Lexus GS 300/GS 430



  • smulansmulan Member Posts: 5
    I have to disagree with most on the board.
    Overall, I feel it's a pretty strong styling statement. The current GS looks old after almost 8 years on the market. ANd unlike the current GS, this one has a nice flowing shape. When I first saw the pics of the new GS, I did see a bit of Maxima in the rear but I see alot more 1st and 2nd generation big rump in it. I feel this is the best Lexus design since the original SC. I think the styling looks clean, uncluttered and muscular. There are really only 2 things I would change on the design, get rid of the chrome ring around the headlights and make the rear tailights a bit more unique in design. Even more important than the exterior I feel is the interior and here the GS hits a home-run.

    I don't think Lexus ever said they were going to offer a manual and I don't think they need to to go after the 5-series. How many 5-series are sold with stick's anyway? I would guess around 5%.

    With the exception of the design, which I think they shouldn't change anyway, I think alot of new features will get added. I think they haven't said everything it will have as new because it is still about a year away from production. That gives them alot of time to perfect features they may be working on.
  • oac3oac3 Member Posts: 373
    Well spoken, and I agree with you 100%. I am no fan of the GS, but I really don't see what all the fuss is about ? Maybe Lexophiles had a HUGE (maybe unrealistic) expectation of the new GS based on the speculations from the LF-S concept and autospies, that when they saw the actual release, they went ballistic ! C'mon guys, it's just a car ! BTW, IMO, the car looks quite related to the LF-S than to a Maxima or whatever else others are calling it. The only part I'd change slightly is the look of the grille, maybe give it some *teeth*, and more aggresive look.

    Looks like Merc1 wants to gloat on a perceived Lexus failure with this release. Pls note that new evolutionary designs are pretty difficult these days. Many autos will have a mixture of their peers in their designs. That's just going to be the fact. Everyone knows that Nissan had been copying Lexus in its new releases - Altima and Maxima favoring the 1st and 2nd gen GS looks. So no biggie if their is a little Maxima in the new GS. But the new GS is a whole lot better looking than the Max, IMO.
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    I hope this is just a "test balloon", but I doubt it.

      The design is the same, but the styling has gone horribly wrong! Lexus put a heavy emphasis on the great new style of this car, so if they overpromise and under-deliver, it will be a first time.

      They call it a sports sedan. Why?

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    there is only mention of AWD availability, and it is not specified as to which engine this pertains. You know, Edmunds might just be wrong, Heaven knows its happened in the past.

    I'm not in denial, thats absurd. I'm just saying, you really cant write the car off as NOT A SPORTS SEDAN or whatever, prior to it ever being driven by ANYONE.

    20% of 5 series have manual transmissions? Prove it. Also, please find the percentage of MB E class which have manuals. OH WAIT: ZERO.

    IMO, BMW left the door open, and if this car drives as interestingly as it looks, Lexus is going to walk right through. But again, only time will tell.

  • smulansmulan Member Posts: 5
    Toyota said Lexus would have it's own look, they didn't promise you that you would love the way it looks. Let's face it styling is subjective.

    On what they promised I think they delivered. You can't mistake the front end for any other car and the side profile doesn't look like another car and frankly neither does the rear, except for the 1st and 2nd generation GS. I think it's a unique design and a good looking one at that.

    As oac3 said, I think, people expected it to look just like the LF-S showcar. But let's face, that had totally unrealistic proportions! But I do think the production GS carries similarities. I see the front end resemblance, and the side resemblance.
  • tomjavatomjava Member Posts: 136
    I like the new GS design. The rear is similar to the first generation GS. Overall, it's a very nice design.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    I agree that the new GS looks good, sporty in fact. DrFill is completely wrong, but that's his opinion! Toyota said Lexus should have its looks, just like GM did to Cadillac .. and hey! It worked! :)
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    That second paragraph of yours sure is loaded with excuses. No problem if there is a little Maxima in the new GS??? Err...what? For 40-55K I don't want to be reminded of a Maxima. Let me be clear, I don't think the car will be a "failure" I just don't think it will sell much better than the old car especially after the first model year. Lexus showed a flashy and sleek concept, and touted that it was their new design direction and then produced this thing? Only most devoted of the brand can see any similarities between the LF-S showcar and this thing. Amazing, the Europeans can take a design from concept to production with very few alterations or at least still looking at least *similar* to the concept, but the perfect Lexus can't and isn't expected to be able to do the same. Excuses, excuses.

    "Pls note that new evolutionary designs are pretty difficult these days."

    Wrong, it's revolutionary designs that are "difficult" to do and even more difficult for the public to accept, not evolutionary, which really means and update of the previous, which is what Lexus did...warm over the previous car with a unsightly thickish rear end section, nothing like the very lithe and airy concept car.

  • ncg1ncg1 Member Posts: 2
    it will take a while to warm-up to. Need to see it on the road and in different colors. Love the front end, evolution of the base GS DNA not revolution. The rear doesn't thrill me, but its not that bad. Love the interior. It will be a hit, but won't conquer the 5-series
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    They've toned it down, haven't they? I remember the front wheel arches at Tokyo were much more pronounced. If so, I think it's a mistake! If someone would post the Tokyo and Detroit pics together, that'd help!
  • msgreenmsgreen Member Posts: 67
    I had originally wanted to trade my 97 BMW E39 on the new E60, but was so turned off by the stylng and features (I-drive, etc) that I deferred. My choices then came down to the new GS, the new M45, the new STS, or the E500. While, I have not seen any of these in person yet, I was somewhat disappointed by the info on the new GS. Yes, it is not bad, yes it is better than the previous model - BUT - it does not obviously distinguish itself from many other models (nissan maxima, etc), and the (at this point) failure to enhance the V8 horsepower is inexcusable, especially in the face of the competions' offerings at similar prices. Someone at Lexus needs to kick themselves in the butt....
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The competition is priced higher, and the current V8 offers plenty of power as is, period. It is definitely competitive with the E500 and 540i.

  • msgreenmsgreen Member Posts: 67
    I am not so sure that the competition is "priced higher". I grant you that the BMW is, but we don't know yet about the new M45 or STS (nor do we know what the new GS will sell for, but probably more than the current one). I see the E500 as more of a competitor for the LS than the GS. In any event, I still feel that Lexus missed a chance to differentiate the GS more from the previous model, especially in terms of performance. The Infiniti, BMW and Caddy engines already make more power and it just seems unfortunate that Lexus didn't tweak the 4.3 a bit more.
  • speedway86speedway86 Member Posts: 7
    I'm sure that the Lexus GS is a coming attraction to the 2005 Toyota Avalon. I don't think Toyota will drop the Avalon, even though it's close to the Lexus. It's their flagship car!
  • theo2709theo2709 Member Posts: 476
    The GS and Avalon aren't really similar, as the GS is RWD. The Avalon is just a reskinned Japanese Toyota (I forget the name). The Avalon is also like $15,000 less.
  • 2003sev62003sev6 Member Posts: 44
    I think that Toyota may have achieved exactly what they set out to do. The last GS was on par with the BMW 5 series for straight ahead power but it was lacking a bit in the handling department. This is exactly why the majority of their focus was put to the suspension.


    I think that the Avalon is named the Mark II in Japan.
  • i_drivei_drive Member Posts: 35
    After being a loyal (owned one of the original batch of Lexus') Lexus customer for more than a decade (9 different models), i finally couldn't stand the styling direction Lexus was heading to. I made the switch from Lexus to Mercedes-Benz. Why? The Lexus may have all the luxurious options bundled up into a great-qualiy car for a great price, but the overall adrenaline-performance that I (and probably most people) want is simply not there. Now granted, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and other European makers don't build as reliable or high-quality workmanship (actually, not always) as Lexus and other luxury japanese car brands, but deep down, in that Deutsche-engine, there always seems to be a heart, pumping and pumping...


    I have driven the '04 LS430. Great, but not what I expected in terms of sporty driving.
    The GS430. Ok. So you people say "well the LS isn't meant for sporty driving." Well folks, sorry to break this to y'all but the 545i in my opinion (for god sakes, even the 3) has a damn better character than the GS. The GS simply feels like a perfected-robot, designed just to "satisfy your whims".

    Soooo... i was impressed with the concept introduced by Lexus, and for once, I was convinced maybe instead of trading in that ML for the Cayenne S- i should consider the next-generation GS; one look at the new so-called "evolutionary" GS made me do a complete 360-turn and back to the Germans.

    Granted, it's probably going to turn out to be a great car, just like the current GS. But will it be revolutionary? For Lexus, maybe (honestly, it doesn't to me). Very-sporty (i mean, it's going to compete with the E500 and 545i)? I'll have to wait and test-drive it for myself to judge that. But from the looks of it, it's just another japanese-attempt from Lexus to try and "claw-and-chew-off" the car manufactures across the pond in Deutschland.

    1989 LS400
    1991 LS400
    1991 SC300
    1992 SC400
    1995 LS400
    1996 LX450
    1998 RX300
    1997 LS400
    2000 LS430
    ML320 --> Cayenne S
    S430 ---> 745Li
    SL55 AMG ---> Next-generation SL-Class

    Still miss Lexus, but after driving Mercedes-Benz, and particularily the SL55 vs. the SC430, don't see why i should be switching to Lexus for the time-being...

    Well, off to a holiday in freezing NYC for a couple of days.
    Just my thoughts.


    For the love of god, don't start another MB/BMW vs. Lexus argument; heard that sooooo many times.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,129
    that argument won't get very far in this discussion :)


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  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747

    One comment, i_drive: You and who else consider the E500 "sporty"?

  • saugataksaugatak Member Posts: 488
    I don't think the new Lexus GS300 looks bad, but it's not IMO a major upgrade styling wise from the the old GS300.

    Not being a Lexus fan, I dunno if Dr.Fill had unrealistic expectations, but the car unveiled at Detroit doesn't look even close to the concept car, which did look hot, so in that sense Lexus did undeliver.

    Let's wait to see how the car drives. Hopefully it'll drive more like a BMW.

    Regarding driveability of Benzes, they're not the most driveable but the top of the line models are so solid and have such powerful engines, you just feel like you're a driving one hell of a powerful machine, and I know a lot of people who love that feeling.
  • jimxojimxo Member Posts: 423
    First off the GS is a 2006 due out in Jan 05 after the release of the new RX400H (H-Hybrid).

    Lexus direction is about Luxury and green as in environment. You want 400 hp go get the AMG or M series.

    The new GS430 will have a bump 30-45 HP with 2wd only. The GS330 will have a V6 255 HP with AWD. Everything Lexus is banking on is under the skin with new technology. From blue tooth and XM radio to new transmissions and safety features.

    The following year Lexus will have a Hybrid V8 in the GS430 with AWD and improved performance. 0-60 faster than the current GS and 1/4 mile in 13.0 flat and 40 MPG city.

    If you want poor fuel economy, gas guzzler taxes, and trips to the service department then Lexus is not for you.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,129
    I've changed the discussion title to reflect the push back to 2006.


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  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    I love the upcoming GS but have a question. Everything I've read, including Lexus material, says the six-cylinder will be a GS 300 with 245hp. Where are you reading it will be a 330 with 255hp?
  • smulansmulan Member Posts: 5
    I think Toyota isn't being completely truthful with the info. they have given out to day.

    Such as the GS300 having a 3.0L 245 hp V6. I can't imagine Toyota giving the GS a smaller V6 than the ES330. It makes no sense. The hp figure might be true at about 245bhp, but I think the size in liters is more than what the initial press releases have said. That makes me think, maybe the GS430 won't be a 430 after all.
  • jimxojimxo Member Posts: 423
    The GS330 hp I cannot confirm 100% so go with 245 for now but I was told 255 from a friend who works at Lexus.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    The GS is an inline 6, while the ES is a V6. Supposedly, Lexus's inline 6 from Japan costs more to produce than their V6. Don't know if that's true. Plus, the inline is better at performing sporty maneuvers, at least in the GS that is. :)
  • rhpcparhpcpa Member Posts: 3
    my wife said the 2006 gs looks like a maxima when we saw the first pictures. it did not look like the concept pictures on autospies. i will test drive, but i'm not as excited as i used to be.
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    Confusing, given the massive size increase, and the importance of the GS relative to the IS, but hopefully this rumor has teeth.

      Better have the 6-speed stick from the start!

  • stormbringer1stormbringer1 Member Posts: 12
    If you want poor fuel economy, gas guzzler taxes, and trips to the service department then Lexus is not for you.

    Wow go get a GX470, talk about fuel economy. I need a tanker in my yard to keep it filled daily.
  • stormbringer1stormbringer1 Member Posts: 12
    If you want poor fuel economy, gas guzzler taxes, and trips to the service department then Lexus is not for you.

    Wow go get a GX470, talk about fuel economy. I need a tanker in my yard to keep it filled daily.
  • augustus1augustus1 Member Posts: 1
    When the new GS400 came out in 98 It was one of the most buetiful cars on the road,I purchased one in 98 And again with GS430,I,purchased one in 2001, and again in 2002. I have waited with great expectation for the new GS500 as I was told by the worlds largest lexus dealer. It was to be another bold move away from the others that now all look like the GS did (nissan etc.). What happened to the larger V-8 (4.7liter) and the unique look, and the supposed every 5 years a body style change
  • 4girls4chuck4girls4chuck Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone know where i can view some pictures of the redesigned gs300 awd, and some specs. Love my current gs300, unfortunately it does not go up my driveway from dec to march.....
  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289

    You can go to then click on "Public" on the left menu bar and then type in Lexus or GS or 2006 GS430. And you will get a ton of pics.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Just the person I wanted to see posting again. Your opinion of the new GS please.

  • maxhonda99maxhonda99 Member Posts: 1,289

    I'm glad you were waiting. It must have kept you up at night!!

    How can one form an opinion on a car from pictures alone? kind of hard to without seeing one in person, driving one, sitting in one, testing one. Even the magazines haven't tested one yet.

    From pictures though, I see a strong resemblance to the LF-S. Their are only 2 aspects which I do not like from the pictures. One is the chrome trim around the headlights and two is the rear tailights. The rear end does look slightly maxima-ish at the rear end from a side profile. Overall, it looks very nice. It's very clean, uncluttered, attractive shape. Much better than the cluttered look of the current GS.
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    Nope, just wanted to hear what all the Lexus faithful have to say about their new baby. My question was only about styling. I've already seen the car at Detroit. Amazing, you see some similarities to the LF-S!!! I see none at all, oh well.

  • stuman168stuman168 Member Posts: 27
    I know everybody's been curious about the back seat. there is picture of backseat area from chicago autoshow
  • bartalk2bartalk2 Member Posts: 326
    According to Automobile magazine, the 3.0 V-6 in the forthcoming '06 GS is unrelated to the current Toyota/Lexus 3.0 V-6.
  • chrisbothchrisboth Member Posts: 493
    THe 3.0 is one of the best engines ever - i can't imagine anyone complaining about the 3.0 being in thier GS. That engine can handle 450 hp without upgraded internals and 1000 with them. Who cares what the es has!
  • merc1merc1 Member Posts: 6,081
    This engine (new GS V6) hasn't been released yet??? How do you know this??

  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    Here's what Toyota said in the press release.

    "Joining the potent and refined 4.3-liter V8 will be an all-new 245-horsepower V6 engine replacing the current inline six."

    Now the "all-new" part could simply mean the engine is new to the GS line up (replacing the I6), or it could literally mean this is an all-new engine.

    From everything I've read this engine is new, having nothing to do with the 3.3 in the Lexus ES330. I also read somewhere (can't remember where though) that Yamaha helped design the 3.0 V6 that is going to be in the GS.

    I also read that except for some exterior measurements and little things here and there, that the new Toyota Crown is close to the same as the new GS. Same platform, 3.0 V6, steering, 6-speed auto, etc.

    The 3.0 V6 is suppose to use "dual" VVTi, something GM is suppose to be using in their new 3.6 V6 as well (using the same supplier?).

    Bottomline, from what I've read, the engine is not used in anything else yet, but I could be wrong. I'm looking forward to the next IS300 so any info anybody has on this engine is appreciated.

    Also my thoughts on the new GS. I think it's ok but not anything great either. I'm not really interested in cars like that but overall I think it's ok. Might look better in person so I'll wait.

    The interior is kind of a letdown, but even worse is I've looked at some upclose pictures of the interior taken by people at the autoshow. The interior seems to be kind of cheap looking in certain areas. Also the seats seem to have leather on the outside part but the middle part looks to be cloth. Obviously this is pre-production so I expect them to fine tune the interior and get it up to the level it needs to be. I think in the end it'll be fine.
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    There is suppose to be at least a couple of engine choices for the next IS300. I would guess the 3.0 245hp version (maybe slightly more or less depending on how it's tuned) would be the base engine. What I can't quite figure out is what the other version will be.

    Will the other engine be reserved for the "AMG" version of the IS300 or will the IS300 do like the BMW 3-series and offer two normal engine choices? If so would they offer a 2.5 version and then the 3.0? If not then offering a 3.5 might shadow the base GS300. If they do offer a V8 I think that's for the "AMG" version and not as a normal choice.

    I think the 2.5 in the Toyota Crown is the same as the new 3.0 V6, except in 2.5 form obviously. It offers both 2.5 and 3.0 versions. I know Lexus isn't playing the HP war but 2.5 might be a little low.

    I think they should have given the GS300 a 3.5 version of the engine instead of the 3.0, which kind of has a mental effect on people seeing the ES330 with a 3.3 engine. But if the V8 is only 300hp then a 3.5 would be too close in HP.

    Something just isn't right here. This is what the press release says.

    "Preliminary Specifications
    Wheelbase: 112.2 in.
    Length: 189.8 in.
    Width: 71.7 in.
    Height: 56.1 in.
    Engines: 3.0 liter V6 - 245 hp; 228 lb.-ft. of torque
    4.3 liter V8 - 300 hp; 325 lb.-ft. of torque
    Transmission: 6-speed sequential automatic"

    I guess they might want to keep it close to 300hp so the souped up version ("AMG" version) will seem like a big jump in power.

    Any thoughts?
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    Autoexpress has some info on some upcoming hybrid Lexus cars. Not sure how accurate it is though. If it is, then all the high performance cars may be hybrids.

    In August 2005, Lexus GS350 GT is released (only in Japan at first?). Will have 300hp 3.5 V6 + 170hp electric motor. Will have AWD and estimated around 60mpg. This is due to supposed improvements in battery technology.

    12 months later the LS500 GT is released. Will have 400hp 5.0 V8 + 200hp electric motor. Target will be Mercedes S600L. Estimated fuel mileage at 50mpg.

    Later an IS350 GT will be offered with the same 3.5 V6 that is in the GS hybrid. However it says the hybrid may not be offered on the IS due to cost. It may offer some fuel-saving technology like engine stop and start systems though.

    Toyota insider mentions due to cost that it will only be offered on more expensive cars at first, but plans are to offer hybrid versions in most of their cars in the Lexus and Toyota line-up.
  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    The Crown is actually just a new GS, right? Same powertrains, same platform, same drivetrain.. at least from what I've heard.
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    Aristo. The LS is Celsior in Japan, FYI.

  • rctennis3811rctennis3811 Member Posts: 1,031
    I didn't mean it's the same car exactly, just platforms, transmissions, drivetrain, and powertrain.
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    As far as I know you are correct. Obviously there are some differences but the big stuff (platform, engine, transmission, etc.) is the same as the Crown.
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    In response to your above post, message #84, about the LF-C being the next IS, I'm not sure if that's right. I get the impression that the concept is pretty big so my guess is it's the replacement for the current SC. I find it strange that they would have a coupe/convertible IS, a rectractable hardtop convertible SC, and then add another coupe on top of that to the line-up. Not that I would complain, but just seems like an unusually high number of 2-door cars in their line-up.

    I also have doubts that this is the next Supra (in Lexus form) because I would guess the Supra in other countries would use the same platform as the new IS to keep the price in check. The IS coupe can take care of that spot in the US.

    By the way, do you have any idea if in Japan that Toyota is willing to share platforms with both Lexus and Toyota cars or will they do like Infiniti does here and try to make Lexus have it's own platforms seperate from Toyota?

    If Lexus does indeed have 3 different 2-door cars in their line-up and Toyota loses the Celica and MR2 then Toyota's line-up will seem like garbage. Why give Lexus so many 2-door coupes and then turn around and make Toyota the next Buick?
  • callmedrfillcallmedrfill Member Posts: 729
    One, you may have misunderstood me. The LF-C may or may not be the next SC. But I said the LF-S, seen in Tokyo, would be the next IS not the LF-C.

       And B, I would wager a coupe version of the LF-S, to ape the G35/G35 coupe success. And a SC and SC Lite in it's next generation. It appears to me that Toyota MIGHT be getting the idea that the current SC is a little to soft around the middle, and could tighten up some.

      As far as Celica and MR-S go, I don't dig either because of the lightweght engine, so when they give a Celica some real thunder, it will sell!

  • lenscaplenscap Member Posts: 854
    Another rumor is that the LF-C is the supercoupe Lexus is working on that will be priced at $150,000 and have a V10 engine. There was an article about this in this week's Business Week Online, and Lexus said they would like to show the production-ready car as early as this fall's Tokyo Motor Show. Which means the car in NY may be the concept version of that car. We'll have to wait and see (Lexus has said the concept "only" has a V8).

    "By the way, do you have any idea if in Japan that Toyota is willing to share platforms with both Lexus and Toyota cars or will they do like Infiniti does here and try to make Lexus have it's own platforms seperate from Toyota?"

    Infiniti does not use all separate platforms from Nissan. The new QX, for example, is a Titan/Armada platform. Lexus only shares platforms with certain models like the RX (Camry), ES (Camry) and LX (TLC). Things will get very different in the next two years as Lexus is launched worldwide, including Japan. Lexus will not simply be rebadged Toyotas anymore, whereas Infiniti only exists in the US and Canada and will remain rebadged Japanese (and US) Nissans.
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