Lexus GS 300/GS 430

boomsama

whats the difference between the '01 GS and the ones before?

aggie76

Biggest visual is the change in the rear taillight dropping the turnsignal to the bottom instead of being centered I believe. There may have been other changes but owning a '98 I really haven't kept up with them specifically.

boomsama

All the gauges on the '06 GS have like a stainless steel-like look backing. Would they have worse visibility than the gauges in the current GS?

lexusguy- the photos of the seats that arent full leather:
http://gallery.dealerrater.com/gallery/xl/100_1389.jpg
http://gallery.dealerrater.com/gallery/xl/100_1388.jpg

The base of the front seat also seem somewhat shorter than the current GS.

lexusguy

The first generation GS ran from 93-97, and was only available as the GS300. It got a complete redesign for '98, as the GS300\400. Both of the cars from 98-00 had the E-shift manumatic steering wheel shift controls (the V8 lost that for '01), and I believe a NAV system was first offered in '99. It was the first generation NAV system though, and not nearly as good as the 2nd and 3rd (current) gen NAV systems. It also deleted the optional Nakamachi sound system. '99-00 GS with Nav is pretty much impossible to find anyway. The '00 car added standard brake-assist.

'01 was a significant freshening, with revised headlamps, grill, and tail lamps, the 4.3L VVTi ULEV V8 (The 3.0L 6 was a carry over), and the Xenon lights became standard. Also, front\rear side curtain airbags were added, there's more wood in the interior, it got the updated NAV system, and the Nakamachi package was dropped for Mark Levinson. The steering wheel changed with the rest of Lexus 3-spoke wheeled cars for '01-03 (ES, GS, IS, RX, SC) and secondary audio controls, and the standard 16" alloy design was changed. The 3-tunnel gagues also appear to be slightly restyled (same black on white with a light green illumination though), and the '01 cars got some chrome trim around the gauges.

The seats of the '06 look to have a perforated leather insert in the center, unless Im mistaken.

boomsama

those ones look more like a cloth kind of material, however there are the perforated leather seats as well:

http://autoz.org/w/lexus/Lexus_GS430_2006_020.jpg

The '06 GS looks a lot more muscular and more modern. I think I'll just go for the '06 GS300 next year, and add the options.

I heard that 18" wheels are standard with the GS430, so thats good to hear. Prices will probably increase quite a lot though. A site predicted it to be $62,000 - $80,000 canadian dollars. Which model thats for, i dont know.

maxhonda99

lexusguy,

Actually, the 2nd generation GS had a GPS system right from the beginning for the 1998 model year.

lexusguy

I actually would not expect much of an increase. The RX330 got a huge amount of features added over the RX300, and the price stayed pretty much the same, maybe $1500 more than a fully optioned RX300 for a fully optioned RX330. I would guess $40,000 US for the GS300, and $50,000 for the GS430. Prices will definitely be below 530i and E320.

boomsama

Good to hear. Since the GS430 is not available here, the GS300 comes standard with everything currently. So will i actually see a drop in the price since the GS430 may be available here?

boomsama

Is there a possibility that the GS will have the SAME version of AWD as the RX and get 50/50 torque distribution, or a rear biased AWD?

lenscap

"It got a complete redesign for '98, as the GS300\400. Both of the cars from 98-00 had the E-shift manumatic steering wheel shift controls (the V8 lost that for '01)..."

Just a correction...from 1998-2000 only the GS 400 had the E-shift controls, the GS 300 did not (my family has a 1999 GS 300). When the V8 went from the GS 400 to the GS 430 in 2001, the E-shift controls were gone but appeared on the GS 300. I remember something about E-shift not being compatible with the 4.3 engine. I haven't kept up with the current GS 300 so I don't know whether or not it still has E-shift.

lexusguy

I stand corrected. I always thought tha the GS300 has them from '98 onward. It wasnt really a "compatibility" issue, Lexus just chose not to use it with any of their 4.3L\5-speed cars, (SC, LS, and GS). However, it has returned with their new six-speed automatic. The '04 LS has a +\- gate on transmission, and Im sure the new GS will get that also. If the SC gets the six-speed for '05, it most likely will too.

Boomsama, I really have no idea. Details on the new GS are extremely scare. No one is even sure exactly what six cylinder is going to be in the engine bay.

maxhonda99

Lexus stand was that the 4.3L V8 and the E-shift wasn't compatible due to emissions tuning.

lexusguy

Interesting, I've never heard that version before. Motortrend said that Lexus felt the E-shift would "diminish the character" of the 4.3L.

boomsama

What are the pros of an inline engine over a vee-type engine anyway?

maxhonda99

Several benefits of a inline-6.

1) inline-6 is generally smoother running.
2) more efficient internally equals more power with a straight 6.
     more efficient because less parts, such as in DOHC design, only 2 cams vs. 4.

lexusguy

The straight six is also considered the ideal for handling, better side to side weight balance than a standard V. Not that ultimately it really matters that much, the Porsches use a flat "boxer" 6, and the NSX uses a mid mounted V, so you can get great performance out of any type of arrangement.

boomsama

think the 0-100km/h time will be about the same since it does have more power but it has the AWD to slow it down in the GS300?

fbear

Prior posts here questioned whether the "new" V-6 would be a brand new V-6 or just new to the GS.

From Automobile Magazine; March, 2004; page 29:

    "The new 3.0-liter V-6 is unrelated to the current Lexus/toyota v-6s."

lexusguy

My guess is a bit quicker, probably roughly 7.x seconds.

Fbear, that would be only logical, after all, the only 3.0L V that Toyota has is the one that was just replaced. It would seem more than a little odd for them to use the old RX300 engine in a new for '05 car.

maxhonda99

Also, don't forget the '06 GS will have a 6-speed automatic.

boomsama

Will E-shift still be offered? I haven't seen any of the E-shift controls in any of the photos yet.

lexusguy

Yep. The new GS is getting the 6-speed auto from the '04 LS, which is an auto\manual shift gate.

boomsama

In some of the picutres, the ground clearance of the GS seems VERY low. Is this true, or is it just me

lexusguy

remember, these are pre-production cars, with sexy, show car tires. I'm sure the final production car will have standard clearance.

boomsama

so who here is thinking of getting one of the '06 GS? I know i am, well until the test drive does not satisfy me.

lexusguy

I am definitely going to take one out for a long test drive. I dont think I'm ready to trade in my LS just yet though, I want to see what Lexus has planned for its replacement first.

boomsama

Just on another note, i've sat in a car with air suspension, and the ride seems to be a lot harsher than that with standard spring suspension. Does air suspension give a harsher ride? What use does it actually have?

I'm still hearing quite a lot of talk about the GS having a tweaked version of the 3MZ-FE. It wouldnt't make much sense for them to use the mainstream toyota V6 since this is supposedly Lexus' first lexus-only designed car. On the other hand, with the new A6 having at least 188kw (252hp) in their V6 3.2 FSI engine, would it be possible that they may possibly tweak it up higher to beat the A6's? As it is the newest "sports-sedan" 6 cyclinder engine, it may seem to be the new benchmark. It doesn't make sense for Lexus to release an engine after the A6, only with lower power.

lexusguy

The GS300 is still a big question mark. Lexus' biggest competition is the M35 and the RL, and to a lesser extent, the German cars. Toyota is well aware of the RL and M35's 3.5L engines, so they've got to do something. Acura's got 300hp and at least 260lb.ft, and they will not make the kind of gear ratio mistakes that Infiniti has made in the past (Q45). The M will have at least 280hp, and probably at least 270lb.ft, and their 5-speed box is supposed to be significantly improved, along with the vastly superior FM-L platform, instead of sharing with the Q. An 8 second 0-60 GS300 isnt gonna cut it this time around. We'll have to wait and see what they do.

fbear

Anyone have a thought on the price range for a 2006 GS300 with all wheel drive?

boomsama

predicted $62,000 - $80,000 canadian.

lexusguy

Maybe $40-45K. Dunno.

saugatak

Why did Lexus decide to dump the straight 6 in the GS and go with an all new v6? If this all new v6 is only going to produce 250HP (according to rumors) what is the point of developing this engine given that the competition has already exceeded 250 HP?

alpha01

Hmmn. From my understanding, the basic architecture of the straight-6 dates back to the 1980s. If the new 3.0L V6 in the GS is significantly lighter than the 3.5L engines in the RL and M35, it just might be enough to counter-balance the greater raw power. Additionally, the M, I believe, is only going to offer a 5 speed auto gearbox (someone correct me if I am wrong), and the GS's V6 will be coupled to a 6 speed unit, further offsetting performance differences. That, and fuel economy might be significantly better than competitors. Its basically up to the consumer to weigh his/her choices against his/her preferences. Also, as far as I know, this 3.0L engine is not a version of the 3MZ-FE.

~alpha

lexusguy

This 3.0L is supposedly all new. I dont really understand their reasoning either, I would've just bored out the corporate 3.3L to produce 260+hp, but thats me. Perhaps this engine is a short term solution? Who knows...

boomsama

maybe an inline engine provides better "sportyness"?

lexusguy

Some say that an inline 6 provides superior "balance" and handling to a traditional Vee or a flat arrangement. I dont really buy it. The NSX uses a mid mounted Vee, and 911s use flat 6s. Both of those cars are VERY sporty.

boomsama

perhaps its more of a "gimmick" thing. Example being that the 530i has an inline 6, and lexus IS trying to comptete with them so they might say "Our GS uses an inline 6 too" just to be more on par with the fiver.

Just my opinion.

boomsama

I've looked at the interior photos pretty clearly, and those controls behind the gear stick have the "+", "-", and "Map Voice" buttons on them. Could the another buttons to use the sat nav in a more relaxed position when driving? (i.e. driving with one hand on wheel, other on armrest, it only makes sense that those controls would be in reach of a rested arm)

maxhonda99

The new GS will have a V6, the current GS300 has a 3.0L inline-6. Toyota/Lexus has used this engine for years. A smaller version of this 3.0L straight 6 was used in the Toyota Cressida for years, then it was bored out for Supra/SC300/GS300 duty. Then for 1998, they added VVTi heads for improved efficiency.

The one reason I will be glad to see the straight 6 go is due to inefficiency(by modern standards) and weight. That inline-6 is heavy due to the iron block. Today basically all engines are using aluminum blocks for weight savings.

I also think Lexus is throwing us a curveball with the talk of a 3.0L V6. I think closer to actual introduction they will reveal a bigger production engine.

dogface5

As all of you may know, many different sources indicate the engine will be a "new" 3L V6. Lets hope that it is nothing like the 3.3L since that engine is not impressive by any strech of the imagination. If the GS300 is to compete a sub 7 0-60 is a must.

boomsama

so will it be a vee-six, or an inline six?

alpha01

"Lets hope that it is nothing like the 3.3L since that engine is not impressive by any strech of the imagination."

How is that so? Do you own one? Can you point me to any references that state that the 3.3L in the ES/RX/Sienna/Solara is less than excellent?

I can offer a reference from Car and Driver that likened the 3.3L's sound quality and thrust to that of a BMW inline 6, if you'd like...

~alpha

dogface5

"How is that so? Do you own one?"

Why would I buy something that I don't like?

However, I have driven the ES, RX, and Camry SE and while the engines are refined, they truly don't live up to their numbers. For example the Camry is lighter that the accord, however not as quick even though engine is 10% larger.

Camry SE 3.3 (curb weight) 3350 lbs (0-60) 7.6s (edmunds)

Honda Accord EX V6 (3385 lbs) 7.5s (edmunds)

If it matches up like that to the accord, how is is it going to match up to the VQ, one of the best engines in the market. Not very well. In fact I think the engine I had in my 1996 Maxima (3L VQV6) is faster, more inspiring than than Toyota's 3.3.

I have nothing against Toyota/Lexus (in fact I am buying a GX470 tomorrow), however the 3L in the GS300 needs to be much better than the 3.3L because Lexus doesn't need another ES. That being said I am going to get an M35/45 or GS430 come next spring (I would only consider the GS300 if it is leaps and bounds better than the 3.3).

boomsama

With 245hp, it should be faster than the ES/Camry SE.

lexusguy

Remember, Toyota doesnt set out to build race cars. The 3.3L is an evolution of the old Camry\ES 3.0L. Toyota generally does not achieve the kind of power boost that Honda does with a new generation of engines. If you recall the transition from the 4.0L to the 4.3L V8, they added around 20lb.ft of torque and that was it. For Toyota, the 3.3L gets the job done, and will serve them most likely until the camry gets a complete redesign in the '07 model year. The GS300 will NOT use this 3.3L like the ES and RX, and so it should not perform the same. Lexus is hardly a stupid company, I'm quite sure they will prepare themselves to fight the M35.

boomsama

so what type of engine IS the GS300 going to be using?

boomsama

228lb torque isnt going to cut it either, which is even lower than the 3.3L V6.

Is it better to have more torque, or more power in a car like the GS?

alpha01

Toyota's 6-speed auto is said to be a significant upgrade from the 5 speed, so as to better utilize the new 3.0L's torque and hp. Numbers dont tell the whole story.

dogface- Toyota lists the Camry SE V6's curb weight as 3494. In other words, your assertion that the Camry is lighter than the Accord is wrong.

I hardly find Edmunds.com a good source of performance info, but given that the Camry SE V6 is about 100 lbs. heavier than the Accord, being shy of the Accord's time by a tenth of a second doesnt really seem like much.

(It should be noted that Car and Driver tested an Accord V6 4 door to 60 at 7 flat, and the Camry Solara SE V6 Sport at 6.9.)

FWIW, the VQ is a powerful engine, a great one. It is NOT as refined as the 3.3L or Honda's 3.0L, at least not in the Altima I drove.

~alpha

saugatak

Well an inline 6 is inherently balanced so there is just about no vibration. A v6 OTOH is smooth but not as smooth as an inline 6. A v6 clearly has a packaging advantage over an inline 6.

I think most companies that make both FWD and RWD cars are abandoning the straight 6 and going with v6 b/c a v6 will fit in both FWD and RWD cars.

Not knocking the v6, m personal preference is the straight 6 b/c the engine just feels so good.

Take a ride in the Chevy Trailblazer which has an awesome 4.2L straight 6 to see what I mean. It's a shame that an engine that good has to be stuck in a car so mediocre.

maxhonda99

How many times does it have to be written? many people have pointed out the '06 GS will have a V6.