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Pontiac G6

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Comments

  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    > Let's face it, GM's High Value (what a marketing
    > term) engines are not cutting it.

    Well, I guess I don't understand how you define "cutting it."

    As I and several others have pointed out, the Malibu 3500 gets the same mileage as a 4 cylinder Camry, yet it has an additional 43 hp and 58 ft/lb torque. Free horsepower and torque is a good thing from my point of view.

    It's not as smooth as the V6 in my '03 Accord, but it's not exactly rough either. It's smoother than the 3800 in my '98 GP. Go drive one and see/hear/feel for yourself.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    "It's not as smooth as the V6 in my '03 Accord"

    Cripes, right there is an admission its not as good.

    Being second best or third best or whatever doesn't help GM's image.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    The other 8 or ten companies under 2nd would love to be 2nd. Having the BEST everything has a cost.. just look at the price tag on a V6 Accord. Chevy made the best car it could for the price target range it wanted to hit. Having an above average car for less than anyone else is quite a feat IMO. Even CR sees that!
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    it may seem to work for the chevy to go the lowball approach but the the G6 is a pontiac and will be priced higher, in line with the Hondas.

    And so many other manufacturers have no problem producing high feature mills in their cars of equal or less price and equal or more featues and room.

    It hurts GM in no way to offer as an option an engine they already have sitting on the shelf and engineered for the Epsilon chassis. As previous poster noted, the Opel version has like ten engines to pick from including a quality v6.

    this is equivalent to something as lame as not letting a buyer get a side by side fridge/freezer in their new house.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I agree it would have been nice to see a 3.6L OHC option, I would love to see it. For most though, it won't matter. So long as quality is good G6 will sell like hot cakes.

    If I was buying I would just get the 3.5L anyway. 200 hp is plenty for me.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    but isn't the Opel 3.2 V6 the same 3.2 that used to be in the CTS and continues to be used in the Saturn L Series?

    That was a decent engine in its day, but pretty dated now.

    There is no motivation in Europe for spending a lot to develop a large V6. All the larger cars there are going diesel now.

    I think you will see a 3.6 V6 option in the coupe and convertible. GM is making a new factory in Indiana to build them. I do not see Cadillac and Buick using all the production.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I read the new Buick sedans will be getting some of those 3.6L mills.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    i had thought the 3.2 in the vectra was a downsized version of the new 3.6 caddy mill.

    the new GM global DOHC v6's were to be built in 2.8l, 3.2l, and 3.6l versions, at least what I know.

    And yes there is a turbo four in the Vectra. Snappy but not overpowering. A super/turbo charged 2.4 ecotec similar to cobalt/ion redline would be a good option for the G6 too. A base G6 with a stick and turbo, I could even go for that.

    The 9-3 Linear is quite spritely and has only 175hp, but 195 lb.ft of torque early and wide. Thing is the motor revs out too. Can't imagine how nice the Vector / Aero is. Will there be a Viggen?
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    and the media.gm site has so much stuff on it, I could not find my way to the Opel engine.

    Maybe someone else here does know.
  • tomcat630tomcat630 Member Posts: 854
    Why does every GM car forum turn into "someone"'s vendetta against GM and push rod engines? Why not let others post opinions about the actaul car instead of the tired "All cars must be what I think they should be and you are stupid to think otherwise."

    G6 is getting good reviews as far as fit and finish. Posting numerous times on Edmunds doesn't change what journalists say.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Unfortunately some people can't get their heads around the concept of a good OHV engine. They think because the 3.5L's roots are in engines like the old 3.1L it must be the same.

    You are right, the press was impressed over all and I think that says a lot. Given what I have seen in my visits and drive of the 04 Malibu, I will be surprised if this is not a very nice car.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    "Why does every GM car forum turn into "someone"'s vendetta against GM and push rod engines?"

    Because they won't put anything besides that into their cars, at least for v6's.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Saw it live in Detroit.

    Looks kind of "beaky", i.e. pointy front end like the beak of a bird. I didn't particuarly care for it, though styling is still better than the Malibu.

    Honestly? People largely ignored it. The GM cars that got attention were the 3 small sporty ones: Saturn Curve, Pontiac Solstice, and Chevy Nomad. Now those were cool.

    Besides that, the 'vette got attention, but actually those 3 were together and drew more attention than the Vette did.

    The G6 was ignored, seriously. I was able to get an unobstructed look at it for a long time.

    With the Mustang, I had to elbow and fight to get a 3rd row view. Had to take the picture by holding the camera up in the air and guessing.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh, absolutely. But it was largely ignored. For a debut, that's not good.

    These were the Industry Preview days, most folks there were dealer employees or media. Autoweek had a design forum so it was packed with their staff.

    -juice
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    What ever you say, but it wasn't ignored but the press. In fact it was top one of the top 5 cars I saw in various newspapers over the last week. Full color on the cover of the business section in one paper also!
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    I see what you mean. It looks like an 03 Sunfire, sorta. Some family resemblance, but personally I would want to send the Sunfire off to boot camp and come back as a full-grown Solstice coupe or something.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Then GM is doing good PR.

    I guess people were not voluntarily going up to see it.

    Solistice is gorgeous. The designer was there, with his Mom!

    -juice
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    I never expect mob scenes at the meat and potato cars. The vette, 'stangs get a lot of window shoppers. We all wish we could have one, now back to reality. But remember, you need us critics for the GM vendetta to keep these boards alive. From the auto show to a real world test drive and showroom stock you're talking 8 to 12 months of waiting. All I have is GM's track record to go by. Without us complaining, you'd still see that 3.1L!
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    I don't know what color gray that interior is, but GM loves that color that screams "Cheap!"

      Whay can't the new 4-cyl and super 6-cyl be available at launch? At least have the big engine there, with the 200HP six, and the old 4, then bring in the new 4 for the 2-3 year facelift.

      DrFill
  • chevyguy657chevyguy657 Member Posts: 216
    the GP. After this week's HIDEOUS NHTSA scores for the GP, a lot of GP-intenders may well wait for the G6.

    I've driven an '04 Malibu, and the 3.5 is just fine, OHV or not.

    My concern with the G6 is pricing. The Malibu sedan tops out at $25.7, which is at least $2K too much ($1,000 cash back, I know), so the well-equipped G6 will hit $28 or 29, I bet. The panorama roof alone will go for at least $1500, I'm sure.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    "so the well-equipped G6 will hit $28 or 29, I bet"

    which underscores why a TSX or Accord/Altima is a raging deal vs. this pushrod G6.

    more i look at the production pics, the less appealing it looks vs. the concept car. More 'lost in translation'. The G6 concept was so muscular and graceful. The production version.........isn't.

    As far as pushrods, a midwest whiner sent in a letter to Car and Driver regarding pushrods and the 3.5 on the Malibu. Loved C/d's response. Something to the effect of, the difference is obvious if you listen to the engines in comparison. LOL, duh.

    Even M/t's family sedna comparo pointed out the 3.5 was thrashy.

    If the well equipped G6 is 28 or 29k why would they try to sell it with pushrods?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nonsense, the 3.5l is not "thrashy", that is a gross exaggeration.

    In fact it makes torque at lower revs than most multi-cammers, so you don't need to drive it like you stole it. Effectively, with fewer revs it could be driven more smoothly/quietly.

    TSX is a 4 banger and it would be screaming near redline to keep up with these quiet V6s.

    You really should drive it before using all these 2nd hand opinions.

    I agree that the design didn't quite meet up to expectations.

    -juice
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    3.5L is not thrashy. I would agree it doesn't sound like a OHC engine, but otherwise the power is smooth and the sound level is comparable with other cars in class. DRIVE ONE!!

    A 28K G6 is mearly an estimate but even if true, the car would likely sell for $24-25K and that ain't bad for a 240hp beauty!
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    I doubt it will be around 24-25K for the 240HP G6..why?? Then who would buy a Malibu with only 200HP!?! It'll probably be around 240HP. Whew, looks like the market is crowded with cars these days! :)
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    who knows, its all speculation at this point
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    "It'll probably be around 240HP"

    I meant it'll probably be around 28K for a 240HP G6, because having two midsizers in the same segment (one with more HP) wouldn't coincide well. :)
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    Remeber the inflation rate over the next year and half before you even could get this 3.9L that's still vaporware. I'm taken bets the engine will be delayed. Lutz will say the Mexican 3.5L is good enough!
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    current projections. The factory is under construction now.

    There is no way GM will want to have a new facility at anything but full operational capacity.

    Where do you get Lutz saying the 3.5 is all GM wants for the G6? Certainly not in any of the dozens of articles I have seen.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Given the 3.9L is based on current mills, I don't see any reason for a delay.

    3.9L if like the 3.5L should be one nice motor. I can't wait to try one.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    They annouced a low tech bore out 2 years before it's due. I guess GM can handle that. There's already the G6, Minivans and I assume Buick LaCrosse, plus other upcomming models all waiting on this engine. Lutz better put those intake manifold gaskets on straight.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    a low tech bore out with displacement on demand. Wonder when the so called high techs will follow suit?
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    Don't both Chrysler and Honda have DOD on tap for models in 2004?
    http://www.bsmotoring.com/2003/nov22_1.htm
    http://www.hondabeat.com/news_details.php?ID=112
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    I will keep Honda in mind.
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    Honda will beat GM to the punch on DOD, and it will be teamed with vvt and dohc.

    "Lutz better put those intake manifold gaskets on straight"

    LOL....still chuckiling, my father in law is not! It cost him 1200 bucks!
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    Write to us about the food in Mumbai.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    since they're taking all our technology jobs.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    I read the LaCross will get the 3.6L from the CTS, not the 3.9L.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    If Honda is not bringing it here or using it in Japan, a logical inference is the Donda DOD does not work correctly with the Honda anti-pollution devices.
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    THe hybrid version is also to have DOD and is due this fall. It will have equivalent or better performance to the Accord v6 and Civic equivalent fuel economy according to Honda. Sounds like a very good combination. No trip to Hyderabad necessary.

    I haven't seen expected fuel economy numbers for the GM 3.9L DOD, but maybe they will be the same as the smaller non-DOD 3.5L given the 8% savings estimate.

    I thought GM said DOD was only feasible on OHV engines?
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    OK, first of all, the G6's 3900 will not have DoD. It will be "disabled" at launch. Whatever.

    Second, GM said it was much easier to do DoD on OHVs. Honda already sells a DOHC DoD in Japan, I think GM is just making excuses.

    Lastly, I am going to make a bold prediction. In maybe 2-3 years, I am going to guess that GM will drop the 3500 and make the 3900 (VVT, BTW) standard on GT. I think they will then put the 18-cylinder 3900 VVT DoD in for the GXP trim level, good for 270 horses. By then most, if not all, trim levels will get the new 6-speed auto. That part is fact.

    BTW the coupe will be out in mid 2005, and the convertible more than a year after the sedan. Neither will debut until next year's round of autoshows, but GMI does have a sneek peak.
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
    did not say that DOD only worked on OHV engines. Rather, it said because OHV engines have fewer moving parts, the chance for something going wrong is less.
  • joey2brixjoey2brix Member Posts: 463
    Cadillac's V8-6-4-2 of the late 70's inspires me with confidence in GM's DOD program. The thought of inflicting uneven wear in an engine pains me.
    My suggestions of dumping the weight of those cast iron blocks go ignored. Probably save more gas overall. DOD is about as dumb as those engines that turned off at stop lights and restarted as the accelerator pedal was touched. (Even Honda played with this looser!) The Cadillac 3.6 DOHC makes the 3.9L an obsolete project for some 3rd world nation (3.4L = China, 3.5L = Mexico). Put VVT on the 3.6L for Cadillac and give the other divisions a de-tuned version. Let's start using 21st century engine technology GM!
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    People who get hung up on the OHV / OHC should just looks elsewhere. If you need to have that "new technology" then fine, but there is NOTHING wrong with GM's new OHV engines. They are more efficient, cheaper to build, reliable and refined.

    The 3.9L is actually a perfect engine for this car because the torque that will come from this engine will smoke any other car in it's class.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    "the torque that will come from this engine will smoke any other car in it's class."

    That doesn't necessarily mean it will outaccelerate the other cars. We have to wait and see.

    Honda seems to be serious about Hybrid technology ever since Toyota made the Prius. I'm excited about the Hybrid Accord. If it can maintain the sportiness the V6 has while giving great gas mileage, then almost nothing will be this car's con. :)
  • logic1logic1 Member Posts: 2,433
  • z9z9z9z9z9z9z9z9 Member Posts: 101
    > "It's not as smooth as the V6 in my '03 Accord"
    >
    > Cripes, right there is an admission its not as
    > good.

    Thanks for quoting me out of context.

    Did you read the rest of my post?
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    "I thought GM said DOD was only feasible on OHV engines"

    they said that because there wasn't any OHC engines they made that they could test it on......

    AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW :)))))
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    probably not. too many posts to read.
  • setzersetzer Member Posts: 127
    is the new Grand Am called the G6 because it has a V6?
  • breetai52breetai52 Member Posts: 91
    That was the original story, but now they say it will be available with the 170HP I4 as well as a V6.
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