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doing 75mph when it operates normally and cuts out. My dealer doesn't seem to get any help from Jeep and he tells us its a major problem. Also this diesel gets 21 mpg sorely disappointed in that too. Might as well have gotten a gas engine. Should have gotten something else besides a Jeep I am telling everyone its a LEMON :lemon:
Have you tried a different dealer? Not that this would help as I still have the shuddering issue. I'm curious which dealer told you it's a "major problem"? I've never had mine cut out so I don't know if we are experiencing the same problems.
Gary
LK :shades:
I have had 4 instances of 5 seconds of jerking over 17.5k miles. Last one about 2k miles ago. A reflash after the first time did nothing. It's like turning the key off and on quickly 5 or 6 times. That's why I have never thought it was the transmission. Anyway, even though it is not a "problem" on my jeep I sure do not consider it normal while it's happening!
I own a dodge 3500 Sprinter with a 2.7 CDI Engine 5 cylinder in line, the owner manual gave many types of oil to use including 15w-40. The Engine is made by Mercedes Why Vm motori that is been building this engine on a 2.5 version need cf-sl oil in it and DCX fall it reputation based on this )w-40 oil. PLEASE EXPLAIN. :mad:
I will say that I was a bit surprised when the tech asked if 15w40 was correct; I said no, only 5w40 or 0w40 and only Mobil 1, per the owner's manual, and he looked it up and seemed ok with that. I hope I really did get one of those Mobil 1 oils! More reason for me to do future oil changes myself. However, it drives even better than before the oil change - once warmed up, the idle is so smooth and quiet it's equal to a lower-end gasoline engine in refinement; that may not sound like much praise, but for a 2.8L inline-4 diesel it seems pretty good. I see the running discussion on whether to get the first oil change early or wait to 7500 miles, and I vote for early, especially after getting it back today (this first oil change was at about 2400 miles).
My wife and I agree that there are dealers that have never seen a Liberty CRD. There are some that have and insist it's a MB made in germany by VW.
This is my first diesel and it took a lot of re thinking to go for one. I thought the diesel was a pretty simple engine with few problems.
My biggest disappointment has been the mpg. I get consistently 22mp no matter how I drive. We don't often get on a long mileage trip, and all of our driving is 22 miles here and 45 here and about the same all the time.
One issue I had that DCX could not explain is when we go into a pretty good sized dip, the cruse drops off. We have to drop the OD off before the dip and sometimes it stays in and up the hill, sometimes it just pops off again. Star tells us I am the only person to have that issue. They say its because the cruse is computer driven rather than a servo. What's your opinion. Has anyone else had this happen? Thanks in advance for any responses.
Farout
Farout
Motor oils have a specification of what engines they are designed for, which encompasses purity, additive packages, detergents, etc. The standard specification for gasoline car engines starts with S, e.g. SL for a recent specification. For diesels, the specification starts with C (this actually stands for commercial use rather than specifically diesel, but most commercial engines are diesel). Either way, the original spec was SA or CA, and they use the next letter of the alphabet each time it is revised. The current diesel spec is CI, or better yet CI-4+ (a slightly improved spec that meets CI). The CF standard that is required for our CRDs dates to 1990; it was the latest best spec then, but has since been superceded by CG, CH, and CI. The more recent specification always meets prior specs, so CI-rated oil meets CF specs, but is also better. The gasoline and diesel standards are not interchangeable - an oil can meet both, but just because it meets the most recent version of one (like SL) it doesn't automatically meet any of the others (like CI). I believe the Mobil 1 0w40 is rated for SL and CF, meaning it is current for gasoline engines and quite outdated for diesel engines. The Mobil 1 5w40 and Shell Rotella-T 5w40 meet the CI specification, so they are a better choice on that basis.
As for mileage, I see very little improvement when I'm driving 2-lane highways at 55mph; my city mileage of 17-19 goes up to maybe 20 at 55. Only on the freeway, with cruise set and kept at 70ish, does it improve to around 22-25. I'm hoping that break-in and warmer weather will increase my mpg. I traded a Civic Hybrid for my CRD, so I'm just reconciled to far lower mileage than the 40+ I was used to. I will be doing cartwheels if I can get the 28-30+ that some people here report. However, I'm still reasonably satisfied at my current mpg.
I don't have the cruise control issue and have no idea on that.
I'm hoping and expecting the CRD to be very reliable. The driveline shudder is annoying, but so far no more. I owned two brand-new Hondas before this and one of them (2001 Accord) was nearly a lemon (the Hybrid was trouble free, ironically). My father's Toyota Tundra has minor but annoying brake and suspension issues, and he finally gave up on his Honda CRV after numerous minor issues and a bad dealer (both vehicles purchased new). He has had much better luck with European cars, even though JD Power says they are the worst for reliability. No brand is perfect 100% of the time. I'm not making any excuses for DCX, only saying that I hope and expect the bad cases on this forum are the 1% found with any model of any brand.
Farout, I have not had that problem. However, my cruse cannot handle the transition from down hill to up hill that is every where in Oz. It drops 2 gears and revs up, then shifts down, then up . so, I don’t use it there. I have driven other vehicles in Oz that don’t do any better. Once on highway 65 in heavy rain on the level it felt like I hit a [non-permissible content removed] with a rear wheel. It came off cruse and we were coasting. It also felt like the transmission tried to shift into 2 gears at once. I hope that was a one time deal! (Saw no [non-permissible content removed] beside the road on the return trip)
My opinion, I'm ready to blame almost everything on the computer and/or computer "sloth" ware. Maybe all the D-student programmers ended up at DC.
Zachinmi, thanks for the oil discussion. My observation is that warm to hot weather and straight #2 fuel will do more for mileage than break-in. I lost 2 mpg on winter fuel (on warm days). I get my best mileage when my engine is rattling and noisy on hot summer days with straight #2.
Goodcrd, I agree with you on this one but I am keeping an open mind just in case I am wrong, again. Also there was mention of VW TDI "bucking" on the TDI forum. ?
It takes a few second for all the junk which was held in to fuel filter water separator to settle back down and stop being introduced into your fuel system.
I disagree a little with you on this one because I don't think anything can get through these filters except maybe a little water under certain conditions. However, I have drained my fuel filter 3 times in 17.5k miles into a clear container and found no visible evidence of water. But then most of the jerk in my CRD is behind the wheel.
But if you use B5 biodiesel the lubricating problem goes away
I agree with this one. When LSD is available every where I will use no higher than B5 only in the summer and look for a lubricity additive in the winter.
When LSD is available every where I will use no higher than B5 only in the summer and look for a lubricity additive in the winter.
Don't give up hope, industry is working on anti-waxing and gelling additives specifically for biodiesel. You're winter issues may soon be a concern of the past.
Boiler
One issue I had that DCX could not explain is when we go into a pretty good sized dip, the cruse drops off. We have to drop the OD off before the dip and sometimes it stays in and up the hill, sometimes it just pops off again. Star tells us I am the only person to have that issue. They say its because the cruse is computer driven rather than a servo. What's your opinion. Has anyone else had this happen? Thanks in advance for any responses.
I haven't had my cc kick out but I have had the transmission downshift when coasting downhill. Odd to me since none of my other vehicles have ever done this on the same hills.
Gary
Farout
Farout
Steve, Host
It may be hard to believe but that filter doesn't trap as much as you might want. Diesel has a bigger molecule then gas. Therefore a larger particle can get through. I manage a fleet of over 1200 diesel powered mass transit vehicles. All of our engines have a Donaldson primary and secondary fuel filter and stuff still gets through. Also be very careful from who you buy your fuel. The only supplier I know of who will not drop a load of fuel into a filling station tank if they have more then an inch of water in it is Sunoco. Also I have caught fuel suppliers mixing waste oil in with there fuels. We test our fuel by sending samples of fuel drops to a lab and you'd be amazed what you will find in the fuel. Cleaning solvents come up the most.
Farout
It closes when you shut the engine off to help prevent shaking. It is also used to help the EGR function properly.
After the engine is shut off for a few seconds it drops open.
I don't hear a buzz-just a tinny clank when it opens up again.
Most cars now use Bosch or Bosch-like engine controllers so they have the built-in cruise control. I've not yet been in the situation where mine kicks out. It's been working fine up to now on the motorway when the engine has to stay in 5th gear. But in all cases it's the engine controller via mapping information that decides to change gears when the load is too high and when speed decreases.
Have you ever tried to lockout the OD when using cc? I've done it by mistake and the engine went up in rpm to stay at the cruising speed. When I pressed the button again the gearbox shifted back into 5th gear keeping it's chosen speed. This usually happens when my wife talks to me too early in the morning :sick:
The older cruise controls used what was call a servo and it was, as it controlled position of the throttle, but they were a self-contained unit more analog than digital. All CDR's throttle is by wire, like aircraft. The computer controls the throttle even when your foot is "on-the-gas". The gas pedal is just connected to a position sensor like a glass scale, or a simple reostat signal from this goes to the computer which changes the throttle butterfly's position.
My CDR has the "tranny shutter" also, it pusles when I use cheaper Diesel fuel or have a heavy fast throttle input, let off then it will shutter for a while afterwards. I think it is more a fuel pump issue than the tranny. The fuel rail is pressurized to 23,000 psi to provide the injector enough pressure to atomize the fuel into a highly compressed air in the cylinder. If the fuel rail's pressure isn't close to 23,000 psi the fuel will not atomize completely thus be slow burning, which will not create the correct amount of power, which feel like a shutter or misfire when driving down the road. Remember that the torque converter is "locked" and there will be no cushion between the engine and the wheels. The fuel injectors are "twin staged" that is, they have side ports that pre-spray fuel before the main port opens, this pre-spray helps burn the fuel as it raises the cylinder tempature as the main port fuel is being atomized.
I have posted my average mileage over 10K and one tank full around 14k (26.59mpg), its not what the sales information says. I think the people that are reporting 32MPG are using the trip computer in the Limited when the foot is off the throttle or they are in "metric mode". :shades:
the new torque converter did not fix the problem -w hich I didn't think it would. Nor did the previous TSB (can't remember the #, but it's in an earlier post). So my jeep's back in the shop again.
I have also been leaning towards that it's a fuel delivery issue, not tranny. Some Chyrsler reps are in town at the dealership today and are now helping troubleshoot. They are looking for some other CRDs on the dealerships lot to test drive as they think this is normal. Bouncing around and jerking at 1800 rpm's is not normal for me! They're trying to tell me Dodge diesels do that - but oops, we own one and it never did this! I'll be interested to hear what they come back with tomorrow, but I'm not accepting that this is NORMAL for Libery CRD's, seeing as how only few of us on this forum are experiencing this hestitation on a regular basis.
More later,
Michelle in NM
Nescosmo, I don't understand you post. I use 5w40 oil. I was talking about winter fuel(blended) v. summer fuel(straight #2). :surprise:
Think again, Towwme. I have logged 13 fill-ups of 29 mpg or better with a high of 33.0 mpg. The miles are GPS corrected highway set the cruse and forget it miles. I use the trip meter once in a while to see how it's doing but my mileage calculations are based on mileage data, fuel receipts and GPS correction done on the computer I am typing on. :P
Zachinmi: You did a good explantion but a small correction. The S stands for Spark ignited engines (those with spark plugs) and the C stands for compression ignition (Diesel engines).
Good grief, no wonder some people are having so much trouble with their fuel! Any suppliers less guilty than others?
One observation on the CRD shudder - mine has done two different things, a fairly severe bucking that has only happened a few times and only at either 40mph or 56mph, both of which are torque converter lockup (40 if OD off) or shift points (between 4th and 5th lockup modes at 56 or so). This is a problem, but has only happened a few times. Separately, on almost every drive and at various speeds there are times when I feel a slight vibration or unevenness in the power flow. I'm not sure all drivers would pick up on that. That is slightly annoying but not a problem. Does anyone else notice these two separate shakes? If you have, do you think they're related or different issues?
The cruise is running the computer just like the throttle pot. Mine does not kick out, it just downshifts the transmission to try to maintain speed. It then goes back where it belongs, kind of annoying but you get used to it.
Cummins already makes a 2.8 marine diesel for Mercruser.
link title
On mileage: I use the fill and refill method and the odometer, as I don't own a GPS gaget or have the trip computer in my CDR. I do know My driving is 99%+ highway (with only one stop in a round trip to work) and I drive at 64mph (1900rpm) on 4-lane and 57 mph (1700rpm) on 2-lane roads and my average mileage over 10,000 miles is 23.3mpg. I had 1 tank (476 miles)around 14,000 miles that I got 26.59 mpg. Statistically, I will believe the average mileage with the larger data sample. When I have a sample of 30 tankfuls, than average mileage will be statistically significant. I am glad that anyone is getting 30+ with their CRD, but that also means somebody in only getting in the teens. At this time I am driving the next few tank fulls at 57mph to see what that does, but I can't see 30+.
My new ordered CRD is sitting at the dealer. Because of my travel schedule, I do not plan to take delivery until April 7. I am anixously awaiting the opportunity to start driving it. I live in NE Ohio and the best fuel is BP Supreme. I am also investigating other sources of quality Diesel fuel. I plan to top treat with Stanadyne Performance Formula. I have heard storys of truck stops putting waste oil, etc. in the Diesel fuel. Basically the fuel should be almost clear (water white). I know some solvents are clear too. Diesel fuel quality needs to be enforced at the dispenser not the vehicle.
The 2007 Detroit Diesel Series 60 Diesel engine (HD trucks) will have a throttle valve in the intake manifold. I believe it is used to help regulate the EGR. VM Motori is owned by Detroit Diesel. The fuel is controlled/regulated by the injection pump and nozzles. The engine speed is regulated by the injection pump governor.
The time into the dealer for my shudder issue, the TSB # they used was 18-038-05. My jeep is a 02/06 build. I think I've seen here that there is a different TSB # for 05 models.
Although my shudder works a bit differently than you've described.
Good luck,
Michelle
We've found this bucking worse with OD off, anywhere from 40-50mph, but worse around 17-1800rpms. Yet it still happens from 16-2100rpm's, and with every drive.
With OD on, I get the slight vibration you described, so that's the way we've been driving lately. Yes annoying, but it's the bucking with OD off that worries me most.
We'll see what the service shop says today.
Michelle
Do you live in a flat area where the engine doesn't need to provide 'any special effort' to keep you cruising at 50 mph? From what you describe it seems your converter is opening and closing itself. Can you feel this at a steady 35 mph when pressing the OD button several times? Mine does this below 40 mph so I either accelerate if I can or reduce speed with OD off. The explanation for my truck is that either I force it to stay in 3rd gear with the converter locked or it tryes to get into 4th gear without succes because of insufficient speed.
I still have the original EGR valve and I attribute it's good health and function to the CI-4+ oil presently in the crankcase, a cetane improver, and a good detergent package. In reality, diesels are really simple engines being burdened by emissions controls and poor quality domestic diesel fuel.
Farmer52 and Goodcrd are offering very sound advice when it comes to the care and feeding of your CRD. I have been doing pretty much they are suggesting with a different brand of oil and a different brand of additives and the results have been quite good.
Goodcrd is right about the learning curve when it comes to these engines/systems. The one thing he does not mention is the attitude of the tech ad his/her willingness to learn about this diesel. That is a big factor too. Small light duty diesels have not be placed in a domestically built vehicle in more than twenty years.