Maintenance & Repair Costs

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Comments

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    ...but at this point it seems a bit wasteful for people who aren't rich to get rid of a car that seems ok just because it needs a small repair.

    Well, I agree with that too. I am trying not to spend more that about the trade in value of our old cars on repairs at any one time...just so I have a mininmum in it should it do something like blow an engine or transmission, shortly after fixing something else.
  • 1kartowner1kartowner Member Posts: 3
    My exmother-in-law just bought a 1997 audi 2.8 for my 18 rear old son. The car looks clean and runs well. It does need front-end align. and two tires. I have also noticed when in 2nd gear or lower and making tight turns there is no power steering. There are no noises, grinding, or moaning. the reservoir is full. Should I start by draining and adding new fluid it is dark grey in color.
  • yaffiyaffi Member Posts: 18
    Geez, that was a lofty gift. Does your 18 year old son have the kind of funds needed to maintain the vehicle or is your mom going to maintain it?? I would imagine that to be a costly adventure! That is even loftier!! good Luck! I would be interested to see the repair costs as I wanted one but don't think I need the xpense.

    yaffa
  • 1kartowner1kartowner Member Posts: 3
    ACTUALLY SHE PAID 3500.00 FOR IT SHOULD I BE SCARED THAT SOMETHING MAJOR IS WRONG WITH IT? HE HAD A 93 PROBE WHICH KEEPS OVERHEATING PUT A WATER PUMP ON IT LAST YEAR 800.00
    I THOUGHT THAT WAS PRICEY...ANYWAY THE PROBE IS SITTING UNTIL WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AT IT I AM AFRAID IT MAY BE THE HEADGASKET...OR CRACKED BLOCK
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep, you should be scared. A used Audi isn't a good idea for an 18 year old. Maintenance and repair on a car like that is extremely expensive. If you have a defective power steering ram, that's an easy $1,000--$1,200 dollars right there. If I were you, I'd sell it immediately and buy him something Japanese that he can afford to fix. That Audi will (not maybe, but will) drain his (or his mom's) bank account. In terms of cost to maintain, a 2.8 Audi is in the big leagues with Jaguar, Mercedes, etc. Figure at least $150 to $200 a month to keep in on the road, averaging it all out over a few years. This won't include gas, insurance, etc.

    With all good faith and intention, I'd encourage you to bail out because the odds of this working out well aren't very good. It might work out, but you'd have to be really lucky.
  • 1kartowner1kartowner Member Posts: 3
    CAN U GET POWER STEERING FLUID ANYWHERE EXCEPT THE DEALER..HOPING A FLUSH AND FILL MAY HELP
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I spoke to an Audi tech for you. Probably it's the power steering pump. A special pressure tester is required to see if the pump is putting out enough pressure, but most shops just replace the pump as the likely culprit. Pump is about $300, labor about 1 to 1.5 hours, so figure $450. If that doesn't do it, then you have to look at the steering rack.

    The tech says changing the fluid is a waste of time.
  • deaconmitchelldeaconmitchell Member Posts: 2
    I have a 1988 Nissan Pulsar LX and the as is getting to the injectors but they are not spraying. I have put on a new fuel pump. Any suggestions on what the problem could be?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    You should check for an injector pulse with a noid light. If there is no electrical pulse to the injectors, you may have an ignition module problem or an ECM problem. don't know your car real well so these are just generalities. But don't be "guessing". Get the noid light and be SURE you have no injector pulse. Then go backwards from there.
  • deaconmitchelldeaconmitchell Member Posts: 2
    Thank you, I will do that. If that doesn't work I will get back with you for other suggestions.
  • kmausskmauss Member Posts: 72
    Hello there. I'm fairly new to these boards, but I have found them very interesting. I have a 2000 Dodge Intrepid R/T. It only just turned over 60,000 miles and I love the car. It has no major mechanical issues -- in fact the engine sounds like it did the day I drove it off the lot. What's driving me crazy is the all dumb little "stuff" (I could use another s-word but I won't) that's starting to fall apart -- ignition switch, door handles, locks, etc, etc. I paid the car off a year and a half ago, but most of the time, it's still like having a car payment because it seems like I'm repairing some dumb little thing (or more) every month. I just put $850 into the car in December and now last night a door handle broke. :mad: As I am a distinctly non-mechanically inclined single lady, I'm paying a mechanic to do all this stuff, and it's like I'm being nibbled to death by ducks.

    From a strictly objective point of view -- what would any of you "car geeks" be inclined to do? I surely do not want a car payment this year, and it seems stupid to be contemplating getting rid of a perfectly well-running vehicle over dumb stuff like this, but on the other hand, how much money do I want to keep putting into a seven year old car? :(

    Opinions appreciated. Many thanks! Karen
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well to be hard-nosed about it, what you do is compare your monthly repair costs to a replacement car and its monthly payments.

    Let's say a new car will cost you $325 a month. If you are paying (averaging them out) more than 50% of that on repairs every month, you might consider bailing out, because the car is NOT going to get better as it gets older, seems to me.

    If it's less than 50% of $325 a month, then I'd drive it to anywhere around 80--95,000 miles and sell it for SURE.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Strictly looking at the financial aspects, why would you assume it is better to pay twice as much per month in order to replace the existing car? Reality is it is almost never going to be advantageous, finacially, to buy a new car versus keeping the old one going.

    To get a new car you have to pay maybe $20,000 plus the interest on that money. In addition with an older car you can save on insurance by dropping the collision coverage.

    Why sell at 80-95K mi? It really does not cost much more to keep a car running above that mileage. I think old cars kind of reach a steady-state of repair costs.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well my reasoning is that merely using the 50% repair rate vs. new car monthly payments doesn't reflect the anxiety or possible danger in driving a car that requires that much attention.

    As for the idea of dumping the car at 80K-95K, this is when many major components on a modern automobile start to fail---by "major" I mean suspension, alternator, pumps, compressors, etc. This is the benchmark for the start of failure, statistically speaking---not that this "failure" is bad--it's a natural rule of expendables---things that just wear out. Shocks, struts, battery, belts and hoses---those are all pretty tired by then....they may "work" but they won't work well.

    Some folks are more than content to nurse a car along---they don't drive much and they drive gently and so god bless 'em....but if you want a used car that approximates the abilities and reliability of a new car, at the 80K mark you either have to bail or to re-inforce this used car with some serious maintenance and parts upgrades.

    Many's the time I meet someone (in the appraisal business) who insists their old car has been "great" and trouble-free, and many's the time I drive it only to find quite a few serious faults that they have chosen to ignore or don't care about...I hear the suspension thumping around, a bad CV joint ("yeah but only on tight turns and I don't make tight turns!") various leaks ("oh, that, I just add a little coolant--it's fine"), dead AC ("Oh, I never use that").

    So yeah, this guy has a decent enough running car, but it's way less a car than a new one, and it's running under diminished capacity. For THAT I wouldn't pay 50% of new car payments---for THAT I'd pay maybe 25% of new car payments.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Actually I can't really imagine repairs regularly exceeding 50% of the cost of payments on a new car, anyway. Even using your relatively low payment figure of $325 per month, this would be almost $2000 per year. I'd hate to see repair costs like that year after year.

    I have found our older cars tend to average around 8-12 cents per mile to keep running This is for both maintenance and repairs. What I try to do is not put too much in at any one time. So the way I look at it is how much is it going to cost "right now" to keep the car going. My threshold is 100% of the trade in value or 50% of (private) retail value, whichever is greater...I try not to dump more that that in at one time.

    This is getting difficult with a worn out 1991 Sentra that my kid uses, since it is only worth a few hundred as a trade-in :) .

    Since we have multiple vehicles (one of which is newer) the tolerance for the problems of the older ones is greater. I can see someone who has only one car not wanting to go too far beyond, say, 100K mi.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well on a modern car out of warranty you could rack up a $2000 repair very easily. any transmission failure would easily equal that. Tires/brakes/shocks on a BMW will equal that, and it's not inconceivable for a 100K car to need all three of those within a year.

    Part of this equation depends on what level of safety and reliability you want to acheive. Driving a car 15,000 miles at .12cents a mile for repairs is $1,800 bucks. 12 car payments is $3,900. 50% of that is $1,950 a year.

    We aren't so far apart in our thinking actually.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    We aren't so far apart in our thinking actually.

    Probably not...But, I do think it is unlikely a new car will save money. Maybe if you have a BMW now and are going to buy a car for $15-20K, you would come out ahead, though. Even if you spend $2000 or 3000 in one year, don't you think it is unlikely that you would have costs like that again the following year.

    I drive a lot less than 15,000 miles per year...so when I think of the cost per mile it is more like $600-1000 per year. So how many miles you drive would also be a factor.

    Also, it would have to be a pretty long loan or pretty cheap car to get a payment of $325, wouldn't it?

    Coincidentally, my Nissan, that I mentioned, exceeded my criteria just yesterday. Fixed exhaust leaks for $70 and when I got home noticed a wheel was not where it should be and it needs a control arm...which is $200-300 :( .
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Ah well now I never said (or meant to say) that a new car will save you money....only that sometimes for the EXTRA price per month you pay for a new car, you get a whole lot in the way of reliability and a relief of anxiety---especially if your job/family depends on a car that isn't always breaking down.

    I actually came out about even on trading a used car in for a new car....the used one was more of an exotic european car that gobbled gas...so between the savings on repairs every month and doubling the gas mileage AND a lower insurance rate, my monthly costs for used vs. new were just about dead even.

    But that case might not apply to everyone of course.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Aha, so what we had here was a failure to communicate...

    Because that was how I (mis)interpreted your initial comment that "...to be hard-nosed about it, what you do is compare your monthly repair costs to a replacement car and its monthly payments." followed by your 50% figure.

    As you point out trading down would be an exception to the old car almost always being cheaper. If you go from, say, a used Porsche to a new Kia, you'll probably save money :D .
  • missphilly30missphilly30 Member Posts: 5
    I just wanted to let you all know about an enormous problem I had recently when dealing with Pep Boys. Hopefully this will prevent others from getting ripped off.

    I have a 1998 Subaru Forester with 154,000 miles on her. Aside from regular oil changes and fluid checks, I have never done much maintenance on the vehicle (not even a tune-up). **Please don't yell! Money is tight and a single girl can't trust a mechanic. Read on for proof!**

    So I'm overdue for an oil change when I get a coupon in the mail from Pep Boys. So I make an appointment for their 'Winter Maintenance Package' which consists of an oil change, tire rotation, new wiper blades, and a radiator drain-flush-fill for $65. I drop off my car in the morning and I call after work to see if it is ready. The KID on the phone says, "Yes, but we have a problem. Your car didn't pass the pressure test and we found a cracked head gasket. If you want us to fix it, it will be about $800-$1000." HUH?! My car did not have a problem with overheating or with holding coolant. I immediately picked up my car and drove it home, which is less than a mile away.

    The next morning I drive my car to work - less than three miles - and my thermostat gauge is all the way up to the red. I have no heat and my car is steaming under the hood. I managed to get to work and when I opened my radiator I find that it is bone dry. I fill the radiator with antifreeze and let the car run for 15 minutes to watch what happens. No leaks - not so much as a drip! - and my thermostat is working just fine. After seeing this, I decide it might be a good idea to get a second opinion so I stopped at a Mom & Pop garage around the corner. They charged me $40 to tell me that the head gasket was fine and they couldn't see a problem.

    No wonder my car didn't pass the pressure test! Those morons didn't fill the radiator with coolant after flushing it! I called Pep Boys and told the manager what happened. He insisted that the coolant was put in and stood behind their original diagnosis that I had a cracked head gasket. They refused to refund my money. I will NEVER go to Pep Boys again, not even to buy an air freshener. BTW, this was in Bensalem,PA - just outside of Philadelphia.
  • 944s944s Member Posts: 42
    damn missphilly that sucks!!!! thats why its always better to do all those simple things yourself, that way you know you did it right and with the best quality materials available. and it will make you prowd of yourself too... :shades:
  • meg7meg7 Member Posts: 7
    We have a 97 Avalon; we're the original owners. Car has 80,000 miles. Some dings.

    Mechanically we've had a recent problem with the power steering system. We bought a new pump, pulley, hose, etc., to the tune of about $800.

    Car continues to have a leak and now the Toyota dealer says it's the rack and pinion--which they couldn't tell was leaking because of the other leaks. That will run $700. (They're supposedly cutting us a $200 break on the labor; they're using a re-manufactured R&P, if I got that right.)

    They're also talking about valve cover gaskets ($471), timing belt and seals (can't tell how much), possible water pump. You get the idea.

    I'm upset that we did all the p/s repairs when they might not have been necessary. And if we knew then about all these other problems, we might have bailed then. We only did the repairs then because the car has been fine until now.

    I don't really know this dealer. Are we getting taken advantage of? Is it worth repairing? What can I say to negotiate and get them to lower their charges? I have not yet spoken to the supervisor.

    Thanks for any advice.
  • missphilly30missphilly30 Member Posts: 5
    I would love to be able to do these things myself. The problem is that I don't know how to fix cars! I moved to the Philadelphia area almost 8 years ago and I still haven't met anyone who does their own car repairs. Back home (in Ohio) EVERYONE knows how to fix a car, and most times they'll do it for the cost of parts and a 12 pack of beer!
  • 944s944s Member Posts: 42
    hahahaha well hook it up w/a 12 pack of keystone and i'll change ur oil! LOL JK.
    well its never too late to learn pick up a haynes repair manual and theres detailed instructions and pictures. and it aint that hard,, a year ago i knew nothing and now I do all of my and my GF's tune ups.
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    This is where I write a nice little certified letter to Pep Boys National Headquarters addressed to the President. I attach a copy of your receipt from the Mom & Pop garage - and if possible, include a note from the mechanic saying that the head gasket is fine.

    I'd tell them that Sears spent $20 Million in California in the 1990's Sears Settles for $20Mbecause of jerks like their manager, and I'd attach a copy of that article and a few like the one below. You can find plenty.
    New Jersey Sues Sears Roebuck Over Alleged Fraudulent Practices at Auto Repair Centers

    I'd also CC your State Attorney General on a complaint form.
  • bolivarbolivar Member Posts: 2,316
    I agree.

    Also, send a copy of the receipt where you bought the antifreeze. I hope you kept this, or put it on a credit card so they can give you a copy.

    Some detailed, firm 'I'm not going to take this', should get ALL your money refunded from Pep Boys.

    Make the complaint to your local Better Business Bureau, and your state Attorney General's Consumer Protection department.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I realize the poster is on a tight budget but some of those chains are the very worst places to take a car.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Obviously, the head gasket leaked so badly that all the coolant leaked out in the 4 miles that you drove ;):D .
  • bigfurbigfur Member Posts: 649
    Thinking next time id take the car to the mom and pop shop again!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,754
    only 80k miles? If you like the car, I would definitely fix it. Where else are you going to get a '97 Avalon with 80k miles for $1200?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    Any further developments?
  • ahoronahoron Member Posts: 30
    Get a second opinion. Ask friends, family, and co-workers where they take their cars. If all that is needed okay. Then you will know, if not then you just saved alot of money. I have found often times when you think you're getting a break you are getting taken advantage of. Why would they give you a $200 break on labor? Sounds like they just started throwing parts at your car!
  • wlbrown9wlbrown9 Member Posts: 867
    Well, Toyata might recommend timing belt replacement at a certain mileage (usual range is 60K - 90K miles). And while you are in there, you are already paying most of the labor to replace the water pump...but unless you are having trouble with either of these, you don't have to change them. I have an Isuzu Trooper (2000 model). Recommended timing belt replacement is 90K miles. I just had it done at 112,000. I declined the water pump since I might only keep it another year, more or less. Timing belt was $368 at independent shop, water pump would have added about $200..not cheap, but way less than the $850 the Chevy/Isuzu dealer quoted for both.

    It sounds as if they may be recommending repairs they would like to sell you rather that ones you really need. Are the valve covers leaking? Would simply tightening the bolts cure that problem?
  • missphilly30missphilly30 Member Posts: 5
    I called the Pep Boys corporate office and spoke to a woman named Virginia about my complaint. She seemed sympathetic when she took down my contact information and told me that someone would be contacting me about my problem. This was four days ago and still no call. My next step is to mail copies of the Pep Boys bill, the bill from my second-opinion, and my complaint letter. I am also going to contact my attorney on Monday just to see if I can fight this without more cost to me.

    On a side note, I took my car back to the independent garage where I got the second opinion because I needed to have state inspection and emissions and my check engine light has been on. Interestingly enough, they informed me that I had two error codes associated with the cooling system - possibly from my Pep Boys incident. I will also include this information in my complaint letter to Pep Boys. But the best part about all of this? The independent garage (Alexander's in Bensalem) checked my cooling system AGAIN and found no serious damage. They were able to reset everything and my car passed emissions with no problems and with NO extra costs for me!
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    Please keep us posted.
  • sky23213sky23213 Member Posts: 300
    A true horror story... the silver lining, it was only 85.00. Still some amount for a single person on a budget.
    If you paid with a credit card, after the PB Mgr blew you off, I would've started with disputing the charge with your credit card company. The issuers are much more inclined to side with the card holder, especially with a good case like yours (well backed up with paperwork). Might work, might not; there's also a good chance some idiot in the office will not know what to do with a charge-back or will miss the deadline.
    I'd think an attorney is not worth it in this case, even if they agree to take it on a contingency basis (Bob? ... Bob? Bob?).
    We're probably in different tax brackets, so 85.00 is not really an issue, and I've stopped frequenting the chains, but would have definitely gone to battle because by that time I would have been pretty angry, and, yes, it is about the money! :mad: I did it couple of year ago for 69.95 with a major medical outfit.
    So, just another thought, and good luck.
  • gtorickgtorick Member Posts: 3
    Service station(exxon) pumped a whole bunch of water into my gas tank. I didn't get 5 miles down the road before it died. Mechanic says check engine light says fuel pump failure and replacement will be $965.00 total. My question is will water ruin the fuel pump so quickly like that?
    Thanks!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Seems unlikely.
  • burdawgburdawg Member Posts: 1,524
    How do you know that the water was introduced at that particular time?
    Seems unlikely to me, too.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Water has to sit in a system for a while to degrade the fuel system components.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    how was water pumped into your tank? i don't understand. was water in their underground tanks?

    i would think you'd want to go after damages with exxon. sounds like a very bizzare incident. they aren't disputing it are they?
  • gtorickgtorick Member Posts: 3
    Yes...there must have been water in their tanks. Mechanic said he wound up with two gallons of water when he drained the tank. I have contacted EXXON, they took a report, i have faxed documentation....now we'll see.In an effort to be fair to EXXON i will post positive as well as negative results.Stay tuned.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    you might want to ask the guy that posted this message in another forum to get a hauler's perspective.
    gashauler, "Fuel and Oil Additives" #888, 9 Feb 2007 9:08 am

    if there was water in the tank, it might be a problem the station is having with the integrity of their storage system following a heavy rain or something.

    good luck to you. tell us how you do.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    One easy way to test everyone's credibility here is to see if cars were stranded going out of the station. That much water in underground tanks would have immobolized dozens of automobiles, not just yours.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    That just brought back a painful memory.

    Years ago, I was a manager for a LARGE Sears Auto Center. We had a gas station and we sold a LOT of gas.

    One day, a water pipe broke under the ground and it dumped a lot of water into one of our tanks.

    When I got my first call from an irate person, I didn't believe him. Before I could get off the phone with him, I had two more incoming calls!

    I ran out to the pumps and pulled the emergancy shut off switch.

    Oh, what a mess I had on my hands...towing bills, fuel system flushes, carb rebuilds. I'm sure we paid for a lot of things the water didn't affect, but we paid. Oh, did we pay! I signed refund slips for a month afterwards. As I recall, I think about 40 cars were affected.
  • 2puppies2puppies Member Posts: 1
    I've been looking at buying an extended warranty for a 2004 Toyota RAV4. Even though the Toyota website was quoting $1200, the local dealers all wanted at least $1450 for the warranty. I called Toyota and they said they don't sell them over the phone; only the dealers sell them - but the Toyota rep referred me to a couple of on-line dealers. The first one was $800 for the 7-year, 75,000 mile warranty, and the second was $650. Imagine that - just
    by learning that I saved $800! And it's the exact same warranty - a platinum warranty issued through Toyota.

    I'm in Phoenix, Arizona, but the dealer I worked with was Bernardi Toyota in Massachusetts. It was simple and painless and I purchased it online. Follow-up with the Business Manager was great! I would encourage everyone to check out these prices before purchasing an extended warranty.
  • john_doe_wnyjohn_doe_wny Member Posts: 28
    I'll be looking for about a 5 year old 60,000 mile reliable car in good condition later this year from a dealer but I'm not sure about an extented warranty. I'm sure their not going to be cheap on a 5 year old car, so if anyone has any thoughts on getting a warranty or not please let me know. I'm not sure what is worse paying for a warrenty and not needing it or not paying for a warrenty and needing it. Thanks
  • jazi76jazi76 Member Posts: 4
    I own a 2002 Corolla "S" that has 39,300 miles. I bought the car from Carmx last year.

    In August, the engine broke and was replaced under warranty at no charge to me in Birmingham, AL at about 35,000 miles. I moved to NY and took it to a dealership in November for an 5,000 mile maintenance. I informed them that I got a new engine. The dealership told me that I had to flush my engine because it's dirty as well as a coolant. I called the Toyota dealership In Birmingham and they told me there was no need for a maintenance and the engine & coolant flush was done when the new engine was replaced.

    They give me a new engine but kept the old valves that were in good condition. If they were in old condition they replaced it. So my question is, do I need an engine or coolant flushed?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm not sure you can even get an extended warranty on a car that old....certainly not a CPO type warranty.

    I think with a car this old you'd be better off a) having it thoroughly gone over by an indepedent shop and b) setting aside repair money each month in a private account as opposed to spending that money all at once on an extended warranty.
  • 0patience0patience Member Posts: 1,712
    The dealership told me that I had to flush my engine because it's dirty as well as a coolant.
    Well, how does the coolant look to you?
    Did you look at it? Is it discolored?
    Depending on which coolant you have, it should either be fairly bright green, bright pink, bright orange or red.
    If it has a brownish tinge to it, then it may need to be replaced.

    As for the engine flush.........
    Are they talking flushing the oil??
    If they are, then I suggest you take the vehicle to a real mechanic and stay as far away from that dealer as you can.

    Honestly, I would get a second opinion.
    At 35,000 miles, there is no reason your vehicle should need the engine flushed and coolant replaced, unless the earlier engine was replaced from a head gasket failure??

    You aren't telling us the whole story, which we need to be able to help you determine if the coolant needs to be replaced.
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