Maintenance & Repair Costs

blufz1

I also have an 02 and the service guy remarked that the 03's and up were easier to change. I had mine done at 70k. I just get the dealer maintenance till the warranty then skip some. I can grease my own hinges just fine. I buy tires where I get free lifetime rotations. Important things are oil,transmission and coolant fluid changes to me and I get the dealer to do just those. I'm at 84k and have had no extraordinary maintenance.

jeffbog

I have a 2006. Ordered the cabin filter from College Hills Honda. Took maybe 10 minutes to replace. Basically open the glove box, push in both sides which drops the entire door beyond the stops. Take off the filter cover, pull out the old one and reverse. I think handa.com (Honda and Acura parts supplier) actually has a PDF to explain the procedure. I bought the mud flaps and also installed them in short order. Saved at over half the price the dealer wanted for purchase and installation.

royceb

I know that I should help my friend get her cars brakes replaced. The rear brakes seem to be in good shape cause she had them done recently. I think only the front should be replaced. I'm wondering what is a reasonable price to have this done. I think she has been getting taken advantage of by her mechanic. They do many other things that she does not need besides the problem. I would like to find out how much for their labor and standard parts? The vehicle is a 97 FORD CONTOUR.

0patience

oh man, that will depend on a ton of things.
Labor rate of the shop, quality of the brake pads (premium, OEM or economy), if the rotors need turned or replaced, what the shop's standard brake job is (some shops will require that you replace calipers to provied a warranty and yes, they can do that.) and if they charge an environmental fee (most shops do now).

Now, be aware that OEM pads have an update to prevent a groaning noise in city driving, so if they had a low speed groan on braking, you will want the updated OEM pads. If you purchase from the dealer, their system will give them the most current part number.
OEM pads are about $80, give or take.

As for labor time, depending on what has been replaced, can run from 1.0 hour to 2.8 hours.

How does the brake fluid look? Clear and clean or Dark?
If it is dark, then I would recommend thinking about replacing the calipers.

silvernubira

Recently I needed rear brakes for my 1988 Honda Accord.

Monro was nearby and I got their estimate:

Item - Cost of Parts - Labor Cost - Installed Cost

Brake shoes - $39.99 - $75 - $114.99
Brake drums - 75.99 - 0 - 151.98 (2 of them)
Wheel cylinder - 68.99 - 89.25 - 158.24
Wheel cylinder - 68.99 - 89.25 - 158.24
Bleeding the wheel cylinders - 29.95

TOTAL : 613.40 plus tax

I paid $104 for all the parts including brake fluid and tax on everything. My mechanic charged me $89 for labor including tax. TOTAL about $193 including tax.

I find it interesting that MONRO asks $75.99 for a brake drum. I paid $18.88 for each one. I guess one has to be thankful that they do not charge labor to install them(!!) Even Honda brand drums sell for about $50 on the internet.

0patience

Now hold on.
Just because you can go buy the drums somewhere else for less, don't condemn the place.
There are a lot of reasons why some drums are more explensive than others and remember that shops charge you a premium for parts, because they have to pay someone to usually go get the parts, stock the parts and keep track of the parts.

Not to mention the fact that $18.88 drums can hardly be considered high quality. I also know that Honda charges $73 for drums over the counter.

It always kills me when customer starts comparing junk to quality parts and then complains about the difference in prices. Of course there is a difference in price.

So let me get this straight, you have a mechanic who replaced both sides shoes, drums and wheel cylinders and bled the brakes, all for $89 labor including taxes?

Let's look at the labor for such a job.
R&R Rear brake shoes - 1.7 hours
Replace wheel cylnders (both sides), add .9
so that's about 2.6 hours, not including bleeding the brakes and any incidentals, such as brake cleaner.

So figuring that time divided by $89, is only $34/hour.
This guy out of a back yard?? :surprise:

And what kind of warranty did you get? 30 miles or 30 minutes?

Sorry, I don't buy it.

silvernubira

Interesting! I did not think MONRO and similar chains would need defending. Especially if someone does an Internet search and finds out what some shops associated with these chains were up to in the "customer satisfaction" department!

Anyway, let me try to answer your questions, comments, etc.

I used MONRO in the past. They do NOT use the highest quality parts. And I do NOT need the most expensive parts for my 19-year-old Accord with 238K+ miles on it since I will not be keeping it another 19 years.

I got the parts from a national chain parts store. I have $18.88 rotors and pads from the same store on this car that I installed over 4 years and 40K miles ago. They performed great so far. This is not a race car. It is a work car. Actually, these rotors and pads outperformed the MONRO pads and rotors I had on this car prior to $18.88 pads. By the way, MONRO buys parts wholesale in large quantities. I would guess that they probably paid much less than $18.88 for those drums.

A Honda dealer on the Internet has drums for about $50 (I do not recall the exact price since I had no interest in buying them).

I am not sure how "high quality" is defined but $18.88 rotors and pads were good enough for this car and I am sure $18.88 drums will be fine.

I would not call these parts junk(!) Actually, as I stated above they are probably equal or better quality parts than the ones MONRO was going to install.

Yes, labor cost was $89. Independent mechanic, 1 1/4 hours at $66 per hour. He is a good mechanic and very honest and highly recommended.

I guess you are going by "book times" . An experienced mechanic would probably do things faster. My mechanic goes by the actual time he spends, not the book rates.

To give an example, when I replaced the pads 4 years ago, first side took me like an hour, second side took about 10 minutes (learning curve?).

If you check the MONRO labor costs--like for installing wheel cylinders--$90 for each cylinder--you'll see it does not add up.

I had these rear brakes like 3 weeks and 400-500 miles and so far they are performing great. By the way, I do not think anything will go wrong with the drums or shoes. If anything goes wrong with the wheel cylinder, I will spend $50 or so and have it replaced but the probability of this happening soon is like 1 in million!

By the way, what I paid for the parts includes brake hardware. I got new hardware and it is installed. MONRO was not planning to replace the hardware and they were going to re-use the 19-year-old springs.

My original post does not mention independent mechanics and only cautions against MONRO Muffler/Brake and similar chains.

This brake work was done by an independent mechanic and I would recommend everyone search and try to find a mechanic like him if they can.

0patience

Oh get real. I am not defending any shop [to be honest, I have no clue who Monro is], just the opinion that you can get parts cheaper somewhere else.

I get people like you all the time that complain that they can buy the parts cheaper somewhere else.
Usually the parts are bottom of the line parts that I would NEVER install.

I'm always amused by people say my mechanic only charges me actual time. I do too, on semi trucks and heavy equipment, but cars, I use book time.
I'm not gonna say that it always takes me that time to do it, but that doesn't make me dishonest. That is an industry standard and most people know this when they go to a shop.
That is what estimates are for.

As for experienced, well I guess I am just not that experienced in mechanics. I'll have to do some learning. :surprise:

sky23213

I would agree, good indi is hard to find, I've given up.
And I'd always assume that a chain, like the MacTires and the MacLubes, would in no way use anything above the average quality.
Now, 18.88 for a disk - this one I would not touch with an umpteen foot pole. Junk does not even begin to describe it for me.
Just as there is no free lunch, there is a good reason a chinese disk is 24.99 and an OEM disk is 69.99.

jerseyshop

hi, have an Audi Allroad quattro (2002 2.7T automatic) and am interested in the expected lifetime of this car. Re same car, the same repairs guy told me car needed thousands of dollars in preventive maintenance, told spouse that car needed nothing and was good to get to 150,000 miles (has 85000 miles now and frankly I think it's spending too much time in the repair shop).

Interested in what others think is expected max mileage for this car to be fairly reliable. Thank you!

hpmctorque

Most modern cars will go >200,000, when maintained according to the manufacturer's schedule and driven with reasonable care. Go by the manufacturers schedule, and not the dealer's, which is sometimes more conservative, for self serving reasons.

While I've never owned an Audi, I've owned many cars over the years, including high mileage ones. I'd expect your Audi to be no different form most other cars, in terms of longevity. That said, the cost of maintenance is on the high side for Audis, and their reliability has generally been below average, although reliability is probably improving. The bottom line is that, if you accept that the cost per mile is higher for Audi than for many competing brands, you can expect that it should be able to easily go 150,000, and probably more than 200,000, before the cost of keeping it on the road, plus other considerations, becomes unjustifiable.

isellhondas

Ah...it's an Audi.

I can't think of a car that will cause more trouble than an Audi will as it ages except maybe a Volvo.

Anyone who has to work on these will agree with me!

kekachan

I was at a honda dealership getting an oil change today,and got talked into getting the following services done. I'd like to know if I overpaid (and if so, by how much), and also if I paid for services I didn't need. Also, considering that the different services were being performed simultaneously, did I "double pay" for labor? My car is a 2004 Honda Civic, with approx. 45,000 miles. Here goes:

Replace front brake pads: labor, $124.80; parts $68.25, total $193.05

Flush brake system, brake fluid replacement: labor, $96, parts $19.10, total $115.10

Power steering flush: labor, $75.20, parts, $41.50, total $116.70

Many thanks...

qbrozen

well, i can't tell you what was up with your brakes. At 45k, front pads is certainly reasonable.

However, the brake fluid and power steering fluid replacement is not necessary. BUT, since they have been in use for 3 years, I wouldn't accuse the dealership of thievery or anything.

The labor charges on all of the above, however, seem a bit excessive. Looks like they charged you somewhere around 3-3.5 hours for work I could have done in my driveway in about 1.5 hours. And, yes, that is because I would be doing multiple tasks at once. But I don't believe most shops work that way. They charge you all the time for each task.

Mr_Shiftright

Charges look normal for a dealership, although I too think that the power steering flush is not necessary. The brake flush is one thing I often recommend, although I'd have waited perhaps another year to do it. No harm done, though.

so I'd say they didn't overcharge you, but perhaps oversold you a bit.

In other words, you got your money's worth, but maybe didn't need it all.

kekachan

gbrozen, thank you for taking time out to reply...the information you provided was helpful.

kekachan

mr. shiftright,

thank you for taking time out to reply. now i know better.

bolivar

Well, the maintenance schedule in owners manual for my 1992 Accord was 3 years/36,000 miles for a brake flush.

So, to keep it covered under the extended Honda warranty I had, I had the brakes flushed - a few miles and months late, but I did pay for a flush. Seemed like it was about $45.

But - I'm coming to believe a 'brake flush' in a dealership is not what I truly would consider a 'flush'. The is partially based on a several messages a few weeks ago on this topic. I think a brake flush is just sucking out the fluid from the master cylinder with a turkey baster and refilling with new fluid.

What I would actually want to be paying for would be opening up each of the 4 wheels and flushing fresh fluid through to each of them. But, I don't think this is what people are getting. Brake fluid does break down under heat (and brakes get hot) or accumulates moisture from the atmosphere. And this bad fluid is down in the lined and calipers and needs to come out.

Also - power steering 'flushing' is usually not needed. Honda does seem to require automatic transmission 'drain and refill' at what? 60,000 miles/5 years. But many other manufactors only recommend tranny service at 100,000 miles (or more). And this is not a flush, it is a drain and refill.

Truly flushing a tranny or motor is nothing I would ever do as a maintenance item. I feel iff there is significant milage, say 75,000 miles or more, you have a better chance of having something break loose and become stuck somewhere in the system if you start power flushing a tranny or motor. In my opinion, these services are to only separate you from your money.

Mr_Shiftright

More frequent brake system flushes (and I agree, it should be FLUSHED, not sucked out) would be a good idea for cars that remain idle part of the year...say if you live part time in the Northeast and part time in Florida, and your cars sit for 3-6 months.

The whole idea of a brake flush is to prevent the build-up of water/moisture in the system, which can corrode caliper piston bores, brake master cylinder bores and wheel cylinders. Once the bores corrode, they cause leaks in the system, or worse yet, jamming of the calipers or wheel cylinders.

Certainly I would not lament the cost of a brake fluid flush at 40K miles.

The power steering flush is the only thing that sounds rather useless at such low miles.

0patience

To add to what the others said......
The 3 years for brake flush is right on target.
Brake fluid should be flushed through the entire system every 3 years.
As for the costs that were charged, they are with in reason, but most shops would have only added about half that time to the brake job for the flushing. So while the shop that did the work was with in reason for the charges, a more reputable shop wouldn't have hit the person for the full boat on the flushing.

Power steering flushing..........
had the vehicle been 2 years older and had more miles, beings it is a Honda, I would have recommended it.
But being only 3 years old with minimal miles on it, it wasn't really necessary.

The reason I say I would have recommended it later is because Honda's power steering systems are extremely tempermental. They require Honda's power steering fluid.
Using any other power steering fluid will cause problems later on. Most often noise in the power steering or sometimes jerky power assist in the steering.

jipster

Brake fluid should be flushed through the entire system every 3 years

Man, you guys keep writing this, but I have yet to come across an owners manual recommending brake flushes (as well as many other type flushes) as part of routine maintenance. So, is there a conspiracy among the auto manufacturers to have brake systems go bad and put a little money in the pockets of their dealerships... or do you guys know more about automotive engineering than the people that design and build these vehicles? Not trying to be flip... but it is extremely odd. :confuse:

jeffyscott

VW has brake fluid change every 24 months in their US schedule (based on our 2005 Jetta).

My 2007 mazda6 has brake fluid changes only in the Mexico schedule, not the US schedule. Not sure why fluid would need changing in Mexico and not here :confuse: .

bolivar

Go read a Honda owner's manual, maintenance section.

Mr_Shiftright

The only plausible explanation for hydraulics going bad is crude and corrosion in the pistons and/or bores, and the only explanation for that crude and corrosion seems to be water contamination. That is after all, what brake fluid was born to do---grab water. It LOVES it. (which is why you "prune up" if you touch it.

So to me there's enough science behind the idea of a flush to justify it. It's not voodoo like "teflon engine additive".

jipster

So to me there's enough science behind the idea of a flush to justify it. It's not voodoo like "teflon engine additive".

I'm not questioning the science behind brake flushes. But, why most car manufacturers don't have brake flushes as part of their routine maintenance schedule. Since the science is there for brake flushes, why aren't the manufacturers following with recommending them?

Mr_Shiftright

I think most do. My car does (Scion xA)

0patience

GM currently does not put brake flush in their service intervals, why? GM went to a new EPM (ethylene propylene rubber) lining brake hose.
They think that moisture won't be a problem, I guess.

Ford is listing it at every 36,000 miles.

BMW is recommending every 2 years on their maintenance checklist. As is VW.
Honda is showing it on their checklist for every 25,000 miles.

So I am not sure what vehicles you are referring to.

jipster

GM currently does not put brake flush in their service intervals, why? GM went to a new EPM (ethylene propylene rubber) lining brake hose.
They think that moisture won't be a problem, I guess.

Thanks. For the record Mazda doesn't have a service interval on brake fluid flushes either. I guess they use a better quality brake hose like GM does.

sky23213

I raised a similar issue a few months ago in one of the brakes discussion. I wondered why Mitsubishi does not list that at all. While there is no doubt that it is necessary maintenance, it is still a fact that some of the manufacturers don't list it in the regular maintenance. My '01 Galant's Manual doesn't, while the '05 Honda CR-V states to do it every three years regardless of mileage.
Thank you for clarifying the power steering flush - I did it at 123K, wondering if it was really necessary. My gut feeling was though that no matter what some manufacturers claim, I was not comfortable with a fluid that has been there for 7 years and over 120K. Good example between claim and reality - Honda's RDF.

qbrozen

My volvo required it every 30k. And I do mean required. If you let it slide, the brakes became very mushy and unpredictable.

0patience

Was your Volvo one of the ones requiring silicon based brake fluid? If so, then that would explain why it needed changing or would become mushy.

qbrozen

hmmm... I'm not sure. I let the shop do it because I have no way that I know of to dispose of old brake fluid. However, whenever I topped it off, I used Valvoline ... Ummm... I'm not sure, but I know it is some kind of special kind of fluid. Wish I could remember what its called. I think its just Dot 4 (as opposed to dot 3)??

wahidan

I have a 2004 impala with 81000 miles on it which several days ago suddenly began to have the following problem: When the car was turned on no problems arise immediately but after several minutes the temperature gauge began to fluctuate wildly, rapidly rising almost to the redline at 260 degrees. The cabin heater also started to fail and the temperature of the heat even on full power was always lower than normal and sometimes only cold air was blowing. What I also noticed is that whenever the air blowing was very cold, the temperature indicator rose higher and when the air was slightly warmer the temperature indicator would fall somewhat. The car had been running fine prior to this with no problems of any kind.
The dealer diagnosed a bad water pump and wants $475 to replace it and add coolant. I had noticed no signs of previous coolant leak before and would like to have anyone's opinion whether this is a likely diagnosis and if so how much I should be expected to pay for this part. Also, is there any other part which might be expected to have problems if the water pump is bad. Thank you in advance for any information anyone has.

kiawah

If the water pump was bad, OR if you didn't have any coolant (somehow perhaps it leaked out and you didn't notice), you would have both of those symptoms. The temperature meter going to hot, is because no cooling coolant flow. The car heater going cold, is because there is no hot coolant from the engine being passed thru to the heater core. As a result, once that heater core lost it's heat to the cabin, it would blow cold air.

When a water pump goes bad, they usually either start squeaking/squealing and/or start dripping water. You don't mention that you've had any of those symptoms. With 81K miles however, it is very possible to have a water pump go bad.

If it was my vehicle, I'd fill it back up with water and observe whether the problem really is the water pump, or it just lost all of it's coolant via some leak somewhere....and hence fix the leak. If you find it was just a leak, fix the leak, and then drain/flush/refill with coolant. If it isn't a leak and the pump was bad, replace it at that time. But I have the luxury of not being dependant upon any specific auto and have the time to observe what is really happening with it.

Only other thing that might get replaced is a thermostat, which are relatively cheap. You've got a lot of miles on the vehicle, but with only 3 years old I suspect your hoses are still in pretty good shape (unless one of the them was a source of a leak).

So it is reasonable that the water pump is bad. Might not be, but certainly reasonable.

qbrozen

like the previous poster, it SOUNDS like that may be your problem ... EXCEPT for one symptom. You say the temp gauge is swinging rapidly. Now, how rapidly is the question. Certainly, as the coolant stops and starts again, the temp will rise and fall, but I believe it would be pretty slow and steady.

Oh, and I'm not familiar with this vehicle or engine, but $475 for a water pump sounds quite excessive. Are you sure that doesn't include a thermostat and maybe new belts?

burdawg

With transverse mounted engines, $475 doesn't sound bad to me, but I'm not real familiar with this model or how the pump is mounted.
I think I would ask the person doing the diagnosis what is the specific problem with the pump, i.e. is it leaking or are they just throwing stones at the problem? If it's leaking and the coolant is constantly low then it would probably fit your symptoms. If it's not leaking then look elsewhere, the car is to new to have problems with a corroded pump impeller.

qbrozen

well, the part itself is ~$60 (range on carpartswholesale.com is $28-$58). So if that's all that is being replaced, the mechanic is claiming at least 4 hours of labor.

As you say, its a transverse engine, but unless it is so crammed in there that the engine has to be removed, 4 hours seems like an awful lot to me. Maybe the timing belt has to be pulled? In which case, that might as well be replaced while the mechanic is there.

burdawg

There's no timing belt, the valve train is driven by a chain. Of course the serpentine belt will have to come off.
I remember changing the pump on my Taurus a long time ago. It was easily a four hour job. Power steering pump had to come off, and to get it off the pulley had to be removed with a special tool. Alternator had to come off. Also other small parts had to be removed for access to the mounting surfaces to clean all the old gasket off.
If the mechanic is figuring on a new serpentine belt, then the front motor mount may have to come off to get the belt off/on.

0patience

Well, first off you didn't state which engine.
But more than likely, you will be paying the labor and parts for thermostat and flushing.
Why do I say that? Cause I will not replace a waterpump without replacing the thermostat and flushing the cooling system.

Here is the approx labor times for the repairs.
3.4L - water pump R&R is approx 1.4 hours, plus 1.8 for thermostat and .3 hours for flushing.
3.8L - water pump R&R approx 2.1 hours, plus .8 for the thermostat and .3 for flushing.

Mr_Shiftright

I used to have this sign on my toolbox:

"Do it right or do it twice"

isellhondas

1.8 hours for a thermostat??

Must be a nasty one to get to!

wahidan

To clarify my previous post: I have the 3.8 liter engine and the estimate of $475 turned out to be for a new water pump along with flushing the system and also replacing two cracked hoses. I asked the mechanic who stated that the pump was leaking and he was sure that was the problem since everything else checked out including the thermostat. I appreciate the responses I received from everyone for this issue and have decided to go ahead and get it fixed since the quote I was given seems not to be too out of line. Thanks again to all.

tlorenz

i have a '91 ford aerostar that i believe needs a new ignition switch.... the parts store up the block told me the part is somewhere in the vicinity of $20.00... anyone know if it's a job i can do myself?... if not, what can i expect to pay in labor? (i.e., how long would it take on the average to repair it?).... thanks!

kiawah

What were some of the key problems that you had, which I assume the dealership resolved?

bolivar

carluver4, are you also corvette4you from over in the Corvettes topics. He posted about 4 or 5 'ads' over there that were deleted....

Mr_Shiftright

post was deleted for soliciting in the forums. Please continue to enjoy your discussion.

MrShiftright
Host

tdh43

I have a 2005 Chrysler Town & Country Minivan which was just in for routine maintenance at 27000 miles. The dealer is recommending a "power steering flush" for $95.00 along with "brake fluid service" for $133.00. These procedures are not called for in the maintenance schedule and I feel that the dealer trying to sell services I don't need. Should I consider having these procedures performed?

Mr_Shiftright

I'd say no on the power steering at this mileage and I'd have a look at the brake fluid. If it's clear as honey then wait until the 3rd full year of service is over. If you've had it on the road for 3 full years, then a brake fluid flush is not a bad idea. I wouldn't worry about power steering fluid for at least double the miles you have now. But someday, yeah, that's not a bad idea.

tdh43

Thanks so much for your advice. I'll check out the brake fluid and act accordingly.

waterdr

As far as the steering fluid, 27,000 is very low for this to be done and I think 3 years is also a bit on the low side.

If the fluid is really dirty, then I would consider changing it. I typically change mine at 50 - 75k miles. Or, if the system is noisy, then it might need to be changed.

I would say the same is true for the brake service. A lot of places try to sell brake flushes whenever putting on new pads and rotors. That is really wasteful unless the fluid looks bad.

My Mustang is 8 years old with 71k miles on it.....still the original dam pads and rotors...beleive that? 440 hp car too. Best dam OE brakes I have ever seen. I am swapping them this spring and will do a fluid flush at the same time just because of age.