I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright

Usually 1915 is established as the last year of the "Brass Era" cars.

xwesx

texases said:

That is a remarkable collection! How long has it been open? I hope I didn't miss it during my stay in Anchorage ('83-'95).

I am pretty sure it opened after your stint. I don't recall exactly, but I think the museum itself opened around 2005. The owner and his primary restorer have worked on collections for far longer, it just wasn't something that was accessible to the public in this form before then.

Edit: Okay, then.... 2007!

berri

IIRC the original Comet had some issues due to being severely underpowered. Don't remember for sure if it was early engine failures or early transmission failures though. Kind of an odd looking compact. It was supposed to be an Edsel model originally I think. OTOH if you had one at a car show today it would probably spark some curiosity. I give it some credit for contrasting with the awfully conservative looks of the Falcon. I'm thinking the Comet looked a bit more substantial in comparison because it had slightly larger dimensions.

fintail

I could see this as an Edsel rear end:

imidazol97

I wonder if the Comets had the same rear end gearing as the Falcon. If a little heavier and a little high numerically gearing, the car would have been peppier. The Falcon was strictly to try to have a high gas mileage number for bragging rights. So the Comet may have been set up better for driving.

How do we get data from that long ago?

texases

No gearing on earth would make the 144 cid 6 with the two speed AT anything than a slug. 

stickguy

nothing that a nice 289 and a 4 speed wouldn't take care of.

andre1969

I remember the 27 second or so 0-60 time of a Comet being quoted in an issue of "Collectible Automobile" magazine when they did a spread on the early Comets a few years back.

Anyway, as for gearing, I dug around, and here's what I found. The 2-speed automatic had a first gear of 1.75:1 and second of 1.00:1, and a standard rear axle of 3.1:1. I found this at a site called www.automobile-catalog.com , and I don't know where they get their data from, so I don't know how accurate it is. They also estimate a Comet with the 144 and 2-speed automatic would do 0-60 in 20.5 seconds, using a mathematical calculation.

In my opinion, that axle ratio seems a bit tall, for the era. Just as a reference point, my '57 DeSoto Firedome uses a 3.91:1 with the 3-on-the-tree, which was "officially" standard, a 3.54:1 with the 2-speed Powerflite, and a 3.31:1 with the 3-speed Torqueflite, which is probably how just about every single one was actually equipped, out the door.

I'd think something with a small engine, like the Comet, would use a quicker ratio than a 3.10:1, especially with a 2-speed. But then again, maybe not? By 1960, buyers were a lot more economy-minded than they had been in 1957, and they were buying the new cheap compacts for fuel economy and cheap ownership costs, and not to take out on the drag strip.

FWIW, that www.automobile-catalog.com site estimates the 0-60 time of a '57 Firedome convertible with the 341-2bbl and Torqueflite at 10.1 seconds. I've seen old road tests that put it around 9.7, so sometimes their mathematical calculation is close.

As for a 1951 Chevy, I picked at random, a Styline Deluxe 2-door "Sport Coupe" (maybe that was the hardtop?). The 2-speed Powerglide had a 1.82:1 first gear, 1.00:1 Direct Drive, and a 3.55:1 axle. They estimate 0-60 in 20.2 seconds.

Mr_Shiftright

texases said:

No gearing on earth would make the 144 cid 6 with the two speed AT anything than a slug. 

The 144 had an advertised HP of 85--about the same as an MGA.

andre1969

Mr_Shiftright said:

texases said:

No gearing on earth would make the 144 cid 6 with the two speed AT anything than a slug. 

The 144 had an advertised HP of 85--about the same as an MGA.

What would that be in net hp? Maybe 60-65, if you're lucky? I know a/c was still a plaything for the rich in the early 60's, so did they even offer it in a Falcon or Comet? And, if so, I wonder if they made you get the larger engine?

bhill2

andre1969 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

texases said:

No gearing on earth would make the 144 cid 6 with the two speed AT anything than a slug. 

The 144 had an advertised HP of 85--about the same as an MGA.

What would that be in net hp? Maybe 60-65, if you're lucky? I know a/c was still a plaything for the rich in the early 60's, so did they even offer it in a Falcon or Comet? And, if so, I wonder if they made you get the larger engine?

In '60 the 144 was the only engine available. I doubt that a/c was available. Having put quite a few miles on one that had the Fordomatic two speed AT, having the a/c compressor kick in would be inconsistent with maintaining any speed that required high gear.

uplanderguy

andre, although just a few years later "Sport Coupe" in a Chevrolet designated a two-door hardtop, pre-'55 it referred to a close-coupled two-door coupe like this:

http://championautomotive.net/50chevysforsale/Sold/51_Chevrolet_Deluxe_Coupe_Black_For_Sale.html

The ad calls it a "Club Coupe" but short of checking the sales brochure, I am nearly certain this bodystyle is what Chevy themselves called the "Sport Coupe".

UPDATE: Here's a page from the '51 brochure calling that body style the "Sport Coupe":

http://paintref.com/cgi-bin/brochuredisplay.cgi?year=1951&manuf=GM&model=Chevrolet&smod=&page=5&scan=5

uplanderguy

Regarding that Comet--who would do taillights that way?

Somewhere I'd read that those are the '60 Edsel taillights turned sideways. Don't know how true that is, but it seems plausible.

andre1969

Oh yeah, that's right...in the early days, they called the hardtop "Bel Air"...almost forgot about that! And yeah, as far as I know, the '60 Comet did use Edsel taillights, just angled.

The Comet's taillight treatment is kinda weird, but then, back in those days, what wasn't? And it does sort of fit in with Mercury's styling trends at the time. The big cars had been doing a form of the angled fins and taillights from '57-59, and even the '60, while the taillights were housed vertically in swollen bumper protrusions, still had the angled fins.

fintail

Those lights are off-putting to me, quite weird, but at the same time quite modern and cool, with the lack of ornamentation and other frills.

ab348

This would make a cool project or drive-it-as-you-fix-it car for early Comet fans.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/mercury/comet/2132063.html?refer=blog

Mr_Shiftright

Ford 302 with a 4-speed or 5-speed is what it needs, along with brake and suspension upgrades; otherwise, leave it just like it is.

imidazol97

imidazol97 said:

I wonder if the Comets had the same rear end gearing as the Falcon. If a little heavier and a little high numerically gearing, the car would have been peppier. The Falcon was strictly to try to have a high gas mileage number for bragging rights. So the Comet may have been set up better for driving.

How do we get data from that long ago?

I used @andre1969 's source and found that for 1961 the rear axle rations were the same for a manual trans in both Falcon and Comet; same for auto in the two. No advantage for the Comet.

texases

ab348 said:

This would make a cool project or drive-it-as-you-fix-it car for early Comet fans.

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/mercury/comet/2132063.html?refer=blog

And it's got the smokin' 170 with a 3sp MT - a rocket!

ab348

The listing for the '62 wagon I posted above claims a 3.50:1 ratio paired with the 170 cid six, so it should be slightly less slow considering it has 3 on the tree.

texases

Great minds and all that....

Mr_Shiftright

That thing couldn't pull the skin off rice pudding.

ab348

And here I was thinking that a 250 c.i. Ford six would bolt right up...

Mr_Shiftright

A Ford 300 I-6, with Mazda M5OD transmission (bolts up) , and a turbo and headers would be interesting.

berri

Comet was heavier than the Falcon to boot. Hey, real roof rack you can use out of the box with no additional parts required. Fun to see wagons.

andre1969

I always thought it was interesting that Ford was able to stretch the tiny 144 CID engine all the way out to a 250 in later years. I guess that's an indication it was a fairly beefy block? Although, I think a lot of that may have come from stroking it rather than boring it, so I guess the 250 was a raised deck version?

texases

There were other changes (like 4 main bearings on the 144/170/early 200, 7 on the late 200/all 250). The 144 bxs was 3.5"x2.94", the 250 was 3.65"x3.91". But that engine line did have a long life, 1960-1984. Not much love for them on the performance side. I think they all had the intake manifold cast with the head, limiting hop-up options.

omarman

After stretching out that Thriftpower Six, Ford lopped off 2 cylinders to create the HSC 2.3 four cylinder for the Tempo/Topaz.

berri

"Thriftpower 6" - don't you love the old 50's and 60's advertising tags. I always get a kick out of the ads and copy from that era. We used to lie with class; now we just lie

fintail

They were honest at times too - you knew what was up with a "Scotsman"

Mr_Shiftright

"Because arm rests are for sissies"

andre1969

Even into the late 70's, wasn't there a strippo version of the Nova that jettisoned the armrests in the back seat, and just replaced it with a pull strap for the door? Or was that just the copcars I'm thinking of?

ab348

andre1969 said:

Even into the late 70's, wasn't there a strippo version of the Nova that jettisoned the armrests in the back seat, and just replaced it with a pull strap for the door? Or was that just the copcars I'm thinking of?

I know I drove one once exactly like that - not sure if it had front armrests either.

omarman

BAT featured a base 1977 Nova with the rear passenger door straps.

sda

omarman said:

BAT featured a base 1977 Nova with the rear passenger door straps.

It had carpeting, what luxury! I would have expected a rubber floor covering on such a base model.

andre1969

Funny thing is, the door panel itself, on that Nova, doesn't look that bad. Looks like it's at least full-vinyl, or at least that soft-touch padded stuff, rather than the cheap, hard "Body-by-Fisher-Price" plastics. Throw a decent armrest on there, and maybe make the trim around the door handle a bit classier, and it wouldn't take much to dress it up.

Now, that back seat is a different story. The shape of the seat cushions just looks seriously uncomfortable to me, especially with the short base cushion, and the way the backrest curves. Actually, that curve of the back cushion is something I tend to associate with more modern, downsized, space-efficient cars. That's one major way the auto makers were able to maintain or increase legroom measurements with shorter wheelbases...they simply pushed the back seat further between the wheel wells, which would cut into the corners like that.

I'm surprised the Nova would try a space efficiency trick like that, yet at the same time, remain so cramped. But, then again these cars shared a lot of their architecture with the Camaro, and as a result, were all hood. It's hard to base a 4-door car with a useable interior off of a platform like that, so maybe that forced GM to learn a few space-efficiency tricks a bit early on, to make up for it. And, I think to its advantage, the Nova had beautiful proportions, compared to other compacts of the time. I always thought it was a bit odd that it didn't sell better, but for a few years in there, the Granada was everybody's darling, and then the Aspen/Volare had a few good years, and by '78 it pressure was added not only from the Fairmont/Zephyr, but also GM's downsized intermediates which were similar in external dimensions, but roomier inside. And tended to be trimmed better inside, although to be fair, the LN/Concours, as well as the nicer versions of the Ventura/Phoenix, Omega, and Skylark were pretty nice, as well.

kyfdx

At my friend’s memorial service, today. One of his cars:

PF_Flyer

More from another box of photos. Friends of the family, Joe Kastner was a big time motorcycle enduro racer. You can look it up

fintail

Nice, BMC Farina, I will guess Austin Cambridge.

fintail

What make is it? I can't read the script.

kyfdx said:

At my friend’s memorial service, today. One of his cars:

kyfdx

fintail

Wow an Autocrat, that's a rare bird.

imidazol97

kyfdx said:

At my friend’s memorial service, today. One of his cars:

I saw that car in Newport maybe two years ago on Monmouth! What year, 1911?

Sorry the owner has passed away.

ab348

Sorry to hear your friend passed away.

That Autocrat is really something. Great name for a car too.

ab348

Here's an interesting/amusing film about a 1950 version of a SUV:

https://www.facebook.com/RoadandTrack/videos/10156325238116091/

I always found those odd but seeing it moving around like some sort of alien transportation device is kind of cool.

stickguy

why did some of that make me think I was watching Brokeback mountain?

fintail

I like how the wide whites got dirtier, and the one guy loading luggage while wearing a jacket and tie and smoking a pipe.

kyfdx

@imidazol97 I don’t know the year, but I’ll find out.

ab348

I thought the door window screens were genius!

omarman

If that Oldsmobile Autocrat belonged to David Noran it's listed as a .
1910 prototype