Honda Odyssey Future Models

stickguy

I'm guessing the official news release will be at the end of this week, based on an earlier posting that the dealers can do their first allocation orders (or whatever they are called) on Friday, 7/16. You would think they would have to be given detailed info by then (although this being Honda, maybe not), and have to be able to tell customers something if they are to order them a van.

I just want one configured like the current EX-L, with the split fold seat and roll down middle windows and newly standard (I hope) moonroof. Keep the power tailgate and laser cruise, etc. for the touring crowd, and keep the price even with the '04s. Really, I'm not asking for much.

dudleyr

I am really hoping the moonroof is not standard, as I don't want it. If it is an option we can both get the vehicle we want - how does that sound?

ash1

If you know Honda, moonroof is standard EX and above.

stickguy

Honda doesn't do options, just models. So, if it is standard on an EX (or EXL), then you either take it or drop down a level to an LX. That's one reason I thought it might (and stilll might) come only on the touring. But, traditionally the EX has been the level where the moonroof is standard.

If it is standard on the EX and you want the other EX equipment, just leave the shade closed and you won't even know it's there.

ateixeira

Moonroof might add a grand or so to the price. Maybe a bit less if they spread the costs a bit.

But it's bigger and has more technology and features, so the same price as the current EX is asking for a lot.

-juice

dudleyr

Actually Honda does do options. Options on the EX are Nav, Leather and RES. These are stand alone items! Hopefully they will put the sunroof on the Touring or make it another stand alone option.

stickguy

they aren't really options, they are separate models. And I don't think Honda will start making multiple permutations of each (with/without moonroof).

Don't be surprised if the price holds pretty firm, due to the competitive nature of the business. The Sienna was a huge jump forward (in size and features) when it was redesigned, and I think it actually went down in price!

Honda isn't going to be too happy with sales if EX-Ls jump up to 32K or so, even with the moonroof added. That's where the Touring should be.

High end Siennas IMO are overpriced, but LEs (really comparable to a Ody EX) can be a good value.

dudleyr

"they aren't really options, they are separate models"

They accomplish the same thing as they are available independantly. Just semantics.

ateixeira

Not really - I don't think you can get both RES and Nav on the current models, right? So they're not really stand-alone, they're mutually exclusive.

-juice

player4

More new info from Honda
I spoke with the sales manager of a local dealership today who gave me some interesting information. He told me that there will be an 8-passenger option in all models. In fact, he said that it might be standard. Apparently the middle 2nd row seat can fold down into a compartment (like Stow-N-Go). This compartment is part of a "lazy susan" which can be rotated to reveal the middle seat and rotated at least once more to reveal a storage area. He also told me that the back bench will fold down like the current Odyssey and is a 60/40 split. In addition, the moonroof opens, the vehicle is a little wider than the current model, and the windows roll down in the sliding doors. The release date will be September 21st. This means that the first vehicles ordered will be available to be picked up at dealerships on the 21st.

Hope this information is helpful!

beemer4me

Our 2001 Ody always seems to be 1 seat short with our son and all of his cousins...will it also have headphone jacks in back or prewiring?

player4

No problem, i have no idea about the headphone jacks nor have there been any info leaked out about those, but as soon as we or i hear something ill post it!!!

lok888

and the wait is over. Any idea the dealers will take orders of '05 Odyssey? Bambaboy told the release date was late August to early September. Did he said that there is no flat folded 2nd row seat. I hope this is not true because I heard that they mentioned the '05 model has lowered the floor.

And just to remind these 7 trims.

* LX
* EX
* EX-L
* EX-L RES
* EX-L RES & NAV
* Touring
* Touring RES & NAV

Just spoke to one local Honda dealer in Boston. The sales manager responded that there is no information yet.

gjay1170

I thought that the info for the '05 is coming out on 7/16. So, I figure that I can order one this weekend, and then get it by the end of September(9/21/04)? Please, let this be right! That pop-out seat from the second row would be great, especially when you can fit 2 families of 4 (4 adults and 4 kids). I would really like to get the van by the end of September since my lease ends early August, and I can extend it for another 2 months on my '01 Ody.

lok888

2 months until you actually see the car. I am wondering the waiting time for one. My brother is expecting his second child in December. We have been talking about the production numbers, up to 169,000 for 2006 model. But we are concerning the availability during the first 6 to 9 months. In fact, I still had to wait two months for my '04 Sienna LE with options back in 12/03.

gjay1170

All this waiting for this van is so confusing!!!! So, you say that the car itself will be a the dealer to look at, and not for consumers that already ordered them? You're saying that if I ordered it now, I won't get it for 6-9 months? I waited 4 months for my '01 that I ordered in April and got it in September '01. I really don't want to wait that long. I extended my lease up till I get a new one. My lease is expensive at $447 a month. I still don't want to buy it after my lease. If I did, I would've done it already.

mochisushi

I have ordered mine already. I am third on the list, however, that doesn't mean that I will get the third car. I will have third choice. Depending on color and model, it could be one of the first, or it could be on later shipments. The time that it will take for delivery will depend on the dealer. The larger the dealer, generally, the larger the allocation. If you really think you want one, you should get your name on a list ASAP. As soon as the general public knows about the new Odyssey (not us techno geeks that cruise the forums), the demand is going to spike and the list will get long quickly.

amykkbc

Business is business, as long as those dealers are for profit, you'll be the last one to get your pre-ordered car. Don't you think they'll do whatever they can to sell it to whoever walks in the dealer before you even know your car is there for even $1 more than you agreed to pay? Because you're just guaranteeing them the sales/profit. Unless you can camp outside of the dealer and catch the one you "pre-ordered". Then what is the point of pre-ordering?

kmead

At a good dealer that values your business, it doesn't work like that. If they are that unscrupulous, they will lose other business.

At our local Honda dealer, the list has been long in the past and the dealer has worked down the preorder list as vehicles came in according to personal preference. If you were more willing to accept a different color or whatever you did get your van sooner. My specific order took nearly 4 months.

On my Sienna, I placed an order and received exactly what I wanted in about 10 weeks.

Both of these are driven by high demand relative to the number of vans available and your local dealer's allocation.

mochisushi

I agree with kmead. The reputable dealers are not going to pull tricks like this on their customers. I had no problems with my '99 Odyssey (six month wait) or my '03 Pilot (#1 on list...put my name down 11 months before introduction, second one off the lot). Word will get around if a dealer starts selling cars out from under customers on the list.

weaselinsuit

I just got off the phone with Honda Canada. They indicated that info will be released at the end of August, beginning of September and that the vehicle itself will be available some time in September or into October depending upon availability. It may be different based upon the country but I would think that they would coordinate to a certain degree between Canada and the U.S..

gjay1170

I am planning to put my name on the list. I'm trying to convince my husband that it is refundable. My dealer is a reputable one, and I don't think I would have a problem. I did speak to him this morning, and he said the allocated cars will be out mid September. Though, if the car I ordered is not one of them, then I will have to wait another few months. I really want the black EX-L with RES/DVD with ivory interior. I'm not sure if I would settle on something else. Until then, I will continue paying for my extended lease and hope for the best.

aabb

In business it is unethical to not make higher profits when demand is high for a product. And its not just the Dealers... Honda themselves will offer little of no incentives on the 2005 Ody to dealers, + allocation amount to dealers are driven by how many other civics/accords a dealership can sell.

Bottomline
 - Honda wants higher profits in the model introduction year(ethical)
 - Honda wants similar or higher profits next year when
   production ramps up and efficiencies kick in.(ethical)
 - Dealership wants higher profits, they will push the
   high-end models to maintain their margins (ethical)
 - unscrouplous dealers will resort to tricks, which may
   include ignoring waiting lists and allocate the vehicle
   to top bidder.(unethical)
 - Buyer beware!

Questions:
How will a wait listed buyer ever find out his allocation was
given to top bidder, perhaps there is a way to track this any one know?

For those placing orders, is the dealer asking MSRP?

mochisushi

As far as the deposit being refundable, once again, business sense would dictate that the dealer not keep the deposit if you choose not to purchase. If you were to decide not to purchase when the car arrives, it doesn't mean that you won't want to buy a month, two months, or a year later. The dealers don't want to make money off of deposits...They want to sell cars and try to make long-term repeat customers. Before the Pilot released, my sister-in-law also put down a deposit on one. They decided to purchase a Sequoia instead. Not a problem at all with the dealer.

From what I understand, the dealer wants a deposit to ensure that you are seriously interested in purchasing from them. It also deters people from putting their names on lists at every dealer in the area. Most people won't want to give deposits to more than one dealer.

Good luck.

weaselinsuit

Why not just have the dealer give you a receipt for the deposit that indicates that it is refundable? I can't see a reputable dealer refusing to give such a receipt.

mochisushi

In response to your questions:
Questions:
How will a wait listed buyer ever find out his allocation was
given to top bidder, perhaps there is a way to track this any one know?

You don't know. However, my dealer will freely show the list, where you are on the list and what cars are coming in. If there are a bunch of cars coming in, but you aren't moving up the list, there is a problem. So there has to be some level of "trust" that the business is following through. The dealer that I go to is a one-price dealer (most are in the Denver area). They are also a "one-price" dealer. IF (and I repeat IF) they adhere to this philosophy, nobody should be paying more. You make good points that a business will want to maximize profits. However, I also believe that word WILL get out if the dealer is doing this.

For those placing orders, is the dealer asking MSRP? My dealership will sell for MSRP. However, they do NOT add anything on that you don't want. You can buy for MSRP + Honda's handling charge (or whatever they call it...~$450). They don't add any dealer handling, mandatory "protection packages", etc. They also have not charged above MSRP for any car that we have bought from them.

65times

I have sat with my local dealer and will place my order today. I am #3 on the list however, my dealer has informed me that I will get exactly what is ordered in the time committed - mid sept. This is because the allocation is for number of units per dealer, not specific configurations. The configuration order is placed merely weeks before arrival and may be changed up to the very start of production for the allocation. The 05 is asembled in 2.6 days!

gjay1170

Sure, he would give me a receipt. I leased a '01 Ody from him before and waited 4 months for the car. It's a good dealership, and I'm sure they will keep their word.

fbear

Nothing wrong with pre-orders if you trust your dealer. We put our $500 deposit down on May 5th and we are 3rd on our dealer's list...many more behind us by now. Since they do not know the price, the deal is stated as "AT MSRP".

If dealer is being straight, they should be willing to put down price relative to MSRP. If unwilling to do that they may well be planning to add special customization packages that you will be forced to buy.

If you think you can get one for less than MSRP then try to get the dealer to specify "$300 under MSRP" or whatever, but I think deals below MSRP will be few and far between at initial launch time. Deals over MSRP may well be the norm at first, (regardless of what kind of deals are available on the Sienna). IMHO, initial demand will out strip supply.

nofeer

touring what's that comp to limited toyo?
does it have memory seats
features options, details??????
3rd seat???split?

stickguy

The third seat is split, and there will be a moonroof available. These 2 at least seem to be common knowledge.

I get the idea that the touring must be comparable to a limited, because a 2004 EX-L pretty much matches up to an XLE already.

aggie76

Be cautious with lists. I had experience of a nameless dealer who showed me the list for a high demand auto I wanted with a $1,000 deposit and then under some questioning admitted that the list had been "reshuffled" when I showed them that my name was moved from its original place in line because I had a copy of the list from the prior month. They blamed a computer error but it was clearly, IMHO, an effort to play games with me. Needless to say, I took my business elsewhere from that point forward.

ceric

For some makers I know, when you order your vehicles, you get the VIN numbers after a while. Then, you may even track when your vehicles reach the ports (if imported) or on transportation to your dealerships. This definitely can be done. I don't think Honda do this, though.

As for deposit, it is always refundable, at least in CA. Dealerships know this. The deposit is just to deter non-serious customers. If the case goes to court, no one would profit. Business is based on good will. Forcing customers to buy anything carries very little profit. When I ordered my '05 RL, the salesman put down "$500 refundable" on the order sheet.

I am aiming to replace my '01 Odyssey with '07 Odyssey. Hopefully, price will subside by then, and more features will be added and some face-lift, maybe. I got my '01 with $1500 over MSRP. I hope that doesn't repeat again. With Sienna also very good, I don't see that happen this time around.

amykkbc

For those 99.9% of all business in the US, you're right. BUT have to remember who are the least trusted business/people in the US.
Repeated customer? what a joke? when I went back, 45 min. highway drive, to the dealer where I bought my 1st. new car from, all they asked was: "will you buy it today?" "do you have your check?"
Many US auto co. let you pre-order your car as specific as almost custom make, and that can be trusted. But not honda, not toyota, since all you can specify is trim line, maybe color, maybe option, which is as generic as no spec.
I've seen far more pre-ordered people waiting 6-9 months for their car a lot longer than those just walk in. And worse come to worst, all pre-ordering jacks up the final price, since you're guaranteeing them their bottom price.

kmead

When I pre-ordered, I paid 1800 under list, was the first 8 passenger the dealer had come in, it came in the right color inside and out with the correct options with no fooling around. The dealer arranged financing that was cheaper than my credit union and 3 internet banks.

Although your characterization of dealers may be true in many places, where I am I have been able to get exactly what I wanted from several "foreign" (whatever that is) dealers.

With the Honda Odyssey and the 04 Sienna, there is (was) no supply at the dealer and no matter what you had to get on a list to acquire one. In all likelihood the new Odyssey will be the same way for some time as well and may include price gouging. Waiting until the dust settles and pricing gets back to something resembling fair is a good strategy.

Which is not to say that the experience of having to wait is much fun, especially since you are at the mercy of the allocation process and what is being built for your region.

Sorry your buying experiences have been so unpleasant.

jmatthews

I just ordered mine today. They told me they're going to have what they call a "Touring Model" which just sounds like a loaded up that comes with the NAVI. I got that one. They're offering it in black leather like the other Honda models.

mochisushi

I must go to the 0.1% dealership. When I place my order (I am only on the list right now since there is no information), the dealer lets met know approximately how long it will be before arriving. With my Odyssey, it came in about two weeks early...not bad when they are giving me a target date six months earlier. There is no way that they could do that if they were selling all these cars out from under the "list". Especially when they show me the list and the incoming vehicles. I was #1 for the Pilot and I was able to make the first choice...Even though I didn't pay anymore than anyone else (MSRP). And my dealer IS interested in repeat customers. They know my parents, siblings and me as we have been repeat customers for about ten years (seven cars). We return because of the CUSTOMER SERVICE that we receive.

So, Please, just because you had a bad incident does not mean that everyone else will and all dealers are out to steal your money. Yes, it is a business and they are out to make money. But this dealer didn't become #1 in Colorado by being deceitful to its customers. As we continue to say, you need to go to a REPUTABLE dealer...one that you feel comfortable dealing with. I do...I am sorry that you don't. If you move to Colorado, visit the one in Littleton...You won't be sorry.

jchan2

Pre-Ordering is basically a good faith thing. When I pre-ordered my 2002 Odyssey in November 2001 I paid a $500 refundable deposit, got $500 off sticker, and was third in line for the Odysseys which had the newer (240HP) engine. I got third choice on whatever came into the dealer, and I told the dealer that I wanted a Mesa Beige EX with no leather. A week before Christmas, they told me they got a Mesa Beige EX with no leather and asked if I wanted it. I took it, finalized the sale three days later, and drove off, very happy with the buying experience. So it's all about the dealers. The good ones will keep you in line where you were and will not sell to the highest bidder. They'll tell everybody to simply get in line. The bad ones will sell to the highest bidder and move people up or down depending on how much they are willing to pay for the car.

spartanmann

I've had both experiences with Honda dealers. Some obnoxious and untrustworthy and others excellent to deal with. The important thing is to call around until you find one you like. It doesn't matter where you buy your vehicle, only where it is serviced. They don't have to be the same place. My local service dept. is very good, but I wouldn't tell my worst enemy to talk to their salespeople.

robr2

Count me in with 2 good ones. I put deposits down at 2 dealers (both knew this fact) for a 2000. Both quoted 8 weeks. One sold all their allocation based on the waiting list. The other told me they took about 20% of their allocation and accessorized them for those willing to pay to get it right now. Both called me within a few days of each other advising the van was in. I bought from the former only because they called first. The second said no problem to a cancellation and refunded my deposit.

amc731

We put down a $500 deposit and were 4th on the list back in April. They gave us a receipt and told us our deposit was fully refundable. This dealer has an excellent reputation, thus we've felt completely comfortable. They also told us that not only have they never sold over MSRP but we would not be expected to pay MSRP on this vehicle.....it would just be a matter of how much under we wanted to be. Obviously, given the demand, we'd probably be thrilled to pay $500 under. The only disappointment is that they promised to keep us updated on any news and we have thus far heard nothing from them.

amc731

Can I just add.......I'm really excited about the idea of black leather. I'm soooo tired of gray leather and light interiors that show stains. With three kids AND a black dog, I'd be in heaven.

65times

My dealership has also issued a fully refundable receipt for our $500 dollar deposit. We are order #3 on the list. He has reassured us over and over there are no games played with the order, lists are not shuffled, higher bidders do not win over previous orders etc. In addition, when the VIN is defined the paper work for financing may begin. He has been very forthcoming with information. He shared all of the new colors with us several weeks ago, has confirmed the EX L will come standard with a moonroof, the touring model has upgraded trim and comes with driver seat memory, power tailgate and few other nice items. He also stated that the RES ONLY comes in the leather package, no cloth option for RES. He has also shared all of the "spy photos" he had access to. I am confidant we will not be disappointed with our experience, we did purchase an 03 accord from this dealer last year, absolutely painless experience! Good luck

lok888

I didn't put any deposit when I ordered my '00 Odyssey EX back in 11/99. I waited four months for the car. Then I put $500 refundable deposit for my '04 Sienna. I still waited 6+ weeks for the most popular LE model with packages. The dealer didn't cash my check until the car was here and to do paperwork. They told it doesn't make sure to cash the check when the car is not here.

So, sunroof is standard on EX-L?

65times

Yes, The EX L will have this as standard equipment, he also had some supporting documentation from Honda which he was referring to. He also mentioned the touring would have programmable climate control but was not sure if it was two or three zones and most likely will be equipped with back up sensors which have become popular.

lok888

Good. Funny thing is I contacted two dealers in MA and RI. They don't know nothing about the 2005 Odyssey. They just looked at the spy photos on the internet like us. They told they are always last to know. I didn't ask for pre-ordering. And I guess they are not ready yet.

amc731

I suppose it's time for me to put in a call to the dealership. I've gotten kind of used to just sitting back and waiting. Now, after getting some info, I'm very excited about the touring model. It sounds like it has everything we've been wanting.

Thanks for all the updates!

stickguy

Well, I'm happy to here that I can get an EX-L (the trim level that I wanted) with the moonroof, and without the power tailgate (which I certaily don't want).

My wife might just be getting a real nice Christmas present this year after all.

gjay1170

Again, I called my dealer to make sure about the refundable deposit with receipt. Now, I can definitely convince my husband that we can get our money back, if we change our mind. It seems to be a short list at my dealer, maybe, because everyone is so happy with their Ody's that they bought. There are SO many around here. I told my salesman what I wanted yesterday, and it might go in the allocation order. That means, I will get it by the end of September. WOW! I hope it's true. It's too bad that we can't get legit photos and specs on it now. So, basically, we the consumers, are putting down deposits on cars that don't really exist yet, haven't driven them, or got a catalog on them. It's all chance, right? As long as we can get our deposits back. I hope this all works out for me, or I'll end up getting a '04 with Leather/Nav, and install DVD, since '04 doesn't come with Nav/DVD combo. Good luck to you all future '05 owners. I hope soon I'll be one too.

ateixeira

Any word on EPA mileage yet? Just curious.

-juice