Maintenance & Repair Costs

jb27

Just thought I'd give you all an update, in case you're interested. The second shop charged $89 for diagnosis. Said we needed a new knock sensor ($195 for both parts and labor), and spark plugs ($150 for P&L, which seemed a little high, but what do I know?) in order to pass emissions. We asked about the throttle body and fuel injector service. They said they could do it, but it's not related to the emissions problem (unlike the first shop). They also said our valve cover gasket was leaking onto the spark plug wires and plugs, which is what caused them needing to be replaced. That would be another $165 for the valve cover thing and $180 for the wires, for both parts and labor.

All told, unless there are other shop fees that we don't know about, it should be about $460 for the emissions repairs and $825 including the leaking gasket and wires (which the other shop did not mention at all).

I appreciate the feedback in this forum. Looks like it saved us several hundred dollars. We can put that toward the new brakes and tires they also said we needed.

Oh, and we decided to do the battery and filters ourselves. The first said they charged the battery up for us when we picked it up. Any idea how long that will last?

Mr_Shiftright

Okay....BETTER...I'm a little disgruntled about this spark plug wire business however. I don't see why a little oil on them matters. They're built to withstand oil leakage. So unless they are a gazillion years old, I wouldn't change 'em.

jipster

Sondra, if you're still out there how about an update? I'd like to know if all my great advice worked out for you. I'm sure it did... but still.

sondra3

Hi jipster, thanks for asking. I went and got the car, paid the money. I'd previously called asking about my old engine and they said it was out back. When I went to pick the car up a few days later they no longer had it. The car is running very well but I still think I was ripped off. I'm taking the car to Lexus to have it checked out. If there are major problems I will take some sort of action.

Also going to contact the company the garage says they got the used Lexus engine from, to see if they sold one to them last month. So not much to report other than I have my car and so far it's running pretty well.

xyh

Hi, am a new driver and only own the car for less than a year. I got several small scratches in the front and back bumper, and re-painted them myself using touch-up paint. However the color is a little off from the whole body..... especially the front bumper with a rather larger area... now i am thinking to take it to a body shop to re-spray those areas.... wondering how much would that cost? Can the body shop do the area sprays? Many thanks!!

Mr_Shiftright

Most dealerships hire mobile units that specialize in bumper resprays for about $150--$200, and they do a good job. If you go to a regular body shop, they might charge you considerably more to do this. So check with your dealer's used car department and see if they'll turn you on to the guy who does their bumpers.

xyh

Great...thanks..

happybunny

HI,

Found the FCC ID should be: KOBUTAH2T
Honda wants $110 to replace. I found a place online
keylessremotesonline.com that has it for $38 and I program it myself.

Anyone heard of that website or can direct me to another company to
buy my OEM New replacement remote for cheap?

Thanks,

Jackie

00 accord ex v6 black

bolivar

keylessremotesonline.com

This company might be a big seller on eBay, I just don't remember. And I'm not going to do your work and browse eBay for you.

Go there and check for the people selling the replacement remotes, then check their feedback. If feedback is good, then you should have no problem. Might be able to buy it cheaper on eBay also.

silvernubira

In 1970s, when I needed mufflers for my Pontiac Lemans, I thought $18.95 lifetime warranty mufflers from SEARS were great, until I needed new mufflers. When I needed new mufflers installed, I was told that I had to purcase new exhaust pipes that I did not need. When I insisted, they handed me the new mufflers. From that point on when I needed new mufflers, I would first purchase them, then take the old ones to SEARS and they would refund the purcase price. If there were price increases, I would be told that they could only refund what I paid for the old mufflers.

Now years later, MONRO Muffler and Brake has the same idea. Instead of replacing the "Lifetime Warranty" muffler on my Accord they want to sell me a $20 exhaust pipe for $100. This pipe is in perfect shape (it has only some surface corrosion) and of course they won't even listen to me!

In 1970s and 1980s I did not shop at SEARS. I guess I will not be going back to MONRO until 2020s!

user777

like free lifetime tire rotation and replacement, rarely is something truly "free". even if all the parts and labor were free, there's your time, effort / inconvenience, patience, etc to consider.

jeffyscott

Yes, I had free lifetime rotations once. It was definitely not really free, even though I did not pay anything. First of all required a special trip to the tire store. You could not make an appointment and when you got there they would tell you it will be anywhere from 1.5 to 2.5 hours to get it done.

almagg1

sears has craftsman.

2-1/4 ton $15/pr
no heights given

3 ton $20/pr
13.5" to 21"

13.5 at the low end isn't that kinda high?
it seems i would have to initially put the car jack on a brick or block to get the car up to 13.5"

from what i have been reading the 3 ton would be the way to go. better safe than squashed.

any conmments on ratchet versus peg?

thanks

burdawg

Well, I've never had a ratchet type fail on me, but the pin type has.
The pin types quite often are formed sheet metal with some braces spot welded in.
The ratchet type seem to be better made to me, but you have to insure that the ratchet is fully locked.
I'm sure there's cheap and well made of both types though.

user777

this is in addition to a good set of ramps, or not? i honestly don't trust jacks or jack stands.

if you had the room, what about building your own drive-over maintenance pit? :shades:

whitall

Does anybody know what the mechanic labor rate is for non-warranty work at dealerships? I am in South Jersey and about to go in for a "diagnostic" for stalling. She said it costs $120 and she thought that allows for 1.5 hours to diagnose.

Any ideas on the parts markup (for motorcraft, new, reman. etc)? I think I am looking at a rebuilt steering rack.

How about the bodyshop rates? I am considering a new bumper too. I doubt they would attempt a "repair" of my existing.

Thanks.

qbrozen

well, i can't give you specifics, other than to say I know the volvo dealership in Princeton, NJ charges $95/hour. So $80/hour doesn't sound too bad. A private repair shop I used to visit was $75.

jeffyscott

I think $65-95 is typical here (WI)...with dealers at the high end, maybe $80-95.

Body shop labor is a lot cheaper. Last time I had something was a few years ago and rate was like $45, IIRC...I think dealers may have been around $80 at that time.

whitall

Found out the labor rate varies, within my dealership from 66-102 (and they don't do body work). He said the rate depends upon the job! I need an idle air control valve and of course that is at the $102 rate. They want $51 to put it in. That is half an hour, yet I was told it is an easy job, 10-15 minutes. I have to look into doing it myself--but I could mess it up.

bolivar

The Idle Control Valve on my 94 Ranger 4L was just right there on the left side on the intake, with two small bolts/screws holding it on and and electrical wire to unplug. It had a gasket under it, use care and it can be reused.

Why don't you go to Autozone, etc and see if they don't carry this part, and maybe a counter man would point it out under the hood.

This part would be a good one to start your do-it-yourself career on.

whitall

Maybe I'll try that, I have a NAPA store that might help out. Many boards I've read have said to use OEM parts for this particular part as the aftermarkets have higher failure rates. I could still get some knowledge though.

As for my "do-it-yourself", you don't want to hear about the battery that I replaced, after I took off the plastic cap BEFORE putting it in the car, in the same position as the old battery. Turned out the old one was not made for my car and was backwards...zzzzaaaappp! After much internet searching I was guided to a megafuse....and didn't need the alternator one shop tried to sell me. Anyhow, doing it myself is an option I am discarding, though I'll let knowledgable friends help!

Thanks!

isellhondas

Reusing an old gasket like that probably isn't a good idea. Once they have been squashed they need to be replaced. Besides, that new valve should come with a new gasket I would think?

bolivar

Well, I've not actually replaced one.

I removed mine and cleaned it.

With the posters description of a battery replacement, I don't think I will attempt to describe a ICV cleaning procedure to him...

isellhondas

I know...I wasn't going to say anything.

It's good thing that battery didn't explode. It's not pretty when that happens!

Mr_Shiftright

It's frightening! I was standing right next to a car when the battery blew up (guy taking battery cables off after a quick-charge at 1 gazillion amperes).

Cost me a nice denim shirt but cost him a trip to ER. Fortunately he was wearing thick eyeglasses but he had a very red face and arms for a long time. We doused him with that eye kit most shops have.

I also had a BMW radiator blow up on me. Thanks to my fast cat-like reflexes, that one caught me on my left arm and long-sleeved shirt, so I just had a little scalding.

Then there was the time a shop towel caught in the fan of my Alfa, broke the blades and sent one flying out....fortunately cheap plastic.

You gotta be careful out there. Cars will bite you.

bolivar

And don't wear a ring or watch (or necklace {who does that anymore}) when working around a battery, or any electronics, or working on anything on a car.

Ring or watch shorted to full battery power will do permanent damage.

Newbie mechanics beware!

Mr_Shiftright

i heard a story second-hand from a friend who swears it happened.

A guy who worked in a Volvo shop decided to work on his own car, doing an all-night bender. Well the damn fool jacks up his car with the hydraulic jack but no jackstands..so he's working away and very very slowly the old jack is releasing. He's on his side and suddenly his shoulder is pinned. he's a skinny guy and the jack fully releases so he is not crushed but he is TRAPPED!

Spent the whole night in there until they opened up next day. I bet he won't be doing THAT again.

hpmctorque

As I read the first line I feared a worse ending. While his episode proved to be a false saving, he was a very lucky man.

isellhondas

After spending most of my life in and around shops of all types.

Car batteries. I have seen them explode violently. The plastic caps will put your eyes out if the acid doesn't.

When I worked for Sears, we had a rash of Diehards that would go off. You can't believe the mess they will make under a hood.

Split Rims...Anyone who hasn't been around when one of these has let go can't begin to comprehend what they can do.

Welding tanks when they fall over and the guages break off.

Frame machines and power pulls in body shops. Just wicked if a clamp breaks loose.

Come a longs. Look pretty harmless until a cable snaps.

And the dumbest one of all...Cinder Blocks used as hack stands!

jrdoa

I just had my 2005 Mercury Montego AWD in for some work and they recommended that I have the injector and power steering serviced. I have 20k miles on the vehicle and am the original owner. The dealer told me I should have these serviced every 15k miles. True or False? Should I get this work done? I was told this would run around $230.

Mr_Shiftright

20,000 miles?

Just skip it and forget about those "services" for a long, long time.

bolivar

I agree. They are reaching for your wallet.

Injectors, with gasoline bought from a 'major' brand station, should go many, many miles (75,000) without any deposits. An injector will probably fail before becoming clogged.

Most power steering fluid is good for the life of the pump. The pump would also probably fail (usually seal or hose leaks) before needing the fluid refreshed.

isellhondas

You know,

All the cars I have owned, I have NEVER, ONCE had my injectors "serviced" and I have NEVER ONCE had a problem with any of them.

Am I lucky or what?

imidazol97

If I was told my injectors need cleaning, I'd got to Pepboys, Advance Auto, Meijers and pick up a black bottle of Techron additive by Chevron. The fuel system cleaner is the stronger of the two they have; the other is called injector cleaner. Follow directions to put into nearly empty tank and fill with gasoline (quality brand, premium if you like) and then drive til tank is low.

If you don't feel a difference after a few miles then your injectors didn't need cleaning and you just spent $6.95-9.95 for a 20 oz bottle but saved yourself whatever the mechanic was going to charge.

danaptcarnut

I just joined this forum and wish I’d discovered it earlier. I feel like a fool! Perhaps I can help save other readers some money and aggravation.

At 29,000 miles I took my pristine 2005 Honda Accord into a Rancho Santa Margarita, CA Honda dealer for a routine oil change. The service advisor talked me into their “VIP 30,000 Mile Service – With Free Oil and Lube - No Plugs Included.” *** Their charge was $362.74 - $260.47 of that was for labor – for service completed in under 2 hours. When I commented that $130 per hour for mostly simple, minor services seemed excessive, the service advisor pointed out, as an example, that the service included a cabin pollen filter, which normally cost $120. He said the filter cost $30 and the labor cost $90. To make the service sound complicated and the price reasonable, he said the glove box had to be removed to install the cabin filter.

I went home and did a quick Internet check. I discovered a genuine Honda pollen filter could be purchased for $13-$16. The glove compartment could be easily removed and the filter installed with no tools by anyone in a few minutes.

I looked at my vaguely worded receipt and noticed how little work was really done. I even wondered if all of the services listed on the invoice were performed. I am embarrassed, feel stupid, and am angry with myself. I feel ripped off by the dealer.

Never again will I buy a dealer’s packaged recommended routine maintenance. Have any others had a similar experience? How unreasonable were the charges? Is there any recourse to the dealer?

*** Services Performed (Maybe?): Rotate Tires; Inspect Brakes; Check and Top Off All Fluid Levels; Perform Multi-Point Inspection Check; Check Lights and Controls; Service Battery; Replace Engine Air Filter; Install Engine Oil Cleaner & Install Fuel System Treatment; Replace Brake Fluid; Service Transmission; Replace Pollen Filter

burdawg

In the future, just have Honda's recommended stuff done. Most of this stuff just lines the dealers pockets.
Your out the money. They're not going to give you anything back since you OK'd the work. If nothing else, you've gotten some education.

bolivar

*** Services Performed (Maybe?):
Rotate Tires; This did involve some labor. 15 minutes.

Inspect Brakes; Looked at the pads while it was in the air. 1 minute.

Check and Top Off All Fluid Levels; Water, PS, Wiper. The Oil, Tranny and Brakes should have been changed totally in the other services. 5 minutes max. All were probably ok.

Perform Multi-Point Inspection Check; Makes a lot of checks on a form. While the car was on the lift in the air, looked around to see if anything was about to fall off or leaking. 1 minute looking, 1 minute checking off form.

Check Lights and Controls; 1 minute behind the wheel.

Service Battery; There is no service, it's sealed.

Replace Engine Air Filter; 5 minutes max.

Install Engine Oil Cleaner & Install Fuel System Treatment; What the heck is 'Oil Cleaner', never heard of this one. Poured a bottle of fuel treatment into tank. 2 minutes.

Replace Brake Fluid; This is a biggie if they really did it and did it right. Might just have pulled old fluid out of master cylinder and refilled. If they bled all 4 wheels as they should do, it might take 20 minutes or more.

Service Transmission; ??? Did they drain and refill the transmission? I would really ask about this, because Honda does want this done at 36,000 miles. Might take 20 minutes.

Replace Pollen Filter. On some older Accords this is pretty complicated. Not only the glove box, but some trim around the console and radio have to be pulled off. Might be up to 15 minutes.

Oh, and 'Lube'. You don't have a grease zerk anywhere on the car. Now they might have smeared some grease/oil on hood hinge/lock, tranny shift cable/connections, etc.

If they rotated tires, air filter, cabin filter, flushed the brake system, and drained and refilled the auto transmission - I would think there are a lot of Honda dealers out there that are charging $600 for this much. If you got all the above, plus oil and filter, it's not that bad of a deal if you are not mechanically able to do these things. And flushing the brakes is not an easy do-it-yourself job, since it would take two people or some special tools to do it.

The only way you might know if these are actually done is to look closely at the car. The brake fittings on the back of each wheel should show wrench marks and some fluid or indication where it had been wiped off. Same for the tranny drain plug. Look at the brake master cylinder cap to see if the dust has been moved around. The new fluid inside should be almost yellowish - old fluid will be dark color. Oil filter should look new. Air filter should be clean, although at 36,000 miles I replaced one that looked new, only had a couple of specks of dirt, but I wanted to have the receipt where I bought it for extended warranty coverage. Oil on dipstick should be very clear if new. If the tires are orginial and never previously rotated, they would have banged up the lug nuts with their air wrench. My Accord EX had chrome ones.

Most of these items are due at the 36,000 mile maintenance schedule. Check your schedule in your owners manual. So, they got you about 7,000 miles early.

danaptcarnut

Thank you. You're right! I've learned my lesson. I hope others learn from my mistake. Trusting the average dealer's service advisor is foolish.

danaptcarnut

Thank you very much "bolivar" for your very detailed and informative reply.

FYI, Family Honda said they did "Replace the Brake Fluid." But they just took the old fluid out of the master cylinder and refilled. They did not bleed the wheels.

They said they did drain and refill the transmission.

Concerning the Pollen Filter, on 2005 model Accords, unhooking the glove compartment and installing the filter is a simple matter easily done by almost anyone in less than 5 minutes with no tools: Open the glove box, disconnect on the right hand side by unhooking the stop. Push in the top left and right sides to unhook the top of the glove compartment from the dash. Allow the glove box to hang down. Remove the filter frame, remove and replace the filter. Replace filter frame. Reposition glove compartment and reconnect stop.

I'll have an experienced mechanic verify everything. I'll never blindly trust a dealership's service "advisor" again. I guess I paid the dealer mostly for my education.

Again, thanks a million!

rpaloti

Does anyone know how to insert the Flame Trapper into the Volvo960. Rob

0patience

Possibly, if we knew what year.

rpaloti

I am trying to find out how we can insert a Flame Trapper Arrester for my 1992 Volvo960. If anyone can help me with that I would really appreciate it.
Thank you.

isellhondas

I'ld love to see you change a cabin filter in 15 minutes!

These are nasty. If it's the original one, a metal brace has be be cut out. It's easier after that one but far from a 15 minute job!

If the right socket is used it won't "bang up" your chrome lug nuts.

bolivar

Isell, on my 2002 Accord it didn't look like it could be done in 15 minutes (glove box plus trim pieces must be removed), but the owner of this car, a 2005, thought it only needed the glove box dropped down, then the filters pulled out.

Since the 2005 is a newer design than my 2002, I thought this might be something that had been simplified. If we had been talking about my 2002, I would have used an estimate higher than 15 minutes for a cabin filter replacement.

I did not slam the dealer too much. Several of the items on the dealer's list were 'do-nothing' items, but I did tell him that, if everything on this list was done, he got a pretty good price (around $350).

isellhondas

I know on our CRV, a brace has to be cut the first time. I'll ask about the newer Acords. I do know it's a job the guys really don't like doing. No, you didn't slam the dealer and I do agree some places add a lot of "fluff".

I do get a bit irrated when some "experts" rattle off one minute times for some things that can take a lot longer than that. If working on cars wre that easy, I guess we would all do it ourselves!

bolivar

Yea, and I know the mechanic has to go to parts and wait till they look up and pull them. Might have to make several walks up there. And one mechanic might not do all the services on such a long list. Some of the things (brakes, tranny) might also need a test drive.

I'm old, fat, and can't see with or without my glasses. My times to do the few thing I still attempt are probably about 10 times the 'book' time.

0patience

One of our guys did an article on replacing the cabin air filter on the Accord.
http://www.troublecodes.net/articles/cabinair.shtml

The support bar has 2 screws to remove it.
On models before 2004, the job takes about half an hour.
2005 and newer, about 20 minutes.

The first time, allow yourself an hour or so.

isellhondas

It's not a "gravy" job. Even the guys who have done lots of these don't like doing them.

Some of those support bars had no screws and had to be cut the first time.

Anyone who thinks it's so easy ought to try one themselves!

0patience

I've never run into the ones where you had to cut the support bar. They must be 99-2000 model years?

user777

In my '03 ODY, there was a dash support bar which had to be cut with an exacto blade. this material no doubt adds structural rigidity when the dash is being put in the vehicle at assembly time. then there was a metal re-inforcement bar which had to be removed. that metal bar no doubt exists for cabin rigidity / occupant safety against engine parts comming through the fire wall in the leg space of the passenger.

the screw for the metal bar is located behind the center console dash in a really really really awkward place. warrants a flex-drive. i think something like that exists so you can apply torque from an off-angle position.

once the dash support is cut away the first time, subsequent changes should be relatively straight forward. but i've learned my lesson. i'm going to look for a flex-drive adapter. the metal bar removal and re-installation is a virtual bear without something like that.

maybe they greatly simplified it in the '05s onward.

i have not tried to change the cabin filter on my '02 accord so i don't know if the configuration is similar or not. i'm expecting an easier time because it has been done for me once before, so at least, no dash material cuts should be necessary.