Jeep Liberty Diesel

farout

zachinmi: I am not positive if fuel stations have to label that the diesel is Bio fuel, do they? If the do and maybe some don't then a person could hardly be responsible under those circumstances, could they?
The big problem Bio diesel fuel according to "Dan" is that Bio fuel lacks the lubercating quality found in petrol fuel alone, and the very wide consistency of the fuel quality. I think in time these quality problems will come under strict regulations and resolve it's self with vehicle makers pressure. Yes I do believe the Dr. Z saying that DCX is a green company is mostly for show. and is a dog and pony show. No where does anyone or the Owners Manual say to save fuel receipts, that would be utter nonsense in my very humble opinion.

Farout

farout

eebro: I was also told you could install a 45-RFE in this liberty, and the PCM would run the transmission, it's just there would be no 5th gear, because the PCM would not detect it was only a 4 speed, I found that real odd, but these computer driven vehicles are the mode of whats being used now and more are coming, we will just have to get use to these little glitches.

Farout

farout

siberia: That might be it, as I am not into doing this mechanical work my self (I turn into the incredible hulk) because I have no patients for my clumsiness. That and I would hate to have anyone hear sware words come out of my mouth, like grandkids or anyone else. So I can not say for sure what the bell housing is like.

Farout

zachinmi

Thanks Farout. I don't think stations are required to label that fuel contains biodiesel, but all the ones I know of do have a sticker on the pump saying "B2" or "B20". It's a marketing thing for the soy biodiesel sellers.

I am wondering if I should call Dan myself. While your big post is very helpful, the reported statement of Dan that biodiesel lacks the lubricity of regular diesel is strange; the biodiesel promoters in fact loudly proclaim that biodiesel has inherently better lubricity than petrodiesel, and it seems to be backed up with lab tests. One mechanic I know (not employed by DCX) specifically told me to use biodiesel whenever possible for this reason.

In looking back at your post I see you noting that he said to change the fuel filter regularly to keep water out. Now water can get in any diesel but biodiesel is especially susceptible, and I know water can damage fuel system components. Any idea if that might be the issue? I am also wondering if people with damaged injector pumps might be using "homebrew" which I steer far away from (because who knows what the quality is).

As for saving fuel receipts, everyone should make up their own mind, but in my view any fuel system problem in the first 100,000 miles is a result of either a manufacturing defect or bad fuel. You can bet DCX will try to blame bad fuel, so I keep the receipts in case I ever have to fight it out. Hopefully I never will.

farout

zachinmi: Look at post 7293, 6th paragraph, last sentence. Perhaps what you call a fuel filter, is what actually is called a water/separator filter. Yes this is vital to change according to the Owners Manual. The Tec expressed this and said it only takes a small amount of water to destroy the pump.
I wrote a different post that was returned to me for posting information that is not allowed. So I changed some of it this to comply with the regulations.
If you want to call the Tec, that's fine, and if there is anything I have said that is not accurate please let me know so I will know and others as well. Thanks for your comments.

Farout

farout

Sorry I forgot that phone numbers were off limits. My wife calls these "senior moments". I will try to remember.

Farout

farout

Does anyone know if there are any changes in the 2007 Liberty besides no CRD?

Farout

farmer52

BioDiesel has better lubricity, a greater propensity for water, and worse cold flow properties (gels at a higher temperature) than 100% Diesel. B2 and B5 show the greatest improvement in lubricity but levels off with B10 and higher blends. Typically no lubricity improver is needed in BioDiesel blends. However the Diesel fuel used in the blend probably already contains lubricity improver.

farout

farmer52: This helps me understand the Bio fuel a little more. How do you think the propensity for water can be dealt with so B-20 could be used without fear of damaging the pump and other parts. I think I read that the pump is pumping somewhere around 20,000 psi or more. That is a enormous pressure in my opinion. I was trained for steam catapults while in the Navy. Super heated high pressure steam that can cut a broom handle in two real fast, and that pressure was less than 20,000 psi. So this pressure is no small thing to mess with the addition of water.
I had originally thought I would go longer before I changed the filter because if the high cost (I was told $150. filter and labor) but have talked to the dealer and it is about $80. which is better.
Have you used B-10 or anything higher than B-5? We have no Bio fuel near us, only a boat dock on the lake has B-2, for large boats, which can't be reached by vehicles.

Farout

thecip

I bought my 05 with 20K on it and started using a B10 mixture immediately. I buy 5 gallon jugs of certified B100 and blend with my local diesel using a 1/2 jug per fill up. I just hit 27K and have not had any issues with excess water. Another CRD owner has been doing the same and he has gone about 4 to 5k on B10. No probs for him either.

DISCLAIMER: This is not an endorsement of voiding your warranty by using a blend higher then 5%, just my experience as an early adopter of alternative fuels. I would use a higher blend but I have to drive an hour one way to get what I use now.

zachinmi

Farout, after reading everything I'm inclined to change my fuel filter/separator really soon. Sounds like this would be a good idea even for people who never use biodiesel blends. However I'm not losing sleep over this. I will say that my local source of B20 has a very big fuel/water separator right where the pump hose comes out of the pump, and I assume this is to keep the water level in the fuel minimal. My understanding is that all diesel has some water but that biodiesel may contain more both because water has to be removed in the process of purifying it and because it absorbs water readily when it gets the chance (humidity, leaky tank covers).

I wonder about the damaged pumps - there is a significant biodiesel homebrew community, and a lot of what they make isn't real pure. When I read about biodiesel problems in the VW TDI's it usually seems to involve homebrew. I wonder if anyone has had a pump fail solely due to quality commercial biodiesel. I know I've read on other forums of people running B99 in the CRD without a problem (only in the summer!). I've never used higher than B20, and since the tank has never been completely empty before filling I've never gone past about 16-17% bio in the tank and more commonly am well below 10%.

One other thought - most of the local sellers of B20 cater primarily to farmers, who are putting it in everything from pickups to Class 8 semis to huge John Deere combines. With the possible exception of pickups, their diesel engines cost more to buy or fix than our CRD engines. I can't imagine they would keep selling it if those users had problems. Now it is possible that our CRD would be more susceptible for some reason, but I think it is safe to say that quality B20 is safe to use in many diesel engines. Whether the CRD is in that list - I think so and hope so, but I'm not making a guarantee.

massappeal106

Farout

I've been running b99 in my crd since I purchased it in March. I've had no issues at all. I've noticed a small reduction in power, but not enough to complain about. The biodiesel I use is brewed by myself and a few other guys from waste grease.

Cheers!

farout

massappeal106: I am glad it's working for you. Keep us informed from time to time as how things are doing. I will be interested to hear about your venture.

Farout

steve05

Here's an exciting new thing - twice in the last week, right after startup, I put it in gear, idle forward about 20 feet, and the tranny locks up and stalls the jeep. Nice. Just turned 6000 miles. Can't get into dealer until next tuesday. Maybe I can get stranded somewhere this weekend....

thstranger

HI FAROUT,
THANKS FOR THE TRANSMISSION INFO. I HAVE 1478 MILES ON MY 2006 CRD "BUILD DATE FEB.2006" TRANSMISSION LOCKED IN 4th GEAR, PARKED IT, 2 DAYS LATER IT DROVE FINE TO THE DEALER... TECH SAID IT IS A BAD SOLENOID, WAITING ON THE PART !!! DO YOU KNOW OF ANYTHING I MIGHT NEED TO ASK THE TECH, HE TOLD ME I COULD DRIVE IT HOME TILL THE PART CAME IN ?
WHAT IS "B99"..AND IS IT EASILY MADE ??
THANK YOU

steve05

STOP YELLING!!!! All caps is bad form in the forum, sport.

steve05

If I may jump in here, Farout: Biodiesel is made with a corrosive procedure that can be quite safe and fun WITH the right equipment. It is not something to try without the proper research, knowledge, and equipment.

thstranger

YOU'RE ACTING "SILLY" ABOUT THE "TYPE", SPORT !!!
SOME PEOPLE HAVE A HARD TIME READING SMALL TYPE !!

farmer52

Farout - There is a "water in fuel" sensor in the filter. If you have enough water, a light in the dash will illuminate. I plan to drain some fuel from the filter when I get 15K miles and see if there is any water. I am also thinking about changing the fuel filter at 30K mile intervals.

FWIW - I changed the engine oil and filter tonight (9400 miles). I drained the Shell Rotella T mineral 15W-40 and filled the engine with Shell Rotella T synthetic 5W-40. I am curious to see if my fuel mileage changes. I filled with BP Supreme tonight and my fuel mileage was 29mpg corrected (2WD and no A/C). I have yet to break the 30mpg mark.

farout

farmer52: I had the dealer drain some off. I think they used a drain of some kind at the bottom. At any rate at 14,000 miles they said there was no water in the filter. I really do not know exactally how they do some things, I try to watch when I can. They prefer to keep customers out of the work areas. I think you made a wise move by changing to the 5-40w synthetic oil. I use the Rotella 5-40 as well, but mainly because I could not find Mobil 1 5-40, and when I did it was $2.00 more a quart over the Rotella, which comes in a gallon for $15.32 at Walmart.

Farout

nescosmo

If you want to save up to $100.00 in your monthly fuel bill go to Costco or any other place and dump your air of your tire and fill it up with nitrogen. It will last you longer in you tire because the molecule of the nitrogen is larger than the air and also will give you better mileage yes better mileage at this time of high fuel prices.

-IT WORK-

thstranger

how does this work ?

anomious

YES! I have been using 78% nitrogen as far back as I can remember! I run it at +2 psi... It does have a positive effect on mileage!

Cheers! LK

tidester

SOME PEOPLE HAVE A HARD TIME READING SMALL TYPE !!

That's true. Unfortunately, people tend to ignore postings written in ALL CAPS.

tidester, host

tidester

using 78% ... I run it at +2 psi... It does have a positive effect on mileage!

I'd be interested in seeing some real world numbers on getting better mileage with N₂. Theoretically, the differences should be entirely negligible at highway speeds or lower. Increasing tire pressure by 2 psi with plain air should account for any improvement in mileage.

tidester, host

nescosmo

The other day I was going 65mph and the rain start coming down; I like to ask to you all at what speed can I engaged the full time 4WD.

caribou1

nescomo, when going through a series of cuves it's 55mph. On the highway I often shifted between 2wd and 4wd at 70mph and I never felt anything going wrong. As long as there is no difference of speed between the front and rear driveshafts there is no effort on the coupling.

caribou1

78% Nitrogen is the air we breathe:
http://www.tkb-4u.com/articles/consumables/whatisnitrogen/whatisnitrogen.php
I've been using straight nitrogen out of a nitrogen cylinder from work for more than 1 year. The tire pressure stayed constant and all of a sudden it dropped in the 5 tires. I can't explain why and the temperature when I filled my tires was cooler than when I noticed the change. I must have been over confident :surprise:
I would recommend not using air coming out of a small stand-alone compressor. Some small filling stations use this type of compressor. They are not larger than a cube of 18". These units can't eleminate the ambient humidity and pressure varies more because of the water content of the air. You can read about this here:
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_05/textonly/m03txt.html

farmer52

farout - There is a drain at the bottom of the fuel filter, although difficult to access.

I think one can use 15W-40 in the CRD without any problems. Based on experience, I wanted a 15W-40 oil during engine break-in. My only concern is using a heavier weight oil in the winter with a vane type oil pump. I am not sure how cold temperatures effect the oil flow inside the engine with a vane pump. FYI, Mobil 1 is not the quality oil that it used to be and I KNOW what goes into Shell Rotella T. Shell has always been the premier Diesel engine oil. I do not work for Shell.

siberia

YES! I have been using 78% nitrogen as far back as I can remember! I run it at +2 psi...

I got your joke, Nescosmo. I thought is was pretty clever - wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

siberia

Farmer2, based on hands on experience (oil changes), the oil coming out of a completely warmed up and normally driven CRD is considerably cooler than oil I have removed from my gassers. I think this is due to the relatively large aluminum alloy pan and maybe the engine itself. My opinion is that it would take more than light duty operation, outside of hot southern states, to really get the oil very hot. Thus thinner synthetic oil is specified for the CRD. Also, running the oil cooler extends oil life.

siberia

Oops! I should have said, I got your joke Anomious.

caribou1

You may know that there are industrial gasses called: "MIXTURE WITH NITROGEN PREDOMINANCE". You can also use one of these mixtures to inflate your tires... These gasses are practically pure and contain no water down to the ppm level.

nescosmo

Caribou1.... I buy nitrogen all the time I am in the A/C business and I use it to clean condensers and also to clean the A/C line when there is a burned up compressor. Nitrogen is the only gas that you can use to do that, because it is dry no other gases can be use. The CRD tires can use it because is a complement to the tires,-you don't have to check your tire air so often. And also increase your mileage.

siberia

I fill my compressor with the garage closed and the CRD running. That way, the air in my tires smells like diesel too.

caribou1

Nescosmo, I haven't found any reproduce able difference using pure nitrogen gas in my tires. When the 5 tires were mounted the technician had to use a quick air-release system (that had a 1/4 turn 1" ball valve)to bring the sidewalls out as far and fast as possible. This thing is built in the states by the way. It's called an "AKA" cheetah bead mounter.
Then he used compressed air again to seal the side lips without having the valves on. It's only from this point he put the valves on and used nitrogen. I evaluated having roughly 70% of normal air in there.
I emptied the tires one by one resting the truck on a jack and refilled them completely using dry nitrogen from a battery (minus one atmosphere worth of gas). I can't do better otherwise the tires will collapse and this took me close to one 1/2 hour of work. I took this test seriously and I'm not convinced of any benefit today. Fuel quality dropped here after the hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico (I won't say why...) so this excludes the mileage comparison but the pressure remained very stable in the 5 wheels and then dropped evenly by almost 10 lbs. If someone had played a trick on me at least the spare tire would have been saved :sick:

new2diesel

Sounds like the dreaded Transmission failure I have been dealing with. Parts are still on order - been right at 30 days now. Looks like the lemon law will be triggered! This gets messier by the day. :lemon:

new2diesel

8/11/06 - still waiting Now at 30 days.

bigjohn10

Farout you completely misinterpreted my statement. If you reread my statement you will notice that I qualified it with the phrase "based on this forum" which means everyone posting already bought one and is complaining about them. My comment was not meant to insult anyone but was rather just a casual observation. There is no info available when they first come, you have to wait until someone actually buys them before you can get feedback. So the exisitng buyers would not by any means have had rocks in their head.They would have had no way of knowing about all these problems. Jeep usually makes a good product. After all, can you point to one post that says "I love my CRD and it runs just great"? I keep reading about all the EGR problems, tranny problems, tire problems, fuel mileage problems, check engine light being on more than it is off, etc. I do apologize to anyone who was offended but that was not my intent.

anomious

Farout!! I see where you're coming from but I think that you read it wrong... He said that based on this forum... Meaning the information that has been presented in this forum... that a person would have rocks etc! He knows full well that none of us had that information when we bought the liberty. He meant no disrespect!

Now kiss and make up! Lol

thanks! LK

thstranger

Hi Farout sir,
Thanks for the transmission info. I have 1478 miles on my 2006 CRD "build date Feb.2006", transmission locked in 4th gear,parked it,2 days later it drove fine to the dealer...Tech said it is a bad solenoid,waiting on the part !!! Do you know of anything i might need to ask the Tech.? He told me I could drive it home till the part came in?
What is "B99"..and is it easily made??
Thank You, sir

farmer52

bigjohn10 - perhaps you should go back and read some of my earlier posts. I love my CRD and it runs just great! I have 9400+ miles on my 2006 CRD Limited 03/23/2006 build with NO problems. As I also said in an earlier post "I am keeping my fingers crossed and thanking the man upstairs that I do not have any problems."

Now this message will probably jinx me!

gerbs

Big john , I love my crd and it runs great. Build date 4-05 , 11.500 miles. average mileage 23mpg and the best mileage 30mpg.

tailgate

>>After all, can you point to one post that says "I love my CRD and it runs just great"?<<

Now I have a dog in this fight... No bigjohn10, we don't all choose the same words as what your wrote above. Bare in mind, I don't want to convice you to buy what you really don't want, or what your afraid of, however it is evident to me that you have skipped several posted messages, including some of mine.

You also should realize you are not doing anything near a scientific study for a variety of reasons, the biggest one is the lack of "others familar with this vehicle sources" available for those who might have problems, questions or concerns.

I would recommend you consider buying something else, this way you don't beat-yourself-silly when/if you have a issue, if you buy a CRD.

No offence, but I predict if you don't buy one, and your sitting in your new "other" ride, and see a CRD sitting in front of you at a stop light, and you will think about us here on this information exchange board, and wonder what is like to have a Turbodiesel in a small SUV, and you will be watching the car lots, hoping to find a nice used CRD for a bargain price.

Tailgate :shades:

goodcrd

I read earlier about a few owners complaining that the clothe seat are hard to clean. My daughter spilled a pepsi on her lap and got it all over the front passenger seat. I also spilled some coffee on my driver's seat. That was a few weeks ago. I finally got around to cleaning the jeep up today. I used a Bissel little green machine upolstry cleaner on the seats. They cleaned up great. It also got alot of dirt from the seats. When it all dried the stains were gone and seats looked like new. The machine goes for about sixty bucks at Walmart. I originally bought it to clean up after my dog when I was house breaking him. Good luck. And I love my CRD. 33,000 Miles and running great.
One last note. Have your Optima battery checked next time you get the CRD serviced. Some of these batteries are defective. They are not taking full charges due to internal problems. So when the alternator doesn't charge the battery due to the pcm sensing high engine load the voltage available to the pcm falls below specs and can cause the pcm not to function properly. Good maintenance practices call for checking your battery and charging system when you change your engine oil.

arvman

I'll be happy to post that I enjoy this vehicle.Despite some problems it continues to run fine.The mileage is getting better as the miles increase,had it a year now.If it does become a bag of hammers I'll deal with it or get rid of it but for now my only complaint is the wife won't let me go inthe woods with it yet,cheers,arvman...

winter2

I am using Amsoil 15W-40 synthetic oil in my 2005 CRD. I have been using it for the past 3000 miles without a hitch. When you look at the specs for this oil, they are close to Mobil 1 5W-40 and Rotella 5W-40 synthetic oils. I intend to use this oil year round.

As to a vane type pump, the oil viscosity should not be an issue.

winter2

Frankly bigjohn you have left yourself wide open for the responses you have received.

Yes, there have been issues with the CRD and some owners have complained more vociferously than others. I have had two minor issues with my CRD, but am quite pleased with it.

No one builds a perfect car. Look at Toyota. They have had to recall more than 1,000,000 cars over the past few months and they are considered a premier builder of cars and trucks. Look at some of the Toyota forums. 2007 Camry cars with bad automatic transmissions, electrical problems up the wazoo, steering components that are faulty and ball joint problems too. You will find that there are people in these forums that complain just as vociferously about there Toyotas.

As far as I am concerned, Jeep makes a product that is just as good as what is made by the likes of Toyota. I have good friends who purchased a new 2003 Highlander. By 2000 miles they had to put a gun to Toyota's head because of a severe defect with the engine. Toyota begrudging replaced the vehicle when my friends threatened to invoke the lemon law. Since then, they have had the replacement back to the shop at least ten times for a broken sunroof, engine problems, engine check lights, etc. I have had my Liberty back twice. The fuel economy the get is horrible to boot. They have never gotten over seventeen MPG on the road with the thing. I regularly exceed thirty!

goodcrd

Has anyone noticed in all the car sites, even Edmunds, that the jeep Liberty CRD is considered slow? I find this CRD a rocket off the line. It out accelerates most vehicles off a stop light without even trying. I also love the way it accelerates when passing on the highway. It's not a corvette but I find it much quicker then CP reported. It does have a dead spot around 50 to 60 MPH. But man is it quick for an SUV. I've driven chevy's with 6 and 8 cylinder engines. Ford and the wimpy rice burners. This little four cylinder is quicker off the line. Especially if you keep it pushing boost from the turbo. This little puppy is fast and I don't care what these sponsored paper pushers write. They don't give this little jeep the credit it deserves. How about anyone else.

zachinmi

I've been driving diesels for 7+ months now (The CRD and a Ram) and I mostly agree. The CRD is very quick when you push it. But it feels a bit sluggish when you go easy and the transmission upshifts at 1500 rpm. Oh well, I'm getting 23mpg in a 4300lb SUV, I can't complain much. I was driving my mom's 2005 Jetta with the 2.5L I-5 yesterday, a combination that is neither slow nor terribly fast, and was amazed how much it has to rev to do any decent freeway merging.