Lexus GS 300/GS 430

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Comments

  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    Lexus will use different platforms just because the country is different. Many carmakers use the same platforms globally to cut costs.

      Lexus is especially good at making the Toyotas and Lexus different enough to justify price and market adjustments. The larger the car, the more likely it shares a platform with a Toyota from that market or in another country.

       DrFill
  • mascmasc Member Posts: 21
    I think u meant to say the smaller the car, as most of the current larger Lexuses are built on their own platforms (LS, GS). And as Lexus's globalization plans are put into action in 2005, it is one of Lexus's goals to completely break of from Toyota, it terms of platforms and chassis sharing.
    To further confirm my statement, we can see from the recently released concept models from Lexus (LF-S, LF-X [sometimes calls the HPX] and LF-C) Lexus is trying to let the public know that Lexus is not going to introduce new models that are derived from Toyota models.

    As for the engine's Lexus/Toyota is developing right now. It is quite a mystery. Because recently we have seen the new 3.0L V6 with 246hp come out in the 2006 GS concept and also the new Crown. However, if they already were able to successfully replace the old 200-210hp I6 with this new V6 (better performance) why are there still news about a 3.5LV6? The hp difference would most definitely not be significant (at most a 20-30hp difference) as they would not want the hp to reach as high as the V8's. So, why would they want to introduce another mid-size engine when a brand-new one (3.0L V6) had JUST been made?
    *FYI: What is certain is that Toyota/Lexus is going to use different engines for different drivetrains (3.3L V6 is solely made for FWD Toyota/Lexus vehicles, and the coming 3.0L V6 and/or 3.5L V6 is going to be used for RWD vehicles)

    The Crown "concept" (it was a car that has been in Japan for many yrs and is being introduced in North America for the first time as the Japan model is being redesigned for the 12th time).
    No question the new GS and new Crown will share SOME parts, eg: transmission. But the main focus Lexus is trying to start on is that no more Lexus models will share the same platform as Toyota models and this is true in the case between the new Crown and the new GS. There are still some similarities between the 2 vehicles but to consumers the difference will be more significant. As, the image of Crown is a luxury sedan whereas, the GS is a sport sedan. The Crown will have much much more interior luxuries such as an 8-inch colour moniter, rear-seat comfort features, etc and it will also be much heavier than the new GS is its handling will not be as precise and accurate as the sporty GS. On the other hand, the new GS will be much more sportier, and have better handling and perfermance compared to the Crown. So, if you look carefully at each car, you can slowly see the many differences these cars have.
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    What does Crown have to do with the GS?

      DrFill
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    As an FYI, my Lexus dealer received the news on Friday that the official launch date of the next GS is March 1, 2005. They did not know if the car would be considered a 2005 or 2006 at launch, but they guessed it would be a 2006.
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    Will be smoked by the new M from infiniti. I had high hopes for the GS but seems like I will be sticking with infiniti.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    To each his own I guess. I think the new GS is far better looking outside than the M45, has a nicer interior (the M's interior still looks cheap...and no wood) and will no doubt offer superior resale value. My family's 1999 GS 300 will almost surely be traded in on the next GS in about 1-1/2 years.

    I even think the new RL is a lot nicer than the M45. But everyone likes different cars and that's why there are lots of them.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Its good you can make that call prior to driving, or even sitting in, either car. Nice work!

    ~alpha
  • clpurnellclpurnell Member Posts: 1,083
    lenscap,

    I'm not talking about the gloria knockoff tha infiniti has had here for the past year or so but the car they unvieled at the NY auto show.

    Alpha,

    I guess I can make that call based on features and specs right now I will sit in and drive both but on paper and pictures the lexus falls short. I would love owning a lexus but their autos are too tame and have no soul. Same is true of Acura drove the TL and while the interior blows the G35 away the driving sensation left me cold. Right now Nissan, Mazda and the dreaded BMW are the only ones making interesting cars. I guess you can add the fact that I am driving a vehicle based on the same platform and have been extremely happy with it.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Based on photos, I prefer the interior and exterior design of the M over the GS.

    BTW, the M will have wood. Go check out the infiniti site.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I was talking about the new 2006 M45 as well. There is nothing about that car I like better than the 2006 GS. And, as I said, there is little doubt the Lexus will offer far better resale value.

    But it's good to see lots of choices. It simply makes all the players that much better.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    I think the segment is about to get much more competitive with cars like the '06 GS and upcoming M45, and RL.

    I think the new M45 is gorgeous inside and out, although I prefer the interior of the GS slightly over the new M45.

    oh, can't forget about the new STS. Could be another hot car.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    It used to be any Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura has better resale than competing Nissan/Infiniti. But apparently no longer. Over in the Camry vs Altima board, there were stats showing Alty resale is now higher than Camry. I read in several place G coupe has best resale in its segment.

    So I don't know how one can say GS resale will be MUCH higher than M. That's in the past. Is the resale of ES/IS MUCH higher than G35. They might not be higher, period, and certainly not MUCH higher!

    BTW, Carlos Ghosn is determined to bring Infiniti to Europe. The holdup is Nissan currently doesn't have a V6 diesel, which is needed in Europe and won't be ready until 3, 4 years from now.
  • scottphillipscottphillip Member Posts: 249
    Please excuse the poor image quality.

    image
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    I like the front.. that backside though will take some getting used to.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    I like that gray color...very slick!
  • jjpcatjjpcat Member Posts: 124
    Where did you get those pictures? I don't see GS in NY show.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I'm looking at the resale figures as per Automotive Leasing Guide, presented in the Dec 2003 New Car issue of Kiplingers Personal Finance.

    The Lexus ES330 has expected retained value of 70% and 49% of MSRP after 2 and 4 years, respectively.

    The Infiniti G35 has expected retained value of 65% and 48% of MSRP after 2 and 4 years respectively.

    Saw the new GS today at NYIAS. 100x better in person than any picture I've seen. Very agressive, progressive styling that seems more akin, in my eyes, to the first generation. The light grey had a hint of baby blue to it from some angles in the show lighting- very appealing.

    ~alpha
  • oniaconiac Member Posts: 13
    BMW & Lexus has the highest overall in retaining its value. Not even Mercedes retains it's value nowadays except for some of MB's high-end models. Infiniti is not even up to par w/ Lexus & BMW. Infiniti/Nissan has just recovered in this industry thanks to Renault who made the Nissan/Infiniti 10x better. Infiniti thanks to the G35's has gain presence in the auto industry. I myself think that the sedan is ugly, the coupe though is gorgeous. Besides the G nothing in Infiniti interests me. Inifiniti though is ahead of Acura in gaining it's title to be a luxury badge.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Actually, Infiniti resale is VASTLY improved, and just a few % points behind the ES, as I showed in my post. Resale for the G35 beats the IS by a similar margin as the ES beats the G. Acura has some excellent models, so Im not sure where that comment came from, and apparently, you havent seen or read about the next, and outstanding, RL.
    It really wasnt Renault that made Nissan what it is today, but rather Carlos Ghosn singularly, using Renaults cash.

    ~alpha
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Lexus is still ahead of Infiniti as a whole in resale value, but the gap has really narrowed in the past two years.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    If you're a fan of Lexus and its styling, it's no wonder you don't like Infiniti and its styling. It's the same with Infiniti fans, they can't find much in Lexus appealing to them. Lexus and Infiniti are as opposite in style and attitude as can be found. Acura appears to be smack in the middle ground.

    The resale stats just prove my point. The new Nissans are neck and neck with Hondas and Toyotas in resale value.

    Schweitzer (Renault chairman) and Ghosn decided to bid for Nissan because its strong engineering just needed capable management to turn it around. So Nissan revival is a product of Nissan product development, management from Ghosn and Renault seed money. Nissan actually is a much bigger company than Renault and much stronger in engineering.
  • oniaconiac Member Posts: 13
    alpha01 The RL Acura's flagship may be an outstanding vehicle but it will always be far behind Lexuses flagship. Heck in my opinion the RL will not even be better than the 2006 GS. My comment on Acura not being a luxury badge comes from the fact that they're entry level car which is the RSX ??? can be had for $16-18K. You can't be a luxury badge & have a car for <$20K, then there the TSX that can be bought for $25-26K.. These are good cars, don't get me wrong but ... can you see the logic ??

    mariner7 I actually prefer a Bimmer or a Benz but everytime I buy my cars I end up w/ a LExus bec. it's just a better buy & still have a real lux badge car . I have not accepted Acura's yet for the reasons I've stated above. Infiniti's gone a long way but I've had bad experience w/ Nissan's & so are my relatives who had once in their life tried Nissans. They like me ended up going back to Honda's or Toyota's. The current Nissans 350Z, Murano & even the Altima are great cars but they have an issue on built quality. Take the Murano for example. I looked into that to get my wife a cheap (vs. the RX 330 that she wants) replacement for her Sienna. That SUV has small rattles & squeaks. I tried the new 4Runner, solid as a rock on bumpy/rough roads, no squeaks or rattles. I don't know if it's due to the 4Runner being RWD. Even Edmunds, I noted had the same comments that I encountered on the Murano. In 96, I bought the Pathfinder, 1st year the current body style. My gosh that SUV's suspension had thumping sound when it hits bumps. That SUV thank God my job back then was walking distance from the NIssan dealership. I had the car for 3 years & it was in the shop at least 10 times for repairs. This is why I don't trust Nissan/Infinitis just yet. I admit that they're doing well, one of the good things they've done is by getting rid of that old G20. By doing that they're cars re now priced in the $30's & they now deserve to be a lux badge.

    By the way, I know Nissan's a bigger company that Renault but who's got the $$$.. I was also shocked when I learned this years back, that Renault bought Nissan, I thought it was the opposite....
  • mascmasc Member Posts: 21
    In response to message #109, the reason I was discussing about the new Toyota Crown was because some people were confused that the next GS sedan will just be a Lexus variant of it, which it is definitely not.
  • mascmasc Member Posts: 21
    Also in response to message #104 to 106, there have been a total of 3 LF series concepts released by Lexus. The LF-X, LF-S and the LF-C. The LF-X is a concept which will be made into a completely new crossover SUV debuting sometime this year (as a Infiniti FX competeitor). The LF-S and LF-C on the other hand, shows design cues that will be used on the next IS which will be coming out in the summer of 2005. This is because when the next IS come out, it will come out in three different body styles: sedan (LF-S), coupe and convertible (LF-C). The next IS will also come with all-wheel drive just as all Lexus models will have this option before 2008.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Some comments about your post:

    1. It has never been confirmed by Lexus that the LF-X will become reality. That is pure speculation at this point.

    2. The LF-S was the concept for the production 2006 GS, not the IS. Of course, since Lexus will have new styling cues some of what you see on the LF-S will most likely make it onto the new IS sedan.

    3. Not all Lexus models will offer all-wheel-drive, although most will. Certain models, like the SC 430, will not.
  • mascmasc Member Posts: 21
    Some comments about your comments:

    1. The LF-S was NOT the concept for the 2006 Lexus GS. As they do not share any similar design cues or shapes. The LF-S is most likely be a concept for the next IS. The reason the LF-S was not a concpet for the 2006 GS is because when the LF-S was designed, the final blueprints of the 2006 GS were already sealed and confirmed at Lexus, which is why the 2006 GS seen in the recent auto show do not show the significant noew design direction Lexus is taking.

    2. Yes, all models of Lexus WILL offer all-wheel drive as an option. There is absolutely no reason that this cannot be made possible by Lexus.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    masc,

    All Lexus models will not offer AWD. Why in the world would they offer AWD on a SC430 convertible?

    The LF-C shows the design direction for the next IS300, not the LF-S.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    More comments with facts to back it up. I hope this clarifies things for you.

    1. "The LF-S was NOT the concept for the 2006 Lexus GS"

    You are incorrect. The LF-S is most definitely the concept car for the 2006 GS. When they were designed has no bearing. The fact is the LF-S was introduced to the public about three months in advance of the GS as a teaser. Denny Clements, the Lexus GM, has stated this. If you still don't believe me, check out any magazine and they will say the same thing. For one example, here's a link to Automobile magazine. Note the last sentence: "The LF-S portends the next-generation GS sedan."

    http://www.automobilemag.com/auto_shows/03tms_lexlfs/

    2. "As they do not share any similar design cues or shapes."

    You are incorrect. The LF-S and GS share many design cues. Go check out a topic at clublexus.com from mid-January in the GS forum called something like "LF-S and GS together." The cars are shown together and the similarites are very clear.

    3. "the 2006 GS seen in the recent auto show do not show the significant noew design direction Lexus is taking."

    You are incorrect. The 2006 GS does show the new styling direction. From Denny Clements recent speech at a Morgan Stanley Automotive Conference:

    "In addition to greater product diversity and technology, a second step in our evolution of the brand is a new, more passionate design direction...Arriving early next year, the GS will be the first production vehicle from Lexus to benefit from this passionate new styling approach."

    4. "Yes, all models of Lexus WILL offer all-wheel drive as an option. There is absolutely no reason that this cannot be made possible by Lexus."

    You are incorrect. Denny Clements has again stated that most Lexus vehicles will offer AWD but some will not. The SC 430 was one example he gave. No competing luxury two-seat convertibles offer AWD (like the Mercedes SL and BMW 6 Series) and Lexus will not either. It is possible but it will not happen.
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    a picture is worth a thousand words -- and "they" were right. Nice pic.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Well there are definitely some cues in the new GS from the LF-S, but Lexus has no passion if the new GS really does represent their new design direction. Amazingly the new GS still manages to look like nothing while clearly having LF-S cues. Talk about watering down the concept for production, something clearly got lost in translation. Lexus: See other cars companies like Porsche, MB, Ford, Chrysler, GM and others who bring production cars to the market that are much closer to their concepts..without ruining the looks.

    M
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    merc1,

    Great post!
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yeah they brought the 500 woo. It was a bore as a concept, and its more of a bore as a production car. Maybe they should've changed it more. For the moment its a stolen Passat, with a Ford Freestar minivan front end. Now that is driving excitement. I actually love the look of the new GS, I think its a MUCH more attractive car than the outgoing model, which I also like more than the rest of the competiors in the segment (especially the ugh.. bangle 5 series). Though I also like the look of the new M quite a bit.

    Am I the only one that noticed that the new GS and the new Audi A6 look almost EXACTLY the same from the back? Whats up with that?
  • boomsamaboomsama Member Posts: 362
    i dont find they look the same :/
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    with Boomsama, and Trump for anyone who watched :)

    ~alpha
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    I don't see the resemblance at all.
  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Ah, the Trump decision. I agree, he made the right pick.
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    The new GS is better in person than in photos, but the interior is not as original as the '98, and the exterior is also a small step back. The rear window is WAY too steepy raked, more like the Dodge Intrepid.

       It will look good from some angles on the road. But there are some odd parts that just don't make a cohesive form. And, as of right now, no innovations ahave been introduced to set it apart fro the competition. So I have to stay with my Thumbs Down.

       Lexus GS wasn't the only one getting a luke-warm reception! The STS and M45 (2006) also proved mediocre at best.

       I thought the STS would be bigger, but is similar in size to the Acura RL! From what I've seen, it'll be a good value, as far as pricing goes, but shouldn't get many headturns.
     Could easily be mistaken for a CTS! And that ain't good.

       The M45 was nice, with an Ivory interior, but the exterior was very round, and lacked any surface tension to catch you eye. I'd expect 10-15k sales at best a year.

       The RL is probably a better car than all of them, but I reserve judgement until I see it on 17's. And it looks like a modified TL, no a $50k car. You can tell just by looking at it it's a V6. Very nice, safe styling, but doesn't say "Gotta Have It!".

       I think the Germans have taken a firmer hold on this segment. But the new A6 has disappointing rear end styling! Very cold and flat. But from the front I did mistake it for the A8 with the new Corporate grill. That's a good ting!

      Sat in the 545i. The cupholders are particularly strange! But I have always liked the design AND styling. Looks aggressive and even slightly Japanese in the headlights!

      I think the next Lexus IS will be BIG! Lexus will sweat this car and make it a winner. I think they really are committed to getting it right.

      DrFill
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Well, you certainly have very differet tastes from me DrFill. I've driven the new 5, and absolutely hated it. Hated every minute of it. Hated its "HAL 9000" dash, the awful iDrive, and the absolute worst of all, what happened to the legendary BMW steering feel? A friend of mine has a '98 540i, and while its not a car that I would buy for myself, I will admit that the steering is extremely communicative, to almost porsche levels. The new 5 goes in the complete opposite direction. You simply dial in the wheel angle you think will produce the right arc and hope for the best, its even number than my Jaguar, which is saying A LOT. Most of the mags dont seem to be gushing over the new 5 like the old one. I anticipate some midpack finishes, with E's and A6's taking top honors. I cant stand the E's "electro" brakes, and the new dash design in the A6 is terrible. The old one was warm and comfortable (an extreme rarity for a German car) and the new one seems to be chasing the 5 series. All three are major disappointments in my opinion.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I will have to agree wholeheartedly with you. I dont think the Germans are poised to do very well in this class. Although I have not driven a 5 series, I feel its fallen from grace, given all the bad press Ive read on it, ranging from the car mags to consumer commentary. I was in a 525i at NYIAS (I believe it was a 525, anyway), and the interior left a lot to be desired. How much longer can BMW really afford to offer a 184 hp price leader in this semi-prestigious class anyway? Even the 3.0L has fallen behind in power and torque compared to the upcoming heavy hitters-the M35 and Acura RL, and even the 06 Lexus GS and newly pepped up A6 3.0.

    I think the new Audi grille is wretched. Otherwise, the A6 seems like it will be a better entry at the price than the BMW. Both the Bimmer and the Benz E suffer from heavy overpricing. There was a Benz E320 4Matic at NYIAS that was $60,000 +. Sorry, but if I had the money, Id give up some cachet and wait to see the AWD entries from Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti.

    ~alpha
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yee gods, someone agreed with me! I'm with you 100% alpha, the A6's "Edsel" grill just doesnt do it for me. BMW's 3.0L is a very strong engine for its rated specs. The BMW 3 series and the A4 3.0 have the same 220hp, but the 3 is much much faster than the Audi's fairly weak 3.0L. I think the 530 will be able to hang on against the GS300, M35, and RL, but that the 525 and E320 may be in trouble. Personally I cant wait for an SH-AWD version of the TL, now that sounds like a car that could finally knock the 330i off its pedestal.

    I took a look at the E500 4matic as an alternative to an SUV for my wife, but it approaches $70,000! Not only that but it gets like 15mpg. No thanks, she gets an RX400h.
  • jrock65jrock65 Member Posts: 1,371
    Isn't BMW going from the 3.0 to a 3.5 next year?
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Good question. If they are, BMW is keeping it a secret, at least for the time being.
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289
    And isn't Mercedes going to go from the 3.2L V6 to a larger V6? I believe the E will turn into a E350 or something with a 3.7L V6.
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Not for '05. The "freshened" C class is still 320, and I havent heard anything about them using their 3.5 from the ML in the E, but I could be wrong.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    Yeah, it's going to be E350 definitely. My guess is same for C class. Maybe BMW is only going to import to US 2.5 with 1 and 2 series, that would make sense.

    drfill, there's a reason STS is not that big, it's built on the same platform of CTS. I read M35 is built on platform of the next, not current, Z. I don't know if that's true or not. It wouldn't surprise me if RL is built on same platform as TL, hence its relative small size.

    Don't next GS and IS share same platform?
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    Isn't the 2006 M35/45 built on the same platform as the FX35/45, Z, and G35? I thought they're all on the FM platform...
  • lexusguylexusguy Member Posts: 6,419
    Yeah, nissan is using its FM platform for just about everything these days. Makes sense, they use one platform and the single VQ in all of its various forms for all those cars, and they're gaining double digit percentage sales gains.

    I wonder what will happen to the Deville. If Cadillac really plans to establish themselves as a BMW or M-B alternative, they need a car that can compete with the S and 7 cars. The current car doesnt exactly do that.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    Yeah, M is on the same platform as Z/G. But what I read was it's on the platform of the future, not current, Z. Q is on a different platform, there's speculation that it might be discontinued. With modern tech, a platform can be stretched or contracted, so there's less need for so many platforms. And it's ridiculous for a whole new platform when Q sells in the hundreds worldwide.

    lexusguy, I suspect a big reason Deville sells well is because of its inexpensive FWD platform that's been amortized a long time ago. If they decide to build it on a brand new RWD platform, it will be much more expensive. Big gamble for GM, I'd say!

    So Nissan might have only one RWD platform in the future; Honda none, discounting S2K. How many will Toyota have, two?
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