2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

irishprincess

Hi,

I am in the process of leasing my first BMW. I have been looking at a 325xi automatic with premium package, heated and leather seats. Not sure about xenons yet. What type of monthly payment should I be looking for? and how much down? I need a 15,000 mile lease. I was also wondering do you get the incentives on a car if you are leasing? and if so should I be looking at a 330xi due to the $4000 incentive? Thanks!

blueguydotcom

With a 4200 incentive and if you can get the dealer down to 400-800 over invoice (before subtracting the incentive) you'll be in tremendous shape on a lease. Lease residuals are figured off the msrp.

MSRP = 40k
Residual .53
Cap = 34k
Depreciation = 11,740
Money factor = 0.0021
Tax = 7% (I don't know your tax, so I put in 7%)
36 month lease

Grand total (not including title, drive off fees sec) = 475

Ouch, seems a little spendy but not too bad. The low residual and high money factor are what make the deal not so hot.

dl7265

My 2C . In Dallas market unfortunatly 325 has become common as a accord . A 330 quite a bit more rare. My eyeball test says maybe 1-7. So taking kyfdx advise I would think a well optioned/colors would be Important far as resale is concerned in the 325, less so in 330 form Depending on how well the E90 does.

Remember with improved hp the New N52 engine still has considerable less torque than current 330.Also sadly there is no improved headroom/legroom with the E90 as hoped. In addition my former 323i never achieved the mpg that Mr Shipo's 328i got. So the smaller motor is not necessarily more fuel efficient.

DL

kyfdx

Sounds good in theory... In reality, the 325i has always held it's value better than the 330i.. I don't have any really good reasoning, other than those looking for used cars are more price sensitive..

The only guys that notice whether it is a 325i or 330i, are the ones that drive a 330i.. ;-)

For resale, you need a moonroof and automatic, a popular color.. For fun, you need a stick and sport package..

But, if you are leasing, just get what you want, and let BMWFS worry about the resale value....

regards,
kyfdx
(who notices what it says on the trunk)

dl7265

Sounds good in theory... In reality, the 325i has always held it's value better than the 330i.. I don't have any really good reasoning, other than those looking for used cars are more price sensitive..

Good point. However.. maybe it's a region thing but what ive seen here is that from private sales to CPO a clean 330i get's big premium. Maybe less so that the original spread. Perhaps in the Snow belt a CWP 325i is more desirable than the 330i...

DL

kyfdx

I'm going off of BMWFS residuals...

In almost every case, the 325i has higher residuals by at least 3%.. At least for the last three years that I have been following them..

I'm sure that varies.. but, it is probably the case for most cars that offer different levels of trim and power.. 4 cyl. Accords have higher percentage residuals than the 6 cylinder models.. etc,etc...

regards,
kyfdx

dl7265

released today .

325i 315 36/10k
325xi 359 36/10k

DL

kyfdx

With $2500 down, I'm sure..

You can always beat the advertised BMW leases with a little negotiation.. The lease numbers aren't any different than what they have had all month.. The only thing new is the advertisement.. It is a good time to lease a 3-series, though..

regards,
kyfdx

dl7265

Are the residuals very good tho ? As compaired to the 63-62% on the 5 ?

DL

kyfdx

Well.... not really.. all of the incentive is in the dealer cash.. But, the low purchase price still translates into low lease payments... with the added plus of a lower purchase price at end of lease, if that is the way you want to go..

I sure wouldn't be interested in buying a 5-series at lease end, with those high residuals.. Although the lease prices are great...

regards,
kyfdx

blueguydotcom

With $2500 down, I'm sure..

You can always beat the advertised BMW leases with a little negotiation.. The lease numbers aren't any different than what they have had all month.. The only thing new is the advertisement.. It is a good time to lease a 3-series, though..


Really, those residuals and MF numbers look awful to me?

53%?! Egad. mf of 24!

kyfdx

Well... if your purchase price is only 85% of MSRP, then 53% is pretty good.. That is only 32% of MSRP depreciation in 36 months.. That translates into a low lease payment... Even with the .00225 MF...

mmbond

can u give an example of a good negotiation with the current lease deal of $2500 325i at $315 per mo?

djocks

can anyone tell me advantages with staying with BMW once your lease is up?

blueguydotcom

They could cpo your car and thus you'll have a warranty.

kyfdx

1) This is a car that has an MSRP of $31,270.. the advertised lease assumes a discount of $3500 from the MSRP.. Which is only $1000 more than the current dealer cash incentive.. It should be fairly easy to negotiate a discount of $800-$1000 below that..

2) With no money down, just 1st payment and security deposit at signing, the advertised lease would be.. $390/mo. + tax..

3) If you can negotiate another $1K off the purchase price, the payment would drop to..$359/mo. + tax...

4) Want a more expensive 325i? Add $15/mo for every $1K higher MSRP than $31,270.

5) Add $8/mo for 12K/yr..
Add $24/mo. for 15K/yr.

amt7565

I test drove a 330i today and loved it.

I am thinking of leasing. The Rep told me that the current 3 series have a 56% residual and the new 3 series will have a 63% residual. Let's say I lease the current 330i for 3 years. And then at the end of 3 years, if I do decide to buy the car, is it easy to negotiate with the dealer for a lower rate than the residual?

What is your experience on this?
Thanks.

algebra

Have a deposit on 330XI. Supposed to pick up car Friday 3/11. Your deal looks much better. Don't know if I was give full benefit of $4000 reb ate. Would be very appreciative if you could give me the name of your dealer, so that I could discuss possible deal with him.

Thanks a lot.

algebra

Thanks for your help kyfdx. I'm very excited about communicating on this site. I'm a virgin with this. As far as I know the price i'm paying doesn't include cap cost reductions. Here's my deal.

330XI- MSRP 43730
Lease includes: $483.97/mo.
plus $3552 inception fees (tax included) for 36 months, 12 K miles per year. WhAt say you?

algebra

Hi Fishgraeg. Your deal looks great. What's the dealer's name and location. Was quoted much more for same car.Thanks for the help. Regards.

algebra

By the way, does the $4000 manuf. to dealer cash apply to leases as well as purchases? thanks.

blueguydotcom

By the way, does the $4000 manuf. to dealer cash apply to leases as well as purchases? thanks.

Yes! Don't let a dealer mislead you. You should be able to get any lame duck 3 series at this point for $400-500 over invoice plus the incentive.

The current 3's on its way out and the dealers don't want old product on the lot taking up real estate when the e90s roll in.

kyfdx

BMWFS isn't real big on negotiating at lease end.... It could happen, but I wouldn't base my financing decision on it...

kyfdx

algebra...

It all depends...

I'd have to see how your $3552 due at signing is broken down..

Is all of the tax being paid upfront, and included in that $3552?

Due at signing should include:
$484 1st pymt.
$500 security deposit
$625 acquisition fee.
$300 title/license fees.. (just guessing)

That adds up to $1911...

If the other $1641 is all sales tax, then your cap cost is about $36,870...

Which would be about $800 over (invoice - $4K incentive). And, that would be a good deal...

That seems like a lot of sales tax, though.. What is your tax rate, and what state do you live in?

The only way to assess your deal.. is to know how that $3552 is broken down...

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

blueguydotcom makes a really good point..

If the manufacturer is putting big incentives on these cars, then the dealer should also be discounting big on top of that..

If they were selling for close to MSRP, they wouldn't have incentives on them...

bmw4andy

Hi kyfdx and other experts,

I need some advice for choosing between lease and buy a 2005 BMW330i.
Here is some info:
MSRP: 46,470
Invoice: 42,960(excluding 4200 incentive)
Offer:40,000(this is good or I can do down to 38,000?)
downpayment: $5000
M rate: .00095
buy financial rate: 3.9% from BMW
Here is my options:
1. 24 months lease
residual 63%, monthly payment $516
2. 36 months lease
residual 54%, monthly payment $487
3. Finance monthly payment $694.7

Also some guys know the difference between ZHP and no ZHP, I really want a ZHP based on some memeber review, but not actually test one.

Many thanks!!!

kyfdx

The $40K is about $1200 over invoice.. A decent deal.. There may be another $500-$700 you could get off that.. Certainly not $2000 less.. that would be below cost..

But, more info is needed.. What is the breakdown of the $5000? Is that a downpayment, or just the total due at signing on the lease..

And, do any of the payment quotes include tax?

If I take $40K, and assume a downpayment of $5K, financing $35K for 60 months at 3.9% = $643/mo., not $694/mo.. Is the difference sales tax?

bmw4andy

Thanks kyfdx so quick reply.
$5000 is cash down in the sheet, the state tax is 6%.
for 24 month leasing, there is $500 cash(don't know what's that mean), also the total inti pmt is $2042.

$40K is before 6% state tax.

seems lease had a very low rate about 2.28%, but I may want to keep the car several years, so the question for me is Leasing Or Buy?

Also how big difference(driving experience) between with ZHP package and without it.

Thanks

kyfdx

The lease rate is .00225

That is not the same as an APR.. the equivalent APR would be around 5.4%.

So, if I am reading this right... The lease payments you were quoted require an upfront payment of $2042? Is that the entire amount due at signing?

If so, the lease is the way to go.. Those are very aggresive prices..

The prices don't seem too match up to well with each other.. The finance payment makes sense, once you add the sales tax in.. but, the lease numbers look funny..

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

It looks like someone is mixing up the money factor on the coupe.. with the residual and incentive money on the sedan..

I'm thinking those lease numbers will change, if you try to make the deal...

As far as the ZHP, you'll have to ask owners... I've driven one, but not for any relevant amount of time... I like the way they look, though..

ctorrey

amt7565-

You can't negotiate the Residual. It is set by the leasing company (BMWFS in this case?). You CAN negoiate the Money Factor (dealers sometimes build in profit here) and, obviously, the Capitalized Cost of the car.

ctorrey

bmw4andy -

Rule #1 in leasing: Never, ever, ever make a capitalized cost reduction (aka down payment) when leasing a car. You are putting the money at risk (if the car is lost or stolen, you are out the cash!) and there is nothing to gain. You will have to leave some money on the table for fees, security deposit, 1st month's payment, etc., which is fine.

Instead of paying the dealer a cap cost reduction, take the amount, put it in a bank account, and draw from it every month to subsidize the higher lease payment.

mg330ci

1. Buy from BMWFS.
1.a. Should I get an extended warranty (likely to keep car for 2 more years, so only 1 year w/o warranty.
2.b Get the mantainance upgrade. Is it worth it? considering the car has 3 years and 22K miles, how much is the 36k service?

2. Buy the car from the dealer after making it a CPO. How much should this cost?

3. Return the car and buy/lease something else (waiting for the M3

Thanks

blueguydotcom

Also how big difference(driving experience) between with ZHP package and without it.

Pretty big difference if you like to drive the car hard. Some like the ZHP for the cosmetic/audible changes. But for me I flog my cars and the 330i was too soft compared to what I wanted. The ZHP was the nice compromise - harder, louder, more eager to play but can be smooth and quiet.

blueguydotcom

Rule #1 in leasing: Never, ever, ever make a capitalized cost reduction (aka down payment) when leasing a car. You are putting the money at risk (if the car is lost or stolen, you are out the cash!) and there is nothing to gain. You will have to leave some money on the table for fees, security deposit, 1st month's payment, etc., which is fine.

Instead of paying the dealer a cap cost reduction, take the amount, put it in a bank account, and draw from it every month to subsidize the higher lease payment.

Amen! You lease to save money. What's mindblowing to me are the people I've met who put 5-6k on a lease! Yikes. Worse, people who brag about buying a new car for cash right now. If you've got 40k, drop it in a CD, a house, anything that will make money. Rates are so low, 1.9% on a loan that it's nut to put money into a depreciating asset.

kyfdx

My first inclination is option #3..

I'm not sure if I would buy, if you think you'll only keep it two years...

However, before doing option #1 or #2, check out this thread from an Edmunds member who bought his leased 5-series through his dealer...

pen101, "BMW 5-Series: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #1215, 30 Dec 2004 6:28 pm

And, if you keep the car, definitely get the upgrade to 4/50 on the maintenance... That will likely pay for the 30K service.

regards,
kyfdx

potemkin

Sorry to disagree, but... 1.9%?* Where? Bankrate.com is currently listing 36 mo. auto loans at 5.97% -- with my credit score I was offered 4.99%. And I seriously doubt if we're going to see market returns much higher than the 3.36% 2 yr. CD rates they're listing. Now, investing in a house would probably work. But otherwise, If you've got $40k, and they're not offering 1.9%, you'd be smart to pay cash considering the current economic situation (assuming we're all in the US).

Logically speaking, from a monetary standpoint, it's nuts to buy a depreciating asset, period. The only exceptions would be necessities. Those of us who have to have individual transportation should all be driving Civics... Unless, of course, there's some other factors besides money influencing what we purchase.

* Keep in mind, low rate incentives are usually made up with an inflated sale price. Which reminds me: I once negotiated a price on a car and we were $200 dollars apart. I told them I'd think about it and get with them the next day. Next day I'm driving to the dealer and the radio announces 1.9% financing on the model I was trying to buy. I tell the dealer I'll split the difference ($100.00) and take the 1.9% APR. The manager told me they'd do the first part, but if I wanted the 1.9% it'll raise the price about $1200.00 (about $2000.00 adjusted for inflation). I walked.

blueguydotcom

http://www.autosite.com/new/grabbag/rebatet.asp

BMW is at 2.9% 60 months.

Even if your CD returns 2.9% on the nose you still have other options. Put some in a CD, some in stocks. Maybe buy rental property (the amount you make on tax write-offs more than justifies this). Buy in a different area you like to visit (say hawaii) and now you've got tax write-offs for your next trip.

ncflyer

Last time I saw, you also have to pay taxeson the interest earned on a CD. So you'd have to earn about 4-4.5% on an investment to equal BMW's financing rate. Tough to do in this economy.

potemkin, I imagine the reason the price on your deal went way up is because the dealer was expecting a huge influx of demand, and they could make more from someone else who desired the financing. I doubt their costs went up-- it's often car manufacturer's financing arms which subsidize special financing.

Is it going to be possible to be getting AWD for the next 6-9 months or so on the 3? BMW will have a bit of a whole if they aren't producing the old version in AWD during the interim.

ursamajor

I have always used 36mos. or less. It appears that the residual factor declines by a great deal, like from .60 to .45 on a 2005 330Ci, negating any reduction in the payment which one would expect. The salesperson I used in placing my order says the 48mo. makes no sense at all. Do you agree?

amt7565

Many thanks to everyone who has been helpful in responding to my various questions.

I test drove a 2005 BMW 330i loaded with Premier package, leather seats & auto transmission at a MSRP of $39K. The dealer mentioned a special rebate/discount of $4800 availabe for this vehicle. Let's say this brings it down to about $34K.

What should I expect to pay monthly for a 36 or 39 month lease?

Thanks.

potemkin

You're probably right. I couldn't determine exactly why they wouldn't give me the 1.9, I just figured the financing arm was getting a kick-back for the low rate. But it doesn't matter whether it was increased costs or increased demand, the results are the same.

Stocks? Did someone mention stocks? Take a look at where the NASDAQ was five years ago today. If you accept 2.9% financing in order to play the stock market you're essentially borrowing the money to speculate on stocks.

If 5 years ago you financed $40,000 at 2.9% for 5 years and invested that cash in the NASDAQ index fund (QQQQ) you would've paid $3,018 in interest on the loan and your fund would be worth about $13,600.

On the other hand, had you paid the cash up front your finance cost is zero, and you dollar-cost average the monthly payment ($717) into the same fund... You'd probably still be down, but not by much. (Caveat: This is in no way to be construed as an endorsement of dollar-cost averaging. Get the facts before making any investment decisions. Not FDIC insured. May lose value. Blah, blah, blah.) Essentially, even the hardiest risk takers should be leery of playing the stock market with "borrowed" money.

What I'm really trying to do here, is get someone to apologize for calling me nuts. Can I get a little love here?

potemkin

Blueguy, thanks for the link. But it appears that the 2.9% only applies to the X3. Sorry, not my 'cup-of-tea' really.

Also, last time I looked (20+ years ago) you couldn't buy property in Hawaii unless you're a native. It's the law.

Play the accordion. Go to Jail. It's the law.

kying

We bought a 2004 530i with 6-speed last May, but my wife hates the clutch (too high and stiff she says) and wouldn't drive it. (She usually drives a 5-speed Audi TT and a 5-speed Audi A4). Now that 330i is such a good deal, we made an appt to test drive one (may buy to replace the A4) next Monday (3/14). I have two questions:
(1) Is the 330 clutch high and stiff like the 530i?
(2) The one we are thinking to buy is a 330i ZHP with a MSRP of $45,070. Is an offer of $38,817 reasonable?

I used the formula given by kyfdx and found that it is within the range of $6000 - $6800 below MSRP. I just need some blessing here. Thanks!!!

kyfdx

BMWFS best lease rates are almost always 36 months.. Occasionally, on some models, they may run specials on 39, 42, or even 24 month leases..

Your salesperson was correct... It makes no sense to lease for 48 months, given BMWFS current rates...

Plus, most people have a hard time planning out their automotive needs for the next four years.. Getting out of a lease early can be very expensive... I don't like to see leases longer than 39 months...

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

I think you are correct.. AWD models will be in short supply until the Fall...

kyfdx

There is a $4200 BMW to dealer incentive on the '05 330i.... A fair selling price would be closer to $6000-$7000 off of MSRP, but I'll run numbers at $34K...

MSRP $39,000
Selling price $34,000
Cap cost $34,625 (selling price + acq.fee)
3yr/36K lease
Residual 54%
MF .00225
Due at signing: 1st pymt, security deposit, title/license fees
Payment: $502/mo.+ tax

A more realistic selling price would be $32,800, which still leaves a profit of over $1000 for the dealer..

At that selling price, the payment would be $466 + tax.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

Yeah.. that price is about $1500 over (invoice - incentive).

You might hit them up with $38K, and let them work you up to your price..

Don't know what you consider "high", but I'm thinking just as stiff.. I'd definitely let her drive it, before getting down to pricing issues..

regards,
kyfdx

kying

Thanks, kyfdx!

The offer is a no haggle internet price, so I don't think we can lower it. I hope she will like the clutch ... we'll see.

Thanks again for you quick response!

mabubba

Potemkin,

You are definitely not nuts. I'd still make the minimum lease/finance payment up front (first + security or zippo for financing) and hold the money in the bank for the payments. Speculating is at your own risk.

mabubba