I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

tjc78

One of my earlier car memories is going out to the T-Bird and playing with the zillion way power seats and all of the other junk until the battery drained

I used to enjoy all the gadgets in both my Grandfather's cars. They always had Town Cars and Rivieras growing up. They even had tape decks!

fintail

The rattle on the Ciera was the centers of the wheel cover, the emblem. They would work loose, and would vary with speed. Some would claim they couldn't even hear it, it was faint - but it bugged me.

imidazol97

>tape decks!

8-tracks?

fintail

I remember the Ciera and Horizon only had radios. The Tempo and Taurii had tape decks. I think the S10 Blazer had a tape deck. Tempo had a power drivers seat (which later shorted out while driving) while the first Taurus did not.

And through all of those American cars, my mother now drives...a Camry.

Mr_Shiftright

Ah, bobbing down the highway like a motorboat in your '75 Eldo, listening to the Montovani Orchestra play "Moon River"---it doesn't get much better than that! :P

tjc78

8-tracks?

My 79 Continental had an 8-Track. It actually still worked!

stickguy

not that hard to find. Very original. Not exactly low mile. But, seems usable.

at $400, I could make this the spare car I need! worth it, just to see the look on my daughters face when I brought it home.

Seems that by '77 they had a different engine. is this an iron duke? I know the Monza used that engine. But, at least this is a 4 speed.

every other Vega on Ebay is a pro street, rolling chassis, or Cosworth (including one with 291 miles, for only 26 grand!)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1977-chevy-vega-wagon-/221156605722?pt=US_Cars_Tr- ucks&hash=item337df5ff1a

uplanderguy

That ad says "'77", and that's the '77-only standard interior, but it's had a nose panel from a '74 or '75 put on, which says "accident" (I haven't read the ad description; maybe he admits that).

There are always Cosworths on eBay, including very low mileage ones.

I hate the yellow taillights of the '76, but it's sorta cool that the '76 Cosworth came in any regular Vega color. I remember seeing a used one in around '78 that was dark blue with the gold trim, and white interior with blue dash, carpet, and seat belts. Asking price was $3,500, I do remember that. Big drop from new for sure. I could still enjoy one, just for the 'you don't see those' factor.

The Vega never got the Iron Duke, although the Astre did I believe. The cheapo Monzas that looked exactly like Vegas ('78 and '79) did get the Iron Duke. Pontiac also had a cheapo "Sunbird" that looked just like a Vega/Astre, post-'77.

andre1969

According to my old car encyclopedia, the Vega and Monza used the 2.3 (140 CID) engine through 1977. For 1978, only the Monza remained, and it got the Pontiac 2.5 (151 CID) "Iron Duke".

Pontiac started using the Iron Duke in 1977, where it was standard on the Sunbird and Astre wagon/hatchback, but oddly, the Vega engine was still used in the Astre "sedan" (I struggle to call it a sedan, as it was basically as slick as the hatchback, but just with a tiny trunklid instead of a hatch that encompassed the rear window).

The '77 Olds Starfire also used the Vega 4-cyl, according to this book. But interestingly, the '77 Buick Skyhawk came standard with the 231 V-6.

Y'know, I bet a more modern Buick 231 would be a good tansplant into one of these cars, or a Vega. Much lighter than a V-8, but can still be pretty powerful.

kyfdx

My mother's '72 Lincoln Coupe (not a Town Coupe... lower trim-line), had an AM/8-Track stereo... No FM!!

ab348

Absolutely. Or for that matter, more than the cookie-cutter Porsche 9xx whatevers that people pay ridiculous amounts of money for, just to keep the repair shops in business.

robr2

For 1978, only the Monza remained, and it got the Pontiac 2.5 (151 CID) "Iron Duke".

Couple of things. I never understood why Chevy sold the Vega and the Monza side by side. Any ideas?

My Dad had a 75 Vega that he put about 60K miles on before trading it on a 78 Sunbird. It wasn't a bad car but I distinctly remember the Pontiac dealer really putting the Vega down.

Now the Sunbird had the Iron Duke as did my Dad's next car - an 81 Pontiac Phoenix. Lastly my brother had an 86 Grand Am that had the Iron Duke as well. That engine sure got around.

toomanyfumes

When I was a teenager my Dad had a '84 Firebird with the Iron Duke 4 and a four speed. I usually drove Mom's '85 Caravan with the 2.2 four. It was about as fast as the 'Bird.

berri

I owned an 83 Ciera with an Iron Duke. Worst pig I ever owned. You could be driving on a Midwest Interstate and if it had a little snow and some wind, trying to pass a semi truck was a very long event. It also was a fluid leaker. I won't even get started on the electronics! Let's just say it was instrumental in moving me over to Ford for awhile.

kyfdx

I never understood why Chevy sold the Vega and the Monza side by side. Any ideas?


Monza was the next model up....

Vega = Pinto
Monza = Mustang II

uplanderguy

Exactly, host.

Two high school friends of mine got V8 1975 Monza 2+2's new...and in '75, you still didn't see a ton of them (due to price). Our dealer got his first one in, in February '75. I just thought both cars were terrific looking and it was the first time I saw a car that size with the sound of a V8.

They both ate front brakes though. I could hear them coming a block away.

tjc78

Monza was the next model up....

Vega = Pinto
Monza = Mustang II

Wow, the Mustang II was a step up from something.... :sick:

andre1969

Wow, the Mustang II was a step up from something....

It seems like a sad joke today, but back in the 70's, people tended to fall for that type of marketing. I'll say one thing for the Mustang II...at least it LOOKED a lot better than a Pinto! Nicer interior too, especially if you got one of the upper trim levels (Ghia, etc?)

Similarly, the Monza and its clones definitely seemed like a step up from the Vega. As a kid I hated Vegas because they looked cheap to me, but I thought the Monza was cool, sporty, and exotic looking. Even if it was still just a cheap little car.

When my Mom went car shopping in early 1980, I wanted her to get a Monza, partly because I had a race car track that came with a blue Monza. Unfortunately, my 9-year old mind didn't quite grasp the concept that the "civilian" version of the Monza was going to look just a little different from the race car version.

Mom actually did think about a Monza, because of fuel economy concerns. Also on her list of considerations were a Pontiac LeMans coupe, or an Aspen/Volare wagon. My grandmother's cousin had bought a '79 Volare wagon, that looked pretty sharp in its two-tone black-over-silver paint job, with a red interior. I think Mom liked its trim, compact (for the time) size and versatility.

In the end, she got a 1980 Malibu coupe, which I'm thankful for, because 7 years later, I would be driving age, and she gave it to me. I have a feeling the Monza would've been crapped out by 1987. And no high school kid at the time would have been caught dead in a station wagon, although some of them probably think they're cool now, because they're such an artifact. And I always thought the LeMans of that era looked kinda ugly compared to the Malibu. Plus, the LeMans would've had the 231 V-6, whereas the Malibu had the less torquey, but more durable Chevy 229.

uplanderguy

When Monzas came out, they were expensive. They were only introduced as the 2+2 (hatchback), and the base price was over $3,900. Both my friends' cars stickered at $4,800-odd, with V8, AT, PS and PB. '75 Impala sedans at our dealer also stickered at $4,800, w/o A/C (which my friends' Monzas didn't have, either). The Camaro started $300 less.

Mid-year brought out the Towne Coupe, and later a decontented "S' model of the 2+2 came out.

andre1969

Wow, that is pretty expensive! For comparison, in 1975, my Mom bought a new LeMans for about $5,000. And that's also about what my grandparents paid for their '75 Dart Swinger hardtop. Both were auto/ac cars, although the Dart just had a 225 slant six, while the LeMans had a Pontiac 350-2bbl.

I keep forgetting that they offered that cheaper model with the single round headlights, right up through 1980 according to the sales brochure. Those really don't stick out from childhood memories, so I'm guessing that the vast majority of the hatchbacks were the quad-headlight model? Seems like they were all over the place. You hardly ever saw those formal Towne Coupes either, it seems.

With the Pontiac Sunbird, it seems like the more formal coupe style was more common.

lemko

My Grandmom replaced her awful 1973 Vega with a new 1980 Chevrolet Monza that was a color similar to my Brougham with a brown landau roof and body colored wheels. I don't remember much about this car as I never rode in it or know what kind of engine it had. My grandparents got rid of the car sometime in the 1990s and just drove Grandpop's 1989 Caprice after that.

Here's a car similar to Grandmom's ride except in a different color:

uplanderguy

A dark blue '63 Corvair Monza Convertible with white top (sorry, wrong generation "Monza" from what we'd been talking about!). It looked great and ran quietly, from where I was in my upstairs 'perch'.

I am almost certain it was the same car my wife and I looked at a good decade ago at a used car dealer in the next town over. I haven't seen it since, until just now.

Back to my two high school friends with the V8 '75 Monza 2+2's, both stickering at $4,800-odd--one was orange with brown cloth and vinyl buckets, and the other was bright red with sandalwood vinyl interior. The orange one had sport mirrors which looked great but were almost useless with the low beltline of the car, and the red one had the dorky but more useful chrome mirror that stood way up. The orange one looked like crap in five PA winters--the family's cars all looked like that. The red one is still in the garage of my other high-school friend and in fact he is the one who also owns the '75 Cosworth Vega I mentioned earlier. Over the years he added the factory aluminum wheels to his car. I don't know that he's driven it in a couple decades though.

Both cars had the wheelcovers lemko shows in the later Monza, above. Chevy called them "Tromphe L'Oeil" (fool the eye), but on '75's they had a propensity to come off. I believe clips were changed on later cars per my friend with the red car.

uplanderguy

Plus, the LeMans would've had the 231 V-6, whereas the Malibu had the less torquey, but more durable Chevy 229.

My parents had a new dark green metallic (like 'army green', much like recent Camrys...I like the color), gold paint factory pinstripe, '80 Monte Carlo with the 229. Besides being slow, I hated the sounds it made, but I don't think it was as rough as a 231.

When I bought a new Monte Carlo right out of college, in Jan. '81, I wanted a V8. I knew the 267 wasn't a hot rod, but it sounded and idled like a V8!

One thing I hated on Malibu and Monte Carlo dashes from '78 to '80, was that if you didn't get AC, you got a big square of plain plastic pushed into the hole on the right side of the dash where the AC vent would be. My folks' '80, no AC, actually had a vent there...but it did nothing! It looked better than the plastic square insert though. I remember my Dad saying once, "nothing is coming out of here". I explained to him that it was a goof on the line, but I'm not sure he bought it.

andre1969

One thing I hated on Malibu and Monte Carlo dashes from '78 to '80, was that if you didn't get AC, you got a big square of plain plastic pushed into the hole on the right side of the dash where the AC vent would be.

Yeah, I remember seeing those, although my Mom's '80 Malibu at least had a/c. I still see a Malibu from time to time at various car shows with no a/c, and that square plastic cover.

So, for '81 on up, what did they do with the cars with no a/c? Just give you dummy vents?

Also, I wonder what they did with the LeMans/Grand Prix, Century/Regal, and Cutlass if you didn't get a/c? Did they eliminate some of the vents in the dash as well?

uplanderguy

Good question on the B-O-P cars without AC--I think they may have just extended the trim panel (black or woodgrain) over where the vent would be with AC.

In '81 and later Monte Carlos and Malibus, they added a large, horizontal trim piece (piano black on Malibu Classics without gauges; woodgrain on Montes and Malibu Classics with gauges; interior-color plastic insert on plain Malibus) that covered where the AC vent would be on the right side of the dash.

My '81 Monte 267 had no air (but had tilt wheel, posi, and intermittent wipers and two-tone paint!) and had the big woodgrain panel there. You could pull it out in a second by tugging on the area near the vents in the center of the dash. The thing was probably thirty inches long! I used to do it to freak people out, usually girls--I'd pull that panel out and say "Will you hold this for a minute?"

fintail

Waiting for my ride at the airport, saw a mint looking MB W114/115, in an period creamy beige color. Then saw a nice enough 1st gen Celica fastback.

I just wish fat SUVs and useless jacked up pickups were more obscure here than where I just was.

ab348

Our '78 Grand Lemans Safari did not have A/C and IIRC the 2 sets of twin vents at either end of the dash used blanks that had lookalike louvers molded into them but which were just a solid round blockoff plate.

In contrast, the old '78 Olds Delta 88 I owned that didn't have A/C used a woodgrain blockoff plate on the drivers side and a dummy louver blockoff on the passenger side.

fintail

A sunroof ponton is rare, and is a desirable option. They could be had that way from the factory, I believe - and there were aftermarket companies too. I have even seen an early fintail with a long webasto-style sunroof,

uplanderguy

My dealer friend had told me that those Benzes could be had from the factory with the Golde sunroof...same as my Lark...and he figured that's where Studebaker sourced their sunroofs since M-B was a division of Studebaker in the U.S.

explorerx4

My BIL mentioned to me that he saw a 60's Ferrari in PA while heading east to CT, the other day.
I asked him if he could tell what state it was from and he said 'New Jersey'! It was red.

fintail

A quick search reveals the Golde company actually comes from Germany, so maybe that's not a coincidence indeed.

fintail

Random highlight from Sinsheim - unrestored pillarless/hardtop 540K:



Yes, please.

busiris

Pretty good article on the history of MB and Studebaker's "union", so to speak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studebaker

kyfdx

Came up on a car from the rear on the freeway... Was positive that it was a '70-'72 Camaro, but that wasn't quite it....

Had a DeTomaso badge on it... Definitely a different profile than a Camaro.... but, once I passed it, the front end, again.. looked like a Camaro..

What the heck did I see? :confuse:

uplanderguy

Andre, was your Mom's '80 Malibu a Malibu Classic, or just Malibu? What color?

There were a couple things I liked that they did in '80 to the Malibu.

The Classic cloth interior, while similar to '79, had perforations in the cloth, and a navy blue and dark plum color cloth were available which IMHO looked very rich.

They also added a black trim strip across the right half of the dash, which I liked.

A small thing I didn't like (OCD me!) was that instead of having a dash nameplate that mimicked the one on the side of the car--with "Malibu" written over "Classic"--the dash nameplate had "Malibu Classic" written with the two words right next to each other.

I know it's minor!

stickguy

My SIL is here for Turkey day, and was talking about her ordeal up on Long Island. She lives in Oceanside, and her neighborhood was flooded (they had 5 feet of water in the house, and she is 2 blocks from the bay). 2 weeks to get power back, lots of damage, etc.

But what I had not thought of is how many cars, especially classic/collector, were lost, since a lot of people had them in their garage, and had to abandon the house quickly.

Her next door neighbor has (had) a gorgeous gen 1 M3 that is now totaled. She was talking to a wrecker guy, who said they pulled out a ton of really nice car (being a wealthy area) that were now wrecks. Some of which were totally submerged, and with salty "black water" no less.

She (foolishly) stayed in her house, and had a picture of an SUV parked out front, that had been completely submerged at one point. Truly amazing how quickly the water came in, and went back out.

her MSX was actually OK, because she had the forethought to park it a few blocks inland, and it just ended up with water up the bottom of the tires (but I think short of the brakes, though she is having it serviced this weekend and checking those)/

stickguy

most likely a Pantera, though I don't think I would confuse it with a Camaro!

andys120

Came up on a car from the rear on the freeway... Was positive that it was a '70-'72 Camaro, but that wasn't quite it....

Had a DeTomaso badge on it... Definitely a different profile than a Camaro.... but, once I passed it, the front end, again.. looked like a Camaro..

What the heck did I see?

deTomaso Longchamp?



It doesn't look much like a '70 Camaro to me but it's the closest resemblance for a deTomaso.

kyfdx

Yeah... I searched Google images.... nothing close...

I'll take a picture, next time... lol..

fintail

Last night saw an immaculate looking 67-68 T-Bird sedan, period gold with a white top. Not many of those in such nice condition. Also a first gen Probe.

Mr_Shiftright

a marriage of convenience, to be sure. Pretty good article, as it mentions Studebakers' hoodwinking of Packard, and the Curtiss-Wright pillaging. Also astute in noting that Studebaker (as well as the other Independents) were already doomed by the early 1950s.

stickguy

was out this morning (no, not to shop!) and passed on the road a nice red Lotus Esprit. Looked like an earlier one, without any tacked on plastic.

Mr_Shiftright

Series 1 Esprit probably--no side cladding, Fiat X1/9 tail lights, and a front air dam scoopy-doo. Nice lookin' but not very fast.

uplanderguy

By '56, S-P was doing terribly. They had a $43 million loss in '56.

With the sale of the Packard E. Grand Boulevard facility (for $750K I remember reading someplace years back), and the discontinuation of Packard and Clipper vehicles, and with relatively unchanged Studebaker products for 1957, the loss was reduced to $11 million. It rose to $13 million in '58, and in '59 they made their largest one-year profit ever...$28 million.

S-P's President, James Nance, who left in '56, went on to run the Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln division. In 1960 he was out of a job again and went to run a bank in Cleveland, which he did for well past the normal retirement age. His last year-round residence was in Chagrin Falls, OH, not far from me at all (but a nicer address!).

An excellent read on the merger years is "The Fall of the Packard Motor Car Company", by James Ward. It was researched with personal papers of Nance and also through the board minutes and voluminous records of that period on hand at the Archives of the Studebaker National Museum.

As a side note, I was looking through production paperwork for '56 Golden Hawks in South Bend once, and saw a handwritten notation on the bottom of one build sheet that said "Mrs. Nance". I thought that was interesting.

fintail

Another random image from Europe:



Unrestored 300SC at Sinsheim. Holding off on the urge to restore it has probably paid off, as survivors are desirable now and this could probably win preservation class awards. Very rare car (maybe 50 built) worth a nice pile of cash.

Also notable that this car with prewar looks probably dates from 1957.

jrosasmc

Thought you might want to have a look at this rare beast:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1976-Lancia-Scorpion-original-condition-/12102441- 1921?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item1c2d9df911

How much are Scorpions on the market anyway - i.e., what's the most they can bring? I have only seen three in my lifetime, and one of them had significant rust on it. I can't imagine that they'd be any more durable than Mercedes or Volvos of the same vintage. I've also heard that these cars can lock up the brakes in the wet if executing a panic stop.

I'll bet my '91 Volvo 740 can blow any stock Scorpion away :P

fintail

Condition is amazing, but I've read nothing but bad about them.

I bet it's not even terribly faster than my fintail.

Mr_Shiftright

Very rare indeed, but as you imply, not particularly valuable or desirable. It's basically just a tarted up Fiat, not a "real' Lancia anymore. Think of it as a Fiat X1/9s bigger brother.

Not particularly fast (I think it's only 1.8L) and full of defects, worst among them susceptibility to rust so severe the car could literally fall to pieces.

Later Scorpions had some racing successes but these were so unlike the production cars it's hard to even make a comparison.

Best one in the world, in stunning like-new condition? Maybe $9,000 bucks on a good day. The eBay seller seems optimistic enough to ask $7600 for an unrestored clean one, which I guess is possible---but if that's a real $5000 bid, he should take it IMO.

fintail

Rare dry partly sunny day here, have seen a 67 Mustang, ~55 Ford pickup, nice condition big baroque 70s Monte Carlo, and a W123 coupe so far. Drove the fintail, started right up after sitting for a month, always makes me smile.

uplanderguy

I'm missing owning an old car in the worst way. But, with a $13K tuition bill due 12/12, I'm still glad I sold my old Stude when I did. I don't know that I can go on for real long like this though!