Only Escape and Subaru passed. I think the SAC's had to be standard on the model provided. I thought Saturn took GM card points for a two month period last year. Just about every Saturn plant has had a few week shutdown to reduce inventory. Tenn. Vue plant was shut down two weeks this past March.
GM probably wants you to buy those plastic wood, cheesey looking stick-on dash trim pieces from the dealer for a few hundred!
That since almost all vehicles have some incentives, there will be some on the Equinox soon if not already. My salesman said 0% for 36 months or 2.9% for 48. Not much yet, it's about the same for the VUE.
I just returned from "five hours" of testing and negotiating for a new Equinox LT FWD and a Saturn Vue V6, FWD. (it was a harrowing experience)!!!!! The test drives were very similar except for the more added power of the 250hp Honda Vue engine. I have to agree with several previous posters on this board that the interior of the Nox was on the "cheap and plastic side". I liked the ride of the Vue much better and now for the negotiating. The Saturn dealer offered me 9500.00 for my 2002 Chev.Tracker LT,FWD, V6.{this coincided with the KBB trade-in value). They also had a $3500.00 rebate and a $1000.00 cash allowance off the MSRP. The Chevrolet Nox dealer offered me $7500.00 period.They wouldn't bend on that trade-in price.(they said they use the Galves book) The Nox also has a $1000.00 rebate known as the Truckfest allowance. Both vehicles were similarly equipped with the packages or accessories I wanted. The bottom line was the Nox dealer wanted 15,700.00 plus tax and tags. The Vue dealer( which I accepted after another $200.00 more for the Tracker $9700.00) was 11,000 and my car. That was the out the door price including tax, tags, and doc fees. I sign the papers tomorrow and the car is being tire swapped at this moment for the 17"wheel pack]. I have $1500.00 on my GM points card(which I will save)...but...with 3500.00 rebate and another 1000.00 cash allowance, $4500.00 total was too much to turn down, plus $2000.00 more for my trade-in).
Congratulations. Given the same numbers I would go with the VUE also. The deals are better on the VUE right now in the U.S. I guess. Up here, there is little in the way of incentives on the VUE so it would likely be a better deal to get a Equinox given the negotiating room. I guess the VUE sells better here. I had heard Saturn dealers were more flexible with trade ins so I guess your deal shows that to be true.
In addition to the $1000 GM Truck cash, I heard they are now offering another $1000 on leases for existing GM lessees. From what I've read above, it appears that the prices are coming down on the Nox probably a lot faster than the dealers would have hoped. It's a shame they couldn't produce the side airbags though, especially after the report on the crash tests.
is running 3 shifts plus Saturday OT now. Chevy wants it's #1 sales volume leader back. They probably want the Nox in dealer lots and on the road before all the competitor's '05's start hitting the street. SAC will show up in June production.
I've only seen one dealership with NOX's in any real numbers. They were all base models. It was running a big sale on them. The silver ones look good strippo.
The trim levels were chosen by the dealers. GM has guidelines on percentages for AWD/FWD, etc for different areas of the country which makes sense. Strippo might make sense for fleet sales but options raise the price and add to the dealers profit also. GM was stupid not having SAC ready on day one since GM cars have been getting poor side impact ratings.
I was wondering if anyone out there had any real world experience with loading cargo in an Equinox. I recently had a chance to drive one and it seemed like a pretty nice vehicle. I think it would take awhile to get used to the steering, but it seemed better than on the VUE. The cargo area looked a little on the small side particularly since the strut towers take up so much room. I know the back seat moves fore and aft and that should help. Guess I'll have to go back to a dealer and "practice load" some goodies in the cargo area. Thanks for any help.
I just read a post on another board of a Nox owner who's gotta take his car back, no refrigerant was put in the AC system. Great quality control GM! I guess the Canadians don't turn on the AC until July or August. Thanks, I was just convinced to wait a year before thinking about a Nox.
Joey2brix, Most cars get poor side impact ratings, not just GM. SABs would have been nice right away though. By the way, I have a first year (made in the first month) Grand Prix GT and it's been nearly perfect.
Ahokie, Cargo area is not that big but the shelf helps a lot in my opinion. If you want room, you will need to go full size, the small SUVs are all lacking in this area.
Same 3800 engine and reskinned panels. I think the body type was redone in '97 when I bought my Bonneville. There were no incentives that year cause it was a new model. So after 6 or 7 years on a car line there shouldn't be any problems!
Joey2brix, Grand Prix was not changed substantially (probably only 50-60% new), but the same could be said about the Equinox. It's a Saturn with Chevy clothing and a proven 3.4L under the hood. Only real wild card is the 5-speed transmission.
There's no track record for the 3.4L from China here in the US. The only US track record we have for the 3.4L is it's a leaker. I'd have more trust in the Aisin tranny since a similar one is used in the ION already.
FYI Saturn is asking for 5-7K more Honda V6's since sales are up on the VUE, especially RedLine model. Give me a proven US made engine from Honda any day over an engine made for the 3rd world.
Malibu being recalled for a safety belt anchor bolt issue.
Was that I don't think "Acceptable" is ...err...acceptable. Not when safety is a priority. It's like buying a car with mediocre handling when you want to canyon carve. Just doesn't make sense.
What's up with the antiquated 3.4 engine in the Equinox? Take the vehicle with 4 riders and their gear up over 7000 feet, or try to pass at 70 mph with the same load and your doomed! It isn't just about torque and cubic inches...at speed and at elevation you need horsepower! 185 hp out of 3.4 liters is pathetic! Honda gets 250 hp out of the same cubes!
jcmainman ::: You won't run out of power with the Nox. It has plenty judging from my test drive. The 3.5L in the Vue is better but I'd be more than pleased with the older tech. I used to get hung up on that, but I liked the Nox.
joey::: I agree with some of the earlier comments, buy a Vue, skip the points and be happy. We love ours.
Anybody who's road tested the Nox is of course probably taking a quick spin by themselves or with a deal in the car. Let's wait for the reports from people going on vaca with 4 people, the dog, and a load of camping gear in the back.
Hey Vuefor2, as a Saturn faithful, if you'd like to donate $3500 to me to cover my GM points, I'd gladly join the Saturn Family.
Joey2brix, I think the point is, buying something you don't seem to want because you have a coupon so to speak may only lead to your unhappiness.
3.4L has had some issues in the past but I understand they have been addressed. No worse than the Toyota sludge problems in numbers from what I can see. In terms of power, I rented a Venture Van in Vancouver a few years ago and we drove 4 people with luggage through the mountains with no problem.
I'm sure the 3.4 can be traced back to the V8 the pared it from. Just like the 4.3 they recently stopped using. For all GM's might, they sure are in the 70's when it comes to engine design.
It's all about efficiency and light weight these days. An iron block OHV V6 has got to be the antithesis of efficiency.
"The bottom line is in the actual driving, which is where I find little meaningful difference between OHCs, DOHCs, or OHVs. That's what I'm talking about."
Real Wheels (Warren Brown) (Washington Post - registration link, but if you search Google News for Real Wheels, a free link will pop up).
The 3.4L has no heritage to the old V8 engines from the 70s. A brand new engine was built in 1980 (still pretty old) that was a 60 degree, pushrod, 2.8L V6. It was enlarged from that to 3.1L then to 3.4, and now to 3.5L and 3.9L. A quick note, if these are inefficient engines, how come the 3.5L OHV in the Malibu gets better milage(23/32) than Honda's 3.0L OHC (21/30) and Toyota's 3.3L DOHC (20/29)?
Honda puts out 240hp vs 185hp for the 3.4. Toyota also puts out 225 hp.
I'm sure they more than match the 3.4L if they detuned them. But then they wouldn't compete in the segment. Kinda like the Malibu. Additionally the the 3.4 in the Malibu has TWO different EPA ratings. http://www.chevrolet.com/malibu/specs.htm Check the specs on the LT. Ooops.
And if you can't discern the difference between a Iron block/head OHV 2.5L like the old GM Tech4 vs the newer OHC designs from Nissan and Toyota, you deserve what you get.
Why not compare the 3.5 in the VUE vs the 3.4 in the NOX. That'll show you the real difference in efficiency. Or maybe the 200hp OHC engine in the Escape.
Those are the different specs for the sedan/maxx and are just labelled wrong as the LS/LT. Also, torque numbers are where the acceleration is not horsepower. Both the 3.5L in the Malibu and the 3.4L in the Nox are competitive when you look at the torque ratings. The Nox creates more torque at a lower rpm than the Escape while getting better milage.
The Malibu engine is not competitve when you consider the competition has 5 speed autos vs. the Malibu's 4 speed.
Nice of you not to mention the Vue vs. Nox comparison. Just glossed right over it. Especially when that's about as apples to apples as you can get. 3.4 OHV vs 3.5 OHC. Not even the most developed OHC engine either in that it's a SOHC design. An I-vtec DOHC engine would slaughter even those numbers.
In accelleration the 3.0 in the Accord would wipe the floor with the Malibu. Not even close.
The 2005 Escape gets the same mileage as the NOX. Has 4 wheel disc brakes, a much nicer interior, and 15 more hp. It also weighs 200 lb. less than the NOX and has side curtains available now. Must be the difference between aluminum alloy 3.0 vs Iron.
I know a lot people throw out the be a dumb car buyer: stick the key in and go. It's got 4 tires, who cares OHV OHC, etc. But I'll always bring up even a soccer mom, who never opens a hood, were to test drive a Malibu or Nox might even question: Why lighter, small car gets bigger motor then mini-SUV that we might go camping and want to tow a jet ski, etc? I know my soccer mom wife would get a grin smok'n the tires on a Vue.
3 motors, all in the wrong cars. Fact: the China 3.4L is unproven, and overpriced. Just a political bribe to the Chinese government that GM wants us to pay for. I say boycott the NOX!
Fact- GM is setting itself up to make a lot of money in the fast-growing Asian (China) market. I am sure that there were some politics involved but in the long run it will help GM become more profitable. I cannot remember where I just saw this or the exact number but I believe GM is making 4 or 5 times (or more) the amount of money on a car sold in China vs. a car sold in North America - correct me if I am wrong on this one. You can boycott the Nox, but I imagine it will sell very well for GM - I would guess 100k plus per year. It may be a little overprice but incentives will kick in and level out the field. I am not trying to be argumentative so please don't think I am.
Nothing wrong with GM making money from China, they got plenty from our trade deficit. It's just right now they still had an under capacity factory and they want to keep China's gov happy so they export extra V6's that I read cost GM 1K more then a domestic V6. We're paying for that! GM could have purchased 100K V6's from Honda for the Nox and stick the 3.4L in the Vue. We'd get a great Nox made in the US of A. And the Vue would still have been faster then the old 3.0L.
I'd like the see the sales numbers after a few more months. I think the Nox will outsell the Malibu and should have had the bigger 3.5L.
Tribby gets worse mileage. Nox has nicer exterior & is way quieter on the hiway. I have owned 2 tributes. I get 26 mpg Canadian on the hiway ..nox should get 30 ish. The trib has wicked road noise on the hiway..the nox i drove was way quieter. The trib has a lot nicer inside but nox is roomier. Acceleration is close but trib is only slightly quicker in spite of hp rating.
Better yet, they should have put the 3.6 V6 or the upcoming 2.8 V6 into the Nox - now that would have been sweet. I also read that it cost GM more to produce the 3.4 in China than here. Why would that be the case? I don't seem to remember the reason.
The 3.5L in the Malibu is a very efficient engine, I have also seen it mentioned several articles. The torque measure vs the OHC engines from Toyota/Honda is not very different and the 0-60 times aren't either. Also keep in mind the huge price differential folks!
The 3.4L is an oldie also, but it's been heavily revised for the Equinox application and I'm satisfied with that. It would appear the Equinox 3.4L is not quite as efficient as the 3.5L in the Malibu however.
Bottom line : As was said earlier, the real question is how it drives and performs, not how it's made and what it's made of. People obsessed with OHCs should simply shop elsewhere and the other 95% of the population who don't care can be happy.
wasn't mentioned, but I'd bet it was all the customization that had to be done to the motor for emmisions, probably by hand and with some parts that had to be shipped from the US. The emmision levels in China are a joke compared to US regs. So probably a line change was done just for the US bound engines. Probably "better quality" motors had to be hand picked and assembled with better grade parts then for their domestic market. I seriously doubt the quality level of these engines could match what comes out of the US.
In fact a smaller percentage ends up choosing the low tech junk coming from GM's factories every year. The companies that are growing have NO obsolete technology under the hood. Especially Toyota which is knocking the big 3 off one by one. Heck even Ford had gone OHC in the truck V8's. 95% of who??? I mean only domestics are still trying to pass these decades old engines off on the public and then they wonder why they have to rebate and cash back to move this rubbish.
That being said...I still want an Equinox. But it'll have to be CHEAP. Saw em advertised for $18500 this week though. Deals ought to be SWEET this winter. Even the Colorado has grreat cash back deals. And it has an OHC engine.
You are wrong to think people buy Toyotas simply because they have an OHC motor under the hood.
As on who has done a lot of reading on the topic and speaks from experience, the reason I left domestics back in the 80s was because of quality and design. I guarantee if you went to a mall and asked people coming in what was under the hood, 95%+ could not tell you if it was an OHC or not. Coming back to a good old 3800 has been wonderfull vs the 4 cyl Accord I was going to buy with the same money!!!
This subject is way off topic however, if you believe that is why people buy 'imports', that's fine. It's just not reality.
I never said that was the only reason. But advanced engine technology is a result of Japanese cars striving to be more reliable, efficient, and all around better while mainstream American cars have been also rans. Sure the 3800 has been a great engine throughout the decades, but what good is a great engine in a car with a falling headliner, door panels falling off, inoperative window mechanisms, leaky sunroofs, etc. In fact, up until a few years ago the 3800 was barely puting out the horsepower of the Accord 4 cylinder. And torque output would be debatable since the 3800 requires much more support for it's weight increasing the weight of the car beyond what the Accord's engine would need. Must be why the Accord and Camry's first engines were a 2.0L and the fact that the 3.8 was in the competition didn't even matter.
As was said earlier, Oldmobile was selling millions of cars until the Japanese made them look obsolete starting in the late 70's early 80's. The best small cars to grace domestic lots have all been imports. Chrysler imported the Mitsubishi Mirage, GM tapped Toyota, Suzuki, and now defunct Daewoo products. Fords Fiesta and Festiva were Mazda and Kia products. The domestic alternatives were the Omni, Cavalier, and Escort. Give me a break.
As I said, engine technology is a result of an overall strive to make a better vehicle which has resulted in the imports taking a larger and larger share of our marketplace.
"Beijing may tighten its automobile-emission standards to the Euro II level from the beginning of next year, one year ahead of schedule, according to sources with the Beijing Environmental Protection Bureau."
This means that newly registered cars in China will be cleaner than ones in the US and Canada.
Without the semi-related bantering, most threads would be dead. We need to start hearing from real world Nox owners but little news yet. FYI, I caught an episode of NOVA last week on the growth of China's industry. That link you posted how much better Euro II level is, but be aware that Europe is trying to implement Euro V, so China's probably not even using unleaded gas and catalytic converters yet. Their smog makes LA look like a paradise island.
"People don't buy imports just because of the engines"
That is what you implied in your previous post. The only real engine issue that would drive people away from a OHV is reliability and they have proven very reliable and cheap to maintain over the years.
The past it the past. The Equinox is a throrughly modern design aside from the engine and even that is heavily revised. 3 of our last 7 vehicles have been GM and both have been as good if not better than the Hondas, Fords and Nissans we have had. Like I said, I used to avoid "domestics" but I see the quality is back and value is better than almost anything else.
My GMC Envoy was trouble free for 3 years. Sure there were some recalls but what car didn't have any? As for the Nox, reliability may be great and I did like the way it drove (plenty of power for me), but what turned me off was the interior. For the lease cost of a loaded Nox, for a few bucks more I am getting a loaded Volvo XC90 that looks gorgeous inside.
@ 55% local content. The reliability of Kia's are not on anyones hit list. I think China's factories are probably way below democratic South Korea's. The Nox engine could be the next Yugo or Soviet Volga.
Is like painting a turd gold and trying to charge people for it. The interior is cheap, the brakes are behind the standard, and the engine has class trailing power and fuel economy. If that's where you want to spend your hard earned $25K that up to you.
As far as what I meant by the "people buy import because of the engine" statement, we were talking about engines. We all know people buy imports for other reasons. Empirical data shows they make better cars. Especially long term. We can anecdote all day long but when you look at surveys done by people whose job it is to compile such data, the premium Japanese brands come out on top.
I'll be the first to admit I really don't care about the OHC talk since it means nothing to me, but I did want to ask for an opinion since I do intend to purchase the Equinox most likely regardless of whether the engine is chinese,korean, brazilian or american. Maybe it's because I'm not American myself that I don't care for these things. Certainly the engine isn't mind blowing but it beats what you would get in Belgium do to taxes being linked to HW believe it or not! (Forget a Hemi over there). Anyway I'm curious if anyone could identify what tires GM has on the pics you see here at Edmunds. I'm thinking 17s if not even 20s but I doubt it. I'm thinking of just getting one with 16 inch wheels and maybe putting 18inch ones after. Any thoughts? I'm having a hard time finding a Nox with the LT SD package, no leather or leather seats and 17inch with the trailer package. Personally a car is 90% looks for me and if I didn't care about looks I'd certainly be driving a Vue already...but I think it looks nasty, just like a RendezVous,the Aztek or Endeavor for that matter.
Here's the link I'm referring to, in other photos there is a zoom on the tire but not enough to distinguish it.
These pictures are almost a year old. I agree the pre-production rims look bigger then 17" but I think they are very wide and those tires are much wider then 235's. (Notice how curved the spokes are to make the offset) Probabaly 9" wide rims, which GM would never put on a cheap car like this. I would take a look at the Vue RedLine and use those 18" with the 55 aspect ratio or you will be rubbing the tires to an early expensive death. I mean the Chevy 17" upgrade is only $300 for 17" rims and tires with 60 aspect and a simple change a dealer can do.
I don't think the displacement tax is the issue. Why would you want an oversized, overweight HEMI engine that only gets 15MPG when your gas is $5-6/gal, when you get the same HP with turbo, multi-valve, variable timming, light aluminum engines? I guess you have not experienced the joy of the huge flat spot in the upper power band on a pushrod GM V6 when you try to accelerate to pass someone. Please test one and let us know what you think.
At least Ford has a nice 3.0L OHC V6 that has 200 HP and 200lb of torque that they will put in the common man's car. Their 3.5L V6 will have 250HP/torque just like the Honda's, Nissans, etc.
Americans are wastful spoiled cowboys. We live in the past with our Hemi V8's AGAIN from the 1960's, as gas is going to $3/gal. The consumer needs to push the car makers to give us better safety, economy, value, efficency, etc.
Most OHV engine tuned for "low end torque" end up having "high rpm wheeze" since they usually have narrow powerbands. Unfortunately when you nail the gas the engine rpm's rise not fall.
Comments
I thought Saturn took GM card points for a two month period last year. Just about every Saturn plant has had a few week shutdown to reduce inventory. Tenn. Vue plant was shut down two weeks this past March.
GM probably wants you to buy those plastic wood, cheesey looking stick-on dash trim pieces from the dealer for a few hundred!
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/side/s0301.htm
$3500.00 rebate and a $1000.00 cash allowance off the MSRP. The Chevrolet Nox dealer offered me $7500.00 period.They wouldn't bend on that trade-in price.(they said they use the Galves book) The Nox also has a $1000.00 rebate known as the Truckfest allowance. Both vehicles were similarly equipped with the packages or accessories I wanted. The bottom line was the Nox dealer wanted 15,700.00 plus tax and tags. The Vue dealer( which I accepted after another $200.00 more for the Tracker $9700.00) was 11,000 and my car. That was the out the door price including tax, tags, and doc fees. I sign the papers tomorrow and the car is being tire swapped at this moment for the 17"wheel pack]. I have $1500.00 on my GM points card(which I will save)...but...with 3500.00 rebate and another 1000.00 cash allowance, $4500.00 total was too much to turn down, plus $2000.00 more for my trade-in).
ENJOY!
FYI www.cami.ca is updated and back on-line.
Strippo might make sense for fleet sales but options raise the price and add to the dealers profit also. GM was stupid not having SAC ready on day one since GM cars have been getting poor side impact ratings.
Ahokie, Cargo area is not that big but the shelf helps a lot in my opinion. If you want room, you will need to go full size, the small SUVs are all lacking in this area.
http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_smsuv_current- - .htm
It would be worthwhile to wait for the tests and the bags.
Gee35, The Malibu got acceptable with SABs also.
FYI Saturn is asking for 5-7K more Honda V6's since sales are up on the VUE, especially RedLine model. Give me a proven US made engine from Honda any day over an engine made for the 3rd world.
Malibu being recalled for a safety belt anchor bolt issue.
jcmainman ::: You won't run out of power with the Nox. It has plenty judging from my test drive. The 3.5L in the Vue is better but I'd be more than pleased with the older tech. I used to get hung up on that, but I liked the Nox.
joey::: I agree with some of the earlier comments, buy a Vue, skip the points and be happy. We love ours.
Hey Vuefor2, as a Saturn faithful, if you'd like to donate $3500 to me to cover my GM points, I'd gladly join the Saturn Family.
3.4L has had some issues in the past but I understand they have been addressed. No worse than the Toyota sludge problems in numbers from what I can see. In terms of power, I rented a Venture Van in Vancouver a few years ago and we drove 4 people with luggage through the mountains with no problem.
I'm sure the 3.4 can be traced back to the V8 the pared it from. Just like the 4.3 they recently stopped using. For all GM's might, they sure are in the 70's when it comes to engine design.
It's all about efficiency and light weight these days. An iron block OHV V6 has got to be the antithesis of efficiency.
Real Wheels (Warren Brown) (Washington Post - registration link, but if you search Google News for Real Wheels, a free link will pop up).
Steve, Host
Toyota also puts out 225 hp.
I'm sure they more than match the 3.4L if they detuned them. But then they wouldn't compete in the segment. Kinda like the Malibu. Additionally the the 3.4 in the Malibu has TWO different EPA ratings.
http://www.chevrolet.com/malibu/specs.htm
Check the specs on the LT. Ooops.
And if you can't discern the difference between a Iron block/head OHV 2.5L like the old GM Tech4 vs the newer OHC designs from Nissan and Toyota, you deserve what you get.
Why not compare the 3.5 in the VUE vs the 3.4 in the NOX. That'll show you the real difference in efficiency. Or maybe the 200hp OHC engine in the Escape.
The Malibu engine is not competitve when you consider the competition has 5 speed autos vs. the Malibu's 4 speed.
Nice of you not to mention the Vue vs. Nox comparison. Just glossed right over it. Especially when that's about as apples to apples as you can get. 3.4 OHV vs 3.5 OHC. Not even the most developed OHC engine either in that it's a SOHC design. An I-vtec DOHC engine would slaughter even those numbers.
In accelleration the 3.0 in the Accord would wipe the floor with the Malibu. Not even close.
The 2005 Escape gets the same mileage as the NOX. Has 4 wheel disc brakes, a much nicer interior, and 15 more hp. It also weighs 200 lb. less than the NOX and has side curtains available now. Must be the difference between aluminum alloy 3.0 vs Iron.
3 motors, all in the wrong cars. Fact: the China 3.4L is unproven, and overpriced. Just a political bribe to the Chinese government that GM wants us to pay for. I say boycott the NOX!
You can boycott the Nox, but I imagine it will sell very well for GM - I would guess 100k plus per year. It may be a little overprice but incentives will kick in and level out the field.
I am not trying to be argumentative so please don't think I am.
I'd like the see the sales numbers after a few more months. I think the Nox will outsell the Malibu and should have had the bigger 3.5L.
The 3.4L is an oldie also, but it's been heavily revised for the Equinox application and I'm satisfied with that. It would appear the Equinox 3.4L is not quite as efficient as the 3.5L in the Malibu however.
Bottom line : As was said earlier, the real question is how it drives and performs, not how it's made and what it's made of. People obsessed with OHCs should simply shop elsewhere and the other 95% of the population who don't care can be happy.
That being said...I still want an Equinox. But it'll have to be CHEAP. Saw em advertised for $18500 this week though. Deals ought to be SWEET this winter. Even the Colorado has grreat cash back deals. And it has an OHC engine.
As on who has done a lot of reading on the topic and speaks from experience, the reason I left domestics back in the 80s was because of quality and design. I guarantee if you went to a mall and asked people coming in what was under the hood, 95%+ could not tell you if it was an OHC or not. Coming back to a good old 3800 has been wonderfull vs the 4 cyl Accord I was going to buy with the same money!!!
This subject is way off topic however, if you believe that is why people buy 'imports', that's fine. It's just not reality.
As was said earlier, Oldmobile was selling millions of cars until the Japanese made them look obsolete starting in the late 70's early 80's. The best small cars to grace domestic lots have all been imports. Chrysler imported the Mitsubishi Mirage, GM tapped Toyota, Suzuki, and now defunct Daewoo products. Fords Fiesta and Festiva were Mazda and Kia products. The domestic alternatives were the Omni, Cavalier, and Escort. Give me a break.
As I said, engine technology is a result of an overall strive to make a better vehicle which has resulted in the imports taking a larger and larger share of our marketplace.
This means that newly registered cars in China will be cleaner than ones in the US and Canada.
China.org.cn
Interesting threads the last few days and y'all keep sucking me in too. But let's try to get the posts focused on the Equinox again. Thanks,
Steve, Host
That is what you implied in your previous post. The only real engine issue that would drive people away from a OHV is reliability and they have proven very reliable and cheap to maintain over the years.
The past it the past. The Equinox is a throrughly modern design aside from the engine and even that is heavily revised. 3 of our last 7 vehicles have been GM and both have been as good if not better than the Hondas, Fords and Nissans we have had. Like I said, I used to avoid "domestics" but I see the quality is back and value is better than almost anything else.
As for the Nox, reliability may be great and I did like the way it drove (plenty of power for me), but what turned me off was the interior.
For the lease cost of a loaded Nox, for a few bucks more I am getting a loaded Volvo XC90 that looks gorgeous inside.
As far as what I meant by the "people buy import because of the engine" statement, we were talking about engines. We all know people buy imports for other reasons. Empirical data shows they make better cars. Especially long term. We can anecdote all day long but when you look at surveys done by people whose job it is to compile such data, the premium Japanese brands come out on top.
Anyway I'm curious if anyone could identify what tires GM has on the pics you see here at Edmunds. I'm thinking 17s if not even 20s but I doubt it. I'm thinking of just getting one with 16 inch wheels and maybe putting 18inch ones after. Any thoughts? I'm having a hard time finding a Nox with the LT SD package, no leather or leather seats and 17inch with the trailer package. Personally a car is 90% looks for me and if I didn't care about looks I'd certainly be driving a Vue already...but I think it looks nasty, just like a RendezVous,the Aztek or Endeavor for that matter.
Here's the link I'm referring to, in other photos there is a zoom on the tire but not enough to distinguish it.
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2005/chevrolet/equinox/100370220/photo- gallery.html?pg_type=SUV&imgsrc=&tid=edmunds.n.researchla- nding.keyvdps..1.Chevrolet*
I don't think the displacement tax is the issue. Why would you want an oversized, overweight HEMI engine that only gets 15MPG when your gas is $5-6/gal, when you get the same HP with turbo, multi-valve, variable timming, light aluminum engines?
I guess you have not experienced the joy of the huge flat spot in the upper power band on a pushrod GM V6 when you try to accelerate to pass someone. Please test one and let us know what you think.
At least Ford has a nice 3.0L OHC V6 that has 200 HP and 200lb of torque that they will put in the common man's car. Their 3.5L V6 will have 250HP/torque just like the Honda's, Nissans, etc.
Americans are wastful spoiled cowboys. We live in the past with our Hemi V8's AGAIN from the 1960's, as gas is going to $3/gal. The consumer needs to push the car makers to give us better safety, economy, value, efficency, etc.