I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

ab348

andre1969 said:

I remember reading, awhile back, that a Buick Electra was the perfect car for an investment banker...not too conservative, not too flashy or risky. Supposedly, a Ninety-Eight meant you were too conservative, and wouldn't make your client enough money. A New Yorker or Imperial meant you were too willing to take risks, and might lose it all. A Cadillac meant you were making more money for yourself than your client...and showing off about it. And a Lincoln meant that you aspired to be the Cadillac guy, but weren't as good as fooling people into becoming your client. But, an Electra said you were trustworthy, successful, and a good risk.

The top trim Electras were just as posh inside as a Cadillac too, so you were only giving up the name/image and taking a different engine.

benjaminh

For their 1925 brochure, Buick featured on the second page a color painting titled "THE LURE OF THE ROAD"....

uplanderguy

I could see why certain folks held out for Cadillacs instead of Ninety Eights or Electras, though. The brand image; the division made only the top-end cars, no intermediates nor compacts like Buick and Olds; and the engines, instrument panels, and some sheetmetal wasn't shared with other lower models like Buicks (LeSabres) and Olds (Delta 88's). ('Engines' of course referring to optional engines in LeSabres and Delta 88's).

Most of that is image-only stuff though of course.

benjaminh

The 46-page brochure for the various Buick models for 1926 is surprisingly technical. The introduction encourage the owner of the brochure to keep it for reference, for it will demonstrate in great detail the superior engineering and quality found in a Buick which, the booklet says, makes Buicks the best value on the market. Here are the first 10 pages or so of this lengthy booklet....

andre1969

ab348 said:

andre1969 said:

I remember reading, awhile back, that a Buick Electra was the perfect car for an investment banker...not too conservative, not too flashy or risky. Supposedly, a Ninety-Eight meant you were too conservative, and wouldn't make your client enough money. A New Yorker or Imperial meant you were too willing to take risks, and might lose it all. A Cadillac meant you were making more money for yourself than your client...and showing off about it. And a Lincoln meant that you aspired to be the Cadillac guy, but weren't as good as fooling people into becoming your client. But, an Electra said you were trustworthy, successful, and a good risk.

The top trim Electras were just as posh inside as a Cadillac too, so you were only giving up the name/image and taking a different engine.

Back in 2001, I think, I saw a '75 Electra for sale at a shopping mall. It was a black 4-door hardtop with a burgundy interior. I forget the trim levels that year (Limited, Park Ave?) but it was definitely at or near the top. Seller wanted $1400 for it, and the only thing I saw flagrantly wrong with it was the end-caps for the rear fenders were shot. Every once in awhile, I think back on it and wish I had bought it. A few months later, a local park and sell lot had a light brown '76 LeMans coupe that looked good from a distance, but when I actually stopped to look at it, it was a letdown. Some rust here and there, and holes in the trunk floor. Plus, it only had a Chevy 250-6 under the hood, and no a/c/ They wanted $1200 for that thing! But then, a few months later, I found the '79 5th Ave I ended up buying, and it was only $900. If I had bought the Electra, I know I never would've bought it, and I have enjoyed having the 5th Ave, over the years.

Still, if I could go back in time, I'd buy that Electra AND the 5th Ave!

benjaminh

For 1928 Buick had a short and snazzy booklet, as well as another large brochure. The brochures is titled "How To Choose a Motor Car Wisely," and was "prepared by the engineering department of Buick Motor Company." In the 1920s Buick was having big sales success, and Buick's prices do seem good for a high end car of the time.

benjaminh

The year 1929 was Buick's silver anniversary....

benjaminh

Some pages from the full-color Buick brochure for 1930. The cover seems almost like it was done by someone from The New Yorker. Over the decades, Buick has poured a lot of advertising dollars into The New Yorker, which has long been my favorite magazine....The seven passenger Buick on its 132 inch wheelbase was quite large—and look at those fold out seats. Since we've previously skipped the Oldsmobile brochures from before 1930, we now have a good sampling of brochures from the first three decades of motoring in America....

fintail

Ah, 1929, the "pregnant Buick". The brand really hit its stride in the mid-late 30s.

bhill2

fintail said:

Ah, 1929, the "pregnant Buick". The brand really hit its stride in the mid-late 30s.

OK, Fin, I'll bite. How did it end up with that nickname. Post-war Packards I can see the reference. '29 Buicks, not so much.

berri

Those postwar Packard's were called bathtubs I believe, or was the postwar Nash? And that may be as pregnant looking as cars got

fintail

1929 Buicks were maybe the first mainstream car to have a bulge at the beltline, and the theme is also visible in the windows. It was unique for the time, and the name stuck:

http://www.autonews.com/article/20080914/OEM02/309149957/a-shaky-start:-the-pregnant-buick

http://carstylecritic.blogspot.com/2017/08/how-pregnant-was-1929-buick.html

bhill2 said:

OK, Fin, I'll bite. How did it end up with that nickname. Post-war Packards I can see the reference. '29 Buicks, not so much.

uplanderguy

I've heard '48-50 Packards called derisively, the "Pregnant Elephant".

berri

Those are very interesting cars design wise because they seem to evoke very strong like or not responses, Some will say that result reflects good, bold styling and others say that is politically correct crapola

fintail

I've heard that one for the Packard as well, along with bathtub, and of course there's the bathtub Nash.

berri

Those are very interesting cars design wise because they seem to evoke very strong like or not responses, Some will say that result reflects good, bold styling and others say that is politically correct crapola

fintail

I like the bathtub Packards, and the Nashes are pretty cool too.

uplanderguy

I lean towards liking 'different', but I can't like either those Packards or the Nashes, not to say either weren't good cars.

I always wondered how turning the wheel the whole way went in those Nashes with no wheel openings!

fintail

I've always loved Doc Brown's Packard from BTTF, pretty car:



I like the wagons, too:



I suspect these were sturdy cars too, or maybe they just look like they are made from battleship-grade metal.

Mr_Shiftright

bhill2 said:

fintail said:

Ah, 1929, the "pregnant Buick". The brand really hit its stride in the mid-late 30s.

OK, Fin, I'll bite. How did it end up with that nickname. Post-war Packards I can see the reference. '29 Buicks, not so much.

In 1929, there was a little bulge just below the belt line on the Buick. To our modern eyes, we barely notice it, but back then just about every car was as flat and right-angled as a cardboard box. "Bulges" were revolutionary!


Some say the term "pregnant Buick" was coined by none other than Walter P. Chrysler.


David Dunbar Buick came to something of a sad end. (This from WIKI):

"In an interview with historian Bruce Catton in 1928, Buick admitted that he was almost completely broke, unable to even afford a telephone, and worked as an instructor at the Detroit School of Trades.The following year, he died from colon cancer on March 5, 1929 at the age of 74"

GM apparently never chose to help him, or perhaps didn't even know his plight. Buick was not a good businessman.


"

omarman

fintail said:

I swear our Tempo had "polycast" wheels, where the surface seemed almost kind of porous.

The 1979 88 is from "Sixteen Candles", the car destroyed by Long Duk Dong.

Ok I never saw the movie but first heard about it from a GF who would call me up and start quoting Long Duk Dong. "No more wanky, need food" something like that. I never understood the context of her quotes but just assumed it was um, gender targeted cinema. So I never bothered to see it then or watch it on cable either.

Seems funny looking back now that many 80s teen movies played the hot car kill card. Ferris with the Ferrari, Risky Business and the Porsche, Fast Times and the Z28.

Michaell

omarman said:

fintail said:

I swear our Tempo had "polycast" wheels, where the surface seemed almost kind of porous.

The 1979 88 is from "Sixteen Candles", the car destroyed by Long Duk Dong.

Ok I never saw the movie but first heard about it from a GF who would call me up and start quoting Long Duk Dong. "No more wanky, need food" something like that. I never understood the context of her quotes but just assumed it was um, gender targeted cinema. So I never bothered to see it then or watch it on cable either.

Seems funny looking back now that many 80s teen movies played the hot car kill card. Ferris with the Ferrari, Risky Business and the Porsche, Fast Times and the Z28.

So the Oldsmobile wagon in "Sixteen Candles" was a hot car?

The object of the protagonists desire drove a Guards Red 944 with a license plate of 21850 - that happened to be John Hughes' birthday.

omarman

So the Oldsmobile wagon in "Sixteen Candles" was a hot car?

Well only if stolen
But if there was a Porsche in that movie and if it was driven nearby Lake Michigan...

xwesx

For those of you who like early automobiles, you simply MUST visit the Fairbanks Auto Museum if you're up this way. It is well worth the price of admittance.

benjaminh

xwesx said:

For those of you who like early automobiles, you simply MUST visit the Fairbanks Auto Museum if you're up this way. It is well worth the price of admittance.

+++ Too bad it's a 63 hour drive from where I live....

uplanderguy

When I was a kid, the only Packards I was aware of were those '48-50 pregnant elephants. My friend the Stude-Packard-MB dealer--although I didn't know him then--drove a dark green one in what would've been the early sixties. He later told me it kept coming back to them as a trade-in over the years and he did like the straight eight it had. I can faintly remember him pulling up to the house behind us when I was a kid. The kid I was talking to was the son of a friend of his and I can remember the kid saying "Mr. Filer, what year is your Packard?" and him answering, "'49".

I was never aware of any Packards later than those ones, until I was an adult.

fintail

Per their site, they do have an impressive brass-era collection for something in that location - I wouldn't have expected vehicles of that vintage.

Brass-era cars remain popular, while some later cars have declined in popularity and value.

xwesx said:

For those of you who like early automobiles, you simply MUST visit the Fairbanks Auto Museum if you're up this way. It is well worth the price of admittance.

fintail

It's a niche market for sure, you have to be into 80s pop culture and Hughes humor to like it - some do, some don't. I wasn't yet a teen then, but I like movies of that era. Hughes was also a master at casting cars - he didn't just use stuff off a rental lot like seems to happen in some movies, they all appear to be there for a reason.

The Olds 88 belonged to the protagonist's grandparents, not a hot car. Jake Ryan's 944 was an automatic, which surprises me. His dad's brown Corniche sticks in my memory just as much.

omarman said:

Ok I never saw the movie but first heard about it from a GF who would call me up and start quoting Long Duk Dong. "No more wanky, need food" something like that. I never understood the context of her quotes but just assumed it was um, gender targeted cinema. So I never bothered to see it then or watch it on cable either.

Seems funny looking back now that many 80s teen movies played the hot car kill card. Ferris with the Ferrari, Risky Business and the Porsche, Fast Times and the Z28.

fintail

My mom told me in high school, she dated a boy who had a bathtub Packard, this would have been in the early 60s. She remembered it as it seemed "old" then. I think the first Packard I recall was seeing an early 50s coupe sitting in a field in eastern WA (where nothing seems to decay past a certain point). It could still be there. When I was a student in the late 90s, there was a fellow student who I knew as an acquaintance, who had a 55-56 2 door hardtop, yellow and black. It was not restored, a driver with patina. He had the rockabilly thing going, and the car was a good accessory.

uplanderguy said:

When I was a kid, the only Packards I was aware of were those '48-50 pregnant elephants. My friend the Stude-Packard-MB dealer--although I didn't know him then--drove a dark green one in what would've been the early sixties. He later told me it kept coming back to them as a trade-in over the years and he did like the straight eight it had. I can faintly remember him pulling up to the house behind us when I was a kid. The kid I was talking to was the son of a friend of his and I can remember the kid saying "Mr. Filer, what year is your Packard?" and him answering, "'49".

I was never aware of any Packards later than those ones, until I was an adult.

texases

One style I've wondered about is the early '50s 'fastback'. Seems to be an odd way to style a car back then, didn't it result in terrible visibility?

omarman

I looked over a list of brass era vehicles on display at Fountainhead and it's impressive. Including a 1907 White Steamer model G. I used to live across the street from a real old-boy-network car collector who had a restored 1907 White Steamer model H, I think. He and his wife would sometimes put on period dress clothing, and go for short (and slow) drives on Rt 8. I think that car is now in the Jay Leno collection.

But I was wondering how all those interesting cars wound up in Fairbanks?

uplanderguy

I like that styling on those Chevys also. That particular car is a '52. Where I lived, one used to still see the '49-54 Chevys (fastbacks ended with the '52) used as second or 'work' cars, well into the sixties. Most I remember were the 'bustleback' or "Styleline" as they were called by Chevy. The 'fastback' models were called "Fleetline" by Chevy.

Somewhere around here I have a pic of my paternal grandparents, who lived near us, in front of their four-door '49 Chevy Fleetline fastback. The car has a big windshield visor that my Dad had told me he had bought for Grandpa for Father's Day.

fintail

I think the early 50s fastback is a continuation of just-prewar styling themes, this was seen as futuristic:



Caddy did it very well:



Packard had one too, I believe these are relatively sought after:



Didn't work well with fins, so by 53 or so I guess nobody made one anymore.

uplanderguy

That Caddy is gorgeous to my eyes.

ab348

The Caddy, Olds, Buick and Packard (pre-"pregnant elephant") fastbacks looked great to my eye.

The visibility issue was because stylists hadn't yet figured out you need a longer rear window and instead kept the proportions of it along with the trunklid roughly the same as they did on notchback cars. In the '60s they finally changed that, going with bigger backlights and stubby trunklids.

Michaell

fintail said:

It's a niche market for sure, you have to be into 80s pop culture and Hughes humor to like it - some do, some don't. I wasn't yet a teen then, but I like movies of that era. Hughes was also a master at casting cars - he didn't just use stuff off a rental lot like seems to happen in some movies, they all appear to be there for a reason. The Olds 88 belonged to the protagonist's grandparents, not a hot car. Jake Ryan's 944 was an automatic, which surprises me. His dad's brown Corniche sticks in my memory just as much.

Ok I never saw the movie but first heard about it from a GF who would call me up and start quoting Long Duk Dong. "No more wanky, need food" something like that. I never understood the context of her quotes but just assumed it was um, gender targeted cinema. So I never bothered to see it then or watch it on cable either. Seems funny looking back now that many 80s teen movies played the hot car kill card. Ferris with the Ferrari, Risky Business and the Porsche, Fast Times and the Z28.

I thought the 944 was a stick - it’s why Farmer Ted had to take the Rolls.

fintail

That's the fun part - indeed that was the excuse, but there's a scene where you see Jake in the car, and can see the distinctive automatic shift lever handle. IMCDB covers it too, I think.

Michaell said:

I thought the 944 was a stick - it’s why Farmer Ted had to take the Rolls.

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

When I was a kid, the only Packards I was aware of were those '48-50 pregnant elephants. My friend the Stude-Packard-MB dealer--although I didn't know him then--drove a dark green one in what would've been the early sixties. He later told me it kept coming back to them as a trade-in over the years and he did like the straight eight it had. I can faintly remember him pulling up to the house behind us when I was a kid. The kid I was talking to was the son of a friend of his and I can remember the kid saying "Mr. Filer, what year is your Packard?" and him answering, "'49".

I was never aware of any Packards later than those ones, until I was an adult.

We called them "bathtub Packards". Sturdy cars, however, and that straight 8 had enough torque to pull a house down. You could get them with automatic transmission, or 3-speed with overdrive. The deluxe models had a leather interior and hydraulic windows. If you tried to dent one with your fist or foot you would merely hurt yourself.

Michaell

fintail said:

That's the fun part - indeed that was the excuse, but there's a scene where you see Jake in the car, and can see the distinctive automatic shift lever handle. IMCDB covers it too, I think.

I thought the 944 was a stick - it’s why Farmer Ted had to take the Rolls.

Cool - thanks for the trivia. 

xwesx

fintail said:

Per their site, they do have an impressive brass-era collection for something in that location - I wouldn't have expected vehicles of that vintage.

Brass-era cars remain popular, while some later cars have declined in popularity and value.

xwesx said:

For those of you who like early automobiles, you simply MUST visit the Fairbanks Auto Museum if you're up this way. It is well worth the price of admittance.

I think their newest car is a 1939 model, though I cannot remember the make. They have some seriously old stuff! Some things that one might not even realize is an automobile until you take a close look at it. Some of the engineering on those things is truly remarkable. And, some of the designs are still in use today, albeit not necessarily on automobiles!

texases

That is a remarkable collection! How long has it been open? I hope I didn't miss it during my stay in Anchorage ('83-'95).

fintail

Fairbanks entrepreneur Tim Cerny began collecting the museum's 85-plus vehicles in 2007, carefully selecting each one for their historical significance, technological innovations, or rarity

It's unusual that a collection of such early cars was started so recently.

kyfdx

fintail said:

Fairbanks entrepreneur Tim Cerny began collecting the museum's 85-plus vehicles in 2007, carefully selecting each one for their historical significance, technological innovations, or rarity

It's unusual that a collection of such early cars was started so recently.

I had a friend with over 20 brass-era cars in the lower level of his house. Some duplicates from that collection, but not many. (Pope-Toledo and curved dash Olds). And hardly anything from after the brass-era. Which just shows you how many different makes there were. It's amazing. I would guess he accumulated most of his cars from the mid-1970s through 2010. We were in San Diego at a car museum, and they had a brass era vehicle that I was looking at... then noticed his initials on the driver's door. He had sold it to a friend, who had loaned it to the museum (Pierce-Arrow, I think).

Unfortunately, he passed away a couple of weeks ago, at a relatively young age (78).

bhill2

texases said:

One style I've wondered about is the early '50s 'fastback'. Seems to be an odd way to style a car back then, didn't it result in terrible visibility?

My dad bought a '51 2-door Fleetline so that my sister could have the 'good' car (a '60 Falcon with Fordomatic) to drive to and from school every day. The Chevy had the old one-speed Powerglide. I think it could still outaccelerage the Falcon.

uplanderguy

I'm betting the Chevy was green. Seems like every one of that era I can remember as a kid was green.

andre1969

I think I've seen old acceleration tests of Chevies of that era around 20 seconds. If the Falcon just had the little 144, it was probably worse! I can remember an old road test of a Comet with the 144/auto, and it did 0-60 in around 27 seconds. The Falcon was smaller and a bit lighter, so it would've been a little bit quicker, but probably not much.

And yeah, those light aqua/green colors seemed really popular in the early 50's. The '53 DeSoto my Granddad bought off of his brother in law was a hue similar to that Chevy Fleetline, above.

fintail

I think there were hundreds of brands that may have produced just a dozen vehicles - and once prolific brands that are unknown now. Interesting period, and I have always liked how the cars look and sound. A bucket list thing for me would be to see London-Brighton, and a bucket list lottery winner thing would be to drive it - maybe in a Mercedes-Simplex or something especially remarkable from the era.

kyfdx said:

I had a friend with over 20 brass-era cars in the lower level of his house. Some duplicates from that collection, but not many. (Pope-Toledo and curved dash Olds). And hardly anything from after the brass-era. Which just shows you how many different makes there were. It's amazing. I would guess he accumulated most of his cars from the mid-1970s through 2010. We were in San Diego at a car museum, and they had a brass era vehicle that I was looking at... then noticed his initials on the driver's door. He had sold it to a friend, who had loaned it to the museum (Pierce-Arrow, I think).

Unfortunately, he passed away a couple of weeks ago, at a relatively young age (78).

Mr_Shiftright

Those brass-era cars are little (and sometimes not so little) gems---it's like they are adorned with jewelry, or they imitate the pilot house of an old wooden yacht. I'm sure many of the pieces are machined from brass billet, or hand-cast.

kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright said:

Those brass-era cars are little (and sometimes not so little) gems---it's like they are adorned with jewelry, or they imitate the pilot house of an old wooden yacht. I'm sure many of the pieces are machined from brass billet, or hand-cast.

My friend was full of stories about collecting cars.

He ran into a guy in Michigan, who had inherited a musical instrument store from his father. The old-time kind, where they would repair trumpets, etc. The son wasn't making any money, and my friend told him that if he could restore brass lights, trim, etc. off of brass-era cars, that he would never want for business.

So, that's what happened. There are plenty of brass era cars that have had a lot of money sunk into the brass cosmetics. It's worth it, if you have a half-million dollar car, though.

texases

Just like there are more '50s cars with wire wheels and Continental kits than ever left the show room that way, there is more brass on some of these early cars than then came with when purchased. My dad had a 1911 Regal while I was growing up, and had the radiator surround brass plated to spruce it up a bit.

Given that just about everything besides the body, frame, and running gear could be add-ons back then, these changes don't affect how I view the cars at all.