Right you are! Any acceleration in the test would work against VCM in that acceleration should cause all six cylinders to kick in (just like times of deceleration should work in the favor of VCM). I can't fully argue against you on that point because to do so I would need to know what the speed vs. time curve looks like. But I would point out that I would doubt that the acceleration is very heavy for the highway loop because the average speed is only 48 mph. In the places I've lived (never in CA) no one would say with a straight face that his or her average highway speed is 48 mph.
In any regard, my criticism is with the method they use. I'd like to see the EPA drop their "chemical equation balance" method of coming up with fuel economy and just go to a method that directly measures the amount of fuel consumed during their test--like Consumer Reports (CR). I also think a 100 mile test would be better than the current 10 mile test. Perhaps they should just switch to the CR tests and report hwy, city, and 150 mile suburban fuel consumption on real roads.
VCM is very limited in it's value to the consumer. It seem that Honda is risking its REP on technology of marginal value. Sienna is EPA highway 28 mpg without VCM. City driving mpg is not impacted by VCM, so overall the net benefit to the average consumer will be less that 1-2 mpg in overall gasoline usage. Bragging rights at the possible expense of consumers wallets and possible repair headaches?......
As someone else mentioned, Honda will probably get more marketing mileage from VCM than people will get actual mileage on the road. I thought the Sienna was EPA highway rated at 27 mpg, which would give Honda a 1 mpg advertising advantage. Without VCM the heavier EX-L and Touring models would probably get worse mileage than LX and EX.
Note from the specs that the non-VCM models have a fifth gear ratio of .520 whereas the VCM models have a ratio of .595. So the VCM engine will be turning at about 15% higher rpm on the highway. I don't know how significant this is on the life of the engine. I wonder if the Smart Maintenance System will require more frequent oil changes on the VCM models because of the higher engine rpm.
Let me just say: I considered--albeit briefly--a Sequoia, before buying a Sienna XLE AWD. Went with the minivan because of significantly better interior cu/ft and mpg over an SUV--not to mention $10k cheaper. That being said, anyone who chooses one van over the other (Honda/Toyota) for 1 mpg difference is letting the tail wag the dog.
What rental company rented you a Sienna and in what city? As far as I know, they all use either Chrysler or Ford products.
I own a 2004 Sienna, and I disagree about the power - it is VERY sluggish compared to the Honda Odyssey and the transmission is mushy, slow to shift and imprecise. It takes forever to get up to speed from a standstill. There are lots of discussions about the transmission and pickup issues on the Sienna board. I agree it is quieter and feels more luxurious, but additionally, the Honda PAINT JOB is FAR SUPERIOR to the thin coat Toyots has - if you breathe on the Sienna, you get chips, scratches and even dents from the thin sheet metal. Doors are already rusting out especially in Canada where there is a lot of road grime in winter and since the paint is so thin, the road vibration has rubbed teh paint away and rust begins quickly. Toyota has had to fully repaint the doors and apply a 3M film to try and protect it. I have always had Accords and the paint has always been excellent - look next time you are in a parking lot at the scratches and chips on Siennas as compared to Odysseys.
I've also seen Avis use some Chevy Ventures too. Don't forget about GM's massive sales to rental fleets.
And for some reason I have scratched my Accord before, but it was fixed right away and I never scratched the car again. Both my Civic and Odyssey have a few parking lot dings, but nothing major like a scratch. The paint seems pretty durable.
"I would point out that I would doubt that the acceleration is very heavy for the highway loop because the average speed is only 48 mph. In the places I've lived (never in CA) no one would say with a straight face that his or her average highway speed is 48 mph."
Drive from any suburb to any city during "rush" hour, and tell me if you average 48 mph. I travel from a suburb 30 miles from San Francisco. I use the carpool lane, and still it takes about 45 minutes on average.
Your main point is totally valid - but there are a LOT of freeway travellers in California to whom an 80 mph sprint is but a gossamer dream.
Perhaps the EPA should define what they mean by highway driving. Driving in rush hour traffic on a freeway (sometimes stop and go) is not what I consider highway driving. But to others this may be exactly what they consider highway driving.
Don't get sucked into this PAX system just because you want everything else on the 'Touring.' Buy a loaded EX-L instead....Trust me.
For me, the PAX is actually one of the top 3 reasons why I'm going for the Touring. I, for one, would only buy Michelin tires. I have had Yokohama, Bridgestone, and Good Year blew up on me prematurely (less then 50% used). I never had a problem with Michelin. And I'm glad to pay for the top of the line Michelin all the time. All the cars in my family (Integra, CRV, TSX) all use Michelin tires. So for me PAX is a a winner. :-) Like the Michelin slogan, "So much is riding on your tires", especially the wife and kids. Even if it's $250 a tire, it's a good deal to me. Keep in mind that my Integra's tire (195/60/14) is already at $120 a pop. :-)
Nothing is more scary than hearing the wife and kids get stranded somewhere late at nite due to a flat tire. I don't wanna be cheap when it comes to tires. :-)
If you love Michelin, then great. Still buy the EX-L and any Michelin tire you want. The PAX system, I believe, is Priorative Technology. There will be so few PAX-equipped Odysseys on the road for the foreseeable future, that I doubt you'll have any choice within the brand.
We'll just agree to disagree on Michelin quality. I believe they're overrated--one of those brands that is #1 in brand recognition, but isn't the best brand.
My Volvo S80 came with Michelin MXM4's when new. They were horrible on anything but dry pavement. Couldn't get them off fast enough--and wouldn't let my wife drive the car in the rain until I did.
I have had Good Year, Bridgestone. Firestone and Michelin. The Good Year is OK, nothing special, but it's still running on the Civic. The Bridgestone lasted 90,000 miles before the tires were replaced, the Firestone wore out quick. (at 45,000 miles) and the first set of Michelins wore out at 58,000 miles.
> For me, the PAX is actually one of the top 3 reasons why I'm going for the Touring. I, for one, would only buy Michelin tires. I have had Yokohama, Bridgestone, and Good Year blew up on me prematurely (less then 50% used). <
These days, it is rare to have radial tires blow up on the road. I, for one, think Michelin is over-rated. My '01 Odyssey came with Michelin. It squeak every time I turn aggressively. My wife keep saying I should slow down (being a BMW driver, it is a hard thing to do). I told her it is the tires! She, of course, didn't believe me until we changed the tires to P.F.Goodrich at Costco (at 60% of the cost of a comparable Michelin). It now turns shapely, stops better, runs more quietly, and so on. Even my wife agrees now. I have tried many brands of tires on my BMWs (being Z-rated et al). I do think Michelin have "rounder" tires, which makes balancing easier. Other than that, it is just marketing getting into your head. There is NO statistics showing Michelin is safer. You may prove me wrong and convert me into a believer.
My daughter did a science project on Alkaline batteries by brands. It turns out that all Alkaline batteries perform statistically equally despite the huge difference in prices. Go figure.
Speaking of tires, I never had a blow out before. My '01 Ody had almost 43,000 miles with the original tires (Michelin?) They need to be replaced very soon, but I'm bringing it in by 10/6 after my lease extension expires. Once, I had a nail in it, and brought it to a gas station, and they fixed it for $10. There is no need for PAX for me. I'm getting the EX-L loaded. By the way, my tires are almost worn out at $43,000, is that normal for that many miles? My husband has an Acura TL-S with 1,000 more miles, and his tires look great. Does van tires wear out sooner? This is my first van.
........ All-New Acura RL,for the first time in a North American vehicle*, standard real-time traffic information integrated into a new in-car satellite navigation system featuring AcuraLink(TM). Utilizing the XM NavTraffic(TM) service beamed from XM's satellites, the large 8-inch navigation screen can display a variety of up-to-the-minute traffic information where available including flow (traffic speed), accidents, and construction on freeways in 20 major metro areas including Los Angeles, New York and Chicago. Flow and accident information are updated continuously, allowing drivers to take the least congested route to their destination.
In addition to enabling the real-time traffic feature, the AcuraLink satellite communication system allows for communication between Acura and the vehicle, providing customers with the latest diagnostic information specific to their vehicle as well as vehicle-related messages. Because it works with the car's HandsFreeLink? wireless telephone interface, drivers can respond to messages or one-touch-dial Acura dealers and Acura Roadside Assistance (TLC) using their Bluetooth phone.
I happened to be watching RL closely as well. So, I guess I can answer your questions.
GPS_NAVI carries no monthly fee. However, you probably would need to update the software and data base (new roads, gas stations, etc.) every 3-5 years. That would cost around $200 bucks. That is NOT mandatory.
New RL come with many new technologies such as Real-time traffic. It is based on XM radio carrier. Therefore, there is a fee for that just like XM radio itself. Also, the OnStar carries a fee. HandFreeLink itself carries no fee but you need BlueTooth with HFP (HandFreeProtocol) support. But, the NAVI on Odyssey does not have this feature. Both come with voice recognition technology from IBM, which is one the best in voice recognition in USA.
So does anyone know if any of the trim levels have at least manual lumbar support for the passenger seat? The official feature matrix just says "Passenger Seat Adjustment".
Also, does anyone know if the 2nd row bucket seats of the Touring and EX-L are the same (aside from the fact that the "plus one" seat is between them on the EX-L)? The pics for the ones in the Touring look very nice so I wanted to know if they were the same.
autobytel.com has a first drive review of the new Odyssey by Christian Wardlaw, formerly the editor-in-chief of ... Edmunds! He compares the Ody to the Sienna and Quest and says that the Ody has the most refined engine, the most responsive steering, the quietest interior, and the best front seats. Interestingly, he says the Touring model is much quieter than the other models, probably because of the PAX tires. It is a long review with many comments about the new Ody.
Thanks for link to the extensive report on the test drive of the new Odyssey. I was surprized he did not make a closer comparison to the # 1 selling Grand Caravan. Although I would prefer the 2005 Odyssey, a 2005 Odyssey LX would cost about twice what I paid for my 2002 Chrysler T&C that has less than 27,000 mile on it. The 2005 Odyssey will be the undisputed "Top of Class" minivan.
#1 Does the glove box still intrude into the front passenger legs. #2. Is separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger available in LX as in most DC minivans? #3. Is there an overhead console as in the Sienna and DC minivans?
I think EPA Highway driving is on an open, flat road like in Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, or west Texas at 60 MPH when the weather is cool, there is almost no wind, and the air conditioning is not being used. City is probably freeway driving in any major metropolitan area.
Passenger seat adjustment does not include lumbar support. There are two ways you can tell from specs:
1. The column for new features is not marked with an x. Therefore, the passenger seat adjustment is the same as that on the 2004 Odyssey. If the 2004 Ody does not have a lumbar adjustment for the passenger seat, then the 2005 doesn't either.
2. Driver seat lumbar support is shown as a separate line from driver seat adjustment. Honda includes even the smallest of features in this list, so it would have listed lumbar support for the passenger seat as a separate line if the Ody has it.
According to othe rinfo and resources, the 2nd row chair in EX and Touring are not the same same. The Touring is wider with more pading and believe that is the reason it doesn't have the 8th seat option.
ac00lra -- I never have blown tires and you have more than once. I read a acrticle few years ago and confirmed in CR rating on tires (don't remeber what year), 90%+ blown tires are due to inproper tire pressure and premature/uneven wear due to mis-alignment. All my friends who regularly check tire and do aligment don't have blown tires. Many owners don't do it because not listed in the maintenamce schedule from user manual. The tire could pre-mature worn and need to be replaced. If owners don't check the tire and pressure regularly, those sign of wear will be neglect and most ended up blown tires. I check my tires visually everytime I pump gas, and measure pressure when suspect losing pressure. And measure pressure every 3 months and some times adjust the pressure based on season. Lower in Summer and higher in Winter. So to me, routing checking is far better run flat tire. Some will say you can't avoid the nail and still need service. Unless cut on side or big impact, the tire will only leak very slowly. The leak mostly happen when cold and mostly overnight. So you will need to put on the spare 90% during the day unless you used to drive in the night and sleep in the day. PAX can't eliminate the risk when blown and just give the edge for minimum control. Best way still is regular check up.
I believe that the EPA does it's mileage testing in a "lab" with the cars on a dynamometer. They simulate different driving cycles to get their mileage measurements.
That is why the numbers are only good when comparing cars to each other. Different temperatures, and particularly altitude, can have a large effect on mileage.
My Volvo S80 came with Michelin MXM4's when new. They were horrible on anything but dry pavement. Couldn't get them off fast enough--and wouldn't let my wife drive the car in the rain until I did.
Hehe, well I guess I live in an area that rains less than 2 weeks a year. :-D And I normally don't try to burn rubber either. So the performance of Michelin works fine for me. And MXV4 on my Integra usually lasts 80K+ miles before getting replaced.
I do agree about the lack of shops that carry PAX tires currently. But I'm pretty sure if they sales of the PAX picked up, there will be a lot more shops willing to carry them. In these days and age, it's not hard to search the web for places that carry them. :-)
VCM does not make engine more quiet. It is the ANC (active noise control) that is activated when VCM kicks in. The ANC can be tuned for specific frequency range. In the range, the attenuation is about 10db. If you buy a ANC headphone, it usually works within 100hz to 1Khz range. At 300hz, it reduces noise level by 10db. The system on the new RL works for noise frequency below 100hz to remove muffler noises. Again, it helps by 10db. I don't have the details of the ANC on Odyssey.
ac00lra -- I never have blown tires and you have more than once. I read a acrticle few years ago and confirmed in CR rating on tires (don't remeber what year), 90%+ blown tires are due to inproper tire pressure and premature/uneven wear due to mis-alignment
Well, I might not have checked my tire pressure as often as I should. However, I do the same to all the brands. I just have better luck with Michelin. With the Yokohama, it's rated at 44 PSI and I normally put 32-35. The Good Year spec'ed at 36 max and I also do 32. The Michelin is also rated at 44 and I do 32-35 also. So I think it's a fair comparison. :-) I noticed that even the Yokohama shows some hairline crack on the sidewall after about 40K miles. And I do put Armor All tire shine on all my tires. But I never saw a crack on the sidewall on the Michelin even until I replaced it at 80K. So that's how I got my bias based on my personal experience. :-D
PAX can't eliminate the risk when blown and just give the edge for minimum control. Best way still is regular check up.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Yes you definitely need to check tire regularly with any tire. But I don't want to have to worry about my wife and kids in a car with a flat tire. Last time this happened, I had to tell her to drive 10MPH for 2 miles until she reached home. She definitely can not replace the tire. And calling AAA or some other roadside assistance service is not exactly a pleasant thought either. I guess I'm just too paranoid due too watching too many psychotic thrillers. :-( And it was pretty stressful for me to think about it.
I recently bought 4 new tires for my Integra. They were rated #1 by CR and were $43 apiece.
You didn't buy it on eBay, did you? J/K. What brand are these, I'm curious. Like I mentioned, I don't mind paying premium for a tire that I trust. I don't wanna be cheap when it comes to tires. :-)
It is so very cool, yes indeed. I can't wait to try it out. Being able to give voice inputs on specific home addresses is something else. And also to control the DVD RES by voice commands is awesome--talk about extremely convenient!
I don't judge a tire's quality soley on the number of miles I get out of it. If you do, then I guess Michelin is an option. Seems most people who buy them consider this to be the only measure of a quality tire. Handling and wet-weather traction and performance matter to me. I'd much prefer a tire with these qualities that that lasts only 40,000 miles.
I suppose if I lived in the desert southwest, I'd consider Michelin more seriously. Read the wet weather performance ratings of many Michelin OEM's at the TireRack website. Lots of 3's and 4's out of 10.
Bought the tires at a local tire shop. Falken Ziex ZE512. H rated performance tires. have the same tires on my Odyssey (gen 1) and they perform wonderfully - cost a little under $60 for the Ody. Look up the last tire review in CR for more details.
...I went ahead and signed a 2 year lease on an 04 Odyssey this weekend. I've been checking out this forum daily for several months, and had my wife all convinced to wait for the 05. But the only feature she is really interested in is the power liftgate, and seeing as how I could only get that in a Touring model, well 34K+ is just a helluva lot to pay for a vehicle. So in the LA area one of the dealerships was running an ad for an 04 Odyssey EX-L 2 year lease for $219/mo + tax (comes out to about $237/mo), which I got another dealer to match (since they had the color my wife wanted - Sandstone Metallic). Negotiated price to reach this payment - $25,072. This was just too good a deal to pass up, on the bright side I get to be in the market for the new Odyssey in a couple of years once prices (hopefully) have subsided and when Honda gets their head on straight and (hopefully) offer the power liftgate on the EX-L.
Congrats to all of you who end up getting an 05 Odyssey. The van looks like it will be a winner. I will look to get one (an 07, or an 06 on the cheap) when my lease runs out in 2 years.
Do you happen to have any info as to weather or not the 8 way power adjustment and lumbar support can be added after market to the front passenger seat.
The EPA does all of its tests indoors in a laboratory. They do not test on real roads. The average speed does not exceed 48 mph. But you are correct about the air conditioning not being used. See the last post by Ceric, and read the pdf file from the EPA.
Currently the EPA is accepting responses from the public about how the tests should be modified. Some here may be interested in writing to them. I personally want them to go to a direct fuel consumption method instead of the current "chemical balance equation" method for computing mpg.
In theory, you can get anything done for enough money, but if it isn't an otherwise available option (like adding power drivers seat to an LX), I have to imagine it will be real expensive, since it will be a custom job.
Have you considered a lumbar pillow? They have some pretty fancy ones available.
IMO, if this is an absolute must for you, get a different vehicle.
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Right you are! Any acceleration in the test would work against VCM in that acceleration should cause all six cylinders to kick in (just like times of deceleration should work in the favor of VCM). I can't fully argue against you on that point because to do so I would need to know what the speed vs. time curve looks like. But I would point out that I would doubt that the acceleration is very heavy for the highway loop because the average speed is only 48 mph. In the places I've lived (never in CA) no one would say with a straight face that his or her average highway speed is 48 mph.
In any regard, my criticism is with the method they use. I'd like to see the EPA drop their "chemical equation balance" method of coming up with fuel economy and just go to a method that directly measures the amount of fuel consumed during their test--like Consumer Reports (CR). I also think a 100 mile test would be better than the current 10 mile test. Perhaps they should just switch to the CR tests and report hwy, city, and 150 mile suburban fuel consumption on real roads.
Note from the specs that the non-VCM models have a fifth gear ratio of .520 whereas the VCM models have a ratio of .595. So the VCM engine will be turning at about 15% higher rpm on the highway. I don't know how significant this is on the life of the engine. I wonder if the Smart Maintenance System will require more frequent oil changes on the VCM models because of the higher engine rpm.
Where did the gear ratio specs come from? I'd like to see them.
Excellent point. Pick the darn vehicle because you like it better for whatever reason...and get on with it.
I own a 2004 Sienna, and I disagree about the power - it is VERY sluggish compared to the Honda Odyssey and the transmission is mushy, slow to shift and imprecise. It takes forever to get up to speed from a standstill. There are lots of discussions about the transmission and pickup issues on the Sienna board. I agree it is quieter and feels more luxurious, but additionally, the Honda PAINT JOB is FAR SUPERIOR to the thin coat Toyots has - if you breathe on the Sienna, you get chips, scratches and even dents from the thin sheet metal. Doors are already rusting out especially in Canada where there is a lot of road grime in winter and since the paint is so thin, the road vibration has rubbed teh paint away and rust begins quickly. Toyota has had to fully repaint the doors and apply a 3M film to try and protect it. I have always had Accords and the paint has always been excellent - look next time you are in a parking lot at the scratches and chips on Siennas as compared to Odysseys.
Wendy
And for some reason I have scratched my Accord before, but it was fixed right away and I never scratched the car again. Both my Civic and Odyssey have a few parking lot dings, but nothing major like a scratch. The paint seems pretty durable.
Drive from any suburb to any city during "rush" hour, and tell me if you average 48 mph. I travel from a suburb 30 miles from San Francisco. I use the carpool lane, and still it takes about 45 minutes on average.
Your main point is totally valid - but there are a LOT of freeway travellers in California to whom an 80 mph sprint is but a gossamer dream.
http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0409/05/autos-263327.htm
Andrew, this is for you!!
For me, the PAX is actually one of the top 3 reasons why I'm going for the Touring. I, for one, would only buy Michelin tires. I have had Yokohama, Bridgestone, and Good Year blew up on me prematurely (less then 50% used). I never had a problem with Michelin. And I'm glad to pay for the top of the line Michelin all the time. All the cars in my family (Integra, CRV, TSX) all use Michelin tires. So for me PAX is a a winner. :-) Like the Michelin slogan, "So much is riding on your tires", especially the wife and kids. Even if it's $250 a tire, it's a good deal to me. Keep in mind that my Integra's tire (195/60/14) is already at $120 a pop. :-)
Nothing is more scary than hearing the wife and kids get stranded somewhere late at nite due to a flat tire. I don't wanna be cheap when it comes to tires. :-)
We'll just agree to disagree on Michelin quality. I believe they're overrated--one of those brands that is #1 in brand recognition, but isn't the best brand.
My Volvo S80 came with Michelin MXM4's when new. They were horrible on anything but dry pavement. Couldn't get them off fast enough--and wouldn't let my wife drive the car in the rain until I did.
These days, it is rare to have radial tires blow up on the road. I, for one, think Michelin is over-rated. My '01 Odyssey came with Michelin. It squeak every time I turn aggressively. My wife keep saying I should slow down (being a BMW driver, it is a hard thing to do). I told her it is the tires! She, of course, didn't believe me until we changed the tires to P.F.Goodrich at Costco (at 60% of the cost of a comparable Michelin). It now turns shapely, stops better, runs more quietly, and so on. Even my wife agrees now. I have tried many brands of tires on my BMWs (being Z-rated et al). I do think Michelin have "rounder" tires, which makes balancing easier. Other than that, it is just marketing getting into your head. There is NO statistics showing Michelin is safer. You may prove me wrong and convert me into a believer.
My daughter did a science project on Alkaline batteries by brands. It turns out that all Alkaline batteries perform statistically equally despite the huge difference in prices. Go figure.
I recently bought 4 new tires for my Integra. They were rated #1 by CR and were $43 apiece.
........ All-New Acura RL,for the first time in a North American vehicle*, standard real-time traffic information integrated into a new in-car satellite navigation system featuring AcuraLink(TM). Utilizing the XM NavTraffic(TM) service beamed from XM's satellites, the large 8-inch navigation screen can display a variety of up-to-the-minute traffic information where available including flow (traffic speed), accidents, and construction on freeways in 20 major metro areas including Los Angeles, New York and Chicago. Flow and accident information are updated continuously, allowing drivers to take the least congested route to their destination.
In addition to enabling the real-time traffic feature, the AcuraLink satellite communication system allows for communication between Acura and the vehicle, providing customers with the latest diagnostic information specific to their vehicle as well as vehicle-related messages. Because it works with the car's HandsFreeLink? wireless telephone interface, drivers can respond to messages or one-touch-dial Acura dealers and Acura Roadside Assistance (TLC) using their Bluetooth phone.
I happened to be watching RL closely as well. So, I guess I can answer your questions.
GPS_NAVI carries no monthly fee. However, you probably would need to update the software and data base (new roads, gas stations, etc.) every 3-5 years. That would cost around $200 bucks. That is NOT mandatory.
New RL come with many new technologies such as Real-time traffic. It is based on XM radio carrier. Therefore, there is a fee for that just like XM radio itself. Also, the OnStar carries a fee. HandFreeLink itself carries no fee but you need BlueTooth with HFP (HandFreeProtocol) support. But, the NAVI on Odyssey does not have this feature. Both come with voice recognition technology from IBM, which is one the best in voice recognition in USA.
Also, does anyone know if the 2nd row bucket seats of the Touring and EX-L are the same (aside from the fact that the "plus one" seat is between them on the EX-L)? The pics for the ones in the Touring look very nice so I wanted to know if they were the same.
Thanks,
Scott
Although I would prefer the 2005 Odyssey, a 2005 Odyssey LX would cost about twice what I paid for my 2002 Chrysler T&C that has less than 27,000 mile on it.
The 2005 Odyssey will be the undisputed "Top of Class" minivan.
Not sure about that. The PAX tires are not more quiet than the regular tires. It's probably because of the VCM engine system.
#2. Is separately controlled temperature for driver and front passenger available in LX as in most DC minivans?
#3. Is there an overhead console as in the Sienna and DC minivans?
1. The column for new features is not marked with an x. Therefore, the passenger seat adjustment is the same as that on the 2004 Odyssey. If the 2004 Ody does not have a lumbar adjustment for the passenger seat, then the 2005 doesn't either.
2. Driver seat lumbar support is shown as a separate line from driver seat adjustment. Honda includes even the smallest of features in this list, so it would have listed lumbar support for the passenger seat as a separate line if the Ody has it.
ac00lra -- I never have blown tires and you have more than once. I read a acrticle few years ago and confirmed in CR rating on tires (don't remeber what year), 90%+ blown tires are due to inproper tire pressure and premature/uneven wear due to mis-alignment. All my friends who regularly check tire and do aligment don't have blown tires. Many owners don't do it because not listed in the maintenamce schedule from user manual. The tire could pre-mature worn and need to be replaced. If owners don't check the tire and pressure regularly, those sign of wear will be neglect and most ended up blown tires. I check my tires visually everytime I pump gas, and measure pressure when suspect losing pressure. And measure pressure every 3 months and some times adjust the pressure based on season. Lower in Summer and higher in Winter. So to me, routing checking is far better run flat tire. Some will say you can't avoid the nail and still need service. Unless cut on side or big impact, the tire will only leak very slowly. The leak mostly happen when cold and mostly overnight. So you will need to put on the spare 90% during the day unless you used to drive in the night and sleep in the day. PAX can't eliminate the risk when blown and just give the edge for minimum control. Best way still is regular check up.
That is why the numbers are only good when comparing cars to each other. Different temperatures, and particularly altitude, can have a large effect on mileage.
Does it get cool in west Texas?
Hehe, well I guess I live in an area that rains less than 2 weeks a year. :-D And I normally don't try to burn rubber either. So the performance of Michelin works fine for me. And MXV4 on my Integra usually lasts 80K+ miles before getting replaced.
I do agree about the lack of shops that carry PAX tires currently. But I'm pretty sure if they sales of the PAX picked up, there will be a lot more shops willing to carry them. In these days and age, it's not hard to search the web for places that carry them. :-)
This link would be helpful for those who wants the details.
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/dearmfr/gasmel.pdf
Well, I might not have checked my tire pressure as often as I should. However, I do the same to all the brands. I just have better luck with Michelin. With the Yokohama, it's rated at 44 PSI and I normally put 32-35. The Good Year spec'ed at 36 max and I also do 32. The Michelin is also rated at 44 and I do 32-35 also. So I think it's a fair comparison. :-) I noticed that even the Yokohama shows some hairline crack on the sidewall after about 40K miles. And I do put Armor All tire shine on all my tires. But I never saw a crack on the sidewall on the Michelin even until I replaced it at 80K. So that's how I got my bias based on my personal experience. :-D
PAX can't eliminate the risk when blown and just give the edge for minimum control. Best way still is regular check up.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Yes you definitely need to check tire regularly with any tire. But I don't want to have to worry about my wife and kids in a car with a flat tire. Last time this happened, I had to tell her to drive 10MPH for 2 miles until she reached home. She definitely can not replace the tire. And calling AAA or some other roadside assistance service is not exactly a pleasant thought either. I guess I'm just too paranoid due too watching too many psychotic thrillers. :-( And it was pretty stressful for me to think about it.
You didn't buy it on eBay, did you? J/K. What brand are these, I'm curious. Like I mentioned, I don't mind paying premium for a tire that I trust. I don't wanna be cheap when it comes to tires. :-)
I can't wait to try it out.
Being able to give voice inputs on specific home addresses is something else. And also to control the DVD RES by voice commands is awesome--talk about extremely convenient!
I suppose if I lived in the desert southwest, I'd consider Michelin more seriously. Read the wet weather performance ratings of many Michelin OEM's at the TireRack website. Lots of 3's and 4's out of 10.
Congrats to all of you who end up getting an 05 Odyssey. The van looks like it will be a winner. I will look to get one (an 07, or an 06 on the cheap) when my lease runs out in 2 years.
Bryan
The EPA does all of its tests indoors in a laboratory. They do not test on real roads. The average speed does not exceed 48 mph. But you are correct about the air conditioning not being used. See the last post by Ceric, and read the pdf file from the EPA.
Currently the EPA is accepting responses from the public about how the tests should be modified. Some here may be interested in writing to them. I personally want them to go to a direct fuel consumption method instead of the current "chemical balance equation" method for computing mpg.
Have you considered a lumbar pillow? They have some pretty fancy ones available.
IMO, if this is an absolute must for you, get a different vehicle.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.