I don't think the Endeavor is that bad looking. It is no worse than the VUE and no worse than the 05 Grand Cherokee. I saw a loaded Endeavor in black and it looked pretty sharp. It's a car based SUV and could offer some competition to the Nox. I would consider it but there are no dealerships that are convenient.
Does the Equinox have the Driver Info Center in the Radio like the Malibu? Its the same radio so I figured it did, but I sat in one the other day and the radio didn't have the info, menu, or enter buttons on it. Also, does the Equinox radio feature the keyfob personalization that the Malibu has? For instance, if I have keyfob 1 and listen to 104.1 and someone with keyfob 2 drives it and changes it to 107.1, then I drive it with keyfob 1 will it go back to my radio station? I know these can be found out at the dealer, but the dealer is over an hour away so its hard to just run there in my free time.
How can I find out if the orange is gone for good. If they got rid of the orange then I am not getting an equinox. I want orange for my school. Its not the only reason to get the car, but the last reason to push me this way vs another way. The only reason I am considering GM is because we get a suppliers discount.
The owners manual doesn't mention any of the Malibu's personalization features through the radio. As far as the fob remembering the radio stations, I think that it might be safe to assume that it does. A majority of GM vehicles have dones this for years now.
bigdaddycoats, thanks for the information on the color change. I guess I will look else where for a car. We get this supplier discount. Any recommendations on cars/suvs/minivans from GM in the 18-23K range. Thanks
we are considering a new Nox LT with fwd/traction control. how does the awd work when transfering power? if you lift the 2 right or left side tires off the ground, will the tires still on the ground get power to get you moving? i can understand the front to rear power application, but what about the side to side?
Joeybrix, GM card works at Saturn up here. You should take a drive up and buy a VUE here.
Bigdaddy, is it the same orange the Grand Prix comes in?
Gee35, GM makes OHV engines to keep costs down. The cost savings is around $800 U.S. per vehicle. The theory is, give people more features on a vehicle rather than on the the engine which 99% of people don't care much about so long as it works well. There was a big article about GMs engine plan in the paper a while back. To be honest it make a lot of sense to me. I love my 3800 and I certainly got a lot more bang for my buck with a Grand Prix vs an Accord.
The Nox AWD is a strong candidate to replace my wife's Envoy next Month. I figured that a loaded Nox with a couple thousand down would cost me $320-350 per month on a 48 month lease. Today I saw an ad for a loaded Volvo XC90 for $369 per month for 42 months with $1800 down. Now I'm thinking for a few bucks more, I get an upscale vehicle with good safety features and options like headlight wipers, side airbags, heated seats, sunroof, etc. I checked out the interior and it's in a different league from the Nox. So now I am thinking I should seriously consider the Volvo. This is going to be an issue for GM if they don't price the Nox like a Chevy. Any thoughts?
With domestics losing marketshare each year to cars that cost a little more but are higher quality, I would go out on a limb and say there's something awry with their philosophy. There are those that appreciate a little refinement and technology under the hood and not a adaptation of a decades-old OHV engine.
GM may be able to get away with that in the truck segment for a while longer, but with the inport dominance of the car and now the small SUV market, status quo ain't gonna cut it. They are gonna have to spend some developement dollars on something other than a nifty sliding seat.
I emailed GM complaining about the points here's their stupid answer:
Thank you for contacting the GM Cardmember Services Redemption Center regarding Saturn vehicles. We understand your concern regarding Saturn's participation in the GM Card Earnings Program. Saturn has its own "no hassle, no haggle" pricing philosophy and an integral part of that pricing philosophy is suggesting the most competitive MSRP possible. This lean approach to pricing precludes Saturn's participation in the GM Card program.
Yea, this lean approach is why they're loosing money and giving "buying incentives" to bring the MSRP down that no one wants to pay!
I saw the Vue RedLine and Nox at the NY autoshow today. Funny, all the Nox hood latch levers where disconected, Chevy's afraid you'll to see the "High Value" slug. All the Nox's had Gray leather that was dirty and beat up already. I just realized Chevy's too cheap to put grab handles anywhere in the car. Rear seat does not fold flat and the sliding rear seat is more of a gimick. No option/price stickers on any of the cars but all were LT's. Like I said, the Nox is eye candy on the outside, GM bland on the inside.
I actually like the Vue RedLine better. The dash is the same as the Nox and the steering wheel is a better 3 spoke design. The seating had a nice leather trim with cloth inserts that had a silly pattern. Headrests were smaller, easier to see out the back. Not having the package shelf and towers gives you a nice square loading area.
I'll probably still be stuck with the Nox unless Saturn gets put on the GM card.
Also your cost savings on the Chinese V6 doesn't hold water. Stupid GM should beg Honda to sell them more V6's. They might make more money. From my earlier post:
Zeen is right about the Nox's pricing: nothing special. Sure, right now it's a new model and sales are hot, but sales need to be hot more then just 2 or 3 months. I saw no one looking at the Maxx, Malibu displays.
I do think that the 3.4L will be a pretty good engine for this vehicle. But if they were to put a better engine in it, why would they go to Honda for a better engine? They already have better engines: 3.2L DOHC "High Feature" with 220hp and 220lb-ft, 3.5L OHV "Value" with 200hp and 220lb-ft, and the 3.6L DOHC "High Feature" with 255hp and 252lb-ft. Also, the only reason the Vue has the Honda engine is because GM gave Honda some Diesels and the vehicle the Honda engine was going to be in got canned, so they put it in the Vue.
Honda has it's own diesel now so it doesn't need Izuzu's. GM couldn't meet LEV II emissions on the old 3.0L from England that the Vue was using. GM's engine capacity is in poor shape because Cadilac's turf on high end engines can't be given to Chevy or Saturn. Honda makes a more cost effective high output engine without the UAW wages and benefits. Period. My link showed that the Chinese V6 is costing MORE then a domestic V6 and we the consumer are paying for it in high prices! Everyone raves about the 3.5L in the 'Bu. Why didn't they plan that engine for the Nox over a year ago? Makes you wonder where are they gonna get 3.5L's for the new mini-vans and G6's in the Fall. GM is probabaly too busy making political friends in China and Mexico. The engine plant in England is getting shut down this year. Engines will probably come out of Eastern Europe like the Vue's broken CVT tranny. GM thinks it's more important to set up low wage 3rd world suppliers rather then give us a great value product.
If your leasing, you should not put any money down. If the vehicle is stolen and not recovered or totaled in an accident, any money put down is lost as it is not covered be either auto insurnace or gap insurance.
Murfdog, I did wonder why you were in TX, but a lot of Vols did go to the Alamo iirc. I spent a few years in TN and saw a lot of orange. Not just clothes and cars - I guess you can even get orange coffins now!
I suspect that the orange was discontinued due to a quality issue with that paint. Im sure they wouldnt discontinue a popular color like this for no reason. My understanding of paints (very limited) is that different color paints have different viscosity's and sometimes colors will drip and run moreso than others. If that is the case it is better to discontinue that paint. This rig looks good in any color and that is a hallmark of excellent design.
Saw the Nox again yesterday while at the NY Auto show. This time I was able to really compare it to other similar vehicles side by side. One obversation is that the dash and seats and center console are really cheap looking compared to many other vehicles. The leather seats were getting wrinkled and worn looking (unlike most other vehicles with the same amount of kiesta traffic), the center dash piece in cheap painted hard plastic looked like a toy and it just seemed cheapo compared to even the Escape/Tribute, Endeavor, Highlander etc. It's a shame since the exterior is so well-designed. So I've decided that unless the price comes down significantly, I can't justify leasing the Nox if for a few bucks more (and maybe not even more) I can get something with more quality. And if I lease the Escape, I'll save significantly.
Joeybrix, given that Honda just recalled all the Honda 3.5L powered vehicles for transmission failure issues I somehow think one might be better off with a GM engine/ transmission combo. Honda has had more than it's share of auto transmission issues. You also seem fixated on the anti-China thing which getting a little old. I wonder if the 3.5L VUEs will get recalled also?
Gee35, I'd be surprised if more than 5% of the population even knows the difference between an OHC and an OHV. Market share loss has come because of past poor quality and poor product, not engines. I didn't trade my old Cutlass for an Accord for engine type, I traded it because the Cutlass broke down all the time. I came back to GM this time because of value and the fact GM has quality under control again. I suspect many others will follow as GM slowly rolls out new product.
Mr Bots, I think GM has lots of other engines it could have used but since this revised 3.4 seems to be getting good reviews it would seem that it's fine as is.
Zeen, I think the plastic on the center of the dash could be better. That was one thing I didn't like either. The 2005 Escape is better there I think.
"Gee35, I'd be surprised if more than 5% of the population even knows the difference between an OHC and an OHV"
Maybe not. But I bet they know the difference between 185 hp and 250 hp out of nearly the same displacement with similar fuel economy. You are right that most people don't care about what the design is but when you can design a 2.4L normally aspirated DOHC 4 cylinder that puts out as much HP as a 3.4 V6, there's a problem there. Time to literally go back to the drawing board. This is a car based SUV not a truck. Nobody is pulling stumps with this thing.
As far as GM having quality under control. I have to beg to differ on this product. From what I've seen this vehicle is all about the exterior. The interior is crappy. From the dash material (which you are facing whenever you drive it) to the leather on the seats. I hope they make some running changes because I still want one. But they are going to HAVE to change the engine and interior materials. Or make it WAAY cheaper. But I see the rebates are coming. There may be hope yet.
And as far as the 3.5L recall. Notice it's a voluntary recall by Honda. It's not a governmant mandate. Honda claims it's recalling 600,000 cars for a problem it noticed in 10 vehicles. Now I will again say CLAIMS. But how many failures do you think it would take before GM did the same. And as you said, let's wait and see if Saturn recalls vehicles.
The Honda V6 and tranny still have a much better track record then the 3.4L leaker. I'll take it any day. The comments on the Nox dash are 100% on the money. That cheap silver painted plastic will look like crap in a few years, even worse then the Vue. I don't think the use of two tone light color plastics help. Dark gray/black dashboards like the Tribute are much better.
If OHV engines are so inefficient how is it the new Malibu 3.5 gets better mileage than 4 cylinder Accords or Camrys?
The 2.4L has similar HP as the 3.4L but far less torque. Torque is what matters.
As far as recalls go, GM does far more in the way of voluntary ones these days than ever. You can bet if there were only 10 problems with the Hondas they would not recall 600,000+ trucks!
If you are so down on GM why are you here? Seems to me from your bio you want an Infinity anyway? The Equinox is not suppose to be a luxury car. It's a 20K truck.
on the 'Bu. You can do anything with gearing: light car, big engine, tall 4th gear. Big deal. Again, this 3500 is so great and the 'Bu is in the same price range as the Nox, wouldn't you put the bigger engine in the bigger vehicle? I think G35 and myself are saying that the Nox got short changed with the 3.4L. It needs a better power to weight ratio like the 'Bu got. The Nox is not an 18K car, it bases at 21K and should have better features like a more powerful engine: OHV or OHC. Chevy doesn't even offer you the option. I go as far to say that the Malibu is a better value then the Nox, just a lot uglier.
Dan, you also comment on many threads and I will continue to speak my mind where ever I feel, just as G35 has. I don't agree with you, but I want you to have the right to say it. Do you expect the Nox to be without recalls? Let's give it a few months.
i will be purchasing the second nox to arrive in wyoming in about 2 weeks. the first will be an LT, which i don't want. mine (hopefully) is to be a galaxy silver awd ls with 1sb(Cruise control, tinted glass, floor mats, Luggage crossbars), k05 block heater, py0 aluminum wheels, vd9 front and rear body color and fog lights, and v92 trailer equipment. msrp is $25,045, minus $1000 rebate, minus about $1500 for gm supplier discount, minus another $500 gm card dollars...i'm looking at about $3000 off msrp for a total of $22,045. are there any owners on this board yet? i'm looking forward to the nox but i will miss my tracker.
The 3.5 gets 1 mpg less than the Accord's 4 cylinder city and highway. Efficient isn't quite what I would call it though. The Accord 3.0 V6 puts out 240hp and gets the same gas mileage as the 3.5L in the Malibu. That's efficiency. Also look at the 3.5L in the VUE vs the 3.4L in the NOX. 250hp/5800 vs 185hp/5200. And 242 lb ft/4500 vs. 210/3800. And even more telling is the fuel economy with the 3.5L VUE getting 20/28 vs the estimated numbers for the NOX being 19/25. OHV efficiency????
The I4 Accord has a 5 speed auto vs the 4 speed in the Malibu increasing the effective torque of the engine. Therefore the I4 Accord is only .5 sec off the 0-60 for the Malibu. We won't talk about V6 vs. V6 performance there huh? So if torque matters, just add a gear.
There are other incidences of Honda voluntarily recalling cars that had very few claims. Distributors, ignition switches, fuel tank strap bolts come to mind. So Honda is relatively proactive when defects are found to be due to poor design or defective components.
I didn't buy the G35 because I found the interior to be cheap for a $35000 car. And as many have mentioned here, the interior of the NOX is a little lacking for $22,000-$29000 MSRP. That's not "down on GM" that's making an observation and telling the truth.
Just sat in the new Chevy Equinox, absolutely love the outside and the 17 inch wheels but the interior is another story. Sat in the back seats, there is no cushion at all - would even be uncomfortable on a long ride for children. Very disappointed in the dash and center piece. Have yet to drive one but at this point I've lost interest. It's a shame, it is a beautiful truck. Also, why doesn't Chevy offer a better drivetrain warranty than 3yrs /36000 miles. That is another reason not to buy it.
The Escape is also a low end SUV and yet its interior is quite nice. It has a much nicer look and feel than the Nox. If Ford can do it, so can Chevy. As for the Nox engine, I drove the vehicle and found it to be smooth and adequately powered, with decent acceleration off the line and very good mid-range torque. No complaints from me in that category. Of course the Escape was more impressive with the 200hp V6 and it's a lighter vehicle. In any event, after pricing the Volvo XC90 and comparing the lease prices, it's only a few bucks more than the Nox and it is a beautiful vehicle. A loaded Nox would lease for around $339 with $2k down. The loaded XC90 leases for $369 with $1800 down. As for the Escape, a fairly loaded XLT is in the range of $329 with the same options as the Nox...AND you can get side airbags without a problem. Good luck with your Nox Infinia. Let us know how you like it. Sounds like you got a very good deal.
Zeen, I agree, the new Escape does have a nicer interior. It's on our shopping list also. I'm just a little weary of Ford from our Exploder experience.
Joeybrix, You have every right to speak your mind. Sorry if I sounded rude. I'm just confused by your comments is all. You seem so critical of the Equinox and the China engine yet you want to buy one? I just don't understand your logic is all.
Gee35, Doesn't really matter what gets an engine to the mileage, the fact is you can buy a V6 Malibu for the same money as a 4 cyl. Accord or Camry and have lots more smoother power and better fuel economy. A V6 Accord costs thousands more than a V6 Malibu so I would hope it's better in some way.
Since the Accord has a 5 speed tranny there is not the sensation of "lots more power" in the Malibu. Probably why the Accord still outsells it even though it costs more. There are many other reasons not to buy a Malibu other than the engine combo. But that's another forum.
Also you better check your numbers again, the Malibu V6 does not get better EPA numbers than the Accord. In fact the upper-tier V6 Malibus are 4 mpg off the I4 Accord in highway. About the same as the 240hp V6 in the Accord. Interesting.
When you compare the apples to apples VUE to the NOX it shows the glaring shortcomings of the 3400 OHV V6 in the NOX. THAT'S what I'm saying. Not to mention the 3.5L Nissan DOHC engine.
My friend is a Saturn salesman. He said GM/Saturn decided orange is on it's way out and replaced it with that electric lime. His dealership has pleaded with GM to bring back the orange because everyone is asking for it now. Not one lime green saturn has sold yet. It has nothing to do with paint quality. Orange is one of the hottest colors on stylish cars now. GM is clueless. As far as the Equinox goes, I saw it at a dealer and immediately was turned of by the Malibu cloth interior and then I noticed the DRUM brakes. The salesmen said it was a base model. OK, so I saw some more outside with $29,000 MSRP's and they had drum brakes as well. As long as GM keeps doing stuff like that, I can't take them seriously. A $29,000 vehicle should not have drum brakes. If, as a top heavy corporation you feel the need to cut costs...fire some paper pusher suits, don't keep cheaping out on your products and expect people to keep buying your product just because it's American.....errrr Chinese.... uuuummmm?
Really my only point was you get more for the money in a Malibu. Yes the Accord is a better seller, it always has been, no big news there. Mileage numbers, 4 cyl Accord 24/34 V6 Malibu 23/32. Similar, not better as I had said before, my apologies.
Glaring short comimgs of the 3.4L in the Equinox, I don't see it. The Equinox costs less (at least it does here in Canada) starting at msrp $26500 (cdn) vs a V6 VUE at $29300. Match them up with comparable features and they are closer BUT you can negotiate 10% off a Equinox and a VUE has price that is fixed. Don't get me wrong, the 3.5L honda engine is likely better but you won't ever see it in a Equinox so you better get a VUE (its a 5 year Saturn deal only) if you want one. The VUE got the engine because of a another cancelled Saturn project. No other small SUV has anything close to it under the hood either.
The NOX tops out over $29,000. But it has the only OHV engine in the class, no rear disk brakes, and glaring interior materials issues from the dash materials to the seat fabric.
I may still buy a strippo one for trips since with rebates and discounts I may be able to get in one for a song. But no more dreams of the loaded, sunroofed, leathered, XM'ed version. It just ain't worth it.
GM was smart, the NOX styling will carry it for the next few months. It's sad that GM only has one platform, two cars in this popular segment. With the price of gas, I think there will be a bigger demand for smaller SUV's and crossovers like the Freestyle.
Dan: I'm in the market for a small SUV that I can use my GM Card points on. What options do I have? Only the Nox, as Vue is not in the program for U.S. buyers. I don't like mini-vans, especially the new rehashed ones or the RDV. GM doesn't even offer a crossover like the Pacifica or Freestyle. Not even a sport wagon. Importing parts is the wave of the future, but do it to get some technology you don't have here. GM is bringing the low output 3.4L from China because of political dealings. Lower costs means you make more money. Why would you bring in a V6 that cost more then it does to make in the US if you could buy cheaper engines from Honda or Ford for that matter. (Benz used to buy GM trannies.) I'm angry because there's no logic to how GM works.
The no haggling concept doesn't seem to be working for Saturn. In the US you can get $3500 off a Vue right now. So the public's "perception" does not agree with those fixed prices, hence, the 100 day stock pile of Vue's. Even the Honda V6 won't help the known problems of Saturn build quality.
Zeen: The XC90's a great SUV but you're going into the major league when we're talk'n single-A teams like the Nox. Last year people were hunting and waiting months for the XC90's when they first came out. I doubt you'd get those kind of lease deals then. The Nox will have that new car flurry for a few months as the candy lovers pay over value for the car. The deals will come. To bad GM's got no leasing deals right now just 0% loans or big cash backs. The Red Line Vue would be a blast, if you like the styling and if it had a great 3yr lease rate.
Gee35, I doubt GM is planning on selling lots of top end Equinoxes. Like most of these small SUVs, the lower end - mid level models make up the vast majority of sales. In base form, the Equinox is great value like you say. We would likely get a base LT, it has everything you really need.
Joeybrix, I see virtually no incentives on the VUE right now and it seems to be selling well (up here anyway) at MSRP. Of course you can use the GM card on Saturn here. One always has a choice in life I always say. If you aren't going to be happy with an Equinox for all your own reasons, don't buy one. I certainly wouldn't no matter if I had GM dollars or not. I realize GM dollars expire over time but that's life. There are lots of choices in this segment, if I were you I would look elsewhere and be happy with what you own. Just my 2 cents. :-)
Equinox is a good looking car. However, it still seems to have a lot of GM issues (OHV engine, drum brakes, cheap interior), which is reflected in the high lease cost. It's obvious GM thinks this sucker will depreciate like a rock. That's why it makes no sense to lease an American car. Having said that, it makes you wonder why someone would buy one...
It is sad to say, but unless you keep an Equinox for ten years, it would be cheaper to buy a more expensive Honda / Toyota / or even Subaru. Just keep in mind it is not all Japanese cars though, because Mitsubishi, Suzuki, and even Mazda don't hold their value very well either.
Leasing American cars sometimes makes more sense than buying. The trick is to find a vehicle where the manufacturer is using a high residual in order to attract business. They do this periodically, usually after the excitement of a new model wears off. I learned my lesson when I leased an '02 Envoy when it had just come out. After a few months, the lease prices went way down because of a combo of incentives and higher residual.
Not only is the residual adjusted but also the lease rates (I have seen 0%) and lease cash (I have seen as high as $5000 cdn) make leasing a great option on higher depreciating cars. I would only buy if I was holding more than 7 years. Our Bravada is leased, I paid cash for our Grand Prix.
I see a lot of people here complaining about the Equinox engine, dash board, brakes and a few other things. My question is, have you all driven the Equinox?
I tested one and I thought that compared with our 2002 Vue, the Equinox felt more solid, drove smoother and had better pick up power. Granted we don't have the new 3.5L, but I would say over all the Equinox is a better vehicle.
With the details....Brakes are rear drum, so they are on lots of SUV. They work fine. Engine is OHV, seems smoother than the 3.0L Vue. Plastics are about the same, better and worse in some ways.
We still love our Vue and have no regrets but if I was to choose between the two vehicles today, I would pick the Equinox.
You're making it too easy for the Nox. Comparing it to the old '02 Vue really isn't fair. The 3.0L is in the trash so compare to the '04 model. Other then the Nox, Vue and the Grand Vitara, I can't find a mini-SUV with rear drums. Don't the Nox and Vue share dashboards so I don't realy expect much difference. Nox wins in styling. I would never consider the plain Vue with the Honda V6, but with the RedLine package, it's a rocket that's not too ugly.
G35: I doubt rentals will see the Nox before next year and then you gotta wait another year before you'll see one in the used lot. By then there will be tons on dealer lots unsold. Chevy will have to do an SS version with a real motor to move them. Remeber Vue sales were already in trouble in '03. Anyway a new CRV will be out by then.
I drove the Nox and agree that it drives very well. I could live with the drum brakes and the OHV, but after comparing the interior to that of other SUV's, I think I would draw the line there. I suspect that the silver center dash will look like crap after a year of wear and tear.
I'm taking myself out of the market til they crash test this thing. EVERY sedan without SAB got a poor. It's not like I don't have three cars in the driveway or anything.
Joey2brix, VUE sales were up about 22% in 2003 over 2002, how is that "in trouble"? I agree, the 3.0L was not a great engine but it was decent from what I have read. Rear discs are preferable I suppose but really not needed on an SUV.
Gee35, I think the VUE did ok on side impact.
Zeen, I wondered about the wear on the silver also. I used to have a TRS-80 computer in that color and the silver wore off. I would hope there is a coating of some kind on it. :-)
Comments
Effective 3/22/2004, the following changes will be made to the Vehicle Order Guide:
Color and trim section-Deleted all mention of (89U) Fusion Orange Metallic as it is no longer available.
Week of 2/23/2004
And do you want this Chevy specifically because it rhymes with Knoxville? Equiknox - I bet even Peyton would drive one.
Steve, Host
(btw, Eli's coming <g>)
Bigdaddy, is it the same orange the Grand Prix comes in?
Gee35, GM makes OHV engines to keep costs down. The cost savings is around $800 U.S. per vehicle. The theory is, give people more features on a vehicle rather than on the the engine which 99% of people don't care much about so long as it works well. There was a big article about GMs engine plan in the paper a while back. To be honest it make a lot of sense to me. I love my 3800 and I certainly got a lot more bang for my buck with a Grand Prix vs an Accord.
Any thoughts?
GM may be able to get away with that in the truck segment for a while longer, but with the inport dominance of the car and now the small SUV market, status quo ain't gonna cut it. They are gonna have to spend some developement dollars on something other than a nifty sliding seat.
Thank you for contacting the GM Cardmember Services Redemption Center regarding Saturn vehicles. We understand your concern regarding Saturn's participation in the GM Card Earnings Program. Saturn has its own "no hassle, no haggle" pricing philosophy and an integral part of that pricing philosophy is suggesting the most competitive MSRP possible. This lean approach to pricing precludes Saturn's participation in the GM Card program.
Yea, this lean approach is why they're loosing money and giving "buying incentives" to bring the MSRP down that no one wants to pay!
I saw the Vue RedLine and Nox at the NY autoshow today. Funny, all the Nox hood latch levers where disconected, Chevy's afraid you'll to see the "High Value" slug. All the Nox's had Gray leather that was dirty and beat up already. I just realized Chevy's too cheap to put grab handles anywhere in the car. Rear seat does not fold flat and the sliding rear seat is more of a gimick. No option/price stickers on any of the cars but all were LT's. Like I said, the Nox is eye candy on the outside, GM bland on the inside.
I actually like the Vue RedLine better. The dash is the same as the Nox and the steering wheel is a better 3 spoke design. The seating had a nice leather trim with cloth inserts that had a silly pattern. Headrests were smaller, easier to see out the back. Not having the package shelf and towers gives you a nice square loading area.
I'll probably still be stuck with the Nox unless Saturn gets put on the GM card.
Also your cost savings on the Chinese V6 doesn't hold water. Stupid GM should beg Honda to sell them more V6's. They might make more money.
From my earlier post:
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6997&sid=17- 3&n=156
Zeen is right about the Nox's pricing: nothing special. Sure, right now it's a new model and sales are hot, but sales need to be hot more then just 2 or 3 months. I saw no one looking at the Maxx, Malibu displays.
GM is probabaly too busy making political friends in China and Mexico. The engine plant in England is getting shut down this year. Engines will probably come out of Eastern Europe like the Vue's broken CVT tranny. GM thinks it's more important to set up low wage 3rd world suppliers rather then give us a great value product.
I went to the REAL UT. University of Texas.
I could not tell if the fusion orange was dark like our burnt orange or light like tennesse or something in the middle.
I wanted to see it up close in person to see how it looked. Oh well.
There is always the burnt orange hummer. You see quite a few around here in Austin with their metal longhorn decal on the back.
equinox got rid of it
saturn does not list it as an available color on its website for the vue like some suggested
even the hummer2 no longer allows you to order it. I checked the website.
I wonder if they are having problems with the paint as far as long term wear.
Steve, Host
My understanding of paints (very limited) is that different color paints have different viscosity's and sometimes colors will drip and run moreso than others. If that is the case it is better to discontinue that paint.
This rig looks good in any color and that is a hallmark of excellent design.
Also tested the VUE Redline, an AWD version, and between the two, the Vue wins hands down. Much better looking and a lot more fun to drive.
Gee35, I'd be surprised if more than 5% of the population even knows the difference between an OHC and an OHV. Market share loss has come because of past poor quality and poor product, not engines. I didn't trade my old Cutlass for an Accord for engine type, I traded it because the Cutlass broke down all the time. I came back to GM this time because of value and the fact GM has quality under control again. I suspect many others will follow as GM slowly rolls out new product.
Mr Bots, I think GM has lots of other engines it could have used but since this revised 3.4 seems to be getting good reviews it would seem that it's fine as is.
Zeen, I think the plastic on the center of the dash could be better. That was one thing I didn't like either. The 2005 Escape is better there I think.
Maybe not. But I bet they know the difference between 185 hp and 250 hp out of nearly the same displacement with similar fuel economy. You are right that most people don't care about what the design is but when you can design a 2.4L normally aspirated DOHC 4 cylinder that puts out as much HP as a 3.4 V6, there's a problem there. Time to literally go back to the drawing board. This is a car based SUV not a truck. Nobody is pulling stumps with this thing.
As far as GM having quality under control. I have to beg to differ on this product. From what I've seen this vehicle is all about the exterior. The interior is crappy. From the dash material (which you are facing whenever you drive it) to the leather on the seats. I hope they make some running changes because I still want one. But they are going to HAVE to change the engine and interior materials. Or make it WAAY cheaper. But I see the rebates are coming. There may be hope yet.
And as far as the 3.5L recall. Notice it's a voluntary recall by Honda. It's not a governmant mandate. Honda claims it's recalling 600,000 cars for a problem it noticed in 10 vehicles. Now I will again say CLAIMS. But how many failures do you think it would take before GM did the same. And as you said, let's wait and see if Saturn recalls vehicles.
The 2.4L has similar HP as the 3.4L but far less torque. Torque is what matters.
As far as recalls go, GM does far more in the way of voluntary ones these days than ever. You can bet if there were only 10 problems with the Hondas they would not recall 600,000+ trucks!
If you are so down on GM why are you here? Seems to me from your bio you want an Infinity anyway? The Equinox is not suppose to be a luxury car. It's a 20K truck.
Again, this 3500 is so great and the 'Bu is in the same price range as the Nox, wouldn't you put the bigger engine in the bigger vehicle? I think G35 and myself are saying that the Nox got short changed with the 3.4L. It needs a better power to weight ratio like the 'Bu got. The Nox is not an 18K car, it bases at 21K and should have better features like a more powerful engine: OHV or OHC. Chevy doesn't even offer you the option. I go as far to say that the Malibu is a better value then the Nox, just a lot uglier.
Dan, you also comment on many threads and I will continue to speak my mind where ever I feel, just as G35 has. I don't agree with you, but I want you to have the right to say it. Do you expect the Nox to be without recalls? Let's give it a few months.
The I4 Accord has a 5 speed auto vs the 4 speed in the Malibu increasing the effective torque of the engine. Therefore the I4 Accord is only .5 sec off the 0-60 for the Malibu. We won't talk about V6 vs. V6 performance there huh? So if torque matters, just add a gear.
There are other incidences of Honda voluntarily recalling cars that had very few claims. Distributors, ignition switches, fuel tank strap bolts come to mind. So Honda is relatively proactive when defects are found to be due to poor design or defective components.
I didn't buy the G35 because I found the interior to be cheap for a $35000 car. And as many have mentioned here, the interior of the NOX is a little lacking for $22,000-$29000 MSRP. That's not "down on GM" that's making an observation and telling the truth.
In any event, after pricing the Volvo XC90 and comparing the lease prices, it's only a few bucks more than the Nox and it is a beautiful vehicle. A loaded Nox would lease for around $339 with $2k down. The loaded XC90 leases for $369 with $1800 down.
As for the Escape, a fairly loaded XLT is in the range of $329 with the same options as the Nox...AND you can get side airbags without a problem.
Good luck with your Nox Infinia. Let us know how you like it. Sounds like you got a very good deal.
Joeybrix, You have every right to speak your mind. Sorry if I sounded rude. I'm just confused by your comments is all. You seem so critical of the Equinox and the China engine yet you want to buy one? I just don't understand your logic is all.
Gee35, Doesn't really matter what gets an engine to the mileage, the fact is you can buy a V6 Malibu for the same money as a 4 cyl. Accord or Camry and have lots more smoother power and better fuel economy. A V6 Accord costs thousands more than a V6 Malibu so I would hope it's better in some way.
Also you better check your numbers again, the Malibu V6 does not get better EPA numbers than the Accord. In fact the upper-tier V6 Malibus are 4 mpg off the I4 Accord in highway. About the same as the 240hp V6 in the Accord. Interesting.
http://www.hondacars.com/models/specifications.asp?ModelName=Acco- - - rd+Sedan
http://www.chevrolet.com/malibu/specs.htm
When you compare the apples to apples VUE to the NOX it shows the glaring shortcomings of the 3400 OHV V6 in the NOX. THAT'S what I'm saying. Not to mention the 3.5L Nissan DOHC engine.
It has nothing to do with paint quality. Orange is one of the hottest colors on stylish cars now.
GM is clueless. As far as the Equinox goes, I saw it at a dealer and immediately was turned of by the Malibu cloth interior and then I noticed the DRUM brakes.
The salesmen said it was a base model. OK, so I saw some more outside with $29,000 MSRP's and they had drum brakes as well.
As long as GM keeps doing stuff like that, I can't take them seriously. A $29,000 vehicle should not have drum brakes. If, as a top heavy corporation you feel the need to cut costs...fire some paper pusher suits, don't keep cheaping out on your products and expect people to keep buying your product just because it's American.....errrr Chinese.... uuuummmm?
V6 Malibu 23/32. Similar, not better as I had said before, my apologies.
Glaring short comimgs of the 3.4L in the Equinox, I don't see it. The Equinox costs less (at least it does here in Canada) starting at msrp $26500 (cdn) vs a V6 VUE at $29300. Match them up with comparable features and they are closer BUT you can negotiate 10% off a Equinox and a VUE has price that is fixed. Don't get me wrong, the 3.5L honda engine is likely better but you won't ever see it in a Equinox so you better get a VUE (its a 5 year Saturn deal only) if you want one. The VUE got the engine because of a another cancelled Saturn project. No other small SUV has anything close to it under the hood either.
I may still buy a strippo one for trips since with rebates and discounts I may be able to get in one for a song. But no more dreams of the loaded, sunroofed, leathered, XM'ed version. It just ain't worth it.
Dan: I'm in the market for a small SUV that I can use my GM Card points on. What options do I have?
Only the Nox, as Vue is not in the program for U.S. buyers. I don't like mini-vans, especially the new rehashed ones or the RDV. GM doesn't even offer a crossover like the Pacifica or Freestyle. Not even a sport wagon. Importing parts is the wave of the future, but do it to get some technology you don't have here. GM is bringing the low output 3.4L from China because of political dealings. Lower costs means you make more money. Why would you bring in a V6 that cost more then it does to make in the US if you could buy cheaper engines from Honda or Ford for that matter. (Benz used to buy GM trannies.) I'm angry because there's no logic to how GM works.
The no haggling concept doesn't seem to be working for Saturn. In the US you can get $3500 off a Vue right now. So the public's "perception" does not agree with those fixed prices, hence, the 100 day stock pile of Vue's. Even the Honda V6 won't help the known problems of Saturn build quality.
Zeen: The XC90's a great SUV but you're going into the major league when we're talk'n single-A teams like the Nox. Last year people were hunting and waiting months for the XC90's when they first came out. I doubt you'd get those kind of lease deals then. The Nox will have that new car flurry for a few months as the candy lovers pay over value for the car. The deals will come. To bad GM's got no leasing deals right now just 0% loans or big cash backs. The Red Line Vue would be a blast, if you like the styling and if it had a great 3yr lease rate.
Joeybrix, I see virtually no incentives on the VUE right now and it seems to be selling well (up here anyway) at MSRP. Of course you can use the GM card on Saturn here. One always has a choice in life I always say. If you aren't going to be happy with an Equinox for all your own reasons, don't buy one. I certainly wouldn't no matter if I had GM dollars or not. I realize GM dollars expire over time but that's life. There are lots of choices in this segment, if I were you I would look elsewhere and be happy with what you own. Just my 2 cents. :-)
It is sad to say, but unless you keep an Equinox for ten years, it would be cheaper to buy a more expensive Honda / Toyota / or even Subaru. Just keep in mind it is not all Japanese cars though, because Mitsubishi, Suzuki, and even Mazda don't hold their value very well either.
Used market is great to buy in these days though!
I tested one and I thought that compared with our 2002 Vue, the Equinox felt more solid, drove smoother and had better pick up power. Granted we don't have the new 3.5L, but I would say over all the Equinox is a better vehicle.
With the details....Brakes are rear drum, so they are on lots of SUV. They work fine. Engine is OHV, seems smoother than the 3.0L Vue. Plastics are about the same, better and worse in some ways.
We still love our Vue and have no regrets but if I was to choose between the two vehicles today, I would pick the Equinox.
Don't the Nox and Vue share dashboards so I don't realy expect much difference. Nox wins in styling. I would never consider the plain Vue with the Honda V6, but with the RedLine package, it's a rocket that's not too ugly.
G35: I doubt rentals will see the Nox before next year and then you gotta wait another year before you'll see one in the used lot. By then there will be tons on dealer lots unsold. Chevy will have to do an SS version with a real motor to move them. Remeber Vue sales were already in trouble in '03. Anyway a new CRV will be out by then.
Gee35, I think the VUE did ok on side impact.
Zeen, I wondered about the wear on the silver also. I used to have a TRS-80 computer in that color and the silver wore off. I would hope there is a coating of some kind on it. :-)