That is the entire story. The dealership said the engine was dirty but did not mention anything about the engine oil.
Unfortunately, I am clueless about cars so I couln't tell you the color of the coolant because I wouldn't know where the coolant is located on a car. :confuse:
At 5000 mi on the replacement engine, you need the engine oil and engine oil filter changed. Doubtful you need the coolant flushed and replaced. BTW, they don't flush the engine oil.
You need to read your owner's manual; you should become familiar with the various resevoirs holding fluids in the engine compartment and when / how to check levels.
You recognize you're clueless about cars, but your instincts are good. You know what you need to do to minimize being ripped off. :shades:
That isn't entirely correct. Engine oil flushes are common practice, even though they are a waste of money. This is a service bulletin regarding engine oil flushing.
File In Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System Bulletin No.: 02-06-01-028 Date: August, 2002 INFORMATION Subject: Engine Crankcase Flush
Models: 2003 and Prior All GM Cars and Trucks 2003 HUMMER H2 2003 and Prior Isuzu Light and Medium Duty Trucks with Gasoline Engines
General Motors is aware that some companies are marketing tools and equipment to support engine crankcase flush procedures. GM does NOT endorse or recommend crankcase flushing for any of its gasoline engines. Analysis of some of the materials used for crankcase flushing procedures indicate incompatibility with GM engine components and the potential for damage to some engine seals and bearings. Damage to engine components resulting from crankcase flushing procedures is not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.
Check engine light is on, mechanic says catalytic converter is failing on my 2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport 4.0 LT. He says there are three of them on the vehicle and one is bad. He also says that it may cost from $800.00 to $2000.00! He says there are no aftermarket converters manufactured, yet I have found at least a half dozen places selling them for an average of $150.00. Who is lying, the mechanic or the companies selling the aftermarket converters?
welll... i wouldn't necessarily go calling anyone a liar. truth is, no aftermarket companies your mechanice DEALS WITH sells them. (at least, that's what i would assume)
i was told the same thing on my mazda. i went online and bought one of the cheap aftermarket deals and put it on myself for ALOT less money.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Before you do anything. Check your warranty on emissions. A lot of manufacturers have a 7 year warranty on emissions. So IF you cat is bad, it may be covered under emissions warranty. Check your warranty information, it should show a separate emissions warranty. If you cannot find that information, let me know and I will get it from Chrysler for you. I'll try and remember to double check tomorrow.
Now, that being said.......... What indication does he have that the cat is bad? How does it run? Is the only problem that the check engine light is on? Does it run rough, lack power? If the CEL is the only problem, then the cat is NOT the problem.
50 state emission vehicles incorporate two mini catalytic converters located after the exhaust manifolds and before the inline underbody catalytic converter. The mini catalytic converters are only serviceable with the exhaust pipe.
The mini converters are not usually the ones that fail and the factory rear converter is listed from the OEM (dealer) at around $350, part number 52101116AC. And yes, there are aftermarket units available. NAPA lists one for that vehicle, but I strongly recommend using OEM. They are a direct replacement and are designed for your vehicle.
If you can supply us with the trouble codes that were retrieved, we can tell you what it means and what to check.
I have a 1993 Toyota Camry. This is an old clunker handed down to me from someone. So far I have ended up spending about 6000 dollars on the car since I purchased it in Dec 2005. I have replaced the transmission and the timing belt. The tires, the wiper blades and finally the engine.
The car has failed inspection this year. The mechanic has suggested me to replace all the four brake calipers. The price quoted on the calipers is around 220 dollars a piece + a labor charge. The invoice price is around 1200 dollars.
Is this the right price for replacing the brake calipers?
If you have a brake question click the browse by topic(brakes)arrow in the left hand column. Then click brakes where you will be presented many discussions on brakes. Try "Brakes.... Stop here".
You can always get an extended warranty at any time. That being said, if you do decide to get an extended warranty, then be very careful what one you go with. Read the fine print very carefully.
I suggest you take a look at the manufacturer's extended warranty and see what it covers. A lot of aftermarket warranties do not cover a lot of things. Or when they do cover them, they will have a lot of stipulations on how they cover them. There are instances where when a transmission has failed, the warranty company has actually obtained a USED transmission and had it istalled. To me, that is not acceptable.
Bottom line, read the warranty information carefully. If you have questions regarding it, don't be afraid to ask for clarification. If they cannot clarify it for you, then walk away.
Probably not. You have to remember these are really just insurance policies, with the insurer betting on the actuarial tables that the cost of their premiums will exceed the cost of your repairs. If they're betting that, why don't you bet the same?
Hi - my 1992 Lexus sc400 broke down with broken timing belt & water pump. Had it towed and shop convinced me to let them repair - I didn't want to re-tow to dealership so I agreed. They gave me 3 quotes:
1. they explained they could fix the water pump and timing belt for $1000, but that it was likely there would be engine damage discovered. He said if he did just the pump and belt and along the way found engine damage, the whole job would cost $3500. But he said I could elect to replace the engine all at once instead (with a used one - warrantied), for $500 less than that ($3000); He gave me the choice, and I agreed on the engine job for the quoted $3000. Six weeks later, I have a bill for $4000 and no one EVER called to say the cost was going up.
2. He also told me the engine he was putting in for me had 60,000 miles; the bill indicates it has 70,000 miles; no one ever told me of this either, until I got the bill.
3. I was told my car would be repaired between a few days to a week. It ended up being many weeks. They were not very pleasant when I called - I had been calling regularly over the course of those weeks and no one ever reached out to me to say what the timeframe was turning into. If only someone could have communicated the status of things to me, I could have planned my life accordingly. When at the end I understandably expressed some frustration, it was returned with rather aggressive treatment.
But most importantly, as mentioned above I was never warned that there was going to be a cost increase. Especially by such an amount! This car is old, and if I knew it was going to cost me more than the $3000, I may not have chosen to have them continue the additional work. At least I would have had the choice.
Sidenote: at one point I went in person to check on their progress and noticed damage on the hood; I pointed it out and they said they'd have it fixed at the body shop. Also, at one point they told me during the repair the oil pan cracked and they had to get a new one.
I don't think they were equipped to do this job and that's why it took so long and why they're now trying to make up money; I am further spooked by the prospect of paying to get my car back and having problems with it due to a faulty job, down the road. The unfortunate thing is, I never asked for the original quote in writing - so I have nothing in writing to prove what they told me. I have a letter ready to drop off to the owner stating why I don't want to pay $1000 over the quote... I did not say anything about small claims court but I cc-ed an attorney. Any advice for me? Am I doing the right thing? I haven't dropped it off yet. I am stressing badly over all of this.
You're kinda up the creek without any type of estimate or contract sondra. It's your word against theirs.
I would definitely confront the owner, in a calm and non-threatening manner, and ask that they honor the $3,000 quote they gave you. They may try to split the difference with you... up to you on if you want to negotiate a settlement or not. If not satisfied, I would tell the owner you would be contacting the BBB and an attorney. Though I really don't think hiring a attorney would help. Unless, it's just to write a letter to persuade the owner into your line of thinking.
I would also have your dealership, or a trusted mechanic, look at the car to make sure they did the work they claimed. Have the shop itemize all the repair work and part numbers on your receipt.
Well, I wouldn't have the dealerships mechanic check it out while it's at the service station. Try to get the price worked out, then just drive it to the dealership... or have someone who knows about cars take a look. Crawl under the car and check to see if the oil pan has been replaced and isn't leaking around the gaskets. It should be fairly obvious if it has a new engine, though the dealership could give it a good once over to check if it was properly installed.
If repairs not made or improperly made, then you can get an estimate from the dealership and use as leverage in getting reimbursement from service station.
Given the poor way this service station has conducted it's business, I'd want to make sure I'm getting my moneys worth and not being cheated. Good luck!
All good suggestions but DON'T let anyone else work on this car (they can look at it of course) until this is resolves. If someone else turns a wrench on this car, you've let the original shop off the hook if anything goes wrong.
Also, don't let this drag on too long--that shop has a legal right to lien sale your car for the charges. Of course you have a legal right to protest the lien sale and prevent it. But they can harass you big time.
Best case scenario? There's no splendid outcome here, but the best case scenario I can think of is: a) you work out a compromise price with them; b) you test drive the car thoroughly before paying them; and c) sell it immediately if it's running well.
There were problems from the get-go here, and certainly mostly not your fault. For one thing, engine damage could have been EASILY determined prior to starting any work! It puzzles me why this was not done.
engine damage could have been easily determined prior to starting any work!
My initial thought was a timing chain break was the cause of the engine damage. I was assuming this particular Lexus engine would sustain damage with a timing chain break.
Good ideas to do a thorough test drive as you suggested. Any hesitation, knocking, engine dieing etc. will certainly be cause for alarm... and withholding of payment. Of course they can always say the repairs were good, you just need a new .....(fill in the blank)
Would really be beneficial if Sondra could take someone who knows about cars with her. I've heard a lot of wild crazy stories.
If this is a reputable place ( sounds questionable) and they honor their warranty(6 months?) I would hold onto it for about 4-5 months to see how it's doing. If continues to have problems sell, if not keep.
Yeah but think about it..if you end up "forcing" a settlement and then give them the car back to work on, what do you think you're going to get?
There are two sides to every story and in this case maybe 3 or 4 sides....it may never get sorted out to anyone's satisfaction because the rules are shifting all the time it seems.
Bottom line is the owner NEEDS to have a running car to come out anywhere near whole on this. Hiring an attorney and going to court on a suit this small makes no sense.
I didn't say anything about "forcing" a settlement. I stated initialy she should try to reason with the owner, and possibly settle if in her best interst. If a mutual agreement is made, then I see no problem in bringing the car back for warranty work that has already been paid for.
Now if the owner refuses to budge, and it starts to get a little ugly... then of course I wouldn't want to bring the car back.
Well she's got an attorney involved, so there's "force". But no, I didn't mean to imply you were suggesting anything "brutal" here. Maybe we should call it 'pressure' or better yet "encouragement to do the right thing"?
Anyway...if she can good a good running car out of it for $3,500 bucks, I'd take the car and run with it just to be out of this mess. Whether it "needed" the new/used engine is basically unprovable at this point unless you can secure the old block for examination...now THAT would be interesting!
Well she's got an attorney involved, so there's "force".
No there isn't. Unless the attorney actual does something there's no "force" being exerted on the service station owner, the attorney was merely contacted (message?). The letter about small claims court unmailed. At this point there is just customer to owner dialogue.
That's right, unless the attorney has contacted the garage or the car owner told the garage that she's contacted an attorney, then the situation hasn't escalated.
isellhondas, I just did a search and I apparently you're right. My model year was made with a non-interference engine. I didn't even know there was such a thing. Obviously, I've been had. I just have to try and forget this awful experience and move on.
Having considered this new evidence, you might have the basis for a GREAT Small Claims Court lawsuit. I don't know the $$$ limits for Small Claims in your area but you should check.
Claiming engine damage on a non-interference fit engine is very very suspicious.....are they crooks or are they just incompetent? (no jail time for incompetence in America, unfortunately).
Small Claims isn't very expensive and you might get back enough money to have the car fixed properly (somewhere ELSE)...I think you should sue for the difference between a mere timing belt replacement and what they charged you for the entire engine replacement.
First thing I'd do is go there and ask to see your old engine...if it's "gone" I would be extremely suspicious and ask where the used engine came from. If they "can't remember' go right to Small Claims.
My point is that if you in fact got a good used engine, well you did get something for your money...then it becomes a dispute over whether you needed it or not (this is why you need to see the old engine).
But if there's no old engine, it becomes a dispute whether you got totally ripped....in which case you should sue for the entire amount you paid.
If you have the time, Small Claims might be worth a shot but you have to have your ducks in a line here, and document all conversations, keep all receipts and definitely definitely ask to see the old engine. You might go with someone who knows what to look for.
Mr. Shiftright - I don't know... for one thing, the chances that they'll say they still have my old engine is slim - wouldn't that be necessary for evidence? Also, they can still claim that there was engine damage even if the engine was supposedly a non-interference engine. I just called Lexus and they said there could still be some damage on the engine - but not 'necessarily' an amount that would require the replacement of the entire engine - perhaps just parts.
Okay let's give them (the garage) the benefit of every doubt.
They don't have the engine? Where is it? Who took it?
And where did they buy the used engine?
No answers to those simple questions? Then I'd get very suspicious.
I know plenty of repair shops and they have services that pick up old engine blocks and they have regular suppliers for used engines.
A simple phone call: "Did X Garage buy a used Lexus engine from you? When?" (you don't have to ask the price).
OR
"Did you pick up a Lexus engine block from these guys? When? Can I see it?"
Sure, there could be a cracked timing case cover where the belt/chain broke, or it could need tensioners, etc., but a whole used engine?
How convenient.
You have to admit, it would be very easy to hide that there is no used engine in there. How would anyone know? And why wouldn't a repair shop just do a new chain/belt and cover if necessary?
Pulling and installing used engines is a lot of work, time-wise. They would have made more $$$ per hour just repairing the old engine, easily.
The used engine they put in came from a (their words) reputable place that warrantied the engine for 6 months - and they do show a VIN number for it on my bill.
I'm going to have this whole job looked at by Lexus once I get the car back.
I will be calling about my old engine to see if I can get it too. Couldn't they just take a hammer and damage it themselves though, if they wanted to?
If you thought someone cheated you out of 3 grand, would you move on and forget about it?
I agree with shifty, spend some time asking some questions and making some phone calls. It may pay $$$ off.
Sondra asked where they got the engine and they replied, "a reputable place"... without giving the business name? Come on... sounds as if they're hiding something to me. I'd push for the name and more.
I plan to call Monday (actually having a male friend help me - it seems to help, anyway) with all these questions. One thing's for sure, I don't know what I'd do without your guys help here. I'm so grateful for all of your advice!!!
Yes, our host is right. This should be taken to small claims court. I have a feeling that the engine in the car now is the original engine.
Just bring a statement from the Lexus Service Manager stating it's a non interference engine.
If that engine came out of a junkyard there COULD be a problem since I know a lot of those places sell a lot of items under the table. a lot of money can be hidden in a wrecking yard!
Ok, just wondering if this is fair. My floorboards aren't blowing, and they told me the door needs to be replaced, costing $18 for the part. Then they said it would cost around $460 to change it out. The reason being they have to take apart the whole front consel, which they estimate as a 6 hour job. Does this sound about right? I'm a little frustrated, and need it repaired since last winter my toes were almost frozen while driving. Thanks for any comments!
Hello all, I was hoping someone could let me know if this repair estimate seems fair - I know nothing about cars and always worry about being ripped off when I am ignorant about the subject matter!
Our car failed an emissions test in CT a week ago. Unfortunately, my husband gave the paperwork to the repair shop without making a copy, so I don't know what codes failed. The following is what we received back as a repair estimate:
Labor Diagnose issue - 2 hrs - $179 Perform tune-up - 2.5 hrs - $223.75 Replace fuel filter - .5 hrs - $44.75 Perform injector service - 1 hr - $89.50 Replace battery (that died while they were looking at it?!) - .5 hrs - $44.75 Perform throttle body service - 1 hr - $89.50 Replace knock sensor - 1 hr - $89.50
Parts Battery - $89.92 Fuel filter - $27.85 Air filter - $8.12 Ignition wire set - $107.82 Spark plugs (4) - $13.76 Knock sensor - $129.07 Fuel injection service kit - $47.00
Total Labor - $760.75 Total Parts - $423.54 Shop supplies - $41.84 Tax - $73.57 Grand total - $1299.70
Additionally, the mechanic said we would need new brakes soon (last done Jan 05 - 56k miles ago) which was not included in the repair estimate.
Also, the mechanic made no mention of needing a catalytic converter repair, which our regular shop said was on it's way out. I'm confused as to why this shop wouldn't mention it, unless the other shop thought the issue was the catalytic converter but the repairs listed above are all that are really needed?
Also, I've been trying to research a little more about the repairs, and I've seen it mentioned that tune-ups in the traditional sense aren't done any longer. If that's the case, what would be included in the tune-up listed above? (I plan on asking the shop tomorrow when they open). Finally, I am also concerned that our regular repair shop just had us replace 2 serpentine belts again, when we just had it done 15 months ago (about 22k miles ago). Does that sound odd? From what I'm reading, these should last 5 yrs or 50k miles. Of course, the parts and labor from the shop are only warrantied at 90 days/4k miles.
I appreciate any insight you can give me into the above. If it helps any, our car has just over 172k miles on it, and we can't afford another car right now (just bought a new one to replace my old one in Oct) so I want to do what is needed to keep it running well, while not breaking the bank!
Well, on one side of the coin you have a lot of miles, and any or all of the services they call out could be needed. On the other side, this is a shotgun approach to your problem with the emissions test failure. I'd get another opinion. Tune ups are still done, but typically at long intervals, 100K miles or so. Shops love to change serpentine belts, like they used to regular fan belts. You should learn to inspect them yourself for missing ribs, severe cracks, etc. That way you'll know that it really needs to be done. Quite often they get changed before they really need it.
I agree. This shop is just guessing with your checkbook. Go to another shop that can isolate and fix what is necessary.
I feel the bill is "padded" in places, like "injector service" and 1/2 hour to replace a battery??? And $41 in shop supplies...what's that, lunch for the crew? C'mon.....
Thanks for your replies. We picked up the car this morning to get another opinion. The guy was really nice about it, which was good. We just told him that it was a lot of money and we wanted a second opinion. We also asked if that was the best price he could do, and he did say he'd take 10% off. So we paid $200 for the diagnostics and took it to another place that charges about $100 for the diagnostics and we'll see what he has to say.
The funny thing is, the second shop says they like to take it to get the emissions tested after they work on it to ensure it passes. For the free retest, they have to take it back to the first shop. That should be interesting.
Any of the reasonably priced OBD2 testers (which read the error codes of the vehicles computer), also will indicate whether it passes inspection. So this is not very hard or a big deal for them to do at all.
True but it's still just a "pad". I hate this "shop supplies" charge---they should just charge you what it takes to fix the car....a 7% across the board levy is just a hidden tax rendered by a private tax collector. It's almost medieval, like the King's vassals taxing the peasant's for the number of chickens they own---LOL!
Where's Robin Hood when we REALLY need him with his black arrows?
I'd sure install batteries all day long for $41 apiece. Where do I sign up for this job?
I agree on the shop charge, instead of adding 7% to the labor, they could just set the labor rate 7% higher. Just pointing out it is a common practice that we are all stuck with.
Another one is the disposal fee on an oil change...they itemize it rather than just saying the oil change is 21.99 instead of 19.99. As if you can potentially get an oil change and not have the fee, in some cases. They would probably still add it on anyway, even if a customer came in with no oil in the crankcase.
I think I have paid $0 and $15 for battery installation. Other times I did it myself. The battery itself also seems pretty pricey at $90, not sure what kind of battery gets up to that price, I've never paid over $75 and that one was from a dealer.
Comments
Unfortunately, I am clueless about cars so I couln't tell you the color of the coolant because I wouldn't know where the coolant is located on a car.
You need to read your owner's manual; you should become familiar with the various resevoirs holding fluids in the engine compartment and when / how to check levels.
You recognize you're clueless about cars, but your instincts are good. You know what you need to do to minimize being ripped off. :shades:
That isn't entirely correct. Engine oil flushes are common practice, even though they are a waste of money.
This is a service bulletin regarding engine oil flushing.
File In Section: 06 - Engine/Propulsion System
Bulletin No.: 02-06-01-028
Date: August, 2002
INFORMATION
Subject:
Engine Crankcase Flush
Models:
2003 and Prior All GM Cars and Trucks
2003 HUMMER H2
2003 and Prior Isuzu Light and Medium Duty Trucks with Gasoline Engines
General Motors is aware that some companies are marketing tools and equipment to support engine crankcase flush procedures. GM does NOT endorse or recommend crankcase flushing for any of its gasoline engines. Analysis of some of the materials used for crankcase flushing procedures indicate incompatibility with GM engine components and the potential for damage to some engine seals and bearings. Damage to engine components resulting from crankcase flushing procedures is not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.
He also says that it may cost from $800.00 to $2000.00! He says there are no aftermarket converters manufactured, yet I have found at least a half dozen places selling them for an average of $150.00. Who is lying, the mechanic or the companies selling the aftermarket converters?
i was told the same thing on my mazda. i went online and bought one of the cheap aftermarket deals and put it on myself for ALOT less money.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
A lot of manufacturers have a 7 year warranty on emissions.
So IF you cat is bad, it may be covered under emissions warranty.
Check your warranty information, it should show a separate emissions warranty. If you cannot find that information, let me know and I will get it from Chrysler for you.
I'll try and remember to double check tomorrow.
Now, that being said..........
What indication does he have that the cat is bad?
How does it run?
Is the only problem that the check engine light is on?
Does it run rough, lack power?
If the CEL is the only problem, then the cat is NOT the problem.
50 state emission vehicles incorporate two mini catalytic converters located after the exhaust manifolds and before the inline underbody catalytic converter. The mini catalytic converters are only serviceable with the exhaust pipe.
The mini converters are not usually the ones that fail and the factory rear converter is listed from the OEM (dealer) at around $350, part number 52101116AC.
And yes, there are aftermarket units available.
NAPA lists one for that vehicle, but I strongly recommend using OEM. They are a direct replacement and are designed for your vehicle.
If you can supply us with the trouble codes that were retrieved, we can tell you what it means and what to check.
The car has failed inspection this year. The mechanic has suggested me to replace all the four brake calipers. The price quoted on the calipers is around 220 dollars a piece + a labor charge. The invoice price is around 1200 dollars.
Is this the right price for replacing the brake calipers?
That being said, if you do decide to get an extended warranty, then be very careful what one you go with.
Read the fine print very carefully.
I suggest you take a look at the manufacturer's extended warranty and see what it covers.
A lot of aftermarket warranties do not cover a lot of things. Or when they do cover them, they will have a lot of stipulations on how they cover them.
There are instances where when a transmission has failed, the warranty company has actually obtained a USED transmission and had it istalled. To me, that is not acceptable.
Bottom line, read the warranty information carefully. If you have questions regarding it, don't be afraid to ask for clarification. If they cannot clarify it for you, then walk away.
1. they explained they could fix the water pump and timing belt for $1000, but that it was likely there would be engine damage discovered. He said if he did just the pump and belt and along the way found engine damage, the whole job would cost $3500. But he said I could elect to replace the engine all at once instead (with a used one - warrantied), for $500 less than that ($3000); He gave me the choice, and I agreed on the engine job for the quoted $3000. Six weeks later, I have a bill for $4000 and no one EVER called to say the cost was going up.
2. He also told me the engine he was putting in for me had 60,000 miles; the bill indicates it has 70,000 miles; no one ever told me of this either, until I got the bill.
3. I was told my car would be repaired between a few days to a week. It ended up being many weeks. They were not very pleasant when I called - I had been calling regularly over the course of those weeks and no one ever reached out to me to say what the timeframe was turning into. If only someone could have communicated the status of things to me, I could have planned my life accordingly. When at the end I understandably expressed some frustration, it was returned with rather aggressive treatment.
But most importantly, as mentioned above I was never warned that there was going to be a cost increase. Especially by such an amount! This car is old, and if I knew it was going to cost me more than the $3000, I may not have chosen to have them continue the additional work. At least I would have had the choice.
Sidenote: at one point I went in person to check on their progress and noticed damage on the hood; I pointed it out and they said they'd have it fixed at the body shop. Also, at one point they told me during the repair the oil pan cracked and they had to get a new one.
I don't think they were equipped to do this job and that's why it took so long and why they're now trying to make up money; I am further spooked by the prospect of paying to get my car back and having problems with it due to a faulty job, down the road.
The unfortunate thing is, I never asked for the original quote in writing - so I have nothing in writing to prove what they told me. I have a letter ready to drop off to the owner stating why I don't want to pay $1000 over the quote... I did not say anything about small claims court but I cc-ed an attorney. Any advice for me? Am I doing the right thing? I haven't dropped it off yet. I am stressing badly over all of this.
I would definitely confront the owner, in a calm and non-threatening manner, and ask that they honor the $3,000 quote they gave you. They may try to split the difference with you... up to you on if you want to negotiate a settlement or not. If not satisfied, I would tell the owner you would be contacting the BBB and an attorney. Though I really don't think hiring a attorney would help. Unless, it's just to write a letter to persuade the owner into your line of thinking.
I would also have your dealership, or a trusted mechanic, look at the car to make sure they did the work they claimed. Have the shop itemize all the repair work and part numbers on your receipt.
How do I logistically get a mechanic from the dealership to look the car over to see if things are as claimed by the service station?
If repairs not made or improperly made, then you can get an estimate from the dealership and use as leverage in getting reimbursement from service station.
Given the poor way this service station has conducted it's business, I'd want to make sure I'm getting my moneys worth and not being cheated. Good luck!
Also, don't let this drag on too long--that shop has a legal right to lien sale your car for the charges. Of course you have a legal right to protest the lien sale and prevent it. But they can harass you big time.
Best case scenario? There's no splendid outcome here, but the best case scenario I can think of is: a) you work out a compromise price with them; b) you test drive the car thoroughly before paying them; and c) sell it immediately if it's running well.
There were problems from the get-go here, and certainly mostly not your fault. For one thing, engine damage could have been EASILY determined prior to starting any work! It puzzles me why this was not done.
My initial thought was a timing chain break was the cause of the engine damage. I was assuming this particular Lexus engine would sustain damage with a timing chain break.
Good ideas to do a thorough test drive as you suggested. Any hesitation, knocking, engine dieing etc. will certainly be cause for alarm... and withholding of payment. Of course they can always say the repairs were good, you just need a new .....(fill in the blank)
Would really be beneficial if Sondra could take someone who knows about cars with her. I've heard a lot of wild crazy stories.
If this is a reputable place ( sounds questionable) and they honor their warranty(6 months?) I would hold onto it for about 4-5 months to see how it's doing. If continues to have problems sell, if not keep.
There are two sides to every story and in this case maybe 3 or 4 sides....it may never get sorted out to anyone's satisfaction because the rules are shifting all the time it seems.
Bottom line is the owner NEEDS to have a running car to come out anywhere near whole on this. Hiring an attorney and going to court on a suit this small makes no sense.
Now if the owner refuses to budge, and it starts to get a little ugly... then of course I wouldn't want to bring the car back.
Bottom line...get it in writing.
Anyway...if she can good a good running car out of it for $3,500 bucks, I'd take the car and run with it just to be out of this mess. Whether it "needed" the new/used engine is basically unprovable at this point unless you can secure the old block for examination...now THAT would be interesting!
No there isn't. Unless the attorney actual does something there's no "force" being exerted on the service station owner, the attorney was merely contacted (message?). The letter about small claims court unmailed. At this point there is just customer to owner dialogue.
In other words, if a timing belt breaks, the engine doesn't get damaged.
Hopefully things will work out for you.
Having considered this new evidence, you might have the basis for a GREAT Small Claims Court lawsuit. I don't know the $$$ limits for Small Claims in your area but you should check.
Claiming engine damage on a non-interference fit engine is very very suspicious.....are they crooks or are they just incompetent? (no jail time for incompetence in America, unfortunately).
Small Claims isn't very expensive and you might get back enough money to have the car fixed properly (somewhere ELSE)...I think you should sue for the difference between a mere timing belt replacement and what they charged you for the entire engine replacement.
First thing I'd do is go there and ask to see your old engine...if it's "gone" I would be extremely suspicious and ask where the used engine came from. If they "can't remember' go right to Small Claims.
My point is that if you in fact got a good used engine, well you did get something for your money...then it becomes a dispute over whether you needed it or not (this is why you need to see the old engine).
But if there's no old engine, it becomes a dispute whether you got totally ripped....in which case you should sue for the entire amount you paid.
If you have the time, Small Claims might be worth a shot but you have to have your ducks in a line here, and document all conversations, keep all receipts and definitely definitely ask to see the old engine. You might go with someone who knows what to look for.
MrShiftright
They don't have the engine? Where is it? Who took it?
And where did they buy the used engine?
No answers to those simple questions? Then I'd get very suspicious.
I know plenty of repair shops and they have services that pick up old engine blocks and they have regular suppliers for used engines.
A simple phone call: "Did X Garage buy a used Lexus engine from you? When?" (you don't have to ask the price).
OR
"Did you pick up a Lexus engine block from these guys? When? Can I see it?"
Sure, there could be a cracked timing case cover where the belt/chain broke, or it could need tensioners, etc., but a whole used engine?
How convenient.
You have to admit, it would be very easy to hide that there is no used engine in there. How would anyone know? And why wouldn't a repair shop just do a new chain/belt and cover if necessary?
Pulling and installing used engines is a lot of work, time-wise. They would have made more $$$ per hour just repairing the old engine, easily.
I'm going to have this whole job looked at by Lexus once I get the car back.
I will be calling about my old engine to see if I can get it too. Couldn't they just take a hammer and damage it themselves though, if they wanted to?
Anyway, maybe they did put in the used engine for a good reason...but WHAT reason?
I agree with shifty, spend some time asking some questions and making some phone calls. It may pay $$$ off.
Sondra asked where they got the engine and they replied, "a reputable place"... without giving the business name? Come on... sounds as if they're hiding something to me. I'd push for the name and more.
Just bring a statement from the Lexus Service Manager stating it's a non interference engine.
If that engine came out of a junkyard there COULD be a problem since I know a lot of those places sell a lot of items under the table. a lot of money can be hidden in a wrecking yard!
Our car failed an emissions test in CT a week ago. Unfortunately, my husband gave the paperwork to the repair shop without making a copy, so I don't know what codes failed. The following is what we received back as a repair estimate:
Labor
Diagnose issue - 2 hrs - $179
Perform tune-up - 2.5 hrs - $223.75
Replace fuel filter - .5 hrs - $44.75
Perform injector service - 1 hr - $89.50
Replace battery (that died while they were looking at it?!) - .5 hrs - $44.75
Perform throttle body service - 1 hr - $89.50
Replace knock sensor - 1 hr - $89.50
Parts
Battery - $89.92
Fuel filter - $27.85
Air filter - $8.12
Ignition wire set - $107.82
Spark plugs (4) - $13.76
Knock sensor - $129.07
Fuel injection service kit - $47.00
Total Labor - $760.75
Total Parts - $423.54
Shop supplies - $41.84
Tax - $73.57
Grand total - $1299.70
Additionally, the mechanic said we would need new brakes soon (last done Jan 05 - 56k miles ago) which was not included in the repair estimate.
Also, the mechanic made no mention of needing a catalytic converter repair, which our regular shop said was on it's way out. I'm confused as to why this shop wouldn't mention it, unless the other shop thought the issue was the catalytic converter but the repairs listed above are all that are really needed?
Also, I've been trying to research a little more about the repairs, and I've seen it mentioned that tune-ups in the traditional sense aren't done any longer. If that's the case, what would be included in the tune-up listed above? (I plan on asking the shop tomorrow when they open). Finally, I am also concerned that our regular repair shop just had us replace 2 serpentine belts again, when we just had it done 15 months ago (about 22k miles ago). Does that sound odd? From what I'm reading, these should last 5 yrs or 50k miles. Of course, the parts and labor from the shop are only warrantied at 90 days/4k miles.
I appreciate any insight you can give me into the above. If it helps any, our car has just over 172k miles on it, and we can't afford another car right now (just bought a new one to replace my old one in Oct) so I want to do what is needed to keep it running well, while not breaking the bank!
Jenn
On the other side, this is a shotgun approach to your problem with the emissions test failure.
I'd get another opinion.
Tune ups are still done, but typically at long intervals, 100K miles or so.
Shops love to change serpentine belts, like they used to regular fan belts. You should learn to inspect them yourself for missing ribs, severe cracks, etc. That way you'll know that it really needs to be done. Quite often they get changed before they really need it.
I feel the bill is "padded" in places, like "injector service" and 1/2 hour to replace a battery??? And $41 in shop supplies...what's that, lunch for the crew? C'mon.....
Go elsewhere.
Many places charge a percentage, based on labor costs, for "shop supplies". I think at our Ford dealer it is 7% of the labor charge.
The funny thing is, the second shop says they like to take it to get the emissions tested after they work on it to ensure it passes. For the free retest, they have to take it back to the first shop. That should be interesting.
Where's Robin Hood when we REALLY need him with his black arrows?
I'd sure install batteries all day long for $41 apiece. Where do I sign up for this job?
Another one is the disposal fee on an oil change...they itemize it rather than just saying the oil change is 21.99 instead of 19.99. As if you can potentially get an oil change and not have the fee, in some cases. They would probably still add it on anyway, even if a customer came in with no oil in the crankcase.
I think I have paid $0 and $15 for battery installation. Other times I did it myself. The battery itself also seems pretty pricey at $90, not sure what kind of battery gets up to that price, I've never paid over $75 and that one was from a dealer.