I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

stickguy

take that grill nonsense off the front, and if it was a manual trans, I would not mind that yellow S10!

andre1969

They mentioned the Seville in several episodes, but part one of "Mama for Mayor", a 2nd season episode, was the only one where they actually showed it. The first mention was part two of Vint and Naomi's wedding, from the first season. Eunice questions why Ellen's husband Bruce isn't at the wedding, and Ellen says "He's at the Cadillac dealership, closing the deal on my new Seville. It's parked outside, right behind that abandoned wreck!" Ed looks out the window and says "That abandoned wreck is OUR car!" And then something like "What'd Brucey boy have to give up to get that machine?" and Ellen replies, with that trademark Betty White smirk, "His secretary!"

There was an inconsistency in one of the episodes, the one where Mama gets knocked out making boysenberry jam, and Ellen, Eunice, and Naomi all have their own versions of what happened. In Eunice's version, she mentions that she was on Route 5, and this "Loong, black Seville knocked me clear out of my lane, and right into the path of a gasoline tanker!" Ellen just chuckles and says "Be very careful, Eunice dear, next time you might NOT be so lucky!" I also recall an episode where Ellen mentions that the family should ride in her air conditioned Seville. Ellen sure was proud of that car!

I'd imagine one reason the Versailles was a hard sell was because of Ford's dealer setup. Whereas Cadillac dealers usually stood alone in those days, with Ford it was Lincoln/Mercury. So the Versailles had to sit right there on the lot next to the much cheaper, but way too similar-looking Monarch. At least, by the time the '82 Continental came out, it was differentiated enough that the similarity to a 4-door Cougar wasn't nearly as obvious.

tjc78

Found this gem in the basement looking for something else
.

andre1969

According to Wikipedia, the crew-cab S10 came out in 2001, and for 2004 it was the only remaining configuration, as the regular and extended-cab models were dropped. I was in Aruba back in December, and they're actually still quite common down there, just with a different front-end. Again, according to Wiki, they were built until 2012 in Brazil. So I guess that's where Aruba was getting them from.

uplanderguy

I drove about fifteen miles yesterday on two-lane roads behind probably a '90's Toyota pickup. It was well-worn and beat up, doglegging its way down the road. Is that the right word? It was going down the road crooked. I couldn't stand being behind it!

fintail

I always imagined Ellen in a bustleback more than the cleaner previous gen car. The Mama learns to drive/buys a car episodes are pretty good in their own right.

That Buyer's Guide is amusing - a cloud car with nice wheels Windstar(stall), Landcruiser, or GMSaab - one is far more desirable on the market 25 years later than the others.

Somewhere I have a 1981 Consumer Guide car book, but it fell apart and might not be in one piece now.

andre1969

I always imagined Ellen in a Bustleback, as well. Part of it might have been the "new Seville" dialogue from the wedding episode...a Bustleback would have been new at that point (1983). But, in the episode where they tried to teach her how to drive, they mentioned Mama hitting a concrete barrier in the parking lot in reverse, and Ellen whining about where can she find a crowbar on a Sunday afternoon, because she had a rump roast and a half gallon of butter pecan ice cream in the trunk. I guess just mentioning the trunk made me think "bustleback" for some reason. And, the "loong, black Seville" comment...a black Bustleback just has a more menacing look to it, IMO, than a black first-gen would.

I have a 1985 Consumer Guide packed away, somewhere, and it was getting pretty fragile, itself.

laurasdada

An Excalibur, from a distance, looked beige.

Michaell

I had to make an ice cream run this afternoon.

Spotted a recent vintage Rolls Royce.

uplanderguy

I'd imagine one reason the Versailles was a hard sell was because of Ford's dealer setup. Whereas Cadillac dealers usually stood alone in those days, with Ford it was Lincoln/Mercury.

In my little hometown, the Chevy dealer also sold Cadillac, and the Ford dealer was Ford/Mercury.

Just a few months ago I posted on a hometown Facebook page, asking if the Ford dealer also sold Lincoln. The dealer's granddaughter, my biggest secret high-school crush, responded "My grandfather did sell Lincolns".

The Chevy dealer in town, where I about lived from 1970 to 1976, once had a newspaper ad I considered bold but snarky. It had their name, then "CHEVROLET" next to it, a space below that, then "CADILLAC" below the space. In the space, it read, "There's really nothing in-between"!

fintail

Saw a late 70s El Camino on the road this afternoon. Kind of a late 80s custom look, with a bed cap and spoiler.

Small town where I lived as a teen (and my mom still lives) had the odd combo of a Honda-Buick-Cadillac dealer. Also a Chevrolet-Toyota dealer in the same building, which never struck me as odd then, but now seems insane (about 5 years ago Toyota finally got its own building, but just next door).

uplanderguy

When I moved to where I live now, in 1991, there was a longtime Chevy dealer, Don Joseph, since the sixties. It had existed before that, but under different ownership. He had a small Toyota dealership next door. Well, he ended up building a very large Toyota dealership while the Chevy dealer stayed the same. He ended up selling the Chevy dealer in probably the mid-nineties. It didn't survive the 2009 bloodbath. I miss it, as it was smallish, great service manager, and I could walk home from there. But, there was another Chevy dealer within six miles east, one three miles west, and a third, about eight miles west and south. The one six miles east also didn't survive the 2009 stuff. The Toyota dealer is the only one 'til Akron, about 15 or so miles away. The daughter runs the Toyota dealer now...her commercials are insufferable ("Toyota in Kent, hey! DJ!")

roadburner

I remember when the Versailles was first introduced; The Car and Driver road test was subtitled "A Granada Goes to JC Whitney"- which I thought was a deadly accurate observation.

fintail

Small towns in the PNW maybe didn't have the dealer density seen in other parts of the country. Where my mom lives, a small town maybe 10-15 miles away has a small old time Chevy dealer (maybe the same family owner since the 20s, possibly in the same location), but nothing beyond that for maybe another 40 miles. There's one small town Ford dealer maybe 20 miles from the one in her town, then nothing for another 30 miles. No other Toyota or Honda dealers within 50-60 miles of the one in her town. The town also had a Mopar dealer, but I think it vanished around the time of the great recession, and the building is forlorn and empty to this day IIRC. And today the same group owns Ford-Chevy-Toyota, while the Caddy-Buick-Honda is just Honda now.

Michaell

I can sort of understand the Chevy-Toyota dual dealership, given the NUMMI relationship from the 80's

uplanderguy

Where I grew up, there never was a VW, Datsun, Toyota, or Honda dealer. I don't think one would've played very well. The Pontiac dealer did sell Subaru from about '71-73 or '74 I think. I remember climbing in a new one and being totally unimpressed--styling, wheel size, door thickness, and a plastic ashtray came out in my hand very easily.

There is only the Ford dealer right in town now, and a Chrysler-Jeep-Dodge dealer a mile or two out of the town limits.

andre1969

I guess growing up in the DC suburbs, the idea of consolidated dealerships is a relatively new thing. The earliest I can remember was a dealership that sold Dodges and Pontiacs, two cars that I'd think would compete with each other a bit too much. I don't know how far back they had that agreement, but I remember going with my Mom, when one of her friends wanted to check out the new K-cars! My grandparents bought their '75 Dart Swinger there, and my uncle bought his used '88 LeBaron there. These days, they're Dodge/Jeep/Ram/Chrysler.

The mechanics I used to go to back in the late 80's, 90's, and early '00s (they eventually retired), used to work at that dealer in the early 60s. They said that, at one time, it sold Plymouth/Dodge/DeSoto/Chrysler/Imperial.

The dealer I bought my 2000 Park Avenue from was originally a Cadillac-only dealer. But, by the time I got that Buick, late 2009, they were pushing Pontiac, GMC, Buick, Hummer, Saab, and Caddy. Now they're just down to Buick/GMC/Cadillac.

uplanderguy

Whenever I now see a Buick/GMC dealer, I think I wouldn't want to be that guy.

ab348

The dealership I bought my 2009 Lacrosse from was a Pontiac/Buick/GMC/Hummer dealership. They had gone to considerable expense to add to their showroom with a dedicated Hummer-only section. Their volume brands were Pontiac and GMC. Pontiac had just gone away when I bought the Buick there and the sales guy was confident they would get a Chevy franchise to replace it. But they were such a crappy dealership that it turned our GM said no to that, and a year later they announced they were closing. The facility is now a Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Ram dealership.

andre1969

The dealer I bought my 2000 Intrepid from, sold Chevy, Dodge, and Isuzu at the time. Although I guess Isuzu went away very soon after that. My Dad got his '03 Regal there, used, from the same salesman I bought the Intrepid from. My uncle had bought a '97 Silverado from them, and back in the day, Mom bought her '86 Monte Carlo from them.

Interestingly, they had better luck with Dodge than Chevy, so they ended up dropping Chevy, and picking up Chrysler and Jeep. They spent a ton of money remodeling the showroom, as well. And then, when the Great Recession hit, they closed up. I still have an old email the dealer sent me, from back in late 2009. Their reasons were that Chrysler had changed hands too many times (Benz, then Cerberus, and now Fiat) and they didn't have faith in Chrysler being able to bring competitive small, fuel-efficient vehicles to the market in the future.

Although, this could be an example of famous last words... "But looking down the road, they say, their prospects for making money remained dim. A succession of different Chrysler corporate parents did not invest much in new product development, they said, and the truck-heavy automaker failed to offer the type of vehicles that would attract the value-conscious consumer.

The only new product that we're aware of is the 2011 Jeep Cherokee," said Paul Sheehy, general manager of the dealership. "Where is the broad array of vehicles competing with the Ford Focus and Toyota Prius? We just don't see that on the horizon."

But, considering the market got even more truck-heavy after the Great Recession than before, and the Ram became a more major player, they probably were premature in dumping the franchise. Plus, I believe the Cherokee has been a pretty hot seller. Meanwhile, regular car-type sedans have been slowly going the way of the tailfin and wraparound windshield.

And, that freshly-remodeled dealership building sat there, vacant, for about a decade. I just looked it up on Google maps. Looks like it's being turned into a megachurch

fintail

I know the town where my mom lives never had Japanese brands aside from Toyota and Honda, but back in the day when the working class had more purchasing power, it actually had a VW dealer, and a general "foreign car" dealer that sold Volvo and BL/BMC/British cars. I think the VW and foreign car dealers were gone by 1980.

My town had a Hummer dealer, when that went under, Cadillac took over the half-quonset hut style building, which still seems funny to me. The Caddy dealer here relocated from a sprawling very 70s style facility with somewhat hacienda architectural cues. That facility was recently razed, I suspect to be replaced by more "luxury" condos for residency purchasers and speculators.

uplanderguy

As you know, you could buy an M-B, a Simca, and Sunbeam in my hometown in the sixties, all at the same dealer!

fintail

This was located just a few blocks from where I live:



This building was leveled this year, to be replaced by an office tower, which I suppose is better than dirty money condos. Seattle had the local MB dealer until the 80s, I think, when a competing dealership was opened on this side of the lake. Tacoma also had one around that time.

The small town where my mom lives also had a Stude dealer, and a Packard dealer.

uplanderguy

I've always heard those Renault Dauphines required serious commitment to enjoy.

Were the Stude and Packard dealers in your mom's town, separate or combined?

ab348

Speaking of 1st-gen Sevilles as we were, here is one in a rather unique combination of colors:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1977-cadillac-seville-3/









Even a color-coordinated trunk compartment!

The car looks remarkably well-preserved, almost like new. I like colorful vehicles, but even I'm not sure about this one.

I wonder if @driver100 has been holding out on us - it looks like him reflected in the rear window, taking that picture of the vinyl roof.

kyfdx

Not digging that color combo, but I really like that body style. Then, and now.

stickguy

I like it. kinda similar to our new car.

fintail

At one some time they were separate, but I think after the war they combined. IIRC the owner also ended up with the local Edsel franchise, but I am not certain.

I don't mind that color combo on the Seville, period correct and not offensive. The upholstery looks nearly new.

uplanderguy said:

I've always heard those Renault Dauphines required serious commitment to enjoy.

Were the Stude and Packard dealers in your mom's town, separate or combined?

tjc78

Yeah, I really like the combo on the Seville as well. A combo I would buy today. You can’t say that about many 70s combinations!

andre1969

It wouldn't be my first color choice, but I think the car wears it well. I think it might actually look better now than it would have a few years ago, as it seems like varying shades of brown have made their way back into cars.

I'm just not a huge fan of white in general. My stepdad had a white '81 Escort and then a white '84 Tempo, and now that I think about it, when they got their '91 Stanza and '99 Altimas, those suckers were white, too! Plus, I had that white '68 Dart for years, and now my white Ram. I really didn't want to get the truck in white, but it was the end of the model year and I got a really good deal on it, and I honestly sort of looked at it as just an appliance.

On that Seville though, I think the white looks classy. And that dark butterscotch/burnt caramel, or whatever you want to call it, while not the most attractive color on its own, makes a nice contrast to the white, I think.

tjc78

I love white cars. I’ve had several and even owned two at one time!

uplanderguy

I love that Seville! The leather looks new...and I suspect it might be. The white leather in Betty White's car, with even fewer miles than this car, doesn't look like its fared nearly as well. How could buttery 40+ year old leather in a car with 32K miles have zero leather creases in the driver's seat?

I'm not complaining, it looks beautiful AND original, and that's good to my eyes.

The styling has certainly stood the test of time I think. I'd love it more without wire wheelcovers.

Those wires look better than some factory wires that look like a J.C. Whitney product (big center; short spokes), but the appeal of wires got so diluted IMHO when virtually any model car could be had with them from the factory into the eighties and nineties.

texases

I've seen that color leather recently on some BMWs and a Mazda.

uplanderguy

At one some time they were separate, but I think after the war they combined. IIRC the owner also ended up with the local Edsel franchise, but I am not certain.

I have read that Edsel was a convenient lifeboat of opportunity for Packard dealers who did not add Studebaker during the 1954 merger. Sadly for a lot of them, Edsel was floudering big-time in 1959 when Studebaker made the biggest profit in its then-107-year history.

The last Stude dealer in Kent, where I live now, was an Edsel dealer beforehand.

Newman and Altman, long-known for being Stude dealers in South Bend starting in '59 and for resurrecting the Avanti, largely on their own, were Packard dealers who became Edsel dealers before going to Studebaker.

fintail

On the Seville, the disc hubcaps seen on cars posted earlier are much better looking. IIRC, were they also available with a color coded hubcap? I'd prefer some kind of "wheel" as sometimes seen on 79-85 Eldos and now and then a bustleback Seville.

Going from Packard to Edsel - rough. I wonder if that was the end of the line for some of those, or if they moved on to other upstarts like Japanese brands or maybe got into AMC.

uplanderguy

I'm trying to remember if these early Sevilles could be had with wheels or not. I'm thinking if they were, it was near the end of the run.

uplanderguy

Looks like real wire wheels were available in the 'Elegante' model in the '79 brochure. I didn't look in earlier ones.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I love that Seville! The leather looks new...and I suspect it might be. The white leather in Betty White's car, with even fewer miles than this car, doesn't look like its fared nearly as well. How could buttery 40+ year old leather in a car with 32K miles have zero leather creases in the driver's seat?

A couple of the commenters have raised the same point. It would be good for the seller to address that. Though I would think that making new covers in the exact factory pattern would be fiendishly expensive.

uplanderguy

Really. And I'm one of those guys that always says "That's not the original pattern", LOL. But on that car...it is indeed. That's always been a turnoff of super-soft leather in cars, to me. The "expanded vinyl" offered in the lowest-priced Calais models of Cadillac to me looked mostly like leather, but held up much, much better.

ab348

On the wheel covers, it seems like the vast majority of Sevilles of that era had wires judging from what is available online these days, but there was a "turbine wheel disc" referenced but not shown in the brochure. It looked like this:




Nice enough but pretty run of the mill for the times. No discs with body paint or other wheel choice was yet available though.

uplanderguy

Came up in my FB memories today, from two years ago today. '60 'Benz parked across the street from the old Studebaker Administration Building in South Bend. In '60 Stude was the U.S. distributor for M-B. Definitely a 'stuck in time' photo. President's office was top floor, left corner. Fin and I have discussed this, but this isn't the world's greatest neighborhood now, LOL.

There's used to be a breakfast/lunch place called "The Toasty Shoppe" about half-a-block from here. I remember it in the '80's and early '90's. My one friend who writes for Hemmings told me he and his cousin saw Studebaker president Sherwood Egbert at the counter there, sometime in the early '60's reading the paper and drinking coffee, and his Avanti sitting outside. Like that would ever happen for a CEO today. They were too shy to go up and tell him they appreciated his work at Studebaker...hard to imagine 'shy' if you met my friend today, LOL.

uplanderguy

RE.: Seville 'turbine' wheelcover--ironically, my friend who bought the Seville sent me a pic of one of these and asked me what I thought. I can't say I remember those covers, but I don't think they look any better than the standard wheelcover.

ab348

The brochure only mentions the wires and these turbines. Are you saying there was another type?

uplanderguy

On the 'Elegante' (silver and black two-tone; no vinyl top; extra upper chrome trim at tops of body sides; no normal body-side protective moldings) had real wire wheels. I don't really like the 'Elegante' in general, and neither does my buddy. It's in the '79 brochure, but I can't recall if the Elegante was offered in '78 or not.

The standard wheelcover I think is in brochure photos over the years and is what is on my friend's white Seville.

ab348

Ah, now that I look closely at the pic of the Doublemint Seville I see the difference. Similar center section but not quite the same around the outside.

fintail

On the road today saw a Bronco II, an 80s big Bronco, a white Thing on the interstate, a Suzuki Reno on small wide wheels, and the highlight, a silvery blue 61-62 Continental convertible, also on the road.

sda

uplanderguy said:

I love that Seville! The leather looks new...and I suspect it might be. The white leather in Betty White's car, with even fewer miles than this car, doesn't look like its fared nearly as well. How could buttery 40+ year old leather in a car with 32K miles have zero leather creases in the driver's seat?

I'm not complaining, it looks beautiful AND original, and that's good to my eyes.

The styling has certainly stood the test of time I think. I'd love it more without wire wheelcovers.

Those wires look better than some factory wires that look like a J.C. Whitney product (big center; short spokes), but the appeal of wires got so diluted IMHO when virtually any model car could be had with them from the factory into the eighties and nineties.

Those wire wheel covers were heavy. When dad had his 78 Sedan De Ville d’ Elegance and 79 Eldorado Diesel, they both had wire wheel covers, which dad loved. They were stolen from the De Ville and IIRC over $1k to replace. When dad bought the Eldorado, several spokes were missing or bent, causing havoc on wheel balance. Spokes were available separately for replacement. We bought replacements. I took the wheel covers apart, they were held together with many 5/32 bolts. It was a fairly easy repair. Along with new Michelins, it drove and rode like a Cadillac should.

uplanderguy

No cars here, but Sunday I drove the mile or mile-and-a-half over to the site of the Kent State shootings in 1970, as Monday was the 50th anniversary. There is a history walk set up there, and the site is largely unchanged. When you see photos from the event, the area looks the same (primarily, the Commons area, and Taylor Hall). An AP photog took my pic taking a pic of the bullet hole through a metal sculpture that happened that day, asked my name and we talked for a few minutes. I googled my name and "Kent State" yesterday and the pic was apparently syndicated to small papers around Ohio, and also Rome, NY and Honolulu! I was pleased. Pic is cut off so it doesn't show quite how slummy I was dressed--wore old crappy sneakers since I couldn't locate my loafers, and I had painted silver rustoleum under the PT Cruiser that morning and got about as much on me as on the car.

uplanderguy

Just saw something on FB that reminded me of my old theory that years have a way of making the bad seem worse, and the good seem better, than they actually were. Someone posted a pic of a very nice '76 Cordoba. Somebody underneath it wrote, "My Dad wanted one bad, but he test-drove three of them and each broke down on the way". Sorry, I don't buy it, LOL.

Michaell

uplanderguy said:

No cars here, but Sunday I drove the mile or mile-and-a-half over to the site of the Kent State shootings in 1970, as Monday was the 50th anniversary. There is a history walk set up there, and the site is largely unchanged. When you see photos from the event, the area looks the same (primarily, the Commons area, and Taylor Hall). An AP photog took my pic taking a pic of the bullet hole through a metal sculpture that happened that day, asked my name and we talked for a few minutes. I googled my name and "Kent State" yesterday and the pic was apparently syndicated to small papers around Ohio, and also Rome, NY and Honolulu! I was pleased. Pic is cut off so it doesn't show quite how slummy I was dressed--wore old crappy sneakers since I couldn't locate my loafers, and I had painted silver rustoleum under the PT Cruiser that morning and got about as much on me as on the car.

When I was travelling regularly for work (1989 to 2003), I spent in a week in Massillon, OH. I remember taking the drive to KSU one night after work and seeing the plaza where the shootings took place. Just a difficult time in our country's history.