Honda Odyssey Future Models

aabb

This is also an option. I am seriously considering the 2004 EX since my lunch meeting with my friend. he paid 22k drive out (Inclusive of TTL) for the 2004 EX. I find it hard to believe and am visiting the Honda dealership this weekend.

stickguy

22K sounds way low, especially with fees, taxes, etc. MSRP is around 28K IIRC, so 6K + off seems a bit much, but who knows?

Of course, if there was a trade involved, YMMV.

Kirstie_H

A newspaper reporter is wondering if people are satisfied or dissatisfied with their vehicle navigation systems. Please send your brief comments and daytime contact info to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, July 14, 2004.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com

ac00lra

There are a lot of flaws with your logic.

- First, you're basing your assumption on 30MPG of highway driving. My 4-cyl TSX does 35+ MPG on the highway on all 4 cylinders. An Odyssey with 3-cyl off should do at least 40+ MPG at cruising speed. And that's a conservative estimate.
- Second, if you make a 70 miles commute per day like me with 60 miles of highway driving, you'll be running on half cyl at 85% of the time. So your gallons saved will be at least 85% of 40+ MPG. So I should be doing at least +37MPG.
- The gas you're putting in will be 91 Oct (premium). And you don't find those at $2/gal in the Bay Area. It will be at least $2.40/gal (20% more than your estimate). And over time, the price per gal will only be higher and not lower.

So with my situation, I'm estimating I'm gonna save at least $300/year. Over 10 years that will be at least $3000. Besides, any technology that makes things more efficient gets my vote. And VCM is definitely one of them, along with hybrid. I'm no tree-hugging environmentalist. I just prefer efficiency and cost savings. :-)

ac00lra

In reality what VCM does is give them a marketing tool, they can call their van the most efficient. They timed it well with current gas prices, too.

-juice

Actually Honda has always made the claim to be the most efficient. And there's not stretching the truth by any means. They got the engine with the highest throughput per liter for a non-turbo engine (S2000 with 120HP/liter). They got the highest MPG for a street-legal car (Insight with 70+ MPG). They were the first one with the lowest-emission car without a catalytic converter (the old CVCC in the 70s). And so on. :-)

Geez, I sound like I work for Honda, don't I? Hehe. I think Honda should be the most-admired car company in the world. They might not have the most number of selections or options to satisfy every taste or make a flashiest and best looking car for everyone. But they do have the most efficient technology. To me that's unquestionable. So yeah I think their marketing can proudly make that claim over and over again.

raydahs

As some might be aware, the new Dodge Magnum uses a simular type cylinder shut off system. Their website states "Available on Magnum RT's 5.7-liter Hemi® V8, the Multiple-Displacement System (MDS) is a pure stroke of genius. By switching from eight to four cylinders during cruising and light acceleration, MDS improves fuel economy from 5 to 20 percent depending on driving habits".

5 to 20% would be consistant with the numbers previously stated by AABB. Honda probably will do better, given their technology gains due to F1, CART and current IRL experience. How much? we'll see.
http://www.dodge.com/magnum/performance.html?context=magnum-perfo- - - - - rmance&type=subNav&category=power

dudleyr

Honda claims a 15-20% improvement with VCM. The Odyssey will not get 40 mpg. It may be EPA 30-31, and may get low 30's if driven carefully, but 40 mpg would be a stretch.

raydahs

Yep your right, a 40 hwy (VCM) vs. the 04' rated at 25 hwy, would be a 60% increase. Using those numbers on a Civic, hwy mpg would be 60.8, eliminating the need for high cost hybrid technology.

ac00lra

Yep your right, a 40 hwy (VCM) vs. the 04' rated at 25 hwy, would be a 60% increase. Using those numbers on a Civic, hwy mpg would be 60.8, eliminating the need for high cost hybrid technology

Hybrid is a whole different animal. With Hybrid, you actually get better MPG driving in the city vs highway. However, a Civic with VCM on the other hand will probably give you 60MPG highway indeed since it's gonna be cruising on 2-cyl. Now that would be an awesome sight to see. :-)

ac00lra

Honda claims a 15-20% improvement with VCM. The Odyssey will not get 40 mpg. It may be EPA 30-31, and may get low 30's if driven carefully, but 40 mpg would be a stretch.

Now what would make it really cool is if Honda will give us a little button similar to the overdrive button that let us selectively cruise with 4-cyl at will. Then we'll have more control over our gas mileage. And I don't think a 4-cyl running at 70MPH in 5th gear doing 40+ MPG a strecth at all. After all, half of a 3.5L engine is only 1.75L. That would be about the size of the Civic engine wouldn't it?

jchan2

Yes but if we get a little button and stupid Joe Dumbb down the street leaves the 4 Cylinder activated when he hauls seven people and a few groceries, he'll be complaining that the system doesn't work when in fact he's abusing the system by giving half the engine too much work and the other half no work.

popper

"They got the engine with the highest throughput per liter for a non-turbo engine (S2000 with 120HP/liter). "

The Mazda RX-8's 1.3 liter generates 238 HP. That calculates to over 183HP/liter!

stickguy

not sure why, but in the past they doubled the stated capacity of the rotary when comparing it to a piston engine, So, the rotary is cmparable to a 2.6l piston engine. Still pretty good output though!

raydahs

Good point, I also commute @70 miles/day, (in theory) 90% of so called hwy driving. "So called", meaning if my morning commute is averaging 35 mph and my evening commute is 35 mph, then in reality it's more like city driving w/o the jack rabbit starting. So I see your point about Hybrids. Initially when I was in break in mode, slowing my speeds down to 65 mph I was averaging 23 hwy. But going back to bad habits, and in So.Cal if your not going 70-75 you get eaten alive or flipped off! Now I'm averaging 20 hwy. (forgot to mention that the 6 mile run to the highway has a 1000 ft. elevation gain...that kills the O/A average).

Just curious, how many actually have real world hwy conditions (a continuous flow)? Check this out between the hours of 6am-10am & 3pm-7pm PST, now that's real world.....he he!

http://www.dot.ca.gov/sdtraffic

ateixeira

Tung: yes, but I'm talking about them having the most efficient minivan. I believe the Sienna and one of the GM vans currently beats the Ody's EPA ratings for mileage.

Note: the following numbers are fictional.

If the Sienna gets an EPA combined of 23.1 and the GM vans 23.2, then the % increase doesn't matter, as long as it's 23.3 so they can claim it's the best.

That's what they should aim for - and give the marketing folks something to boast about.

-juice

defucius

hwy mpg would be 60.8, eliminating the need for high cost hybrid technology

It always amazes me how negative people are against hybrid. What is the logic behind achieving a 60.8 mpg eliminating hybrid? Hybrid does not conflict with VCM, as you will see in the 05 Accord hybrid, neither does it conflict with diesel, which is constantly mistakenly brought up as the other "alternative" to hybrid. Why do people fail to see hybrid will only compliment these two technologies, instead of compete? If you can get 60.8 mpg with VCM alone, you will get even more together with hybrid. If you can get 60 mpg with diesel, you will get even more with together with hybrid.

The current hybrid technology will also reduce the emission pollution, which is the in addition to fuel savings. Let there be more hybrids, please...

aabb

What is EPA combined?

stickguy

a weighted average of city and highway. basically an estimate of what you would get in overall driving.

raydahs

I don't see the "negative" comments about Hybrids anywhere in the statement made. I've always read/heard that Toyota and Honda aren't making any money on the technology due to the extremely high development costs. As with anything that is designed and sold to the public, you have to have high volume in order to recover the costs of the Engineering, hard tooling and production to make a profit. Or if you do sell low quantities, the price is elevated to cover the costs (hybrids).

One of the only reasons we have Hybrids sold to the public, is the fact that Toyota and Honda are making a ton of money on other product lines, for example the 99-04 Odyssey. From what I've seen the Sheetmetal and interior haven't changed in 5 years. So the more you get out of your tooling the more profit is made. Honda typically has a run of 4-5 years on their products without major design changes in order to make $$$, it's all figured out up front. Maybe that's why Honda let the Odyssey go an extra year to recover the losses in the first year of production (only 60k units).

I guess the point I was trying to make was if you could get 60.8 mpg through mechanical means (ie. valvetrain components) it would be alot cheaper to develop, produce and sell than Hybrid technology, that's all.

Hybrid is a good thing.

dudleyr

I have a first generation Odyssey with a 4-cyl engine, and I can tell you that a 4-cyl minivan will not get 40 mpg going 70 mph, especially if it is the size of an Odyssey. My vehicle gets just over 30 mpg going 70, which is quite good, but a long ways from 40, and it only weighs 3,500 lbs - 1,000 lbs less than the new Odyssey will probably weigh. Besides weight the Odyssey has a lot more wind resistance than a Civic.

I am the first to say that EPA estimates are conservative, and usually easy to exceed, but 40 mpg seems too high.

player4

Congrats on your purchase and enjoy it!!! by 2006 the there will be a lot o vans available like 2006 Odyssey, 2006 Sienna, 2006 Quest, 2006 Sedona, 2006 Hyundai Minivan, 2006 Uplander, 2006 Relay, 2006 Terraza, 2006 Montana SV6, 2006 Town & Country, 2006 Grand Caravan, 2006 MPV, 2006 Freestar, 2006 Monterey adn thats all i kno!!

lok888

The gas mileage for Honda Inspire (JDM) with a 250hp V6 3.0L iVTEC VCM engine is about 11.6km/L, roughly 28.8 mpg. Interestingly, the Honda Accord (JDM) can do 12.0 km/L on 2.4 DOHC or 13.8 km/L 2.0 DOHC 4 cylinder engine.

The U.S. Odyssey (current model) is about 18/25 mpg (city/highway). I would think the gas mileage of 2005 Odyssey (with VCM engine) will do slightly better than the 2004 model. I hope to see it will do 30s on highway. And people would like to spend the premium on better packages and options.

I like the hybird concept on Odyssey. But the cost to buy must be the important factor for the consumer, beside the cleaner environment and quite operation. Just look at the $4000+ price difference between Honda Civic hybird and a nicely equipped model. There is a 10+ mpg difference on gas consumption.

mochisushi

I am sure that you will love your '04 Odyssey. We owned a '99 and ran it to 98K miles in less than 50 months. The only problems that were not owner related damage (don't back into the garage with the hatch open or back into Dodge Ram 4X4s) were the flap for the cup holder fell off and the clock light burned out. Both replaced under warranty before 36K miles. It was definitely one of the best cars that we owned. Now, we are just waiting to see if we want to trade our Pilot for the 05...as you can see, we need the backup warning system! Enjoy your '04!

aabb

onlysurfer,
What about TTL, is that extra?
is this for 12K per year?

1500 down +23 x 200 = 6100 for 2 years is pretty economical.
are there any hidden extras?

I am tempted to do the same. (if offer is still available)

aabb

BTW, if I return the van at 24 months/24K, do they expect new tires on the van (another $400 at least)

onlysurfer

It includes sales tax, bank fees, cap cost reduction etc. I had to register it myself (a trip to Mass RMV and $87). Don't have to put new tires, lease is from American Honda and includes $1500 worth of normal "wear and tear" upon lease return. In the past I have paid nickels and dimes for those supermarket grates, hopefully not this time.

player4, thanks for a comprehensive list. I should have been specific, how many of these are getting a new look between now and July 2006 ? I know 2005 Odyssey will be an all new (except may be the chassis). Sienna is kind of all new.

Thanks!

gjay1170

My lease for my '01 is due next month, but I'm extending my lease till I get the '05. They don't expect me to get new tires, and I'm not going to replace them with 40,500 miles on them. I did get new brakes yesterday, though. I REALLY needed them. I had the van for 3 years and that is all I had to do for it and the maintenance. Overall, I am a happy customer.

rorr

Regarding vans (besides new Odyssey) which will be 'all new' for the 2005 and beyond:

The new GM family listed by player4 (out this fall?) and the Mazda MPV (which I think is due for a makeover for '06) are the only other total makeovers on the immediate horizon. New to the market is the Kia. Don't know anything about the Kia.

edit - oops, almost forgot the return of the VW Microbus.

mochisushi

Something else that is good about AHFC leases is that you can buy out the lease in the future. I don't know if you can do this with the other lease providers. I have a three year lease on my Pilot that lasts until June of 2005. However, I will potentially be trading it in on the Odyssey. I talked with our dealer and they will buy out the lease (still less than the NADA and Edmunds trade-in values) and apply any equity to the down payment. Additionally, by having the dealer buy the car instead of me, I save on sales tax on the purchase price. In Colorado, you only pay sales tax on the depreciation of a lease...I would have to pay for the remaining value of the car if I purchase it. I would also have to re-register it. The couple grand in equity will also save me sales tax on the new car.

ateixeira

I heard VWoA did not get the funds to develop a unique microbus, so we'll see the same van they'll get for Europe.

Guess all the money was wasted on the Phaeton.

-juice

hayneldan

Dont hold your breath for a complete redesign of the GM minivans. They will be refreshed not redesigned they will have more hood and a higher front end to fix? their abismal front crash test results. They are trying for more of a SUV look. 2005 Chevrolet Uplander : General Motors is giving its corporate minivan line a complete makeover and expanding its role to fill in the Buick and Saturn ranges. As the Uplander demonstrates, these minivans feature a more dramatic, truck-like front design that stretch the vehicles' length four inches beyond the 2004 models. The longer hood gives a tougher, more SUV-like appearance, though insiders say this direction was lead by a need to address front crash-test standards. The three-row Uplander will be powered by a 3.5L/200-hp V-6, offered in front- and all-wheel drive configurations. Trick feature is an optional hard-drive-based digital media system that allows passengers to synch with their home computer to bring hundreds of hours of music and video on the road. XM Satellite radio and DVD-based entertainment systems will also be available. A cargo van model will also be offered.

hayneldan

http://thehollywoodextra.com/honda/honda.html#Odyssey

ateixeira

It's a half-hearted effort at best. Still too narrow, and basically it looks like they put a huge beak on the old minivan.

The 3500 engine is fine in the lighter Malibu but might be strained in a heavier van. Just 200?

They will compete primarily on price.

-juice

mbrochujr

I recently saw the new Odyssey in Tokyo this year. I assume that there will be alot of similarities since the last years model was the same as the US version. In Tokyo the new model has AWD, next generation adaptive cruise control with collision avoidance, headlights that follow the steering, flush folding 2nd and 3rd row seats, and I forget the others. It was very nice I look forward to trading my 2002 in for this one.

shellymeister2

Ok, I'll be the one to break the news to you.

THERE IS NO CONNECTION BETWEEN THE NEW JAPANESE ODYSSEY AND THE NEW '05 AMERICAN ODY.

     Few if any of the Japanese market product features will find its way into the North American version.

     Now that we got that straightened out, how was Tokyo when you visited?
     I plan on being in Osaka and Hiroshima later this year.

player4

Got 2004 America's best People Mover in Auto Week.!!!! cheers!!

cbwantsan05

Unfortunately in that same autoweek article it states the following:

"We can only wonder how good the next-generation Odyssey will be when it gets to dealers in September."

Bummer

player4

DIRECT FROM HONDA.... ODYSSEY WILL START ARRIVING IN SEPTEMBER

For 2005:
Honda has delivered an all-new completely re-engineered and re-designed Odyssey minivan. The new design improves all areas of Odyssey’s current strengths while adding more emotional appeal and quality through improved styling, advanced technology, luxury amenities and driving performance and supporting our “Safety for Everyone” commitment.
Honda will introduce an all-new Touring model to its already strong line-up. This new model will meet the needs of buyers looking for upscale features that are typically found in luxury vehicles. Some features in the Touring models include, Premium Audio, Power Tailgate, Driver Memory Seat, Auto Dimming Mirrors, Tri-Zone Automatic Climate Control, Auto On/Off Headlights, and much, much more. Another feature requested by customers is the Sunroof, which is now standard on all EX with Leather and Touring Models.

lok888

Is there any indication this can be ordered as an option on EX or EX-L without the expensive packages and unwanted equipments, just like the Honda tradition on EX trimmed vehicles. If they think there are many customers' request for the sunroof, why not make it available on the lower graded models?

hbcsc153

aabb:

Could you post the message number for the post that mentions the Lease that you request info in your post #1837? I am wondering whether that offer is still available.

Regards,

Emil

ateixeira

Only rich people deserve to look at the moon. ;-)

Actually we have aftermarket moonroofs in 2 of our cars, and I also owned one before that.

It should be a stand-alone option. I bet some Touring owners do *not* want it.

-juice

aabb

#1837 abd #1840, just scroll up on the same page!

hbcsc153

Thanks aabb. I don't see that offer anywhere else. The best that I see is the $1,499 plus $259 per month that is available at the Honda website.

Regards,

Emil

player4

The first order allocation will take place on July 16th. Each dealer will receive at least one vehicle as coverage for the release date. We will post model information once Honda allows us to do so.

1997montez34

I hope they put the power liftgate on the EX as well as the Touring model.

stickguy

If I am interpreting Players note correctly, the the EX-L will come with a moonroof, but you need to go up to the touring to get the power tailgate. COnsidering I require a moonroof, and really do not want a power tailgate (and don't need any of the other stuff in the touring package), it might be my lucky day.

If they keep the pricing about the same (an EX-L at around 29k), I'll be there.

dudleyr

Yes some people do not want sunroofs. I would consider and EX-L, but if it has a sunroof, then it is LX for me.

aabb

From the 2005 ody spy pics and the Edix pics, it appears that the door handles and the shape of the side mirrors are similar in styling.

If Edix is any indicator, the New 2005 Ody should be a good looker (well its hard to make a minivan look good but I think Ody will look okay)
I think the minor tape masking and fake black rear-end can hide quite a bit

ash1

What is Edix Pictures?

lok888

Do they call this a minivan in Japan and Europe? It looks odd with three seats in the front? What is going on? Any news on new Odyssey?