On the other hand, had you paid the cash up front your finance cost is zero, and you dollar-cost average the monthly payment ($717) into the same fund... You'd probably still be down, but not by much. (Caveat: This is in no way to be construed as an endorsement of dollar-cost averaging. Get the facts before making any investment decisions. Not FDIC insured. May lose value. Blah, blah, blah.) Essentially, even the hardiest risk takers should be leery of playing the stock market with "borrowed" money.
True, that's why i'd play with property. I suggested the others because people seem to like the idea of "safe" things like savings, CDs and stocks (I went to b school and still don't trust stocks, lol). to each his own. When you see the tax deductions from rentals and roi on property in CA, it's hard to fathom putting 40k into a car when it could be used to cover a townhouse should you not find a renter. for years.
Re: Hawaii. Really, that's nice... but a moot point for me. Too rich and too far away for my East coast blood.
And as far as property being a sure thing... I wouldn't go that far. Property values are sky high now and I wouldn't be surprised to see a mild recession be enough to cause the housing market to trip over its own feet. Of course, in the long run it's probably a low risk investment I'd pay 2.9% to go into (if I were so inclined).
Getting back to the topic on hand: My aversion to the aforementioned finance/invest scenario probably has something to do with my experiences of buying technology stocks on margin back at the turn of the century. Call it a lesson learned. An expensive one.
And the finance/invest option would probably sound better to my ears but it just happens that that is the exact sales pitch the dealer sold me on back in '95 when I bought my 318ti. Which worked out well because I was able to buy it outright three years later with the capital gains from my investments. I spent the next seven years driving that ti hard and investing the monthly payment. The plan was to drive it into the ground and buy a new car with cash. The only problem is that 318ti shows no sign of wearing out. So now I'm stuck with two cars and a one car garage. Now I'm rambling.
You don't buy rental property looking to dump it. Even if the market slumped for 5 years, it wouldn't matter. Keep renting, the rental prices will continue to go up and the prices will rebound.
LOL about the one car garage thing. That's my life too. The house I live in only has a one car garage. My tennants have better accomodations!
I rode in a friend's 316ti in France last month. I was impressed by how agile and fun that car was. Of course she drove like a fiend, which made it all the more fun.
But if we all got into the rental business the competition would only hurt those already in it.
Oh yeah, as much as I enjoy my new 325i (manual, sports package, xenons) I still think my 318ti (no extra cost options -- damn thing got hubcaps, LOL) is more fun to drive when it comes to "driving it like you stole it". I thought the rev limiter was there to tell me when it was okay to shift.
I thought the solution was to park the ti at my parents house (two-car carport) since they're in FL right now and my little brother can't drive a manual. I told him he could drive it occasionally if he took it in for a tune up and oil change. I was assuming he wouldn't bother since he has a newer Grand Prix with more horses under the hood. Boy, was I ever wrong. He spent half a day tooling around the neighborhood learning to drive a stick and now he's driving it everywhere.
kyfdx- In the very last line you mention $466.00 + tax. Do you mean the full vehicle tax? So for example if the vechile tax is $2500.00, should I devide this by 36 and add it to the monthly payment of $466.00?
The dealer priced the 330i at a MSRP of $40,345.00(premier package + auto transmission) They will take off $6300.00. So this comes to about $34K.
Then they offered me a lease for 42 months at 15K miles/year at $569/month. With $850 + First month payment down.
I think it's too high. I only wanted a 36 month lease at 12K miles/year. Wouldn't you agree it's too high?
Can anyone please help me understand this lease rate? What interest rate has been calculated? Why is the lease so high?. This is in the state of texas. Thanks.
I don't have the numbers for the 42 month lease.. but, it looks like whatever numbers they have... they are padding them.. If you want 36mo/36K, then tell them that...
It doesn't sound like they are listening to you..
For a 36mo/36K lease, and using your MSRP and a selling price of $6300 less... I get $485/mo. + tax... with only 1st pymt and security deposit upfront.
I don't know your tax rate, or how they calculate it in your state... but, even in a high-tax state (excepting IL and TX), the total payment probably wouldn't be over $530/mo. with tax included...
I used 54% for the residual and .00225 for the money factor...
I'd tell you to go ask the dealer how they calculate the tax in your state... but, it doesn't sound like they are listening to you now...
If this is the car you want, just go in and tell them you'll pay $485 + tax for 36mo/36K and that is it.. If they agree, look over the paperwork carefully.. If all the terms match, then all is okay..
If they persist in trying to sell you something you don't want... I'd look elsewhere..
Using your figures, assuming the $ 850 is an additional cost added, like the bank fee, and a sales tax of 6% added to each payment, using the lease factor of .00225, the only way to arrive at a payment that high is to have a very low residual of approx. 42% of MSRP. The current residuals for 10k miles/yr and 12k/yr, respectively, are now .55 and .54, respectively. .42 is quite a stretch. Ask them for all the details, including the residual, back reduce the lease to 36 months, and make sure the money factor is not marked up above .00225--you must make the refundable deposit to obtain that lower MF. This dealer is very stupid to think that you can't determine how bad that deal is. I would go through the exercise then look elsewhere.
I assumed the $850 is for security deposit and license fees.. I rolled the acquisition fee into the cap cost to get the $485 payment..
Also, I'm guessing their $569/mo included tax..
But, still... I agree... something is rotten with that quote..
Unfortunately, you can negotiate a decent price on a car, but have them rake you over the coals in the finance office.. If you don't work out the numbers in advance, even someone very familiar with leasing can lose track of $30-$40 per month..
Does this sound like a good deal for a prepay lease on a 2005 330i with Sports Package and automatic: 1 Payment $17,500 Total. works out to $486/month tax included MSRP $39,000 Selling Price ? not known since I negotiated based on the total cost of the lease. 36 months/12,000 miles per year Thanks, Mike
I am about to go lease a 325ci tonight. However, I would like to know what fees do I expect to see.
Last time I was at dealer (march) he included a $50 bank fee. A $760 aquisition fee?? And a bunch of other stuff.
Could someone please summarize what fees we should see and approx how much? I dont have experience with leasing. (I am in texas so I must pay tax on whole cap cost upfront..if this helps)
Now, I got the finance charge by assuming you paid only the $11940 + 625 upfront and then made 36 monthly payments.. then multiplied by 36.. Then, I discounted it because you are paying all of the finance charge upfront.
I'll assume you have an 8% tax rate, and that the entire upfront payment will be taxed.. (your taxes may vary).
Total $16,965...
The assumed selling price only has an $1800 discount from (MSRP - incentive), so depending on your tax rate, this should not be that difficult to obtain.
If your tax rate is close to 8%, I'd be looking for a one-pay lease of $16,500-$17,000.
Any particular reason that you want to do a one-pay lease?
On a BMWFS lease, the acquisition fee should be $625. You'll have a security deposit rounded up to the next higher $50 increment ($500 on a payment of $479, for example).
The only other fees should be government fees.. I think Texas has some sort of inventory tax that has to be paid by the buyer (under $100, I think).. sales tax... maybe license or registration fees..
Some dealers charge a delivery or document fee.. these are just ways to add profit to a deal.. I always ask about these upfront and adjust my offer accordingly... fees of $30-$50 aren't really worth worrying about, but anything over $100 is just a money grab... I've even heard of fees as high as $499!!
I figure it's not a bad idea to wait for late '06 or '07 till it is consumer-tested. It also gives me a flexibility to wait out for a better deal or another model. So, I'm thinking, I could take advantage of the incentive on '05, and then upgrade to the new model next year. If I take total $6k hit, or $.50 per mile, I think I'd be alright.
Here are my figures for sport/premium with alarm installed:
Out-the-door-price on '05: $38k Private party sale in 2006: $32k mileage after a year: 12000 dep. per mile: $0.50
I was at a dealer early this week and was quoted a price of MSRP less the $4200 incentive. Of course they also tried to low-ball me on my trade.
I left without haggling. I was sort of POed they would do this since everywhere you see on the net they are selling at or under invoice. I don't mind them making a little money, but I don't want to finance their vacation.
I have never dealt with a BMW dealer before. Was this bait they hung out there hoping I would bite, or should I go somewhere else?
But, from my experience, these plans always look better on paper...
Ever try to sell a car yourself for $32K? I have to believe that is a small market.. I once sold a car for $16,500, but that was a specialty car in short supply and high demand..
I'd look into a 2 year lease... That might be the cheapest way to go about it... Driving a brand-new car for just one year will be expensive...
Hello - I am about to pull the trigger on a 330cic in sparkling graphite with auto, nav, ZHP, xenons, heated front seats. Wondering if this is a fair deal or if I should try to find an even better price (I have been working on this deal for several weeks now and this is the best I have been able to negociate)...
MSRP = $53745 Sale price = $50946 MF = 1.65 Res = 63% 36 month payment with 8.25% tax = $665 $1800 due at signing ($O cap cost reduction - includes 1st payment)
Last question, I am also considering a 24 month lease - how would this change the res % and would the MF change?
Just in case I am unable to get a 330i I like anyplace close to my hometown or if I receive a better quote from an out of state dealer, then what are the pro's and cons of this?
Good question.I asked in another forum but was never answered.I see your also in Dallas and I feel your pain....Also I saw your message about Ewing.I cant comment about MB, but we purchased a truck next door and the service and sales have been Excellent.I feel we have been treated as well as any MB customer of theirs.
kyfdx, for comparison, Audi premier lease 2.0TQ 36/12k 58% residual 3.6% interest. +taxes 6.25% and $200 in tags,title ect. No other fee's.What do you think ?
I am interested in a 2005 325xi lease with metallic paint, premium package, automatic transmission and heated seats. The deal which I was offered today is apparently non-negotiable. MSRP = $36,295, CAP = 32,970, money factor .2 (4.8%). 12K miles. Up front: security = $450 + bank fee = $900 + tax = $1,400 + 1st month payment = $448 == $3200 up front. Monthly payment $448. Can I do better?
It is financially better in the long term to try and pay taxes up front if possible rather than rolling it into the monthly payments right?
Finally, the dealer swears there are only 2 more 325xi's in stock, and that no one is getting new ones shipped in anymore due to the new model coming out. Is this really true everywhere? And do the new models coming out worsen or sweeten the idea of leasing an '05 model (? residuals affected?).
It works out to $455/month +tax=$486/month Total I checked my quote at several other dealerships in South Florida and they said they could not touch it. One salesman said "they are giving you everything" that is available: marketing cash,pre-pay lease discount,etc." The car has an MSRP of $38,500 kyfdx how do you get a $1800 discount from MSRP only? When I go back to the dealership with cash in hand I bet they would be willing to accept $17,000 or I can tell them I want 15k/miles per year instead of 12 for the $17,500 price offered. One more question is it better to get the extra miles as part of the lease or prepay them at a discounted rate and get a refund at the end if you don't use them? Thanks again for all the helpful information and advice. To all readers out there if one dealership is not flexible get up and leave and find one that is! Mike
1) Using all of the same parameters, the payment for a 24 month lease would be $712/mo incl.tax... The money factor is the same, and the residual is 72%, instea of 63%.
2) It looks like you are not making a security deposit.. If you made the $700 security deposit, it would drop your money factor to .0015 from .00165 and save you $14/mo., plus you would get the $700 back at lease end.
3) $1800 upfront sounds like a lot, if you are not making the security deposit, but then again, I don't know what your registration fees are like... The acquisition fee should only $625.. Make sure they aren't marking it up..
4) $2800 off MSRP is a pretty strong offer on a convertible.. If you are serious about this, don't wait until after the end of the month... No one can tell the future, but last April, the lease deals on convertibles got much higher, than the previous month.
A good deal all of the way around... I'd consider making the security deposit, and having the $625 acq. fee rolled into the lease.. that will keep your upfront about the same. Your payment would be about $6/mo. higher, but you'd get the $700 back at lease end. Considering the higher payment for 24 months, I'd stick with 36.
So, is the car in stock? Have you seen the sparkling graphite? What do you think of it? What color interior to go with it?
Here is the good part.. The dealer's numbers are all correct.. They are not marking up the money factor, and if you are in NY, then the acq. fee is indeed $900.
The dealer may be telling the truth.. There aren't a lot of 325xi out there, and they aren't making any more.. There may be a few in-transit that will still reach dealerships, but not a lot...
There really isn't a bad part.. but, there is a $1500 BMW-to-dealer incentive on the 325xi.. When you take that into account, it drops your effective discount from MSRP to about $1800.. I haven't done the math, but that is probably about $1200-$1500 over invoice.. So, you could possibly do better, or maybe not.. It all depends on the dealer, etc.. Have you visited the dealer? At most dealers, it is pretty easy to see what they have in stock.. If he only has two left, he isn't likely to deal much more..
Finally... I like to have as little due at signing as possible.. I mean, you are renting the car by the month.. You wouldn't pay $3600 upfront to lower the lease on your apartment by $100 each month for the next three years, would you? True, you do save finance charges on what you pay upfront, but that is negligible..
So, if you roll the $900 acq.fee and $1400 tax into the payment, the payment goes up to $517/mo.. Your security deposit would be $550, so you would have around $1100 due at signing.
If you can get them to lower the selling price, you'll save $3/mo. for every $100 lower.
1) In your first message, you stated that the MSRP was $39K.. Now, you say it is $38,500? Details like that make a big difference.. On a prepay lease like this, $38.5K should be about $200 cheaper than $39K.
2) If BMW is paying your dealer $4200 extra for selling the car, and then they are giving you $6000 off MSRP, the effective discount is $1800..
3) Mileage: It is important to know what you will need.. A miscalculation can cost you money either way.. If you are sure you will use at least 14K/year, then I would get the 15K/yr allotment.. If you are pretty sure you are at 13K or less, then get the 12K, and pay later..
4) On a $38.5K MSRP, the 15K/yr will cost them (and you) $770.
5) At an MSRP of $38,500, I feel certain that you will have a deal, if you go in with a check for $17K.. But, it isn't my money.. and, I'm not the dealer..
Buying cars is hard.. finding out what you should pay is the easy part.. Getting a dealer to agree is not..
Kyfdx - thanks for the prompt reply. To respond to your questions -
Regarding the security deposit, none necessary as I have been careful with my credit and they have agreed to waive this. But you make a good point about the MF being dropped to help lower the payment - I am going to check with the dealer tomorrow to see if I can add the security deposit and acq fee into the lease.
Point 3 - the $1800 upfront is broken down as follows:
Cap Reduction - $8.29 Cap Reduction Tax (8.25%) - $55.96 License and Reg (CA) - $400.75 Bank Fee - $625 Doc Fee- $45 First Payment - $665 Security Dep - $0 Total = $1800
Anything out of the ordinary there to you?
Anyway to reduce?
I am pondering the 24 month lease as I am relocating to the West Coast from the East Coast and want to make sure that I dont have to break the lease early should I have to move back. Are you familiar with early termination policies if say at 24 months into a 36 month lease I need to break it? I just think the 24 month lease would be the safer, more practical bet for me. Can you please shed some light on this?
The car is in stock - I have seen the color and like it - its not my first choice (which is orient blue) but there are no cars coming in or on the ground with the features I want at the time I want it. The interior of the car referenced above would be in black leather which again is not my first choice but will do...
Finally, do you think that due to the end of the current 3 series they will continue to offer attractive deals in April to move inventory in advance of the new models? Wouldnt this be the prudent thing for them to do? How much did they go up last year?
1) All of those numbers look good.. You have a good discount from MSRP and your dealer is using all of the base numbers.. This is 95% of what it takes to get a good lease deal.
2) They aren't waiving the security deposit because you have good credit (though that may be a requirement). They are increasing the money factor in lieu of the security deposit.
3) As I stated above, have them put the bank fee into the cap cost, and make the security deposit.. This would increase your upfront by about $80, and increase your payment by about $6/mo., for a total increase of about $300 over the life of the lease... but, you'll get the $700 security deposit back, leaving you a net gain of $400. Just make sure that they use the lower money factor of .0015, when making the security deposit.
4) Breaking a lease after 24 months of a 36 month lease will be prohibitively expensive.. Is there some reason you couldn't take the car with you? If you think you can't keep the car for 36 months, then by all means, lease it for 24.
5) If you do decide on the 24 month lease, then you won't want to extend it, because of the higher payment... Be resigned to the fact that you will have to give up the car in two years..
6) Orient Blue is boring!! Stick with the Sparkling Graphite.. lol
7) New convertibles don't come out until next Spring at earliest.. Don't count on prices coming down soon.. Last year, waiting until April would have cost you $80-$100/mo.
According to Costco invoice prices just released there is about a $2431 spread in invoice and options pretty much how ever you slice it. I would split the difference ,Many say no discount on new model ..bla bla but a beautiful Saturday yesterday and the show room was dead.
The comparision vehicle. 05 325i OrientBlue/Sand Premium,CWP,Step,Leather, MSRP $36495.00 ,was offered $32600 from Autobahn.I figure thats $1600 above adjusted invoice.About $700 to high for me .Your thoughts?
The cavet is we HAVE to have the folddown seats (standard in Audi)That 325i the only one left in SW region with CWP. Any reason to think even with the E90, that the E46 would'nt bring at least 58% in 36 months ? otherwords msrp $36495.00, sales price $32000.00 58% %18,560.00.
I have a good private offer on my truck and need to make a decision tomorrow.
Im sorry I wasn't clear. I meant lease on Audi, and purchase on the 325i. On the seats and CWP , I meant thats the only one in the SW region thats available. thanks, DL
I am considering getting a 3-series was looking for some input. 1) My first question is for those in the DC area. I was wondering if any recommends getting a 325xi vs. 325i. I hear that there is some difference in how they drive. Besides, I would like not to spend the extra money if I really don't need it. I hear the 325i handles decently in the snow.
2) If I am looking to get a 325i (prem pkg, auto trans, fold down rear seats, and heated seats) in Titanium Silver. Edmunds says invoice is $32,150 without $2500 rebate. How much can I really get it for in the DC area without leasing?
3) I was also looking at possibly getting a Certified Preowned with 10k-20K miles. I like that fact that there is a 6yr/100,000 miles warranty. A '04 (<10K miles) with similar options are going for approx. $30k. I was wondering which do you think is a better deal? Or if I could neogiotate more with the preowned since there is a rebate with the new '05.
4) Lastly, do you thinking paying more for the '06 325i would be worth it?
I am a newbie to this so any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
I got the following quote from the dealer in NJ. They are offering an incentive of $3000 as 06 model will start coming mid year. Can I do any better? Can incentive, residual, money factor, options be negotiated any further? Please advice.
MSRP 29300 Automatic Transmission 1275 Premium Package 2300 Metallic 475 Harman Kardon Premium sound 675 Destination & Handling 695 Total Cost 34720 Incentive 3000 Final Total 31720 Lease Amount (45%) 14274 Money Factor (5.4%-15K miles) 16586.388 Total Lease with Tax (6% NJ) 17581.57128 Monthly Installment (36 months) 488.37698 Residual After 3 years (55%) 19096
Thanks again kyfdx! How did you figure the $770 additional for the 15k miles/year vs. 12k? Also, how do you propose I haggle an extra $500 off the "agreed upon" price previously quoted by the dealer? Thanks man!
1) The 325i is "decent" in the snow with stock all-season tires.. Before I would spend the money on an Xi, I would rather buy winter tires and swap out each year.. I had a 330Xi as a loaner last Friday, and was not impressed..
3) If the invoice is $32,150, you should be able to purchase between $30,500-$31,000 plus TTL.
3) I'd rather have a brand new one for $30,500, than an '04 for $28K... If you can't save at least $3K-$4K, get the new one.. Also, I'd bet on the '06 being substantially more in actual selling price.
BMW is giving the dealer $2500 on every '05 325i, so in effect, they are only giving you a further discount of $500.
The selling price should be at least $1000-$1500 lower than what they are quoting you.. If you negotiate that much more off, then your payment would drop between $31-$46 per month..
Also, you didn't mention your "Due at signing" amount.. That should be 1st payment, security deposit and $625 acquisition fee plus title/registration.. Probably $1800 total at most.
One mistake... You are figuring the depreciation on the difference between MSRP and the residual.. The residual is calculated from MSRP, but the depreciation is calculated from selling price.
The depreciation is (negotiated selling price - residual).
And, along those same lines.. The monthly finance charge is [(negotiated selling price + residual) X money factor]
So, your residual calculation was correct.. Now, go back and substitute a selling price for MSRP in the other calculations. (If the MSRP is $34K, I suggest using $30K as the selling price).
kyfdx: Several posts among the 3-Series and 5-Series forums have referenced the 60-day "lock-in" period or "shelf life" of a lease deal's terms (i.e., MF & Residual).
Please allow me to test my understanding of what I've read. I ordered a 2005 330Cic (for lease) on February 28th. The car needs to be built, and the deal was negotiated based on the prevailing (Feb) BMWFS MF's and Residual for this model. I presumed that these terms were "good" through the end of April, and if the car arrived after April were subject to change. However, where the February MF and Residual did not change for March, am I correct in presuming that my terms are good for 60 days from the end of March or May 31st? Please let me know if I'm mistaken about any of this. Thanks. pjt
This is my understanding.. you might check it with your dealer...
Even though the program terms didn't change, the lease program that you used did expire at the end of February.. I don't think you are locked past April 30th...
I could be wrong.. You might call your dealer.. If they are charitable, and it is possible, they may be able to move your deal to March 1st.. thereby locking you until May 31st (but, I doubt it..)
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True, that's why i'd play with property. I suggested the others because people seem to like the idea of "safe" things like savings, CDs and stocks (I went to b school and still don't trust stocks, lol). to each his own. When you see the tax deductions from rentals and roi on property in CA, it's hard to fathom putting 40k into a car when it could be used to cover a townhouse should you not find a renter. for years.
Either way, enjoy the BMW!
You can buy property in Hawaii, I have two CA friends who have done so. a lot changes over time.
And as far as property being a sure thing... I wouldn't go that far. Property values are sky high now and I wouldn't be surprised to see a mild recession be enough to cause the housing market to trip over its own feet. Of course, in the long run it's probably a low risk investment I'd pay 2.9% to go into (if I were so inclined).
Getting back to the topic on hand: My aversion to the aforementioned finance/invest scenario probably has something to do with my experiences of buying technology stocks on margin back at the turn of the century. Call it a lesson learned. An expensive one.
And the finance/invest option would probably sound better to my ears but it just happens that that is the exact sales pitch the dealer sold me on back in '95 when I bought my 318ti. Which worked out well because I was able to buy it outright three years later with the capital gains from my investments. I spent the next seven years driving that ti hard and investing the monthly payment. The plan was to drive it into the ground and buy a new car with cash. The only problem is that 318ti shows no sign of wearing out. So now I'm stuck with two cars and a one car garage. Now I'm rambling.
More later... I'm sure.
LOL about the one car garage thing. That's my life too. The house I live in only has a one car garage. My tennants have better accomodations!
I rode in a friend's 316ti in France last month. I was impressed by how agile and fun that car was. Of course she drove like a fiend, which made it all the more fun.
Oh yeah, as much as I enjoy my new 325i (manual, sports package, xenons) I still think my 318ti (no extra cost options -- damn thing got hubcaps, LOL) is more fun to drive when it comes to "driving it like you stole it". I thought the rev limiter was there to tell me when it was okay to shift.
I thought the solution was to park the ti at my parents house (two-car carport) since they're in FL right now and my little brother can't drive a manual. I told him he could drive it occasionally if he took it in for a tune up and oil change. I was assuming he wouldn't bother since he has a newer Grand Prix with more horses under the hood. Boy, was I ever wrong. He spent half a day tooling around the neighborhood learning to drive a stick and now he's driving it everywhere.
In the very last line you mention $466.00 + tax. Do you mean the full vehicle tax? So for example if the vechile tax is $2500.00, should I devide this by 36 and add it to the monthly payment of $466.00?
Thanks.
In TX and IL, you pay on the entire purchase price of the car...
Other states have other methods of calculating the tax..
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Then they offered me a lease for 42 months at 15K miles/year at $569/month. With $850 + First month payment down.
I think it's too high. I only wanted a 36 month lease at 12K miles/year. Wouldn't you agree it's too high?
Can anyone please help me understand this lease rate? What interest rate has been calculated? Why is the lease so high?. This is in the state of texas.
Thanks.
It doesn't sound like they are listening to you..
For a 36mo/36K lease, and using your MSRP and a selling price of $6300 less... I get $485/mo. + tax... with only 1st pymt and security deposit upfront.
I don't know your tax rate, or how they calculate it in your state... but, even in a high-tax state (excepting IL and TX), the total payment probably wouldn't be over $530/mo. with tax included...
I used 54% for the residual and .00225 for the money factor...
I'd tell you to go ask the dealer how they calculate the tax in your state... but, it doesn't sound like they are listening to you now...
If this is the car you want, just go in and tell them you'll pay $485 + tax for 36mo/36K and that is it.. If they agree, look over the paperwork carefully.. If all the terms match, then all is okay..
If they persist in trying to sell you something you don't want... I'd look elsewhere..
regards,
kyfdx
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Thank you very much.
You have been most helpful!
AMT
Also, I'm guessing their $569/mo included tax..
But, still... I agree... something is rotten with that quote..
Unfortunately, you can negotiate a decent price on a car, but have them rake you over the coals in the finance office.. If you don't work out the numbers in advance, even someone very familiar with leasing can lose track of $30-$40 per month..
regards,
kyfdx
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1 Payment $17,500 Total.
works out to $486/month tax included
MSRP $39,000
Selling Price ? not known since I negotiated based on the total cost of the lease.
36 months/12,000 miles per year
Thanks,
Mike
Last time I was at dealer (march) he included a $50 bank fee. A $760 aquisition fee?? And a bunch of other stuff.
Could someone please summarize what fees we should see and approx how much? I dont have experience with leasing. (I am in texas so I must pay tax on whole cap cost upfront..if this helps)
Thanks!
Skimo
With a selling price of $33K, I get about $472/mo.+ tax..
But, at a selling price of $33K (which seems reasonable), the depreciation is $11940..
I don't know exactly how they calculate the figures for a one-pay lease, but I can come close..
Selling price $33K
Residual $21,060
$11940 depreciation
$ 625 acq. fee
$ 3143 finance charge
$15708 Total.. plus tax
Now, I got the finance charge by assuming you paid only the $11940 + 625 upfront and then made 36 monthly payments.. then multiplied by 36.. Then, I discounted it because you are paying all of the finance charge upfront.
I'll assume you have an 8% tax rate, and that the entire upfront payment will be taxed.. (your taxes may vary).
Total $16,965...
The assumed selling price only has an $1800 discount from (MSRP - incentive), so depending on your tax rate, this should not be that difficult to obtain.
If your tax rate is close to 8%, I'd be looking for a one-pay lease of $16,500-$17,000.
Any particular reason that you want to do a one-pay lease?
regards,
kyfdx
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The only other fees should be government fees.. I think Texas has some sort of inventory tax that has to be paid by the buyer (under $100, I think).. sales tax... maybe license or registration fees..
Some dealers charge a delivery or document fee.. these are just ways to add profit to a deal.. I always ask about these upfront and adjust my offer accordingly... fees of $30-$50 aren't really worth worrying about, but anything over $100 is just a money grab... I've even heard of fees as high as $499!!
Good luck!
kyfdx
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Here are my figures for sport/premium with alarm installed:
Out-the-door-price on '05: $38k
Private party sale in 2006: $32k
mileage after a year: 12000
dep. per mile: $0.50
Would this be a realistic scenario?
I left without haggling. I was sort of POed they would do this since everywhere you see on the net they are selling at or under invoice. I don't mind them making a little money, but I don't want to finance their vacation.
I have never dealt with a BMW dealer before. Was this bait they hung out there hoping I would bite, or should I go somewhere else?
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
But, from my experience, these plans always look better on paper...
Ever try to sell a car yourself for $32K? I have to believe that is a small market.. I once sold a car for $16,500, but that was a specialty car in short supply and high demand..
I'd look into a 2 year lease... That might be the cheapest way to go about it... Driving a brand-new car for just one year will be expensive...
regards,
kyfdx
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I'd at least try making an offer for what I wanted to pay, before trying somewhere else..
And, everyone will lowball you on your trade... trades are rarely worth what we think they are..
regards,
kyfdx
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MSRP = $53745
Sale price = $50946
MF = 1.65
Res = 63%
36 month payment with 8.25% tax = $665
$1800 due at signing ($O cap cost reduction - includes 1st payment)
Last question, I am also considering a 24 month lease - how would this change the res % and would the MF change?
I appreciate any response.
This forum has been a great tool in my research.
Thanks.
I live in Texas.
Thanks.
AMT-
kyfdx, for comparison, Audi premier lease 2.0TQ 36/12k 58% residual 3.6% interest. +taxes 6.25% and $200 in tags,title ect. No other fee's.What do you think ?
Thanks,
DL
It is financially better in the long term to try and pay taxes up front if possible rather than rolling it into the monthly payments right?
Finally, the dealer swears there are only 2 more 325xi's in stock, and that no one is getting new ones shipped in anymore due to the new model coming out. Is this really true everywhere? And do the new models coming out worsen or sweeten the idea of leasing an '05 model (? residuals affected?).
Thanks.
I checked my quote at several other dealerships in South Florida and they said they could not touch it. One salesman said "they are giving you everything" that is available: marketing cash,pre-pay lease discount,etc."
The car has an MSRP of $38,500 kyfdx how do you get a $1800 discount from MSRP only?
When I go back to the dealership with cash in hand I bet they would be willing to accept $17,000 or I can tell them I want 15k/miles per year instead of 12 for the $17,500 price offered. One more question is it better to get the extra miles as part of the lease or prepay them at a discounted rate and get a refund at the end if you don't use them?
Thanks again for all the helpful information and advice. To all readers out there if one dealership is not flexible get up and leave and find one that is!
Mike
2) It looks like you are not making a security deposit.. If you made the $700 security deposit, it would drop your money factor to .0015 from .00165 and save you $14/mo., plus you would get the $700 back at lease end.
3) $1800 upfront sounds like a lot, if you are not making the security deposit, but then again, I don't know what your registration fees are like... The acquisition fee should only $625.. Make sure they aren't marking it up..
4) $2800 off MSRP is a pretty strong offer on a convertible.. If you are serious about this, don't wait until after the end of the month... No one can tell the future, but last April, the lease deals on convertibles got much higher, than the previous month.
A good deal all of the way around... I'd consider making the security deposit, and having the $625 acq. fee rolled into the lease.. that will keep your upfront about the same. Your payment would be about $6/mo. higher, but you'd get the $700 back at lease end. Considering the higher payment for 24 months, I'd stick with 36.
So, is the car in stock? Have you seen the sparkling graphite? What do you think of it? What color interior to go with it?
regards,
kyfdx
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The best lease numbers in the world won't make a low payment, if you have to pay close to MSRP for the car.
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Here is the good part.. The dealer's numbers are all correct.. They are not marking up the money factor, and if you are in NY, then the acq. fee is indeed $900.
The dealer may be telling the truth.. There aren't a lot of 325xi out there, and they aren't making any more.. There may be a few in-transit that will still reach dealerships, but not a lot...
There really isn't a bad part.. but, there is a $1500 BMW-to-dealer incentive on the 325xi.. When you take that into account, it drops your effective discount from MSRP to about $1800.. I haven't done the math, but that is probably about $1200-$1500 over invoice.. So, you could possibly do better, or maybe not.. It all depends on the dealer, etc.. Have you visited the dealer? At most dealers, it is pretty easy to see what they have in stock.. If he only has two left, he isn't likely to deal much more..
Finally... I like to have as little due at signing as possible.. I mean, you are renting the car by the month.. You wouldn't pay $3600 upfront to lower the lease on your apartment by $100 each month for the next three years, would you? True, you do save finance charges on what you pay upfront, but that is negligible..
So, if you roll the $900 acq.fee and $1400 tax into the payment, the payment goes up to $517/mo.. Your security deposit would be $550, so you would have around $1100 due at signing.
If you can get them to lower the selling price, you'll save $3/mo. for every $100 lower.
regards,
kyfdx
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2) If BMW is paying your dealer $4200 extra for selling the car, and then they are giving you $6000 off MSRP, the effective discount is $1800..
3) Mileage: It is important to know what you will need.. A miscalculation can cost you money either way.. If you are sure you will use at least 14K/year, then I would get the 15K/yr allotment.. If you are pretty sure you are at 13K or less, then get the 12K, and pay later..
4) On a $38.5K MSRP, the 15K/yr will cost them (and you) $770.
5) At an MSRP of $38,500, I feel certain that you will have a deal, if you go in with a check for $17K.. But, it isn't my money.. and, I'm not the dealer..
Buying cars is hard.. finding out what you should pay is the easy part.. Getting a dealer to agree is not..
regards,
kyfdx
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Regarding the security deposit, none necessary as I have been careful with my credit and they have agreed to waive this. But you make a good point about the MF being dropped to help lower the payment - I am going to check with the dealer tomorrow to see if I can add the security deposit and acq fee into the lease.
Point 3 - the $1800 upfront is broken down as follows:
Cap Reduction - $8.29
Cap Reduction Tax (8.25%) - $55.96
License and Reg (CA) - $400.75
Bank Fee - $625
Doc Fee- $45
First Payment - $665
Security Dep - $0
Total = $1800
Anything out of the ordinary there to you?
Anyway to reduce?
I am pondering the 24 month lease as I am relocating to the West Coast from the East Coast and want to make sure that I dont have to break the lease early should I have to move back. Are you familiar with early termination policies if say at 24 months into a 36 month lease I need to break it? I just think the 24 month lease would be the safer, more practical bet for me. Can you please shed some light on this?
The car is in stock - I have seen the color and like it - its not my first choice (which is orient blue) but there are no cars coming in or on the ground with the features I want at the time I want it. The interior of the car referenced above would be in black leather which again is not my first choice but will do...
Finally, do you think that due to the end of the current 3 series they will continue to offer attractive deals in April to move inventory in advance of the new models? Wouldnt this be the prudent thing for them to do? How much did they go up last year?
Thanks again.
2) They aren't waiving the security deposit because you have good credit (though that may be a requirement). They are increasing the money factor in lieu of the security deposit.
3) As I stated above, have them put the bank fee into the cap cost, and make the security deposit.. This would increase your upfront by about $80, and increase your payment by about $6/mo., for a total increase of about $300 over the life of the lease... but, you'll get the $700 security deposit back, leaving you a net gain of $400. Just make sure that they use the lower money factor of .0015, when making the security deposit.
4) Breaking a lease after 24 months of a 36 month lease will be prohibitively expensive.. Is there some reason you couldn't take the car with you? If you think you can't keep the car for 36 months, then by all means, lease it for 24.
5) If you do decide on the 24 month lease, then you won't want to extend it, because of the higher payment... Be resigned to the fact that you will have to give up the car in two years..
6) Orient Blue is boring!! Stick with the Sparkling Graphite.. lol
7) New convertibles don't come out until next Spring at earliest.. Don't count on prices coming down soon.. Last year, waiting until April would have cost you $80-$100/mo.
Hope this helps,
kyfdx
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The comparision vehicle. 05 325i OrientBlue/Sand Premium,CWP,Step,Leather, MSRP $36495.00 ,was offered $32600 from Autobahn.I figure thats $1600 above adjusted invoice.About $700 to high for me .Your thoughts?
DL
At $36,395, the spread is exactly $3000.. and goes up from there.. Figure about 9% as a general rule of thumb...
So, I'd say you are exactly correct..
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I have a good private offer on my truck and need to make a decision tomorrow.
Thanks,
DL
My car has the fold down rear seats as a stand-alone option.. You don't necessarily have to have the CWP to get them..
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thanks,
DL
1) My first question is for those in the DC area. I was wondering if any recommends getting a 325xi vs. 325i. I hear that there is some difference in how they drive. Besides, I would like not to spend the extra money if I really don't need it. I hear the 325i handles decently in the snow.
2) If I am looking to get a 325i (prem pkg, auto trans, fold down rear seats, and heated seats) in Titanium Silver. Edmunds says invoice is $32,150 without $2500 rebate. How much can I really get it for in the DC area without leasing?
3) I was also looking at possibly getting a Certified Preowned with 10k-20K miles. I like that fact that there is a 6yr/100,000 miles warranty. A '04 (<10K miles) with similar options are going for approx. $30k. I was wondering which do you think is a better deal? Or if I could neogiotate more with the preowned since there is a rebate with the new '05.
4) Lastly, do you thinking paying more for the '06 325i would be worth it?
I am a newbie to this so any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
MSRP 29300
Automatic Transmission 1275
Premium Package 2300
Metallic 475
Harman Kardon Premium sound 675
Destination & Handling 695
Total Cost 34720
Incentive 3000
Final Total 31720
Lease Amount (45%) 14274
Money Factor (5.4%-15K miles) 16586.388
Total Lease with Tax (6% NJ) 17581.57128
Monthly Installment (36 months) 488.37698
Residual After 3 years (55%) 19096
How did you figure the $770 additional for the 15k miles/year vs. 12k? Also, how do you propose I haggle an extra $500 off the "agreed upon" price previously quoted by the dealer?
Thanks man!
I have been educating myself on calculating lease payments. For calculations you provided, I needed some additional clarification please:
-MSRP= $34,000
-residual @ 54% = 34,000 x 0.54 = 18,360
-Monthly depreciation fee= (34,000-18,360)/36 = $434
-Monthly finance charge=(34K + 18.36K)x 0.00225= $117
-Sales tax(Texas 6.8%)= ($434 + $117 )x .068 = $37
-Total monthy payment = $434 + $117 + $37 = $588
Is my calculations correct?
Considering I put down $1000 including first month's payment (as mentioned in your calculation, how I do subtract that from the amount of $588.00?
is it $1000/36 = $27 ?
This will make it $588-$27 = $560.00 not $485 + tax. What am I missing?
Really appreciate the support!
Thanks
AMT
3) If the invoice is $32,150, you should be able to purchase between $30,500-$31,000 plus TTL.
3) I'd rather have a brand new one for $30,500, than an '04 for $28K... If you can't save at least $3K-$4K, get the new one.. Also, I'd bet on the '06 being substantially more in actual selling price.
regards,
kyfdx
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The selling price should be at least $1000-$1500 lower than what they are quoting you.. If you negotiate that much more off, then your payment would drop between $31-$46 per month..
Also, you didn't mention your "Due at signing" amount.. That should be 1st payment, security deposit and $625 acquisition fee plus title/registration.. Probably $1800 total at most.
regards,
kyfdx
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Lower price? Just go in and tell them that $17,000 is all you will pay.. If they say no, let your feet do the talking..
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The depreciation is (negotiated selling price - residual).
And, along those same lines.. The monthly finance charge is [(negotiated selling price + residual) X money factor]
So, your residual calculation was correct.. Now, go back and substitute a selling price for MSRP in the other calculations. (If the MSRP is $34K, I suggest using $30K as the selling price).
regards,
kyfdx
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Several posts among the 3-Series and 5-Series forums have referenced the 60-day "lock-in" period or "shelf life" of a lease deal's terms (i.e., MF & Residual).
Please allow me to test my understanding of what I've read. I ordered a 2005 330Cic (for lease) on February 28th. The car needs to be built, and the deal was negotiated based on the prevailing (Feb) BMWFS MF's and Residual for this model. I presumed that these terms were "good" through the end of April, and if the car arrived after April were subject to change. However, where the February MF and Residual did not change for March, am I correct in presuming that my terms are good for 60 days from the end of March or May 31st? Please let me know if I'm mistaken about any of this. Thanks.
pjt
Even though the program terms didn't change, the lease program that you used did expire at the end of February.. I don't think you are locked past April 30th...
I could be wrong.. You might call your dealer.. If they are charitable, and it is possible, they may be able to move your deal to March 1st.. thereby locking you until May 31st (but, I doubt it..)
regards,
kyfdx
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3 year/15K
$550 per month (includes taxes)
Based upon a cap cost of $38,200, a 57% RV and a .0020 MF.
All they want down is first month's payment + security deposit.
Thoughts?
2nd thought: That money factor looks way high.. base MF is .0008
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