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i'm sorry but if the interior is not up to snuff, and the pictures suggest so, why not rip it? 25 thou on a car that's supposed to compete beyond the value ranges and we can't even get an interior as nice as a Mazda6 or Accord?
Some folks think its whining, but its a matter of personal standards, i.e. what else you can get besides GM for the same money with a nicer interior.
The Malibu's interior has a better design although it is saddled with cheap plastic too. And I was able to tell that in a picture and confirm it when i sat in one.
the G6 is competing in a larger / higher class....vehicles as such don't warrant cheeseball interiors. GM needs to learn this.
I still like the exterior and I'm intrigued by the hardtop convertible, but if the interior isnt updated in a few years, GM won't get me to trade early on the G6.
the excuse for that is not even valid on the malibu, much less the G6.
The G6 will come standard with a DOHC HO 4-cylinder engine starting sometime next year.
Happy now, Reg?
shado : The 2.4L would be my choice only if the mileage is significantly better than the 3.5L (which I doubt). If not, what's the point? 3.5L is a real smoothie with an extra 30hp to boot.
"Interior is personal, you don't like Pontiac so you should look elsewhere for a car anyway."
I like the GTO interior just fine. what's your point?
HOW tough would it be for Pontiac to make a Mazda6 or Accord equivalent interior?
here it is then what the press will write about the G6
-attractive new exterior, refreshing for Pontiac
-marred by typical cheap GM interior
-and lack of a more refined v6 to match the likes of Nissan and Honda's v6's.
You keep panning the G6 for looking like the Mazda 6 but then you say you want the G6 to have the same interior. Even if it did, you would pan it for copying the Mazda 6. No one could ever make you happy. Mazda 6 interior is not that great anyway.
GTO costs 50% more than a G6 will.
I have to agree on the interior. Looking at the photos of the Cobalt and Solstice interiors in comparison to the otherwise very appealing G6, I have to wonder if these people talk with each other at all.
I'm sure the G6 will do quite well. It's a dramatic step up from what is there and is instantly competitive with the heart of the market. But it doesn't *clearly* beat anyone right now out of the gate, and better certainly is the enemy of good. A solid double or triple instead of the home run Accord killer it could have been.
Go to the "real world trade in values" forum and see how "valuable" manual trannies are. They are just for armchair car magazine racer's bragging rights. "My favorite car can be had with a manual". Then go buy one and take the resale hit.
"HOW tough would it be for Pontiac to make a Mazda6 or Accord equivalent interior?" If they did, people would huff "They copied". Some are never satisified with anything that the "evil" GM makes.
"the front looks like a GP" Uuh, don't expect Pontiacs to not look like each other, they have shared family resemblence, forever. Even in the the "classic 60's"
The exterior is very nice, and the 240 hp V6 6-speed is more than I hoped for, so this car is still on my list. The interior is not as nice as the Mazda 6, but the engine is better, so I'll have to wait until I can drive one to decide.
To bad it's WWD (wrong wheel drive)
bighdaddy : Manuals are great and Pontiac is putting one in the G6 which is even better, For the vast majority however, automatic is reality.
tomcat : The Pontiac "look" on the front is so much better than before. Bob has done wonders with the look of this car.
joey : 3.9L delay is disappointing but then again, I would go for the 3.5L if I was buying so it wouldn't matter to me. Spring means mid 05 model, car comes in the fall. Take a 3.5L out for a drive some time, it's a VERY good V6. Don't dump on it till you try it.
I find it funny how people believe that because it's an older technology it must be bad. Probably the same think process that margarine is better for you than butter.
it don't mean squat to someone comparing the price of a pontiac to a honda or nissan because the G6 and altima/accord will cost the same.
no one dropping 25+ on a car cares if Gm saved 300 bucks on the deal.
in fact, the inverse is true, "yeah the 3.5 MIGHT be passable but for 25-30k large the car had better come with the best powertrain possible" and that includes OHC and most likely these days vvt.
i.e. someone will go shopping, like the G6, and then go accord shopping and the honda salesman extolls the virtues of the more advanced engine and the shopper goes, ''why should i pay GM this kinda money for something that's a second tier product'.?
People are only going to care if the engine is noticeably weaker, or noisier etc... I mean come on, most people never even look under the hood of their cars more than maybe once a year. As long as it doesn't feel much different to drive the public isn't gonna car if it's OHV or OHC. Even more of those people won't even know what that means.
I think the only cars in Pontiac's lineup lately that have a high percentage of people who care about the engine and perhaps its tech are the LS1 Firebird and the Grand Prix GTP. I don't think Honda shoppers care as long as its very smooth and powerful (well, 16-25 year old males may thing VTEC = fast regardless if its 125hp).
I will test drive the 3.9L G6 and drive the snot out of it and see if the engine is smooth enough for my tastes. 200hp 3.5L version is not quick enough for me though. That car would be a step sideways rather than up from my current vehicle. If it had an impressive interior, then maybe I would be more open to it. My income has gone up 50% since I bought last, so I'm looking to spend a little more than I did on my last ride.
but if the powertrain is not great, and the interior sucks, then why even bother to look at the car? its not like I'm gonna buy a car just because its a deal. It has to be a deal, have a nice enough interior, and a pleasing powertrain. That being something appropriate to the level, brand and market of the car.
'Pontiac' = (or is supposed to) performance.
Performance includes revvability, smoothness, sound, in addition to the basics like starting and running. It also helps if the motor doesn't weigh down the front end so much the car is a front end slug when turning.
If the 3.5 and 3.9 are absolute equals or better than the market's competition then fine. Nothing in my past experience suggests any GM pushrod v6 is as nice a drive as the OHC competition. And that includes several drives in supercharged 3800 cars. Even AUTOMOBILE in their test of 30k sedans referred to the 3800's power delivery to be lazy, even if there's a lot of it. And other reviews of relevant GM product do not go out of their way to suggest the revised GM pushrods equal the OHC competition in overall performance.
Pontiac being a performance car division would see great benefit in offering the superior OHC at least as an option. Doing so offers real credibility in building image of Pontiac as a performance brand. It also improves their products. This does not interfere with them offering their 'value' pushrod v6's for those who don't care or those who want them. If someone wants a cheaper 'putt putt' that gets them around in cladding free style and gets em 2mpg better than I am all for that. But Pontiac and Bob Lutz, by your not offering a sophisticated real performance v6 engine in your meat and potatoes performance car product line you are not being taken seriously a whiff by many performance car enthusiasts in the market today. Shoppers are comparing your Pontiacs to all the other makes that go one up on you in this area. Your competition is not Chevy and Buick. Your competition is Honda, Nissan, VW and others. Your v8's somehow you have advanced your engineering so that you can make up for it with displacement and inherently balanced engine architecture. Its time for you to do a real American Revolution and stop treating American car buyers as idiots and second class citizens (by offering high class product in other countries and not in the US). Please come to your senses and make advanced tech v6 engines available in your mainstream products.
otherwise please be content with continual market share erosion in spite of your mammoth press, marketing, and advertising efforts that convince us to buy your 'step down' product.
The G6 has a beautiful, winning exterior design. Why can't the rest of the car play the part too?
Its a shame. Saabaru puts out a visually challenged econobox like the WRX that is small and costs a buttload. But they sell a buttload of them because the performance is there.
Apparently, the concept has worked out well.
I think you would really have an opportunity to 'drive the snot out of' a G6 in a 24 hour test.
vcjumper : Spending more doesn't always mean it's worth the $. I don't think a V6 Accord is worth what they are asking for it though it's a good car.
reg : I see you are continuing to be the arm chair critic as usual... haven't tried the 3.5L but it's no good, AUTOMOBILE magazine "says" so it must be true, the G6 is no good but I've never seen one nor has anyone else for that matter, everyone wants a zillion hp OHC engines and knows what's under the hood... ect ect ect..
Logic: I believe there is a 24 hour test drive option now in Canada.
"But perhaps the most crucial GM introduction at this year's NAIAS was the new Pontiac G6, the replacement for the long-in-the-tooth Grand Am. As I mentioned above, the toughest thing for a car company design team to do is to bring tasteful design to a high-volume car, and GM has managed to do it with the G6. Rather than wasting time chasing Honda and Toyota with "me-too" attempts at mimicking their designs, GM made the new G6 distinctly American and distinctly Pontiac - and unapologetically so. It's nice to see for a change. And maybe even more important, the new G6 interior is very competitive and is very tastefully done - finally! GM conducted itself as a very confident and competent automaker at the 2004 NAIAS, without even a whiff of the old arrogance that has continuously stymied its efforts in the past. And we say finally to that too."
theo : Ya.. they have actually seen the interior.
> initiative and put smoother OHC engines in
> their mainstream vehicles.
Some GM V6 engines are rough not so much because they use pushrods but because they have 90 degree blocks. I owned a '98 GP for 5 years, and the balance shaft smoothed things out so long as you kept it under 4000 rpm, but up near the redline it got pretty rough.
The 3500 and 3900 use 60 degree blocks, so this shouldn't be so much of an issue.
fine, but performance cars frequently are taken into upper revs.
auto extremist is a harsh critic and appears to think the G6 interior is ok.
the pic on this board does not convey an image of proper interior materials and textures and still the design itself has grand am batman elements to it. plus the cheap center stack buttons it shares with the Malibu.
when does the G6 hit market, if its nice inside I will admit it and eat crow. in the picture to me it looks like it sucks and GM has never produced an interior in a mainstream car that looks or feels up to par.
As of the big OHV vs OHC debate, I have had both and currently drive a 2004 3.8L Grand Prix GT and find it to be just fine. The car was priced about the same as a 4 cylinder Accord (we had an Accord 3 years ago). I'll take a OHV V6 over a base model Accord or any other 4 cyl car any day thank you. Yes the Honda V6 is a tad better, but look at the price tag, yipes!!!
> fine, but performance cars frequently are taken
> into upper revs
This comment was in reference to 90 degree V6 engines. What does this have to do with the G6?
My Intrigue at the time had a very good interior. Even now, it looks and feels great. Par means average and I would say most GM interiors are there now and some are much better like the Cobalt.
if you inferring that a 60 degree v6 engine is smooth on the basis of v angle alone I would again put back that the 97-03 Malibu and the cars it descended from with the 2.8 chevy v6 block etc. were not acceptably smooth so the basic 60 degree config did not take care of it alone there. Sorry.
As far as the Intrigue interior I do feel it was one of GM's best interiors until recently (along with the Alero), but still overall you couldn't say it was anything besides mid pack overall. There was still enough cheapness in the interior of those cars that it would look a step down from an Accord but it wasn't 'atrocious' like the Riviera/Regal.
As far as the Cobalt goes it shows some promise but the car is not out yet. I could say the same thing about the Ford 500, it has a nice interior but hey no one can buy one.
Ford 500 looks very nice. Only thing I dislike is the name.
I know it seems that I am knocking the OHV engines, I currently drive a 99 Regal GSE with the SC 3800. A very good engine if I may say so. All I am saying about GM is, that if they want to trump the competition they have to come to the party more prepared. It just seems like GM just says "good enough" when I know they can do better. By the way the Intigue was my top pick back in 99, but no Olds dealer would budge too far from sticker.
joey : OHV engines aren't why GM cars aren't selling well.