe had the opera window style on the fastback roof like the Century pictured above. Mine looked something like this:

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/TS05/Toronto-International-Spring-Classic-Car-Auction/lots/r077-1977-pontiac-lemans-sport-coupe/209609

PF_Flyer

Mr_Shiftright said:

Not totally different--it's the parent of the child.

SPEAKING OF OLD VWs

Tried to walk the wife through to jog her memory... Things showed up after these VW-based do-dads

texases

What are those green tanks? Look like oxygen welding tanks..heavy!

stickguy

early air bags?

omarman

fuel tanks?

explorerx4

That one soldier in the back has a look on his face like, 'I think I see a P-51'.

Mr_Shiftright

omarman said:

fuel tanks?

JATO I think.

bhill2

Have to question using one of them as a front bumper.

fintail

On the road today, shiny black 94-96 Impala SS and a pre-87 Saab 900.

explorerx4

Ct has 'Early American' plates and it is branded as a Dodge, but kind of stretching the facts.
https://nwct.craigslist.org/cto/d/early-american-vehicle-for/6616352539.html

A mystery solved.
Saw an SUV shaped vehicle a few days ago, didn't recognize it or really get a good look at it.
Must have seen the same one today. A Saab 9-4x.

Mr_Shiftright

explorerx4 said:

Ct has 'Early American' plates and it is branded as a Dodge, but kind of stretching the facts.
https://nwct.craigslist.org/cto/d/early-american-vehicle-for/6616352539.html



A mystery solved.
Saw an SUV shaped vehicle a few days ago, didn't recognize it or really get a good look at it.
Must have seen the same one today. A Saab 9-4x.

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The Colt is a Mitsubishi Galant underneath I think.