I was fortunate, as I had the Vega's sister car, the Pontiac Astre (1975 wagon style, 4 speed).
I was incredibly fortunate, part due to buying a later year model and living in the South ( little to no snow/salted roads). I had no rust or engine problems whatsoever.
I put around 75K miles before trading it for a 1978 Chrysler. While there may have been (or, maybe not... I can't say) many that had identical success stories, I'd wager that practically all owners that traded in their Vega/Astre's in a 3-4 year ownership time-frame took a beating on trade-in value.
The particular car I had was a fun car to drive, and got good mpg as I remember.
A female friend in college also had a '75 Astre Safari--orange with wood on the side, and a 4-speed. She was from Utah but went to school in western PA, and drove that thing until '82 that I knew of--and trust me, she wasn't a maintenance maven. The thing looked decent (no rustout that I can remember). I rode it in numerous times. The worst thing I can remember was that the original "Sport" mirror lens fell out and someone in her family had glued another piece of mirror in its spot!
I do believe that by '75, they weren't all that bad. I think memory makes people remember good things as great and bad things as terrible, when the reality is in actuality, somewhere in the middle.
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Ah, I wish that were true, but no, they were really a disaster for GM.
Here's an excerpt from a Popular Mechanics article entitled "How the Chevy Vega Nearly Destroyed GM"
"By the end of the 1970s, the once-ubiquitous Vega was already disappearing from America's roads. With such a crummy reputation for reliability, the Vega's resale values soon dropped down near zero. Legend has it some salvage yard even put up "No Vegas" signs to announce that they weren't even bothering pulling usable parts off the cars before crushing them.
it's an interesting read, whether one agrees or not with it:
I'm not sure, but didn't Pinto actually outsell Vega? I recall seeing a lot more of the Ford subcompacts on the road, but maybe it was just a local market type thing.
I checked the link and it seems okay. Sorry you can't open it. Maybe try again later?
I lived through the Vega as well, and there was a negative media frenzy about it within a year of its inception. Early reactions to the car were very good. But after a few years, no one would touch that car. The negative attitude about it was total, and it was held up as a symbol of all that was wrong with GM. I can't recall a car with a worse reputation at the time--until maybe the Yugo.
I agree, the later ones were better--in 1976 the engine was redesigned, and called the Durabuilt 140----but I think the point of the article was that the car's reputation was so awful that GM could have gold-plated it, put in a Ferrari engine, and upholstered it in fine leather, and no one would have bought it.
So it didn't matter if the car got better---the reputation never did. In the car biz, perception IS reality.
All mostly true, but in 1973 it was still winning magazine and owner awards. Pinto did outsell it until 1974, when Vega outsold Pinto. The Pinto was significantly less expensive, at least upon introduction ($1,919 for the single Pinto bodystyle, versus $2,091 for the Vega two-door sedan--later called Notchback). I first became aware of the problems in around '74 probably, and GM did replace front fenders for free, not seeing fit to put plastic fender liners (which had to cost less than replacement fenders) in the cars until somewhere in the middle of the '74 model year. So much for holes in '71's, in '72!
Here's a '74 ad that lists the various awards. I specifically remember this particular photo ad. I'll let the reader decide the reasons! LOL
...was bid to $34,999.00. Quite a bit less than that Avanti from sixteen months ago, although I'd rather have the Hawk. I think that "original" and low-mileage is more and more appealing to people, even over an excellent restoration.
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I went biking with a friend in DC, and within like two minutes of each other, saw an antique-white Mercedes Ponton with a light blue '65 Tempest convertible with, according to the badge on the side, a 326.
The Ponton had what looked like a black vinyl insert that covered most of the roof. At the time I thought it was odd, as it made me think of how a lot of cars were built in the 1920's and such, before they made full steel roofs. But, in looking at pics on the web, it appears that big insert was a sunroof!
I guess a Ponton is uncommon enough these days, but one with a sunroof must really be rare. Both the Ponton and the Tempest looked like they were in pretty good shape.
Bingo! I hit that Hawk pretty close I think! (post 26822: "$36K more likely if it's a really really nice #2. ")
RE: VEGA---nah, that's not my recollection at all. The Vega was thought of as a terrible car pretty much after the first year, when the horror show began. I can't recall anyone in the business praising the car, once "reality" hit---meaning once it got out of magazine and on the road.
In fact, I myself was dumping on the car in a book I wrote in 1975 on best and worst used cars.
The Vega was, in fact, used by the media as a poster child for everything that was wrong with Detroit.
For one example, it's featured as the 8th worst car ever made in this book:
It would be a very very difficult car to be an apologist for teh Vega in a debate among historians. You'd have to face a torrent of historical data that suggests it's a hopeless cause. It's not a car I would relish defending personally.
No offense, but there can't be much research involved on a supercharged GT Hawk--exactly 276 were built for '63...49 years later, it's rare for them to come on the market. I look for them constantly. Again, other than private sales, I think eBay is generally the best arbiter of values. Both the Avanti and the Hawk, had people bidding, so the prices are the results of more than one person's wishes. A low price on a car can be as much of an anomaly as a high price. I do agree that, condition for condtion, Hawks bring more than Avantis. It wasn't like that 30 years ago. Hawk NOS parts got sucked up too, as they were restored more than Larks, which left a wonderful NOS situation at the time I was having my Daytona Skytop restored. There is a surprising vendor presence for '60's Studes...most anything, even trim and emblems, is reproduced if NLA, NOS.
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Plenty of data available for that car actually. That's how I nailed the price dead on. It wasn't magic, it was available data.
That's true, though,, what you said----- both extreme highs and extreme lows should be cut out of the curve when deciding on a "market".
The Hawk price was not an extreme, but your friend's Avanti price was, in my opinion, given the info that it was not in as good condition as the Hawk.
If anything, when you average out a car's eBay sales for say a few years, the bid prices tend to be a bit lower than what I consider "market". But that might be because many sellers describe their cars as 'excellent", which I think is how eBay groups the average (based on condition listed)--- when in fact the photos and descriptions tell a different story.
Most eBay bids seem rational to me, but now and then you reallly have to wonder what people are thinking when they bid. I'm sure some are regretful.
Pintos weren't much better than Vegas per rust. My Aunt Linda bought a new 1972 Ford Pinto in a mod red white and blue color scheme with "USA" shield decals on the C-pillars. after she graduated from nursing school. By the end of the 1970s, the tops of the front fenders were crudely patched with sheet metal and pop rivets and the whole car was painted police car blue.
Indeed. The rust on '71-'74 Fords was so bad that up here in Canada there was a class-action lawsuit about them and a grassroots "rusty Ford" action group that got a lot of media attention. In '75 Ford Canada began to spray clear rockerguard rubberized rock chip protection on the lower body in response to the bad publicity. And our '74 Maverick rusted like it was its day job. Never have I seen a car rust so fiercely and quickly as that one.
My college buddy with whom I commuted to class had a dad who was close friends with the local Mercury dealer. So at the time we drove to class in either his '73 Comet, our '74 Maverick, or later on, his '75 Bobcat. They were all pretty awful cars. Was the Vega any worse? I cannot say, but I somehow doubt it.
Detroit was really unraveling in the mid to late 70s--every defect in the system, from the absurd union demands to the poor engineering to the shoddy build quality to the inept management to the mis-reading of the import market, were all converging in one tumultuous storm of finger-pointing and constant loss of market share. The Big Three were selling cars, but stealing share from each other for the most part, and heading in the wrong direction.
Yep I see 'em now and then--they're pretty neat, if a bit gaudy. Problem was, the initial Cosworth engine, with a whopping 180 HP, had to be de-fanged by the time it slammed into US emissions regulations...so from a 12:5 compression ratio running on Sunoco 260 it ended up with something like 130HP at best and 110HP at worst.
Usually they are for sale for too much money, and they just sit epoxied to the floor. It's hard to get over $10,000 bucks for one, and most admirers have far more into them. Not a great choice as an investment but they do draw crowd interest because they are not often seen.
You sometimes see nice ones on eBay sell for around $7500. Those people asking $25,000 are going to be buried with their cars, alas.
I love the looks of the Cosworth--it did the black and gold thing before the Trans Am did.
They were 110 hp...same as a Monza V8 the same year, although lighter. No power steering available, and crazy-expensive.
A high school friend of mine owns the one our local dealer ever got in--serial no. 372--says so right on the instrument panel. I rode in it when it was new and was impressed at the time. It was marked down to $4,800 (from a sticker of $6,300) and sold about one year old as new, to a little old lady who told the salesman it reminded her of her husband's old Corvair. My friend bought it in the late '90's at a Chevy dealer about fifteen miles from our hometown...it had been traded in on a used Corvette and had the original paperwork in the glovebox which showed it was the one from our dealer that I had ridden in when new.
He got it a good price I think...less than half what Mr. Shiftright mentioned as a good price for a good one now.
I think a fair amount of them were saved, and so there are always ones on eBay, but I have noticed repeatedly that solid, original-looking, good-running regular Vegas are so rare in comparison to Cosworth, they actually bring more than a Cosworth when they do show up on eBay. (The orange '73 GT I posted the link to several posts ago would bring more on eBay than a similar Cosworth I firmly believe, merely because it's so much rarer TODAY)...price guides be damned.
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Not to worry about the Vega GT in price guides--the Vega GT isn't even IN collector car price guides. But the Cosworth does show up in many of them. Probably the GTs absence as a separate listing is another case of rarity not translating to value--as the saying goes "it has to be rare AND someone has to care".
Maybe it should have a separate listing, if one could demonstrate that the GT brings more money.
I'll run some research and see if that's actually the case historically:
Okay! Research shows that the GT brought about $800 average higher than a regular Vega, in the "excellent" category. $9400 vs. $8700 as top dollar for a show car.
Upon further review.......my post was a little vague. The Cosworth Vega I've seen has, as far as I know, never been TITLED since arriving new at the dealership over 35 years ago. I guess the price they had on it was more than anyone wanted to pay, and the dealer principal was obvoiusly in no hurry to get rid of it.I seem to remember that the serial number is on the dash, but don't recall the number itself.
Maybe two or three years ago, there was a dark brown '77 Vega GT on eBay that was virtually brand-new, saved by a Chevy dealer. It had the awful, huge "Vega GT" side graphics that were exclusive to that year. It was bid higher than the six or so Cosworths that are on eBay at any given one time, but I can't recall if it sold. Similarly, around the same time there was a '77 GT Estate wagon, same situation, different dealer...saved as new by the dealer. It was maroon, AC, auto, had the Cosworth wheels (Chevy had them leftover after Cosworth production stopped and they were a RPO on Vegas), and it drew bids higher than Cosworths on simultaneously too.
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The only Vega I have seen in years in real life is one near the entrance to a park having a disc golf course my daughter and I have been visiting for the last 6-7 years.
It never moved, and is covered with an old tarp, and the only way I know it's a Vega is the wind had blown the tarp off one day and i saw it as we went by, going to the course.
I suspect the owner "thinks" he has a rare bird on his hands, but in reality it's not much more than a rust bucket now, having been sitting in the elements for so long. You see that once in a while around here... Someone has what, in the right hands, could be a restorable, somewhat rare vehicle, but they would rather let it rust away than let someone else have the opportunity to fix it up.
I've never understood folks like that...
I once thought about stopping by to see if he was interested in selling it, but then... Why ask?
Someone has what, in the right hands, could be a restorable, somewhat rare vehicle, but they would rather let it rust away than let someone else have the opportunity to fix it up.
I've never understood that, either, but folks 'on the other side' always say, "It's his car, he can do whatever he wants with it".
I understand that, but...sheesh!
The other kind of guy that drives me nuts is the guy who overprices something common or junky in the old-car world, and says, "If I don't get my (inflated) price by the end of the month, I'm going to cut it up/part it out/ let it sit here".
Be my guest! LOL
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Oh, come on now, you wouldn't destroy the originality of a legend, would you?
Heck, my neighbor was doing that to them back when I was a kid in the 70's! He used to take them, throw in a 350, and race them.
Problem with the Vega nowadays though, is that really nice ones are so rare that if you do find one, it's a shame to deflower them like that. And the rest of them are probably so rough that it would take a fortune to get them in any kind of condition to accept a powerful engine.
When I was a kid, I didn't like the Vega because they just looked cheap to me. But, with age, I do find myself appreciating the body style more these days. I prefer the '74-77 models though, with the raked-back grille and stronger bumpers. The style of the '71-73 just seems too petite and fragile to me.
I really liked the Chevy Monza and Pontiac Sunbird derivatives though. I thought those were good looking little cars. The Starfire and Skyhawk looked good too, but IMO did not belong in the Olds/Buick lineups.
My Dad's 1972 Ford LTD Country Squire rusted with a fiendish vengeance. By 1979, it looked as if mice ran through the body. What was it with the steel Ford used these years? I heard it was either imported or the first time Ford used recycled steel.
Somehow...while I do respect the originality of certain cars...I find it hard to get my mind around the idea that an owner of an old Vega is somehow a steward of history. :P
Most people don't care about Vegas, and in years to come, will care even less...so I'd rather see it as a rat rod, giving pleasure to both driver and observer. I mean, now really, if you paid $20 bucks to get into an automotive museum, would you rush up to the front desk and ask "Quick! Tell me! Where are the Vegas?"
Yes but you're not the type that museums make money on. :P The gaudy, tawdry, voyeuristic or obscene objects in public display will always trump the unassuming ones. I'm sure there may be an antique garden shovel in the Smithsonian but I doubt too many people seek it out.
Whaddya talkin' about, the Studebaker National Museum has a plaque upstairs that has my name on it (among many others) for having given them x dollars! LOL
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Another highlight from the MB Classic Center Youngtimer section - beautiful 560SEC. This was the ultimate model in Europe, as they also had 420SEC and 500SEC at the same time. Great colors, as-new condition without about 50K miles on it. No price, but I'll eat my shoes if it is under EUR 20K.
My neighbor had a Vega when I was a kid. It had a 4.0 liter and a stick shift. He loved it, but was under it more than in it. When I visit my folks it's still there, under a tarp.
My mom had the worst cars in recent history. All of them. A 72 Gremlin, a 73 Pinto, a 1983 Reliant K wagon with burgundy "Rich Corinthian" vinyl. Lastly was the 1990 Festiva, which I begged her not to buy. She thought it was "cute". I thought it was "not". She now drives normal cars; after noticing the psychological trauma she was causing her car-guy son.
In a twist though, that Festiva never ever broke down on her. It went through wheel bearings like crazy. Apparently 12" cheap steel rims with P-145 tires would have been happier on a bicycle.
When I was a little kid, early 80s, people across the street had numerous cars, once of them a Vega wagon. One day the wife across the street and my mother went out somewhere in the Vega, and the engine croaked, my dad had to pick them up an hour from home. The story is folklore in my family now.
My parents did a fair job of avoiding the worst of the malaise era. My dad drove a 1970 Mustang until the early 80s, replacing it with a Horizon (must have been a shock) and then a S10 Blazer. Lackluster cars, but neither were really unreliable. My mother drove a land yacht T-Bird until the mid 80s, then cars like Ciera, Tempo, Taurus came into the fold - all of which were fine, if unexciting.
A K-car Town and Country doesn't seem like it would be too unpleasant.
My parents did a fair job of avoiding the worst of the malaise era.
I don't know what to think of my Parent's cars. I remember when I was really young my Dad had a Dodge Dart and my Mom had a Nova with a hole in the floor.
The Nova was replaced with a very early Escort with no air and no radio. My Dad got a Horizon as well, stick w/ air ! We drove in Dad's car.
The Escort gave way to an 85 Dodge Charger that even as a kid remember being broken too often. My Father also got a Charger but his was an 86 Shelby version. I thought that was a cool car as a kid. He wrecked that and had an 87 Shadow Turbo until he passed in 92.
My Mom kept the Charger forever and traded it on a used 92 Caravan 4cyl. Ugh.
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My dad's Horizon was stick, no AC. He grew fond of that car, apparently it handled OK for the era, and it was good in the snow. But eventually he just had to have that new breed of 80s small SUV.
I remember the Ciera having very good AC - and a "cricket" in the dash, and wire wheel covers that rattled and drove me insane. The Tempo and Taurus seemed to be from the future compared to the Ciera, with its crisper design and plush 80s GM velour.
One of my earlier car memories is going out to the T-Bird and playing with the zillion way power seats and all of the other junk until the battery drained :shades:
I remember one time thinking a wire wheel cover on our '93 Caprice was rattling...and I hate rattles. It ended up being a brake pad that was moving around.
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Comments
I was fortunate, as I had the Vega's sister car, the Pontiac Astre (1975 wagon style, 4 speed).
I was incredibly fortunate, part due to buying a later year model and living in the South ( little to no snow/salted roads). I had no rust or engine problems whatsoever.
I put around 75K miles before trading it for a 1978 Chrysler. While there may have been (or, maybe not... I can't say) many that had identical success stories, I'd wager that practically all owners that traded in their Vega/Astre's in a 3-4 year ownership time-frame took a beating on trade-in value.
The particular car I had was a fun car to drive, and got good mpg as I remember.
History tells me I was in a minority...
I do believe that by '75, they weren't all that bad. I think memory makes people remember good things as great and bad things as terrible, when the reality is in actuality, somewhere in the middle.
Here's an excerpt from a Popular Mechanics article entitled "How the Chevy Vega Nearly Destroyed GM"
"By the end of the 1970s, the once-ubiquitous Vega was already disappearing from America's roads. With such a crummy reputation for reliability, the Vega's resale values soon dropped down near zero. Legend has it some salvage yard even put up "No Vegas" signs to announce that they weren't even bothering pulling usable parts off the cars before crushing them.
it's an interesting read, whether one agrees or not with it:
Read more:Chevy Vega Turns 40 - How the Chevy Vega Nearly Destroyed GM - Popular Mechanics
One thing the Vega did was have a shutoff switch when oil pressure dropped too low. Vegas were sold for scrap when they were merely low on oil.
This is from being around the cars...not merely reading something thirty-five years later about them.
I lived through the Vega as well, and there was a negative media frenzy about it within a year of its inception. Early reactions to the car were very good. But after a few years, no one would touch that car. The negative attitude about it was total, and it was held up as a symbol of all that was wrong with GM. I can't recall a car with a worse reputation at the time--until maybe the Yugo.
I agree, the later ones were better--in 1976 the engine was redesigned, and called the Durabuilt 140----but I think the point of the article was that the car's reputation was so awful that GM could have gold-plated it, put in a Ferrari engine, and upholstered it in fine leather, and no one would have bought it.
So it didn't matter if the car got better---the reputation never did. In the car biz, perception IS reality.
Here's a '74 ad that lists the various awards. I specifically remember this particular photo ad. I'll let the reader decide the reasons! LOL
http://www.productioncars.com/vintage-ads.php/Chevrolet/Vega
I'd still love to own it.
The Ponton had what looked like a black vinyl insert that covered most of the roof. At the time I thought it was odd, as it made me think of how a lot of cars were built in the 1920's and such, before they made full steel roofs. But, in looking at pics on the web, it appears that big insert was a sunroof!
I guess a Ponton is uncommon enough these days, but one with a sunroof must really be rare. Both the Ponton and the Tempest looked like they were in pretty good shape.
RE: VEGA---nah, that's not my recollection at all. The Vega was thought of as a terrible car pretty much after the first year, when the horror show began. I can't recall anyone in the business praising the car, once "reality" hit---meaning once it got out of magazine and on the road.
In fact, I myself was dumping on the car in a book I wrote in 1975 on best and worst used cars.
The Vega was, in fact, used by the media as a poster child for everything that was wrong with Detroit.
For one example, it's featured as the 8th worst car ever made in this book:
CRAP CARS
It would be a very very difficult car to be an apologist for teh Vega in a debate among historians. You'd have to face a torrent of historical data that suggests it's a hopeless cause. It's not a car I would relish defending personally.
I can't defend the '71-74's, as I've said.
The guy with the $48K Avanti he sold, says that Hawk was nicer than his car and that it sold for too little. I'd tend to agree.
It's all academic anyway I guess, for as much as I'd love to own it, I'm afraid I'd be living elsewhere than my current home if I'd bought it.
In this economy, this late in the year, I guess it did well for a Studebaker.
I'm already hearing from more than one person how business is down since the election. I'll leave it at that, but that's scary stuff.
I try to get my numbers from real data. I don't pick them out of my....er....hat. :P
I think your friend maybe predicted a Romney presidency, too? He needs to look at overall numbers, not selected polling places.
The real test of an eBay sale is whether the person who bought it for X dollars could then re-sell it for X dollars the next day.
I'd bet not, in many cases.
That's true, though,, what you said----- both extreme highs and extreme lows should be cut out of the curve when deciding on a "market".
The Hawk price was not an extreme, but your friend's Avanti price was, in my opinion, given the info that it was not in as good condition as the Hawk.
If anything, when you average out a car's eBay sales for say a few years, the bid prices tend to be a bit lower than what I consider "market". But that might be because many sellers describe their cars as 'excellent", which I think is how eBay groups the average (based on condition listed)--- when in fact the photos and descriptions tell a different story.
Most eBay bids seem rational to me, but now and then you reallly have to wonder what people are thinking when they bid. I'm sure some are regretful.
Illustration:
Back to that Vega ad I posted...I remember thinking it was pretty scandalous back then, but I guess by today's standards...meh.
Still caught my attention though.;)
My college buddy with whom I commuted to class had a dad who was close friends with the local Mercury dealer. So at the time we drove to class in either his '73 Comet, our '74 Maverick, or later on, his '75 Bobcat. They were all pretty awful cars. Was the Vega any worse? I cannot say, but I somehow doubt it.
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Usually they are for sale for too much money, and they just sit epoxied to the floor. It's hard to get over $10,000 bucks for one, and most admirers have far more into them. Not a great choice as an investment but they do draw crowd interest because they are not often seen.
You sometimes see nice ones on eBay sell for around $7500. Those people asking $25,000 are going to be buried with their cars, alas.
They were 110 hp...same as a Monza V8 the same year, although lighter. No power steering available, and crazy-expensive.
A high school friend of mine owns the one our local dealer ever got in--serial no. 372--says so right on the instrument panel. I rode in it when it was new and was impressed at the time. It was marked down to $4,800 (from a sticker of $6,300) and sold about one year old as new, to a little old lady who told the salesman it reminded her of her husband's old Corvair. My friend bought it in the late '90's at a Chevy dealer about fifteen miles from our hometown...it had been traded in on a used Corvette and had the original paperwork in the glovebox which showed it was the one from our dealer that I had ridden in when new.
He got it a good price I think...less than half what Mr. Shiftright mentioned as a good price for a good one now.
I think a fair amount of them were saved, and so there are always ones on eBay, but I have noticed repeatedly that solid, original-looking, good-running regular Vegas are so rare in comparison to Cosworth, they actually bring more than a Cosworth when they do show up on eBay. (The orange '73 GT I posted the link to several posts ago would bring more on eBay than a similar Cosworth I firmly believe, merely because it's so much rarer TODAY)...price guides be damned.
Maybe it should have a separate listing, if one could demonstrate that the GT brings more money.
I'll run some research and see if that's actually the case historically:
Okay! Research shows that the GT brought about $800 average higher than a regular Vega, in the "excellent" category. $9400 vs. $8700 as top dollar for a show car.
So there is a little bump.
It never moved, and is covered with an old tarp, and the only way I know it's a Vega is the wind had blown the tarp off one day and i saw it as we went by, going to the course.
I suspect the owner "thinks" he has a rare bird on his hands, but in reality it's not much more than a rust bucket now, having been sitting in the elements for so long. You see that once in a while around here... Someone has what, in the right hands, could be a restorable, somewhat rare vehicle, but they would rather let it rust away than let someone else have the opportunity to fix it up.
I've never understood folks like that...
I once thought about stopping by to see if he was interested in selling it, but then... Why ask?
I've never understood that, either, but folks 'on the other side' always say, "It's his car, he can do whatever he wants with it".
I understand that, but...sheesh!
The other kind of guy that drives me nuts is the guy who overprices something common or junky in the old-car world, and says, "If I don't get my (inflated) price by the end of the month, I'm going to cut it up/part it out/ let it sit here".
Be my guest! LOL
Oh, come on now, you wouldn't destroy the originality of a legend, would you?
Heck, my neighbor was doing that to them back when I was a kid in the 70's! He used to take them, throw in a 350, and race them.
Problem with the Vega nowadays though, is that really nice ones are so rare that if you do find one, it's a shame to deflower them like that. And the rest of them are probably so rough that it would take a fortune to get them in any kind of condition to accept a powerful engine.
When I was a kid, I didn't like the Vega because they just looked cheap to me. But, with age, I do find myself appreciating the body style more these days. I prefer the '74-77 models though, with the raked-back grille and stronger bumpers. The style of the '71-73 just seems too petite and fragile to me.
I really liked the Chevy Monza and Pontiac Sunbird derivatives though. I thought those were good looking little cars. The Starfire and Skyhawk looked good too, but IMO did not belong in the Olds/Buick lineups.
I agree totally.
The bumpers, outside mirrors, and taillights look 'dollhouse tiny' to me!
I like the '74 and '75 styling best, as I can't stand the yellow taillights on the '76 and '77 although the wagon avoided having those.
I like the '74 and '75 'cooling slots' grille up front, but I've been told if you lean on them, they'll bend!
A '76 wagon with the GT package and side stripes would probably be the best one for me, although as a teenager I wanted a '75 equipped like that.
Most people don't care about Vegas, and in years to come, will care even less...so I'd rather see it as a rat rod, giving pleasure to both driver and observer. I mean, now really, if you paid $20 bucks to get into an automotive museum, would you rush up to the front desk and ask "Quick! Tell me! Where are the Vegas?"
Frankly, I'd find that far more interesting than the '57 Chevy with continental kit and red '65 Mustang that are certain to be there.
My mom had the worst cars in recent history. All of them. A 72 Gremlin, a 73 Pinto, a 1983 Reliant K wagon with burgundy "Rich Corinthian" vinyl. Lastly was the 1990 Festiva, which I begged her not to buy. She thought it was "cute". I thought it was "not". She now drives normal cars; after noticing the psychological trauma she was causing her car-guy son.
In a twist though, that Festiva never ever broke down on her. It went through wheel bearings like crazy. Apparently 12" cheap steel rims with P-145 tires would have been happier on a bicycle.
My parents did a fair job of avoiding the worst of the malaise era. My dad drove a 1970 Mustang until the early 80s, replacing it with a Horizon (must have been a shock) and then a S10 Blazer. Lackluster cars, but neither were really unreliable. My mother drove a land yacht T-Bird until the mid 80s, then cars like Ciera, Tempo, Taurus came into the fold - all of which were fine, if unexciting.
A K-car Town and Country doesn't seem like it would be too unpleasant.
I don't know what to think of my Parent's cars. I remember when I was really young my Dad had a Dodge Dart and my Mom had a Nova with a hole in the floor.
The Nova was replaced with a very early Escort with no air and no radio. My Dad got a Horizon as well, stick w/ air ! We drove in Dad's car.
The Escort gave way to an 85 Dodge Charger that even as a kid remember being broken too often. My Father also got a Charger but his was an 86 Shelby version. I thought that was a cool car as a kid. He wrecked that and had an 87 Shadow Turbo until he passed in 92.
My Mom kept the Charger forever and traded it on a used 92 Caravan 4cyl. Ugh.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I remember the Ciera having very good AC - and a "cricket" in the dash, and wire wheel covers that rattled and drove me insane. The Tempo and Taurus seemed to be from the future compared to the Ciera, with its crisper design and plush 80s GM velour.
One of my earlier car memories is going out to the T-Bird and playing with the zillion way power seats and all of the other junk until the battery drained :shades: