Scion tC



  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,215
    The only other one where I bought mine (a purple/red AT) was sold last night (came in yesterday aftertoon). Was pre sold, but the deal fel lthrough, so someone else bought it from stock. Not sure how fast they wil start flowing in, but I can't see them being an in-stock item for a while.

    The car mags all seem to have pieces this week. I mentioned the CD one (very favorable) and MT has a first drive. They pretty much rave about it, especially considering what yo uget for the price.

    IMO, once the reviews and word of mouth/sightings get rolling, there will be a lot of showroom traffic looking at these.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • scootertrashscootertrash Member Posts: 698
    "Still trying to convince the wife that I need to replace my old 88 MR2!"

    If you can't replace the car, then you need to replace both. ;-)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,215
    That's mean. True, but mean.

    FYI, C&D and MT both report about 7.4-7.5 for 0-60. Not bad IMO, given the size/weight. Not a rocket ship, but plenty quick (beats a Civic Si and Mini Cooper)

    In some of the tests, it was actually quicker than than the IS300 (a benefit to the shorter gearing). Back seat has more leg room too.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • 307web307web Member Posts: 1,033
    Putting more money down doesn't solve the problem. You still lose the money. You've just paid it in advance. Gap insurance is for those who don't want to take the chance of losing the money.
  • tahlequahtahlequah Member Posts: 54
    I don't know how long you've been following along but most of us have been waiting some time for these little gems (tc) to roll in. In fact, I'm still waiting, 5 weeks and counting. So, maybe if you order the car now, it will be here by the time you graduate! (joking of course)

    However, I think a lot of the accessories aren't available yet, at least I don't believe the supercharger and side air bags are.(can someone confirm this?) If you split the difference between now and December, say Mid-September, I think you'd get the car on time and with a lot less waiting than what I have personally experienced AND the options may actually be available at the time of the buy.

    I truly believe the tc is a great choice. Well done Deuce!
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    Is usually cheaper through an insurance company. Ours is $39/6 months and you only need it for about the first 2-3 years of a loan. Total expenditure less than $200. I know a dealership tried to get me for $500 once.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Side airbags are available now. The first tC to arrive at dealerships did not come with them. The distributor made sure of it. That's why we ended up with the right color but no bags. This is in my area Central Atlantic, can't speak for the other distributors. As I said before I'm expecting a white one with the side airbags next week. They will be rolling in slowly but surely. The accessories, (supercharger) is due in November, most of the other stuff should be out in the next few months. Enjoy. By the way, I wouldn't get rid of my MR2 or my wife. They both handle like a dream ; )
  • wolfxwolfx Member Posts: 72
    I found the standard Pioneer head to be muddled, and the sound to be too bass heavy or no bass at all, and since I needed to add navigation anyway, I went ahead and replaced it today at Hi Fi Buys; put in the new Pioneer DVD/Navigation system, and WOW WOW WOW. Night & day.

    The stock speakers are truly gems. Initially, I was convinced I had to replace them too (tweeters performance appeared subpar), but the speakers are not the problem, just the stock head unit. Now, the sound is absolutely open and natural. No added amps, just the piddly 50 watts/ch. coming from the new head unit.

    For audio upgrades, just replacing the head unit with a decent EQ control is going to make this car sing, without having to spend a whole lot.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    What's the model number and how much is it? If you don't mind telling us.
                   : )
  • wolfxwolfx Member Posts: 72
    Pioneer AVIC N1 $1999 plus $125 installation at Hi Fi Buys, and I've been looking around the other large retailers prior to my purchase; the price is about right. This price however doesnt include the rear view camera, which is an additional option. Fortunately, it's a tax deduction for me, because the NAV function is for my wife's real estate practice (she's a realtor), and this is her business errand car

    I think it's going to take me at least this weekend to figure out all the features, but needless to say, it is easily the most user friendly after-market NAV system/DVD combo I've ever seen. I checked out Alpine and this latest model is hands down the best, both in features and usability, available today.
  • j42j42 Member Posts: 13
    do you know what kind of speakers are already in the car? i think the factory set up isn't bad, but it could definately be better, so i'm planning on an upgrade, and trying to figure out what exactly i want to change. thanks
  • wolfxwolfx Member Posts: 72
    I was under the impression they were Pioneers (the whole system was sourced from Pioneer); although not Pioneer's best obviously, but definitely usable for "moderate volume"; if you have a budget, I say spend most of that budget on the head unit, and then spend on the amp, and lastly on the speakers. A few reasons:
    1. Car speaker technology when it comes to sound quality honestly does not improve much over a given 3 year span, but a 3 year obsolete set of new speakers are dirt cheap and will sound as good as the "newer" current model. Unless sheer volume capacity is your goal, and not sound quality. Being able to handle monstrous levels of power does indeed improve with each newer model, but I'm assuming you're upgrading your drivers for the music.
    2. However, head units are constantly changing to stay in touch with the latest techno advances and demands, from Satellite radio to DVD playback to MP3 capability, etc... And the latest head unit will give you more enjoyment with their newest features (and more streamlined functions) than the "latest and greatest" speaker set will. ie/ I simply LOVE my Pioneer Nav unit, with the huge readout and performance measurements all on a beautiful 6" LCD screen.
    3. Amps are even more technology proof than speakers: amp technology has pretty much been exhausted when it comes to cars, and other than some newfangled mumbo-jumbo they try to pass off as worth the 30% price increase, the truth is that a truly good amp made 5 years ago will sound as good as a truly good amp purchased today. The only difference may be that the amp is smaller or runs cooler, but the sound is pretty much as good as it gets.

    I've spent a whole lot of money on home audio and car audio over the last 10 years, and this is the wisdom I've come to learn.

    With a given budget, spend 50% on the head unit, 30% on the amp, 20% on the speakers (specifically the obsolete model that was top of the line 3 years ago)
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Thanks! I'll pass the info on to my son. I hope everyone had a great 4th July!
                       : )
  • ocelotevaoceloteva Member Posts: 5
    Sounds like an awesome system. Definitely has me reconsidering the stock stereo.

    A few questions.

    1. How does the unit look installed in the tc's dash? (any huge gaps around the edges? Does it have a custom fit?)
    2. Does the audio cover on the dashboard still close properly?
    3. Is the motorized display on the unit affected by the audio cover in any way?
    4. Where did the folk at Hi Fi install the hideaway box?

  • wolfxwolfx Member Posts: 72
    To answer your questions:
    1. Custom install looked great (Hi Fi Buys did it). The space is actually big enough for a double unit, but that particular Pioneer only takes up half the tC's alotted space, so what the installer did was cut a smoke black plexiglass to fill in the rest of the space, and remove the door completely. Now, the bottom half of the space is the NAV system, and the top half is a dark mirrored plexiglass, and when the screen pops out, it covers the entire space. But I like this much better, and it still looks like it's stock, though a cooler look.
    2. No, had to remove the door cover, because it wouldnt allow the NAV screen to open all the way up. But, again, no biggy. This system looks better without it.
    3. Yes, must be removed.
    4. Hmmm, you know what, I dont know! I never bothered to ask, but I assume it's under the driver's seat. It was a very smooth install. What I love about HiFi Buys is their installs are warrantied for as long as you own the vehicle, and you can tell them exactly how you want things installed too.
  • ghghghgh Member Posts: 11

    I test drove the tC over the holiday weekend. Great car! I test drove the Acura RSX a few weeks ago, and although the RSX is definitely the sportier of the two, the tC has the RSX beat in terms of comfort, versatility, and safety (no side curtain airbags in a RSX). The tC also seemed quicker from a dead stop than the RSX. Of course, I am comparing the AUTO transmission tC to the base, AUTO RSX. [My wife refuses to learn stick, so I didn't bother with the manual RSX]

    I have two questions which the sales person simply could not answer (in fact, the sales people knew less about the car than I did):

    (1) Is anyone familiar with the reliability and track record of the Avensis sedan? I'm concerned because Consumer Reports gave the Scion xA and xB a bad rap in terms of reliability!
    (2) Does the "Scion Security" option include glass break/forced entry/motion alarms? There's no description on the Scion website and the Toyota dealership I went to had no clue.

    Thanks in advance!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,215
    Can't speak to the reliability of the Avenis (and am not sure how it would really translate), but the drivetrain of the tC is basically lifted from the Camry, so it should be reliable. It also isn't a particularly complicated car in modern terms, so there is a bit less to go wrong (especially with electronics).

    I also don't know the details of the security system, but I don't think it is as sophisticated as yo might want (glass breakage, etc.). You might want to find another dealer (or someone at your dealer with a clue) because they should easily be able to tell you the details of the package (probably have a brochure too).

    As to the RSX comparison, yo pretty much nailed it. The Acura is probably sportier, but the tC is much more rfined (ride, quietness etc). Also, much, much more leg room in the backseat in the tC, although the headroom may be a wash. I looked at the RSx and couldn't get my legs in the back, and the tC seems like a limo in comparison.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    How can Consumer Reports comment one way or another on the xA or xB? I don't see how either one has been out (in the US) long enough to judge them for reliability.

    Are you sure that CR has rated the xA/xB?
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,215
    Probably the owners blowing out the neon trim lights when they turn up the bass on the subs too high.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • deucedeuce Member Posts: 13
    Last Wednesday I went to test drive a azure pearl tC w/ AT & side air bags and 6 disc CD changer, which was great, but I wanted to see the other colors before I made up my mind. This past saturday I went to a couple other dealers and saw the silver, red (purple) and the dark blue. Didn't like those nearly enough as the azure. So I went back to the first dealer and they still had the azure one I test drove...drove it off the lot after filling out the papers! Needless to say, I'm very happy. Even drove it 160 miles to the mountains sunday and 160 miles back on monday, very comfortable, and handles the twisty mountain roads very well.
  • ghghghgh Member Posts: 11
    That's weird. A month or two ago, I thought I read something on CR about consumers reporting "less than average" reliability. However, when I went back to find the information at your request, I can't find that quote anymore. So I guess I have to take that back as far as CR. I have read in other fora (e.g., newspaper articles/car reviews) that the Scion marque (sp?) does not rate as highly as Toyota itself in terms of reliability.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,339
    CR does not rate new models until it's had a chance to get feedback from owners via survey. Besides how much of a scardy-cat do you have to be to be seriously concerned about the reliability of a Toyota product?

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • ghghghgh Member Posts: 11
    [Sigh] Reliability ratings won't change my mind -- I'm going to get the car whatever I hear. But it could effect how I finance the car.
  • tahlequahtahlequah Member Posts: 54
    Far out! I seriously considered the Azure blue but was lured away by the ever faithful (that meaning ever faithful to me, not everyone else) black. Which, I might add, I'm still waiting on. Geez - I coulda just driven to another dealer and had it paid for by now! Alas, I continue to wait...........hurmphhhhhh

    In response to someone's query about the security system; I, too, am very curious about it since I couldn't find any concrete information either. Anxious to see responses.

    As for the dealers not having a clue: both dealers, and dealerships, I dealt with knew far less about the tc than I did - and that's saying a lot since I don't know everything about them myself. I found it a little disconcerting considering these things are supposed to be their livelihood. I really wanted to buy from someone who was as enthusiastic about the car as I was - didn't happen. Maybe that's why I'm still waiting for the dang thing show up!
  • subtonesubtone Member Posts: 15
    I was looking at a new (04-05) wrx ... but after testdriving the tc and thinking in my mind what i can do with the extra $4000- $6000k
    i might have to take the tc for another spin.
    I know it's not even close to a wrx, but for $16,500 it's really SWEET. I don't know how i would look in this thing (i'll be 38 this year)
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,215
    I'm 42, and I think I look OK in mine, but what do I know?

    In any case, you probably won't look any silier (or as silly) as in a WRX, which IMO is more youth" looking. The tC, with the exception maybe fo the wheels, is actually somewhat classy looking.

    I am with you on the price equation though. I kept looking at how much more I was considering spending and what I would actually get for the money, and decided on the tC. It's really the difference between owning it outright, and having a car payment.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    The tC comes standard with the engine immobilizer system which means the key can be copied but won't start the car or in other words if the car gets broken into it can't be hard wired and driven away. If you want to add a "noisemaker" alarm go ahead but I wouldn't recommend it.
    Unfortunately as is the norm with Toyota salespersons also, a lot of these folks don't have the initiative to learn their product. Why? I have no idea, If I knew I'd be rich selling the formula to every dealer in the US. I have just started a "training" program at my store where I make up a 25 question test on a particular model and find out who knows what. You guys would be amazed at the results!
                     ; )
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    My son called me a couple of days. Told me complete strangers are coming up to him and ask if his tC is a $25,000.00 dollar car!
                      : )
  • wolfxwolfx Member Posts: 72
    for what you get with the tC, a similarly equipped RSX is not worth $3,000 more. It may look more youthful and sporty (arguable, since I find the tC to be a timeless sporty look, whereas the RSX is already looking cliched in my book), but the RSX is not the value leader in its segment it once was 10 years ago. Cars like the Mazda 3 and Ford Focus, are truly honing in on the "sporty handling" Gen-Y crowd. Sadly enough, this new generation of Civi has completely lost their cult following as it looks just like what an accord would have looked like.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    It means you're running on the so-called "reserve"...
  • gambit293gambit293 Member Posts: 406
    LOL! Like, I'm pretty sure it's 'Rut Roh!'
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,215
    The tC does look and feel (interior quality, noise isolation, etc.) like a much more expensive car, especially considering the "premium" content (17" wheels, panaramic moonroof, etc.). Should be good for future reslae values, since how much can it really depreciate? Looks like Toyota won't be making a ton of them, so hopefully used ones will be in demand (just in case!).

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • ghghghgh Member Posts: 11
    Thanks Mack! Is your dealership in the DC metro area?
  • wolfxwolfx Member Posts: 72
    then the tC's are easily the next hot item on the resale market. At World Toyota, people are just scooping up all the base model xA, xB on the lot, and the only ones available are the $20,000+ models that are totally souped up with all the trimmings.
  • tahlequahtahlequah Member Posts: 54
    I'll be 40 in a few months! Who says you can't be 20 again, huh? I know Toyota's going for a young(er) demo but while I was doing the paperwork for my tc (still isn't here, BTW), there was nothing BUT 40 and 50 somethings looking at it. stickguy is right, you'll likely look and feel more suited to a tc than the wrx (although I secretly longed for one myself.....until I saw the tc!)

    Thanks for the security clues Mack.
  • spektrespektre Member Posts: 80
    Does the no-haggle pricing on the Scion marque allow for more negotiation on the trade-in side? I've heard a few buyers state that they did 'better' trading their car in when buying a Scion. What's your experience say?
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,215
    trade ins is where Saturn dealers covered for MSRP only pricing (along with discount financing). So, since the tC is going for sticker (as opposed to $100 over invoice) there is theoretically more room to bump the trade. Of course, if the car is a hot seller, there is no reason to.

    In my case, I got a better trade in estimate than I expected, to the extent that it wasn't worth trying to sell it privately, but it wasn't because of the Scion pricing ( I believe I could have bought any car and got the same trade value).

    I can't imagine there is a big spread between invoice and MSRP on a tC though, given how cheap (relatively) it is. Toyota dealers must plan on making the real money on the options/upgrades.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • ezshift5ezshift5 Member Posts: 858
    .....on fuel efficiency.

    As my manual shift '00 Solara SE-V6 w/ 215/55's consistently returns 32-36 HWY, I would really appreciate feedback. Mileage importance seems to be akin to a geometric progression....ez
  • hc72hc72 Member Posts: 20
    Just wondering how long is the average wait for a tc. My dealer in Oregon is not helpful at all. He took my deposit about a month ago, got my contact info, and said that the car should be here in ~1 month. It is not here yet.

    They do no even have a car for test drive and do not know when they will get allocation. They will not even give me a time estimate. Even though they took my contact phone and email, I end up calling them since I have not heard anything for 3 weeks.

    Are you having this type of problems? Or this is problem with the dealer. I am thinking of going to another dealer.

    I understand the no hassle dealer experience, but I think that they are taking it too far, it is more like don't care.
  • wolfxwolfx Member Posts: 72
    Options: So, I came back to my dealer today to get my "interior amber lights" installed, and the dealer tells me, "Sorry, but it turns out that Toyota was not expecting the tC to sell so quickly with options, so they do not have any of the options available for dealers to install until after August 1, and not even the ports have these options ready." Hmmmm, sounds like people's interest in this car exceeded their expectations already.

    MPG: My recent trip to the gas station (only my 2nd fill up) proved to be 25MPG, in mixed driving with 70% City and 30% freeway; also, I'm still in my break in period, so I'm driving very conservatively, but let me tell you that I occasionally lapse, and break 3000 RPM shooting out of a turn... WWHOOOooOOOooo!!! I expect the fuel efficiency to improve as I pile on the miles, but 25mpg in mixed driving is way better than what I was getting with my 330Ci.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,215
    I only have 150 miles on mine, so haven't needed to get gas yet. I'm guessing low-mid 20s, with mostly around town (lots of AC time also).

    I don't know what the waits are now, but the ones at my dealer came and went before you knew they were there (I believe everthing on their allocation was spoken for, and ones that weren't taken were sold to someone else the same day).

    For break-in, no need to keep it below 3K (almost impossible anyway with the gearing on the 5 speed). I'm trying to keep it below 4K, but am mixing up my style to give it a good work out. It's probably good for it to stretch the old legs once in a while.

    Finally took a little highway run to see what it was like. Was even better than I expected. Tracked straight as an arrow, very quiet (some, but not excessive, tire noise, very faint wind noise up top I think, and no noise from traffic). Nice ride, firm but compliant. The quietness especially says Lexus.

    The 5 speed does rev a little higher than it really needs to , but frankly you can't hear or feel the engine, so if you didn't look at the tach, you could barely tell it was running. Also moves out real well to pass (65 ->75 happens real fast). Also found myself doing 80 without realizing it. So, overall seems to be a good highway car, but if you spend lots of time at 80+ for long distances, might want something geared more for cruising.

    With AC on and a CD cranking, you can hardly tell you aren't in your living room.

    I have a 200+ mile day trip in a few weeks, so that will be a good chance to really test it out, check mileage, and see how long haul comfort of the seats turns out.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • deucedeuce Member Posts: 13
    I've put 428 miles on it in 5 days. Milage (70% hwy 30% city) average 27 mpg. So far so good!
  • j42j42 Member Posts: 13
    you should open your own dealership. it sounds like a lot of people are having problems with theirs.

    and do you know if there are any other manuals available for the tc? specifically the audio, electrical, and some mechanical things?
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,215
    The stereo comes with it's own owners manual (separate from the main one).

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • j42j42 Member Posts: 13 posts the tc's list price for those interested at

    manual msrp 15950 invoice 15152
    auto msrp 16750 15912
  • wolfxwolfx Member Posts: 72
    amazingly, on the 4 speed auto, a brisk pace allows it to still shift at around 2800
  • tahlequahtahlequah Member Posts: 54
    The same thing is happening to me.....I will have put down a deposit six weeks ago on Saturday and will have officially been waiting for the car two weeks tomorrow! You see, the first initial wait was only a few weeks because they managed to allocate the car I wanted pretty quick. Well, turns out someone dropped the ball big time and the car I wanted was, oddly, still at the port in Seattle when I asked where the **** it was after four weeks.

    In the dealership's defense, I could have bought the first manual car they were allocated (I did technically "buy" the first tc). It arrived only a week or two after I made the deposit. But I didn't want Black Cherry I wanted black so..........I was offered the car (this was after I had put down the deposit like I said) but I held my ground for black. Now I'm paying for that decision.

    As for the options, I had asked for a couple of those to be added but they screwed that up, too. They offered to rework the papers but I was so pissed by then that I thought why bother. Besides, I can add 'em later and since Scion is so far behind on the option availability, I don't think I lost much in the end anyway.

    All in all, if I had it to do over again, I would have bought from Mackabee who, thus far, seems to be the only scion dealer with a clue.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I'll try to answer all your questions and the ones I don't get to tonight I'll get to them tomorrow. In no particular order:

    My dealership is in my profile. I don't want to list it as I have been "reprimanded" by the hosts on other threads for "soliciting business" when I was only trying to inform. I wish I had the money to open up my own store.
    I would find another dealer to get the car from. Seems like they have dropped the ball bigtime if they don't have their first car. Some one is not telling you the truth at that dealership. Every Scion dealer has received their first vehicle. Seems to me it got sold from under you.
    I'll check on the accessories for you guys with my parts department tomorrow and let you know. I believe most are available now with the exception of the supercharger (late fall) and the pedestal spoiler (the one I like to refer to as the clothes pin holder).
    As far as trade ins are concerned, someone already posted the spread between invoice and MSRP and there is no holdback or financial reserve on these vehicles. So there is really not much to play with on a trade. You figure most dealerships are paying their salespersons $100-150.00 per Scion sold so if some money is put on the trade to make the deal it won't leave much profit for the store. Scion is hoping to make it on the accessories. We are seeing an average of $1000.00 spent on accessories like alloy wheels, cup holder illumination, and graphics.
    I'm adding the ground effects package and a spoiler to one of our incoming Indigo ink units as requested by my GM. Maybe once it gets here I'll talk him into putting some lowering springs on it. The "problem" I'm having is with our sales force. They don't seem to want to sell these cars because there is not much money to be made on them. They are not looking at the big picture. These customers (the younger ones) will be back to buy another Scion or maybe a Toyota once they acquire families and recieve promotions, etc, etc,. I guess I'm different. I always look at things in the long run. Well I better get some nap time. See you tomorrow or rather later today.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Well, I talked to our parts department and it was not pretty. Seems that all the accessories that carry over from the xA and xB to the tC are available. The new accessories such as the pedestal spoiler is not available yet and it's on national back order, same goes for the cold air intake, and we didn't look through every new accessory due to lack of time plus I was holding up the line for paying customers. The lip spoiler, ground effects, are available, as are other accessories. The best thing to do is check with your particular dealership to see if they can get what you are looking for. Got six tC's in this morning, God I'm tempted to get one. My wife would go ballistic on me though. I have to wait until September. : )
  • tahlequahtahlequah Member Posts: 54
    my long lost tc finally arrived at the dealership last night and I picked it up this afternoon!

    And, it's black, but what an amazing black it is. When you look closely, you can see a virtual rainbow of colors the effects of which transform the overall color to reflect whatever is nearest and brightest in hue.

    For instance, it was sitting on concrete when I picked it up so it was a very odd shade of deep gray, once I got it home under a blue sky, it reflected strong shades of blue. Not until the sun was nearly down did a deep black set in.

    I spent the better part of the evening sitting in it, going over it with a fine tooth comb and, I gotta tell ya, no regrets!

    The ONLY foible was that they scratched the pseudo-chrome facing between the control panel and the CD player as they were installing the player. The poor dealer, he just looked mortified - I think he was afraid of what I would say after I've waited so, so long. At any rate, I wasn't as upset as they thought I would be - I wasn't happy about it, mind you, but they're getting a replacement face and, in the meantime, I've got the car - that's really all I wanted.

    Outside of that, it is in top notch condition and had a whopping 3 miles on the odometer! It now has an even bigger 12!!! I'll rack up some miles tomorrow.

    They had a model on the lot with 18" wheels. They were checking with the GM for approval on getting it lowered since the 18" jacked it up pretty good. said the tires were $50 more than the wheels (that's per tire). Looked nice but I'm more than happy with the stock 17" and I don't need to lower it!

    One happy camper!!!!
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