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Comments
I for one appreciate the people who are willing to honestly discuss the ongoing problems they have with their vehicles, dealers, and reps. I've owned many diesels over the years and would very much like to buy a CRD, however, I am concerned about the ongoing problems that are evident from discussions on this and other boards, especially the reaction that owners get from DC.
The advice to just sell the vehicle and move on strikes me as poor advice. That just moves the vehicle to another unfortunate owner, it costs the original buyer the huge initial depreciation for a vehicle with little opportunity to get any use out of it, and it allows the manufacturer to get away with poor quality control.
It seems like there is a wide range of experience with the CRDs. Some, like vtdog, have had great vehicles. Many others seem to be suffering from a combination of some common shortcomings, poor quality control, and ineffective service organizations.
Over here DC sells Jeeps in the same context they sell MB: Show you have money first, then you get a good deal.
But when comes the time to get the appropriate diagnostic, you discover that the old smelly diesel engineer has retired and the newer generation technician checks on the computer for a TSB instead of lifting the hood!
In normal life, people who don't understand technical issues have enough substance for discouragement when they are sent away "unhappy" :sick:
1 day was oil change.
One day was software reflash.
I personally know three other people with CRD and with the exception of a EGR replacement, they have had similar experience.
Some people have experience some problems. The ones that have sought assistance have resolved their problems. The "shudder-studder" is the only quirk that is still unsolved to the best of my knowledge.
Others seem to think the best way to solve their problems is to register and then complain post lemon emotorcons.
Surprise....Surprise....Surprise :surprise: You can obtain a solution to problem, or complain about it, I'm willing to help anyone who wants to solve an issue, however, there is no sympathy to the complain group.
Notice the "Lemon" posters never post details such as trouble codes in their posts.
I had the same problems on a trip to SW Colorado last week (and continued through yesterday). Mileage was poor and a lot of stuttering/shuddering. Libby is at the shop right now. One good thing is they wanted to keep the Libby so their one mechanic that has experience with this diesel could look and test drive it. Evidently he was out sick yesterday. Keeping my fingers crossed!
Gary in Phoenix
Gary
There are a wide difference in opinions as to when to change the oil, and what kind of oil etc. For me, I choose to do my first oil change at 9101 miles. I am sticking with Mobil 1 0-40 as the Owners Manual says. You can also use 5-40 if you want. I have tried the PS cetane booster, and anti gel. There was no change in mpg, and no change in the way it ran or started. So as far as I am concerned it was $13. down the old fuel tube. Now there are some who swear by the stuff and wouldn't drive without it. Some use 25-45 oil and just about every brand there is. And there is the fuel you use. The Owners Manual says B-5 is ok for the 2006 CRD. There are some who have run B-100 and some use B-20 all the time. I have only had the B-5 that came with the CRD, and will only use it when or if it becomes required, or I can't find just regular Diesel #2. I think, and so does the www.organic.org, that Bio fuel can vary a lot in quality. In the future this will change, but right now I am not going to use it, if I don't have to.
A good number of those who have had EGR problems and have had it replaced some more than once. I have 11400 miles on our 2005 CRD made on 06/14/05. I have had no engine problems at all.
I make it a practice when starting the engine to give the engine about 1 minuet to get all oils circulating before I put in gear and drive off. About every 500 to 1000 miles the engine acts a little jerky, and I drop speed until I can put it into 2nd gear and take the engine up to 4000rpm's and let it stay there for about a minuet or so and then put into OD drive. This, I think may clear out the EGR. It has worked for me, I read about this in this forum in 10/05.
There is a lot of helpful information in this forum, and it can help you for information you might never have otherwise come across. Good Jeeping.
Farout
Farout
I have two good dealers I can use and I show my appreciation with notes to the manager/owner, and buying a coke or something for the tec while he is working on the truck. It may seem odd, but these service writers and managers and tec's are always hearing complaints, so any act of kindness goes a long long way. It works for me.
Farout
I beg to differ that DCX allows poor quality or has ineffective service. The very worst car made today, perhaps I might say I think the KIA is not a good buy, but I think the Greely form China wind this award. But, the worst car made today is better than any car made in the early fifties. Something to think about?
Farout
Farout
"I don't know for sure but I doubt there have been more than 30 people really unhappy with their CRD in this forum."
Just curious, how many different users would you say have posted on this forum? 30 really unhappy out of 1,000 would not be significant, but if only say 200 have posted, 30 out of 200 unhappy posters would be a lot. I'm quite certain that the number of posters is small out of the 10,000 owners.
I find it interesting when owners of any vehicle want to downplay the faults of that vehicle. Perhaps its a defense mechanism. If the vehicle they bought is a poor model (not saying the CRD is) and they decided to buy one, it reflects on their judgement.
I find in general, most folks love the car they are currently driving, but didnt like their previous car that well. When they are driving something, it better be good of perhaps they made a mistake. Once they sell a car, it is fine if it was not good, then their decision to sell it shows how smart they are. Same with current wives (or husbands) and former wives.
We should all welcome those that are strong enough to complain about the quality of a vehicle they own, as long as the complaints are honest. Along with reading independent reviews, I make it a point to frequent the boards for any vehicle I am considering for at least a month before making a buying decision.
Thanks for the info.
If FAROUT is right would someone post & let us know?
I belong to several forums any you will find that there are some people who will complain about every little thing. These people are expecting "Toyota" or "Honda" quality from their CRD. The bad news is that even those two have their share of problems and recalls.
I have had two repairs on my CRD, a re-flash and an aftercooler hose replacement. Otherwise, the bloody thing runs like a dream and 30+ mpg on the highway is a common thing for me. I owned a Japanese diesel (Isuzu) way back in the early 80's. It had it's share of problems too, but I was generally quite pleased with it.
Many people are fortunate to have a good dealer and a good diesel mechanic who care about you and your CRD. I count myself as one of those lucky ones. Then there are the others who are totally rotten or will only do something if you put a gun to their heads. It is unfortunate that there are those types who only care about the money. I feel sorry for those of you in this and in other forums who are stuck with such dealers.
Then we come down to the regional reps. You can find some that will help and their others who could not care less.
I found this forum after I purchased my CRD. My research consists of talking to not only dealers and their techs, but also to independent garages, trans shops, etc. I spoke with many of each before I made up my mind. This one was a bit different. Chrysler has been using VM Motori diesels in europe since the early 90's successfully. VM Motori has been building diesels since 1947, so I would say they have a good idea of what they are doing. The trans is off of a Dodge truck that takes a hemi and is a MB designed beast. Mine shifts like an MB, quickly and smoothly. I would prefer it a bit firmer and faster on the shift. That will come down the road soon enough.
I would suggest talking directly with the techs and the service writers.
Steve, Host
Can one of you explain this to me. I find it strange since in my shopping for a CRD I am still able to find new 2005s on the lot and its only 5 months until 2007s will be out.
Well after the dealer told me that to replace #2 plus will take all day long, come home to eat lunch and take wife to work. BANG dealer call me an hour later libby is ready come and picked up When I got there the same old story -the job to replace the plug was not so bad because #1 and #2 are in the front and did not have to take the intake magnafold out. Fine, When I came home I look at the engine and it seems to me that it had not been touch at all. I do not trust tha tech. but the dealer is ok what can I do my crd was build on 6-05 and is been working great no egr problem and the mileage do not know because I never check it. I think DC have to address the tech situation becouse when the warranty goes what will we all do. :confuse:
If you have the opportunity to drive a common rail diesel vehicle with manual shift then you will appreciate your automatic even more. The tremendous difference between the older turbo diesels and this one is the possibility to modulate the injection time pulses. When the converter is left unlocked, the engine gives less torque to protect the transmission. This is also when the engine cannot yet give it's maximum power. Take time to observe the tachometer when the converter locks and make a correlation to the throttle pedal (engine load sensor) position. I've driven diesel engines for years and I can say this combination is fabulous. It's not cheap on gas, it's not very fast, it's noisy and I wouldn't change it for anything else :P
This is my second diesel and this far exceeds anything my first diesel could ever do. My first diesel was a 1981 Isuzu I-Mark with a 51 hp 1.8L IDI non-turbocharged engine, and five speed manual transmission.
I hale from the golden age of muscle cars, and especially liked large displacement Chrysler/Dodge V-8's (6+ liters). The transmissions were huge Torqueflite 727 3 speed automatics. They were very stout and had a shift that was very fast, very firm and sounded like a "thud". I fell in love with that and have modified every car that had an automatic transmission to shift just that way.
Now I understand your point about the turbodiesel. Max torque is way down low in the RPM range and that can tear apart just about any automatic transmission. I have observed the tachometer when the torque converter locks up. The RPMs dive right into the meat of the max torque area of this engine. If I keep my right foot in the same position when this lockup occurs, the CRD starts to accelerate very quickly to well past 80 mph! It is a little noisy, but performance is quite adequate and fuel economy, considering the CRD has the aerodynamics of a cinderblock, is very good.
My mechanic told me that the transmissions in our Liberty's are the same used in all of the Hemi powered Trucks from Chrysler. He also said it is a modified version of the 727, basically a 5 speed 727. I guess the older ones where more reliable due to the K.I.S.S philosophy.
The trans in the CRD is not of domestic design in it's origins. It has alot of MB DNA inside. It is an older Daimler design modified for domestic consumption. And yes, it does fit on the back of a Dodge hemi pickup.
Reflash with latest TSB happened yesterday but I didn't drive far enough to see if it fixed anything. If the shuddering continues I'll let you all know.
An aside, I did have an ABS issue where the warning light came on then went off about 5 minutes later. This happened in an icy parking lot last week. Dealer told me there was an error code indictating this but they couldn't find anything wrong.
If you are on a slippery surface and do something that "confuses" the sensors for the ABS,you get a warning light.
I had this several weeks ago when I tried to park in a leftover snowbank and slid/slipped. The dealer said this is because there are multiple weird inputs from the sensors that the ABS computer gets "confused". The light went out after a few hundred feet of driving.
If they put larger/stronger clutches on the common rail diesels, then the burnt smell just might go away.
I have had that happen a couple of times-get on a slippery hill and have it spin 1-2 tires. The ABS gets confused.
Just turn off engine for 30 sec and it will go away.
One thing I noted that when this happens the odometer doesn't work until you reset the system.
Best of luck! LK
:shades:
No matter how good a car or truck may be, unless the buying public buys them there is only so much that a company can produce and not have a loss. This might be the case, time will tell if DCX can convince the public that this CRD is worth the extra price. Time will tell.
Farout
Farout
Right now I would trade the sunroof on my CRD for a dedicated in-dash readout of fault codes and what they mean - just joking. I bought a ScanGauge for use in another car but have used it twice to turn off error codes on my CRD. One time it was a check engine light. I turned that off and it didn't come back. Another time my TPS light came on. I checked the tires and they were okay, so I used the scan tool to turn off that light and it did not come back on.
If there was really something wrong wouldn't the light turn right back on? These things need a computer reset button right next to the emergency flashers. I think the software in the ECU was written by Micro Sloth.
1) how heavy are your trailer and horses?
2) are you planning on short trips a few times a year, or frequent long trips?
The CRD drivetrain seems plenty strong enough to pull the rated 5000lbs. However, I would be nervous using such a short-wheelbase vehicle to pull a heavy, short, awkward 2-horse bumper pull trailer. As you know, horses are the most difficult to pull for their weight, because the weight is up high and can move around. I would worry about trailer sway if towing on the freeway. If you're going to do much towing, or will ever tow in difficult conditions (mountains, snow) I think you would be better off with a full-size or larger mid-size pickup (like the Dakota or 2006+ Tacoma). If you're doing only a little bit of towing and only in good conditions, the CRD should serve fine, assuming that your loaded trailer is less than 5000lbs. Good electric trailer brakes are essential as other posters have noted.
Also, it was October and there was a severe cross wind. The extra weight of the trailer tongue (500 lbs) on the truck provided extra stability to the truck and trailer combination on the interstate. A little math: the weight of the truck was truck+2 passengers+gear+tongue=4,400 lbs, weight of boat axle is 4,500 lbs.
I towed 700 miles round trip many times each summer for 3 years before getting a high mileage GC. The GC towed so much easier than the Dakota that I was hooked on Jeep from then on. My CRD is 400 lbs heavier than the GC and controls the trailer even better. As far as power the GC was a little better and it had a tow cap of 6,500 lbs. I need more time towing with the CRD to give a detailed evaluation. It does fine in the corners and on the hills of the Ozarks at 50-60 mph.
I towed once with a Suburban and it did not pull as good as the GC and it was a TPITA for me to maneuver. Before a Suburban fan reads this and goes off on me, I admit up front that I am not very good with large vehicles.