Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Labor rate of the shop, quality of the brake pads (premium, OEM or economy), if the rotors need turned or replaced, what the shop's standard brake job is (some shops will require that you replace calipers to provied a warranty and yes, they can do that.) and if they charge an environmental fee (most shops do now).
Now, be aware that OEM pads have an update to prevent a groaning noise in city driving, so if they had a low speed groan on braking, you will want the updated OEM pads. If you purchase from the dealer, their system will give them the most current part number.
OEM pads are about $80, give or take.
As for labor time, depending on what has been replaced, can run from 1.0 hour to 2.8 hours.
How does the brake fluid look? Clear and clean or Dark?
If it is dark, then I would recommend thinking about replacing the calipers.
Monro was nearby and I got their estimate:
Item - Cost of Parts - Labor Cost - Installed Cost
Brake shoes - $39.99 - $75 - $114.99
Brake drums - 75.99 - 0 - 151.98 (2 of them)
Wheel cylinder - 68.99 - 89.25 - 158.24
Wheel cylinder - 68.99 - 89.25 - 158.24
Bleeding the wheel cylinders - 29.95
TOTAL : 613.40 plus tax
I paid $104 for all the parts including brake fluid and tax on everything. My mechanic charged me $89 for labor including tax. TOTAL about $193 including tax.
I find it interesting that MONRO asks $75.99 for a brake drum. I paid $18.88 for each one. I guess one has to be thankful that they do not charge labor to install them(!!) Even Honda brand drums sell for about $50 on the internet.
Just because you can go buy the drums somewhere else for less, don't condemn the place.
There are a lot of reasons why some drums are more explensive than others and remember that shops charge you a premium for parts, because they have to pay someone to usually go get the parts, stock the parts and keep track of the parts.
Not to mention the fact that $18.88 drums can hardly be considered high quality. I also know that Honda charges $73 for drums over the counter.
It always kills me when customer starts comparing junk to quality parts and then complains about the difference in prices. Of course there is a difference in price.
So let me get this straight, you have a mechanic who replaced both sides shoes, drums and wheel cylinders and bled the brakes, all for $89 labor including taxes?
Let's look at the labor for such a job.
R&R Rear brake shoes - 1.7 hours
Replace wheel cylnders (both sides), add .9
so that's about 2.6 hours, not including bleeding the brakes and any incidentals, such as brake cleaner.
So figuring that time divided by $89, is only $34/hour.
This guy out of a back yard?? :surprise:
And what kind of warranty did you get? 30 miles or 30 minutes?
Sorry, I don't buy it.
Anyway, let me try to answer your questions, comments, etc.
I used MONRO in the past. They do NOT use the highest quality parts. And I do NOT need the most expensive parts for my 19-year-old Accord with 238K+ miles on it since I will not be keeping it another 19 years.
I got the parts from a national chain parts store. I have $18.88 rotors and pads from the same store on this car that I installed over 4 years and 40K miles ago. They performed great so far. This is not a race car. It is a work car. Actually, these rotors and pads outperformed the MONRO pads and rotors I had on this car prior to $18.88 pads. By the way, MONRO buys parts wholesale in large quantities. I would guess that they probably paid much less than $18.88 for those drums.
A Honda dealer on the Internet has drums for about $50 (I do not recall the exact price since I had no interest in buying them).
I am not sure how "high quality" is defined but $18.88 rotors and pads were good enough for this car and I am sure $18.88 drums will be fine.
I would not call these parts junk(!) Actually, as I stated above they are probably equal or better quality parts than the ones MONRO was going to install.
Yes, labor cost was $89. Independent mechanic, 1 1/4 hours at $66 per hour. He is a good mechanic and very honest and highly recommended.
I guess you are going by "book times" . An experienced mechanic would probably do things faster. My mechanic goes by the actual time he spends, not the book rates.
To give an example, when I replaced the pads 4 years ago, first side took me like an hour, second side took about 10 minutes (learning curve?).
If you check the MONRO labor costs--like for installing wheel cylinders--$90 for each cylinder--you'll see it does not add up.
I had these rear brakes like 3 weeks and 400-500 miles and so far they are performing great. By the way, I do not think anything will go wrong with the drums or shoes. If anything goes wrong with the wheel cylinder, I will spend $50 or so and have it replaced but the probability of this happening soon is like 1 in million!
By the way, what I paid for the parts includes brake hardware. I got new hardware and it is installed. MONRO was not planning to replace the hardware and they were going to re-use the 19-year-old springs.
My original post does not mention independent mechanics and only cautions against MONRO Muffler/Brake and similar chains.
This brake work was done by an independent mechanic and I would recommend everyone search and try to find a mechanic like him if they can.
I get people like you all the time that complain that they can buy the parts cheaper somewhere else.
Usually the parts are bottom of the line parts that I would NEVER install.
I'm always amused by people say my mechanic only charges me actual time. I do too, on semi trucks and heavy equipment, but cars, I use book time.
I'm not gonna say that it always takes me that time to do it, but that doesn't make me dishonest. That is an industry standard and most people know this when they go to a shop.
That is what estimates are for.
As for experienced, well I guess I am just not that experienced in mechanics. I'll have to do some learning. :surprise:
And I'd always assume that a chain, like the MacTires and the MacLubes, would in no way use anything above the average quality.
Now, 18.88 for a disk - this one I would not touch with an umpteen foot pole. Junk does not even begin to describe it for me.
Just as there is no free lunch, there is a good reason a chinese disk is 24.99 and an OEM disk is 69.99.
Interested in what others think is expected max mileage for this car to be fairly reliable. Thank you!
While I've never owned an Audi, I've owned many cars over the years, including high mileage ones. I'd expect your Audi to be no different form most other cars, in terms of longevity. That said, the cost of maintenance is on the high side for Audis, and their reliability has generally been below average, although reliability is probably improving. The bottom line is that, if you accept that the cost per mile is higher for Audi than for many competing brands, you can expect that it should be able to easily go 150,000, and probably more than 200,000, before the cost of keeping it on the road, plus other considerations, becomes unjustifiable.
I can't think of a car that will cause more trouble than an Audi will as it ages except maybe a Volvo.
Anyone who has to work on these will agree with me!
Replace front brake pads: labor, $124.80; parts $68.25, total $193.05
Flush brake system, brake fluid replacement: labor, $96, parts $19.10, total $115.10
Power steering flush: labor, $75.20, parts, $41.50, total $116.70
Many thanks...
However, the brake fluid and power steering fluid replacement is not necessary. BUT, since they have been in use for 3 years, I wouldn't accuse the dealership of thievery or anything.
The labor charges on all of the above, however, seem a bit excessive. Looks like they charged you somewhere around 3-3.5 hours for work I could have done in my driveway in about 1.5 hours. And, yes, that is because I would be doing multiple tasks at once. But I don't believe most shops work that way. They charge you all the time for each task.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
so I'd say they didn't overcharge you, but perhaps oversold you a bit.
In other words, you got your money's worth, but maybe didn't need it all.
thank you for taking time out to reply. now i know better.
So, to keep it covered under the extended Honda warranty I had, I had the brakes flushed - a few miles and months late, but I did pay for a flush. Seemed like it was about $45.
But - I'm coming to believe a 'brake flush' in a dealership is not what I truly would consider a 'flush'. The is partially based on a several messages a few weeks ago on this topic. I think a brake flush is just sucking out the fluid from the master cylinder with a turkey baster and refilling with new fluid.
What I would actually want to be paying for would be opening up each of the 4 wheels and flushing fresh fluid through to each of them. But, I don't think this is what people are getting. Brake fluid does break down under heat (and brakes get hot) or accumulates moisture from the atmosphere. And this bad fluid is down in the lined and calipers and needs to come out.
Also - power steering 'flushing' is usually not needed. Honda does seem to require automatic transmission 'drain and refill' at what? 60,000 miles/5 years. But many other manufactors only recommend tranny service at 100,000 miles (or more). And this is not a flush, it is a drain and refill.
Truly flushing a tranny or motor is nothing I would ever do as a maintenance item. I feel iff there is significant milage, say 75,000 miles or more, you have a better chance of having something break loose and become stuck somewhere in the system if you start power flushing a tranny or motor. In my opinion, these services are to only separate you from your money.
The whole idea of a brake flush is to prevent the build-up of water/moisture in the system, which can corrode caliper piston bores, brake master cylinder bores and wheel cylinders. Once the bores corrode, they cause leaks in the system, or worse yet, jamming of the calipers or wheel cylinders.
Certainly I would not lament the cost of a brake fluid flush at 40K miles.
The power steering flush is the only thing that sounds rather useless at such low miles.
The 3 years for brake flush is right on target.
Brake fluid should be flushed through the entire system every 3 years.
As for the costs that were charged, they are with in reason, but most shops would have only added about half that time to the brake job for the flushing. So while the shop that did the work was with in reason for the charges, a more reputable shop wouldn't have hit the person for the full boat on the flushing.
Power steering flushing..........
had the vehicle been 2 years older and had more miles, beings it is a Honda, I would have recommended it.
But being only 3 years old with minimal miles on it, it wasn't really necessary.
The reason I say I would have recommended it later is because Honda's power steering systems are extremely tempermental. They require Honda's power steering fluid.
Using any other power steering fluid will cause problems later on. Most often noise in the power steering or sometimes jerky power assist in the steering.
Man, you guys keep writing this, but I have yet to come across an owners manual recommending brake flushes (as well as many other type flushes) as part of routine maintenance. So, is there a conspiracy among the auto manufacturers to have brake systems go bad and put a little money in the pockets of their dealerships... or do you guys know more about automotive engineering than the people that design and build these vehicles? Not trying to be flip... but it is extremely odd. :confuse:
My 2007 mazda6 has brake fluid changes only in the Mexico schedule, not the US schedule. Not sure why fluid would need changing in Mexico and not here :confuse: .
So to me there's enough science behind the idea of a flush to justify it. It's not voodoo like "teflon engine additive".
I'm not questioning the science behind brake flushes. But, why most car manufacturers don't have brake flushes as part of their routine maintenance schedule. Since the science is there for brake flushes, why aren't the manufacturers following with recommending them?
They think that moisture won't be a problem, I guess.
Ford is listing it at every 36,000 miles.
BMW is recommending every 2 years on their maintenance checklist. As is VW.
Honda is showing it on their checklist for every 25,000 miles.
So I am not sure what vehicles you are referring to.
They think that moisture won't be a problem, I guess.
Thanks. For the record Mazda doesn't have a service interval on brake fluid flushes either. I guess they use a better quality brake hose like GM does.
Thank you for clarifying the power steering flush - I did it at 123K, wondering if it was really necessary. My gut feeling was though that no matter what some manufacturers claim, I was not comfortable with a fluid that has been there for 7 years and over 120K. Good example between claim and reality - Honda's RDF.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
The dealer diagnosed a bad water pump and wants $475 to replace it and add coolant. I had noticed no signs of previous coolant leak before and would like to have anyone's opinion whether this is a likely diagnosis and if so how much I should be expected to pay for this part. Also, is there any other part which might be expected to have problems if the water pump is bad. Thank you in advance for any information anyone has.
When a water pump goes bad, they usually either start squeaking/squealing and/or start dripping water. You don't mention that you've had any of those symptoms. With 81K miles however, it is very possible to have a water pump go bad.
If it was my vehicle, I'd fill it back up with water and observe whether the problem really is the water pump, or it just lost all of it's coolant via some leak somewhere....and hence fix the leak. If you find it was just a leak, fix the leak, and then drain/flush/refill with coolant. If it isn't a leak and the pump was bad, replace it at that time. But I have the luxury of not being dependant upon any specific auto and have the time to observe what is really happening with it.
Only other thing that might get replaced is a thermostat, which are relatively cheap. You've got a lot of miles on the vehicle, but with only 3 years old I suspect your hoses are still in pretty good shape (unless one of the them was a source of a leak).
So it is reasonable that the water pump is bad. Might not be, but certainly reasonable.
Oh, and I'm not familiar with this vehicle or engine, but $475 for a water pump sounds quite excessive. Are you sure that doesn't include a thermostat and maybe new belts?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think I would ask the person doing the diagnosis what is the specific problem with the pump, i.e. is it leaking or are they just throwing stones at the problem? If it's leaking and the coolant is constantly low then it would probably fit your symptoms. If it's not leaking then look elsewhere, the car is to new to have problems with a corroded pump impeller.
As you say, its a transverse engine, but unless it is so crammed in there that the engine has to be removed, 4 hours seems like an awful lot to me. Maybe the timing belt has to be pulled? In which case, that might as well be replaced while the mechanic is there.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I remember changing the pump on my Taurus a long time ago. It was easily a four hour job. Power steering pump had to come off, and to get it off the pulley had to be removed with a special tool. Alternator had to come off. Also other small parts had to be removed for access to the mounting surfaces to clean all the old gasket off.
If the mechanic is figuring on a new serpentine belt, then the front motor mount may have to come off to get the belt off/on.
But more than likely, you will be paying the labor and parts for thermostat and flushing.
Why do I say that? Cause I will not replace a waterpump without replacing the thermostat and flushing the cooling system.
Here is the approx labor times for the repairs.
3.4L - water pump R&R is approx 1.4 hours, plus 1.8 for thermostat and .3 hours for flushing.
3.8L - water pump R&R approx 2.1 hours, plus .8 for the thermostat and .3 for flushing.
"Do it right or do it twice"
Must be a nasty one to get to!
MrShiftright
Host
If the fluid is really dirty, then I would consider changing it. I typically change mine at 50 - 75k miles. Or, if the system is noisy, then it might need to be changed.
I would say the same is true for the brake service. A lot of places try to sell brake flushes whenever putting on new pads and rotors. That is really wasteful unless the fluid looks bad.
My Mustang is 8 years old with 71k miles on it.....still the original dam pads and rotors...beleive that? 440 hp car too. Best dam OE brakes I have ever seen. I am swapping them this spring and will do a fluid flush at the same time just because of age.