2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

fishgreg1

kydx,

 

We went to lease the 325xi today, but before we did test drove the 330xi. What a great car! Really like it better than the 325xi. MSRP on 330xi is $42,850 and dealer is offering it at $39,000, which they say is below cost. Lease for 36mos/15k miles a year is $450.00 (includes sales tax), with $2843 total out of pocket down. This seems like an excellent deal - what do you think? Thanks for all of the help you have been - we will be probably be leasing this car on Monday once we get your valuable leasing input

coby03

Thanks kyfdx. I'm going to see if he'll come down a little so it will be closer to the TL, which I can get for $476/mo (3/36) for the same total out-of-pocket as the 330 Ci w/ZHP. It's not a bad position to be in - I like the ride of the BMW a little better than the TL, but not necessarily $30/mo more. The TL's not a bad fall-back if he won't budge on price of the Ci.

cstidham

kyfdx,

 

Do you have the residual and MF for a 325i for 36mo/15k?

 

Thanks in advance.

jvd412

If the "new" vehicle has more than 30 miles, the dealer should inform you of the car's mileage.

 

To find out the mileage on a car at another dealer the salesman can make a call and have the info in 5 min.

mitchellrowe

is the $ 3800 factory to dealer cash only on the 330i,& $ 2000 on the 325i...with NO CASH on the 330xi or 325xi ?

 

mitchell rowe

kal

Kyfdx,

Thanks for crunching the numbers; I believe the tax is 7.6%. I will try to get a detailed accounting of how they came up with the $647.81 monthly payment (which is inclusive of the tax).

I will also see if he is willing to lower the MF to .0015 if I agree to pay an acquisition fee.

 

By the way, he is going to throw in mats and window tinting (I am pushing for a new ceramic type of tint which is reportedly the latest and best technology- it apparently costs ~$300).

 

Lastly, do you have any thoughts on the 6 sp transmission vs Steptronic? I have a 5 sp but have not driven the 6 sp or the Steptronic; I will try to get to the dealer to test drive both of them if possible.

Thanks for all your help,

mdkrp

kyfdx

Your deal looks pretty good.. I estimated a payment of about $490/mo. + tax with only first payment and security deposit upfront.. About $1200 total at signing...

 

Your deal, even with the larger upfront is within a couple hundred dollars total of that, but I'd want to know a breakdown of those upfront costs. The implied interest rate is only about 2.4%, so I'd want as much in the payment as possible, and less upfront..

 

Something like $1300 upfront and a payment of $495/mo..

 

To recap.. the deal is great.. but get some of that upfront into the payment.. It doesn't matter to the dealer either way..

 

regards,

kyfdx

kyfdx

For $30/mo, I'd take the 330Ci... You'll make that up on the included scheduled maintenance..

 

regards,

kyfdx

kyfdx

56% residual

.00225 money factor

 

Don't forget the $2500 dealer cash, and take that amount into account when negotiating a selling price.

 

regards,

kyfdx

kyfdx

You have it.. the incentive is only on the RWD sedans..

kyfdx

If you like the 5-speed manual, then the six-speed will be much the same..

 

If all the drivers of the car like manual transmission, then that is the way I would go.. Especially if leasing.. You'll save money from the lower MSRP, with no problems of a lower value on re-sale, because you are leasing.

 

regards,

kyfdx

pec1970

Can someone help me decipher the lease terms offered me for a 2 year 10K lease on a 330cic with $5K down? I asked the salesman and I think I knew more than he did; he did give me the printout with the following:

 

Selling Price: $49,345 (msrp)

Less cap reduct: $3137.85

Down pymt: $5000

Acq fee: $825

Adds to cap cost; $825

NET CAP COST: $ 48,620.63

 

What is the cap reduction? And how did they they get to $48,620.63?

 

I understood the rest (sales tax, security dep and license. The money factor is .00190.

 

Also if appropriate in the forum, any recommendation on best BMW dealer in the DC area for sales and service? I live in Arlington and work in Rockville and have visited the dealers in those cities so far.

Thanks.

kyfdx

Just to get this out of the way..this might be the worst lease deal in history..

 

Selling price $49,345

minus cap cost reduction -$3137.85

plus acquisition fee +$825

should equal cap cost $47,032.15

 

Their cap cost is $1600 higher.. maybe tax is added in upfront? Don't know..

 

The difference between your cap cost reduction and the $5000 due at signing is likely your first payment and security deposit, plus title/licensing fees..

 

A few points...

 

1) Nobody pays MSRP for the selling price.. Recent posts in this forum suggest $1900-$2000 off MSRP.

 

2) The base money factor is .0015, not .0019.. .0019 is the MAXIMUM that BMWFS lets them mark up the rate.

 

3) The base acquisition fee if $625, not $825.. Again, they are marking it up the maximum.

 

4) I think the residual for that term is 74%.. though not positive..

 

5) Never make a cap cost reduction on a lease.. Just first payment and security deposit.

 

It should look like this:

MSRP $49,345

Selling price $47,845 ($1500 off..conservative)

CAP cost $48,470 (selling price plus acq.fee)

Residual 74%

Money factor .0015

2yr/20K -payment $644 + tax

Due at signing: 1st payment, security deposit, title/licensing fees.. (approx. $1600-$1700)

 

3yr/30K -payment $602 + tax

64% residual (I know this is correct)

Same due at signing.

 

regards,

kyfdx

pec1970

Thank you kyfdx. My whole experience at that dealership was negative. I am glad I walked out of there. One more question for you; should I negotiate the lower base price first and then get the lease terms?

kyfdx

In general, yes... Some people say that you should never let them know you are leasing, until after you have negotiated a price.. But, I always like to let them know that I expect to lease at the base rates, after I've negotiated the price.. That seems to keep them from giving me lowball prices, that they plan to make up for later with bumped up lease numbers..

 

I think you'll find the 3 year lease numbers a little better, unless there is some other reason for leasing for two years...

michael4435

you're right -- looks like he's trying to move the car with SMG. I test drove it but I am not crazy about the SMG. The he showed me one with a Steptronic -- nice handling. MSRP is around $53,065 (fully loaded except it doesn't have 6-CD changer) but he's offering a $1,000 discount. Doesn't sound like a great deal.

 

Any ideas on what I should offer? I was thinking along the lines of $51,000 with the CD changer thrown in. That would be about $2K under MSRP and another $500 for the CD changer so my "discount" would be about $2,500. Do you have any better suggestions? Any help would be mucho appreciated as I'm totally psyched about this car and would love to drive it off the lot this week! :-)

labuyer

OK, it's always a risky business trying to predict the future, but let's have a go at it.

 

Is there any information on likely pricing for the new 2006 325? Is MSRP anticipated to stay around current MSRP?

 

Also, is it relatively safe to presume that the new cars will sell for pretty close to MSRP, in contrast to the current discounts?

 

What I'm getting at is the choice between a discounted 2005 330i vs. a probably full-price 2006 325.... Any thoughts are welcome.

ursa major

The car doesn't have a cassette player as far as I can determine, nor is one available. The CD in dash is limited to one disc, with the option of a trunk-situated unit holding 6 more. That option retails for 900. Seems very primitive, like I remember that design in '85. Question is whether custom sound is desirable, available, and can it be imbedded in a lease payment. Santa Monica CA BMW quoted me .0028 MF with $ 1500 off of MSRP, mo. pmt. $ 699 incl. tax. I went to the Internet and got several quotes which were lower, the best being $ $ 548 incl. tax for a 3yr/10k m/yr. lease, minimum drive off, no options other than leather, lumbar, folding rear seats. I was also told there was a final build on the "old 330i" for March delivery, but I might lose the dealer cash element. I am close to a lease, but hate to tolerate an inadequate sound scheme vs. Infiniti, Lexus, and Acura, all of which have the 6CD-in-dash and casette player. Any thoughts on sound upgrade and cost for that?

kyfdx

You should be able to get it for $51K.. not sure you'll get a CD changer thrown in for that, though...

kyfdx

It all depends on what is important to you.. Since you can buy a fairly loaded '05 330i with an MSRP of $42K for around $36K, that is probably cheaper than a loaded '06 325i..

 

My '03 325i with sport/premium/xenons, etc.. had an MSRP of $38,145.. So, figure at least $39K for a nicely equipped '06 325i...

 

From a value standpoint, I'd go with the current 330i.. But, it bothers some people to have the old body style.. I'm not one of those people.

 

regards,

kyfdx

kyfdx

If you are leasing, upgrading the audio is not realistically cost-effective..

 

If this is a major sticking point for you, I'd look at a different car..

 

And your lease deal? Read back a couple of hundred posts.. that is terrible....

 

regards,

kyfdx

fishgreg1

Hi Kyfdx,

 

If I were to buy additional miles to the above lease we talked about how much would that be per mile. Right now we are at 15k a year, what would it be to go to 16k a year or 18k a year? Is it cheaper to buy the mileage up front or at lease end?

 

Thanks,

 

Greg

kyfdx

Extra miles on a BMW are expensive.. I don't follow this closely, but I'll tell you the latest info that I have heard..

 

At lease end, miles are $0.20/each..

 

Disadvantage: expensive

Advantage: You don't have to spend the money until lease end, and you don't buy more miles than you need.

 

Upfront or during lease term, miles are $0.16/each.

 

Advantage: cheaper per mile, you can buy them up until 6 months or so before lease ends.

Disadvantage: If you buy too far ahead, you may pay for miles you don't use.. if you buy at lease inception, you can roll it into monthly payment, but you are paying interest on that amount, and paying for it ahead of time..

 

If you think you can keep mileage to 16K/year, I wouldn't purchase in advance.. wait until the last year of the lease, and then buy the miles.. that way, you'll have a better idea of how many you need..

 

If you need over 16.6K/year, then leasing might not be a great idea... I wouldn't want my BMW to come out of warranty while I was leasing it.

 

I've leased a couple of Hondas for 54K miles.. but, I wouldn't take that chance with a BMW.

 

regards,

kyfdx

michael4435

thanks... I'm going to offer that today...

 

Also, I noticed that the car has 117 miles on it even though the dealer claimed they received it 5 days ago... is this normal? seems high to me... do you think I have any leverage with the dealer about the mileage on the car?

kyfdx

Realistically.. no leverage... 117 miles might seem important to the purchaser, but to the dealer, it is a non-event... Maybe they'll throw in floormats ($125)? Didn't know those were extra, huh? lol

rodist

Hi kyfdx,

I love my Honda Pilot. I like Honda's in general.

Anyway, I was doing the math of for that 3yr/30K lease on the 330cic and came up a different.

I was wondering where I went wrong so I can fix my spreadsheet I created for leasing.

 

MSRP $49,345

Selling price $47,845 ($1500 off..conservative)

CAP cost $48,470 (selling price plus acq.fee)

Residual 64%

Money factor .0015

 

Depreciation Fee:

Residual = 64% of $49,345 = 31,580

(Net Cap 48,470 - Residual $31,580) = 16,889

Divided by 36 months = $ 469.14

 

Finance Fee: MF = .0015

(Net Cap $48,470 + Residual $31,580) = $80,050

$80,050 x MF .0015 = 120.07

 

120.07 + 469.14 = $589.84 (No tax)

 

Where did I go wrong?

 

Thanks!

kyfdx

I'll be real honest.. I use a program...

 

But, I can also do it with simple math... And, your math comes out right.. I'm looking for a different lease program, to double check this one.. Haven't found one yet..

 

I usually check about 10% of these quotes, to make sure there are no anomalies... This is the first one I've found that hasn't matched up.. I'll work on it, though..

 

regards,

kyfdx

nyccarguy

buying extra mileage on your BMW beforehand is also expensive because the more miles you buy, the more the residual value of the car drops, hence increasing your lease payment. I'd take out a 15K per year lease and then buy the extra miles when the lease term is near ending.

kyfdx

I keep running different numbers through my lease program.. and comparing it with the rudimentary program here on Edmunds...

 

Everything on MSRPs of $40K and below seem fine.. but, getting weird numbers on MSRPs up around $50K... Your spreadsheet is correct.. My program is giving me some bad numbers..

rodist

I'm relieved that my numbers come up right.

I'm currently in negotiations and hope I can catch any discrepencies the dealer tries to slip past me.

 

Do you use ALG for your residuals and MF?

I'm thinking of aigning up with them so I don't have to bother you all the time for those.

michael4435

No, I didn't know the floormats are extra!! LOL! And all the other bells and whistles they are trying to sell me (alarm system, upgrade maintenance package, armor all or something like that)...

 

Anyway, this is the "final" deal I've negotiated (I haven't put any money down yet):

 

2005 330ci convertible

orient metallic blue

matching blue softtop

on-board navigation system

steptronic 5-speed automatic

18" double alloy wheels

adaptive xenon headlights

sports package

BMW assist package

heated front seats

park distance control

 

including destination, MSRP is $53,065 and invoice per Edmund's is $48,590. I got him to $51,200 with floormats thrown in! That would be about $1,865 under MSRP and $2,610 over invoice.

 

Questions:

1) what do you guys think? good deal or not?

2) got 4.65% financing for 60 months. is that good?

3) the dealer tried to add the MACO into the price -- is that allowed? common?

4) I also have a concern that the spare is just a regular spare even though I'm paying for 18" double alloy. Should I ask for an 18" double alloy spare too? How good are these tires anyway?

5) any comments on all these extras they want to sell you? $1395 for upgrading the maintenance package from 4/50 to 6/100? $500 for the alarm system? the "touch of class" package? the protection plan (armor all?)?

 

you guys have a been a big help! thank you again and again! I'll have to upload a picture of me and the new car when I finanlly get it! :-)

kyfdx

1) That seems to be the going rate... $1900-$2000 under MSRP. Seems fair.

 

2) I haven't followed financing that closely, but 4.65% seems reasonable, also

 

3) He tried to add MACO after you negotiated a price? MACO is part of the dealer's invoice.. Unless you negotitated a set amount over invoice, then his costs are none of your business, or your obligation to pay.. That is just a BS move, if so... If you negotiated $51,200, then that should be it.

 

4) The 17" spare is the same overall diameter as your 18".. So, it will work on any wheel.. The only drawback is if you damage a wheel, your spare won't match, and you'll have to buy a new wheel.. but, its either then or now.. I'm sure they won't swap the spare for an 18" without charging you more.. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

5) You can buy that maintenance extension at any time before your 4yr/50K is up... Anything can happen in the meantime.. no need to buy it now.. Alarm is of limited value.. you already have an engine immobilizer.. the only way to steal your car is to flatbed it.. The mop-n-glo is never worth it.

 

Try to get out of there for just $51,200 plus tax and tags.. $2600 profit should be plenty.. Don't let them nickel and dime you for any more.

 

regards,

kyfdx

 

Are those style 71 wheels? Those are the best for a 3-series..

rroyce10

....... The price and the rate seem ok ..... (depending on where you live) when the weather breaks in another 8/9 weeks it will look like a "flat" steal, not much discounting on 330Ci convertibles on warm sunny days .... enjoy.!

 

                                 Terry.

mjday1972

Edmunds and others state there is $2500 manufacturer to dealer support on 325s that expires 2/28. Anyone know if that will continue to March?

kyfdx

Nope...no one knows... I doubt it will end, but sometimes they go back and forth... If it does end, they probably will replace it with lease incentives..

 

If you aren't interested in leasing, the only sure thing is to get it before March..

michael4435

I was wrong -- the MACO was added into the invoice price bringing it to $49,020 so I paid $2,180 over invoice but he threw in the floormats so I figure I paid slightly more than $2K over invoice.

 

Yes, those are style 71 wheels.

 

Thanks for your help on question 5. I didn't know I could buy the extension any time before my 4/50 is up. I also didn't realize you really don't need any of the other stuff they are pushing!

 

Again, thank you guys very much for all your help!!

ursamajor

Of course, the clown who quoted a MF of .0028 was a thief. Now I have the following proposal:

 

2005 300i, fold-down rear seats, Premium package (leather, 12-way driver's seat, lumbar, etc.), Xenon lights. Cap. cost $ 36595, $ 5400 under MSRP, MF .0015, residual .56 or $ 23,262, 3-year lease with 10K miles/year, drive off approx. $ 1580 (bank fee, one month lease, CA license). I calculate the payment to be $ 460/mo + CA sales tax, being quoted $ 550. Something wrong here. Would appreciate your view of this. Thanks for all of your effort. You are an asset to this thread.

kyfdx

Money factor on the 330i sedan is .00225..

 

You should be able to do about $500-$600 better on the selling price though.. I'd shoot for $6000 under MSRP, considering the $3800 incentive..

 

regards,

kyfdx

ursamajor

and the vehicle is the same, a 330i sedan. I agree that the $ 6k discount is available, but I am getting a favor or two from the leasing agent I am working with, and he's done leases for my clients, so I'm not going to beat him up for a monthly difference of $ 15. I am concerned whether you arrived at the same monthly lease payment I calculated. Thanks again.

pjt

kyfdx:

I have a quick question to clarify how lease depreciation is calculated: Is it the "Vehicle Selling Price - "Residual Value" OR "Cap Cost" - "Residual Value". In other words, is the value of the Cap Cost adds, i.e., Acquisition Fee, depreciated over the lease term? I believe that it is, otherwise there's no other mechanism in the lease calculation for the dealer to recover these costs. I'm simply looking for affirmation. Thanks. pjt

ursamajor

The MF is .00225 with a security deposit, .0024 without. I had asked the leasing agent to look for either an xi or i.The 330xi has a .0015 rate with no dealer cash rebate. Oddly enough, that more or less equalizes the monthly payments on the i and xi, but I'm told there are no front-folding rear seats in the xi. Thanks for your help.

paule

That's incorrect on the folding rear seats on an xi. I have an '05 325xi and purchased the rear folding seats as a stand alone option.

They are also included in the cold weather package.

fovea

I am interested in buying the following Titanium Silver 325i

-Premium Package

-Leather

-Xenon

-Automatic

-Fold Down seats

 

MSRP 36,670

Invoice 33,660

TMV 33999

 

My questions are:

1) Is the MACO and training fee included in the Edmund's Invoice price or is it in the TMV price?

 

2) Is the 2500 Cash to Dealer already included in the TMV price or should I subtract that from the invoice price when negotiating?

 

3) If the dealer is getting the car from another city should I expect to have pay extra for that? He said they may be able to do a dealer trade, which wouldn't cost him, but if that wasn't possible it would cost him around 300 dollars

 

4) Would a fair offer be = invoice (33,660) -cash to dealer (2500) +MACO/TF (500) + dealer profit (500) or is it best to just offer the TMV?

 

Thanks in advance!

mjday1972

Does anyone know what is the inventory situation with the 2005 3 series given the introduction of the 2006 in May? Will dealers receive more than what they currently have or is this it?

 

I'm considering purchasing a 2005 soon if I can get a good deal (which it sounds like I can), but I wanted to wait until March or April before I pull the trigger.

 

Thanks for the input!

 

Mike

peakpro

I am looking at a 2004 CPOedm325ciC with 5500 miles, witht the following options:

 

Premium Package

Heated Front Seats

Xenon Headlights

Sport Package

BMW Assist

Black Soft Top

metallic paint.

Harman-kardon Sound System

 

Dealer is asking 39K..

 

Is that a fair price?

 

thank you

kyfdx

Depreciation is (CAP cost - residual value)..

 

CAP cost is analogous to "amount financed" on a regular car loan.. your analysis is correct.

kyfdx

paule is correct..

 

Folding rear seats are a stand-alone option.. or included in the cold weather package..

kyfdx

1) The training fee ($160?) is included in the Edmunds invoice price.. it is broken out separately on the BMW invoice, but it adds up the same.. MACO varies by location, so that amount isn't included on the Edmunds invoice.

 

2) I'm not sure how Edmunds calculates TMV.. I don't pay much attention to it.. Figure out your prices in advance, then never mention invoice, MACO, training fee, TMV, etc.. Offer a few hundred less than what you think is a fair price, then go from there..

 

3) If the dealer says a trade doesn't cost him.. then he must be trading for a car that is still at port, or on the way to port.. In that case, he just trades a car that he has on the way in to another dealer, and your car is delivered directly to the dealer from port.. I think the cost comes in, if he has to physically trade a car from his lot to another dealer.. $300 seems reasonable.. that would be an individual dealer decision..

 

4) A good deal is Invoice - $2500 + profit ($800-$1200).. That would be about $31,960-$32,360..

 

Keep your offers in real dollars.. Maybe start them around $31,600 + tax/title only.. Make it simple..

 

regards,

kyfdx

kal

My local dealer told me that the new aquisition fee for leasing is now $825 and this is set by BMWFS. Does anyone have any info on this? if it is correct then it seems quite high. Also is this fee negotiatable or waivable by dealer or BMSFS?
Thanks for any inpt.

kyfdx

Assuming you aren't in New York..

The old fee was $525.. this was raised on January 1st to $625...

BMWFS allows the dealer to mark-up the rate by $200.. It appears your dealer is doing this.. pure profit on their end... adjust your offer accordingly..

And, it most likely means they are marking up the money factor as well..

regards,
kyfdx