Honda S2000



  • njexpressnjexpress Member Posts: 170
    :D I knew I could count on you all :D
    I got the spare donut replaced with the new tire wednesday night and it was a 15 mile ride home from my nearest BJs. Drives like a dream!! No more issues -The spare :sick: WAS the culprit. I couldn't drive the S yesterday - Freezing rain and snow and sleet and slush in NJ all day - Not that I was concerned about handling but, It would break my heart to see my baby dirty, so, that will have to wait until the roads are clean and rid of brine.
    Once again, thanks a bunch to ALL who responded. I guess the moral(s) of the story is (are):
    1) If you got someone driving in front of you like an old lady with a broken hip AND blocking the whole lane while trying to make a left when the light is green, DO NOT GET AGGREVATED ENOUGH to drive the S over the shoulder with a rut even if only 5 mm of your front right wheel is going to come into contact with the rut!!! :( :mad:
    2) Spare donut @ 36 PSI mounted in front definitely pulls to the side.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978

    Glad you got your car fixed and glad the pull was only the doughnut, sorry you have inclement weather now.

    It is times like these I love Houston :shades:

    Cruis'n top down,

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    NJ huh? Gonna see you at the N.E. s2ki Nor'Easter?
  • hondaheadhondahead Member Posts: 10
    habitat1, thx for the tip. A good excuse to take "the long way home"...and to work, for that matter. You're right, wish they'd stated those kinda tips in the manual - dunno why they'd omit good ideas/recommendations like that...unless they're hoping for hoping for repair work in the future, to pad the $$ made on sales. Sorry, the pessimist side just flared up....thx again
  • jkgreer2jkgreer2 Member Posts: 42
    Habitat1: Thank you for the guidance on preferred break-in. I see now why you have suggested purchasing a S2000 that has not been test driven (typically 5-10 min in duration).
    Hondahead: If you have had any dealings with Damson Honda in Huntsville, please advise. I am looking for a N. Alabama or E. TN dealer that will 'deal' on a 06 S2000 during March Madness. Thank you in advance. Best regards to both for your suggestions.
  • hondaheadhondahead Member Posts: 10
    jkgreer2, I bought mine from Damson/Huntsville; there may have been some wiggle room, but didn't want to wait. Didn't want to play the dealer vs dealer game, 'sides, I was looking for a good deal on a new, leftover '05, but couldn't find any dealers wanting to go invoice or less. Bet Edmunds is close or dead-on on invoice, I pd $32,500 to get my baby, +tax, title, etc. They put the press on for add's, like extended warranty, reg maint pkg, etc, I'd check around other dealers in the area to see what they could do... Bottom line, they did me OK
  • hondaheadhondahead Member Posts: 10
    BTW, there's a '06 black S2000 on e-bay right now, think it was LaGrange, GA, with buy-it-now price at $30800.....tempting,,,,
  • njexpressnjexpress Member Posts: 170
    Good for you, MidCow :shades: I guess the S2Ks can be used for all they are worth over there!
    BTW, anythingbutGM, looks like no more Noreasters for now- They are predicting 60's for the w/e. There is going to be a spring preview hopefully and except for an occasional noreaster or two in MAY( :mad: ), the mercury should start rising, So, the hard top is going to go in the basement, wrapped in 2 old comforters and a quilt ;-)
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    :D:D:D Actually, it is a big S2k event happening in Connecticut in August. I figured if you were from Jersey, CT may not be far to go for this awesome event.

    Check it out

    P.S. If the mods don't like me posting this, drop an E-mail and I'll send you the link that way.
  • njexpressnjexpress Member Posts: 170
    :confuse: Oh?:D I totally misunderstood what you said before - The CT nor'Easter Sounds really Cool!! If time permits, I sahll definitely wing it!!
    Thanks for the info!!
  • jkgreer2jkgreer2 Member Posts: 42
    Hondahead: I decided to go with West Side Honda, Knoxville, due to availability, great service & low price. More '06 S2000s are on their lot (silver, dark blue, white & red). Does anyone have a favored web site for ordering plush floor mats, flaming red, to match the red trim interior of a silverstone S2000? Thank you in advance.
  • njexpressnjexpress Member Posts: 170
    Is it okay to get the S2K washed at car washes (with the convertible top in place, of course ;) )?
    Someone probably asked this question already but if they did, I could not find it. I have the hard top and I can always get the car washed with the hard top in place but, It will be a pain installing the hard top just for this, once every month and then going thru' the pain of wrapping the hard top in blankets and comforters once uninstalled etc... Also, I still have to get the conertible top washed occasionally at least..
    I did get some cheapie Blue magic vinyl convertable top cleaner/protectant in one (Could not find 303) at the (un)friendly neighborhood pepboys - They do not carry 303 vinyl top cleaner or protectant.
    Can I get it car washed and spray the Bluemagic cleaner / protectant to keep it preserved? How about Armor All original?
    Any advice would help.
    Cheers!! :D
  • speedmanspeedman Member Posts: 3
    this message is for habitat 1. i like your comment in this forum,just want your opinion on this subject .
    i m thinking to put an intake,which brand do you like or what are good choice.maybe just an air filter,i dont now yet.
    i want to make some minor transformation,cause i want my car to be close to stock.
    I have a 2003 red with 5000 original miles.i was thinking to change it for a 2006 (because it might be the last year)but my 2003 is also the last year of the 2000cc, and i think will become a more classic s2000.
    i had more than 60 cars and nothing beat this car.
    thank you in advance
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Sorry, I know nothing about aftermarket add-ons for the S2000 (or my new 911, for that matter).

    One thing I thought was interesting about the S2000, however, was an article I read a long time ago about models that had been supercharged and had other performance enhancement options added. Not much of a performance gain for the $ invested. The conclusion was that Honda did a pretty good job of eeking most of the power possible out of the 2 liter engine.
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    So to all of you S2000 owners, what is the real deal with the noise in everyday driving? I've read some negative reviews about the engine noise getting tiresome.
    Any comment?
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Everyday driving with the top up will test your tolerance for noise, especially in pre-2004 models with the 2.0 liter 9,000 rpm engine. The 2004+ models with the 2.2 liter 8,000 rpm engine are somewhat quieter.

    But as with much about cars, you need to test drive one yourself with the top up and see how much it affects you. there aren't many alternatives under $50,000 that will gie you as much fun with the top down.
  • hondaheadhondahead Member Posts: 10
    All, I've been driving my 2004+ S2K as often as possible, maybe 3-4 days a week to work, and no issues with me. Of course, it's not my wife's Camry, nor my mom's Caddy, or my Dad's brand-new Oddity. er, I mean Odessey..or however you spell it. Bottom line, I still keep my '87 Accord for crappy weather, which volume-wise is about the same.
    Guess my point is, if you want the experience and feel of a roadster, you shouldn't worry about the noise, unless you've got a cell phone stuck in your ear, in which case, I wish you'd pull off to the side and get out of the way
  • jkgreer2jkgreer2 Member Posts: 42
    As a new owner of a 2006 S2000, there is more noise during driving the S2000 than driving a Honda Accord or Acura TL. So what. I did not buy the car for anything else than pure joy of driving. Remember the old British saying, "A sports car has nothing else on it that does not make the car go faster." This car is flat-out fun to drive. It is as much fun as some motorcycles I've had, but LESS noise, more safety, and as much 'fun factor' as a cycle. If you want a car that does everything near perfect, buy a TL. If you want a 'statement' car, buy a BMW or Benz. If you want pure enjoyment for 2 people, buy a S2000. Regardless of which car is for you, have fun, because life is short.
  • topspin628topspin628 Member Posts: 373
    I would love to hear your "full review" of the car.
    What others did you cross shop against? I am considering the Boxster, Z4 and Vette.

    Did you also drive any of these?
  • jkgreer2jkgreer2 Member Posts: 42
    Compared S2000 to Audi TT (electrical problems, see Edumunds Audi discussions), Nisson Z (mechanical problems, see Edumnds Nisson discussions), Boxster (more expensive & bend over when maintenance reqrd), and Vette (preferred car but $20,000 more). Did not drive Vette or Boxster, due to risk that I would love both. S2000 was best value for $$, assembled in Japan (high quality control), and expect minimal maintenance problems. Hope to have '64 Vette someday, or new one if quality control at KY factory is maintained. Good luck w/right decision for you. JKG
  • njexpressnjexpress Member Posts: 170
    Topspin - Lemme ask you this - Will a parent ever tire of being told "I love yu daddy" by the child (Unless the parent is actually Mommy and is annoyed at being called daddy, of course! ;) )Of course not!!!
    You get to think about noise and any aesthetic displeasures only when the weather is bad and you are not smiling and marvelling at the way the S handles - Other than that, who cares, my friend???
    Happy S2000ing!
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    You didn't ask me, but I'll give you my 2 cents on your list - as well as a couple of others:

    Boxster: At the time I bought my 2002 S2000, the closest competitor in driving dynamics and performance was the Boxster S. When I was back in the market last September, I drove the new Boxster S. Great car, but $60K+ the way I would want it. The new base Boxster is not quite as quick as the S2000, but is a damn nice car with Sport Chrono, PASM, etc. Options which take it up to about $51k. There is no better deal than the Honda S2000, but the Boxster S is the best roadster on the market.

    BMW Z4 - BMW makes the best sports sedans in the market, but the Z4 isn't much better than the old Z3. Too heavy, funky design and interior, and performance that feels like a cross between a sedan and roadster. Maybe it's because BMW thinks it's OK to use a SUV/5-series/3-Series engine in the Z4. Not a bad engine, at all, but not the visceral performance of the S2000 or Boxsters. It was a non-contender for me.

    Corvette - Big, powerful and built like a Chevy. End of discussion for me. Fit and finish are a big factor for me and the S2000 is light years ahead of the Corvette in that department.

    Mercedes SLK 350 (6-speed) - The luxury contender that, with a sport package, was a decent performer. But still not the real sports car roadster I was looking for.

    This last go-around, I ended up going for a 911S Cabriolet that is all the sports car I could ever want, and my kids fit in the back. But if I were recommending a two seater roadster, I'd go for the Boxster/Boxster S if my budget allowed, or the Honda S2000 if it didn't. And, even if your budget allowed the Porsche, the S2000 is still a hell of a good "prudent" choice. I love my 911, but the S2000 was a spectacular car for $32k. This is one Porsche owner who has nothing but respect for the little Honda.
  • estrekaestreka Member Posts: 28
    Check out Discount Tire (

    I can't remember their rating, though, in all honesty, I don't often top 165 mph (electronically limited).
  • estrekaestreka Member Posts: 28
    Actually you'd want the donut on the back. Despite the fact that having a rear mounted donut will wear quickly, you'll want two good tires up front because that's where the majority of your braking and handling are derived.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Actually, it looks like habitat was correct. The donut is undersized so if you put that on the back, the unequal diameters will screw up your rear diff.

    Putting it on the back does apply to most conventional cars though so your logic applies. ;)
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    Hello everyone,

    Long time no post. I am having a great time with my '04 S2000 which has clocked nearly 60,000 miles now. There may not be as many '04+ vehicles with as many miles under their belt. The car has been flawless through three winters, two summers, and with great anticipation for the third. It's taken a couple of minor beatings (got lightly rear-ended, then lightly side-swiped) but repair costs at the local upscale shop actually turned out to be fairly nominal.

    The engine runs great, and really does improve with age.

    I highly recommend this car. It's been a true blast. I'm looking forward to switching to Potenza RE-01R tires for the summer... could be a disaster for all I know but... *shrug*

    Like habitat I've been contemplating the "next step" and Porsche keeps rising to the top among the field of choices. I drove the new Boxster S but just couldn't justify the cost, even with the dramatic discounts. The playing field seems as sparse as it was when I bought my current car... Miata is still what it's always been, everything else is either 60% more expensive for 10% more fun, or 40% heavier for 5% less fun. I find myself wondering if I am best served by staying put until the next gen sports cars from Japan arrive here. Everything German seems heavy, expensive and comparatively unattractive in cabrio forms (versus their coupe counterparts) and everything American still has the interior of a Chevy Cavalier.

    In the meantime, I figure I'll be within spitting distance of 100K miles within a year or so...
  • dominosdominos Member Posts: 5

    The only s2000 in my price range are year 2000 with about 60,000 miles on them.

    Please share your experiences with High mileage s2000's and what is starting to fail or wear and tear problems I will be facing with a high mileage s2000(if anything)

    I'm concerned because these high-revving machines take constant abuse from MOST owners (since they are meant to be driven hard) and i'm concerned with what problems might arise from purchasing a high mileage sport car.

    example: Valve clearance adjustment
    head gasket leaks
    Rear End/Clutch
    Suspension (Ball joints, shocks)
    Water pump, fuel pump, injectors

    I feeling that getting a larger displacement/lower rpm redline car like the 350z will result in less maintenance, yet my heart is in getting an s2000.

    Thank you for your input

    p.s hard to find any problems with these cars via google, but i'm sure when the miles pile up parts need to fail
  • jessie2000jessie2000 Member Posts: 2
    Hi there. I am new to this forum so I thought I would ask for some opinions and advice. I bought a black 2000 S2000 a couple of years ago and just love it.

    1) I seriously need to replace my tires. Should I stick with the stock Potenza S02's or can anyone recommend another high performance tire? I live in Ontario Canada and never drive the car in winter.

    2) My rear windshield is now all cloudy. I have read a few forums but can not get a definitive answer. Can you replace the whole rag top of a 2000 year model with the new glass window tops. I don't necessarily want to do it myself, I just want to know if it can be done. My local Honda dealer had no clue.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,094
    I see you've been a busy boy! You've got almost 60K on your S2K? WOW! I'm glad you're still enjoying it!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • dominosdominos Member Posts: 5
    1) From what I understand the stock Pontenza are great tires.

    2) here a Bulletin on how to maintain and repair your windshield:

    To upgrade your roof, I belive you will need a '02+ top frame and the top itself. There is alot of info on how to do it, just need to search more. I would find it but i'm on my way out. If you dont have any luck let me know.

    btw. How many km's on it and have you had any problems with you car?
    (see above post) :)
  • jessie2000jessie2000 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the info. She has 71k km, and is working well. I have had no serious problems yet. I had to replace my MAP sensor last year, but that was all.
  • dominosdominos Member Posts: 5
    I found the document on how to upgrade a 2000-2001 roof over to a 2002+ roof. What is your email address and i'll send it over.

    Well documented and has pictures for each step, but looks like it's not for the squimish.
  • zack_szack_s Member Posts: 1
    Anything definitive from Honda on the status of the S2000 for 2007 and later. Would something have been released by now if they were going to discontinue the car?
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277

    Looks like color changes are the only thing. S2000 soldiers on for another year. :shades:
  • eliyaleeliyale Member Posts: 13
    I'm new car shopping, and I've got my eye on the S2000. I've done a couple of test drives, and wow, if I get the car, I see speeding tickets on the horizon.

    Here's the question (which I'm sure has been asked before). If I bought an S2000, it would be my only car. Is that advisable? I am single, have a short commute to and from work in very limited traffic. I live in a relatively snow and ice-free area. I don't haul a lot of stuff, so the limited storage space wouldn't bother me. The things that really worry me about having the S2000 as my only car are (a) the noise and (b) the ride quality. Can you live with them as a daily driver?
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  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    "The things that really worry me about having the S2000 as my only car are (a) the noise and (b) the ride quality. Can you live with them as a daily driver?"

    Those are highly subjective questions that only you can answer. I had an S2000 for 2.5 years and 19,000 miles. It was a third car, but got used about 90% of the time the weather and my (lack of) passenger requirements permitted. Porsche makes a big deal about our new 911 (997) being a daily driver, and although it is much more so than previous models, it doesn't have any spare tire. At least the S2000 won't leave you completely stranded.

    Look back for some perspective. 20-30 years ago there were quite a few single persons in their 20's would have Alfa's, Fiat's and MG's as their only car. The S2000 is a heck of a lot more comfortable and infinitely less finnicky than those vehicles of the 70's. Hell, I drove a Datsun B210GX without ari conditioning as my only car from 1978 to 1983 when I was single. The S2000 would have been considered a luxury car by comparison.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    I use my '04 as a daily driver but I do not drive it in the wintertime, or the rain for that matter. But those choices are because I want to keep the salt off, not because the car can't be driven in those conditions.
  • dennis21dennis21 Member Posts: 3
    I use my 05 as a daily driver. Snow is not a concern since I live in Alabama. My commute is 25 miles each way. To me the issues you mention fall into an acceptable level for me. I enjoy driving this car.
  • kwinterkwinter Member Posts: 5
    :) I have read just about every post on this forum about the S2000 and particularly those regarding the noise. I did get to drive a 2004 used at a dealers but didn't get to take it over 40 mph due to the location. The handling was fantastic and the sound at 40 mph wasn't annoying. The salesperson was annoying. When does the noise concern kick in? Over 70 mph? I saw one post where someone states how noisy the old MG's and TR3's were back in the day. Is the noise of a S2000 so much more annoying than those cars? I had a TR3 and MG and they never phased me. Someone stated their ears were ringing after a day trip? Also, oil changes. There was a comment made by someone that said one reason folks don't want this as a daily commute is because the avg person doesn't want to check their oil each time they get in the car. What's up with that? Does this car go through oil like water? The most expense for this car on a yearly basis is the tires/oil? I have a deposit on a 2006 which is being delivered in June. Silverstone/black interior Anyone have any comments on the latest features of the 2006?
  • jkgreer2jkgreer2 Member Posts: 42
    Purchased a 2006 Silverstone/red interior recently. As most posts have stated, the S2000 is an outstanding sports car. The noise issue is all relative. Do you prefer to drive a TL or Lexus? Then the S2000 provides more noise, with most of noise from engine, which is entertaining in my view. Rest of noise is wind noise, which is why I bought a convertible sports car. The engine & wind noises are no more than prior British sports cars, and probably less (memory tends to fade). Those cars were fun because they made you part of the environment you are driving through, v. isolation (Lexus). I have no problems with oil usuage. I do not remember that issue in the one year that I have read about the S2000. I do not check the oil. It's a nearly maintenance free Honda. The only expense that you can expect in 1st year is normal oil changes (every 2,500-3,000 mi.). In the 2nd or 3rd yr, depending on miles driven, the replacement tires will be somewhat expensive, which is a price of owning a sports car. Few people own true sports cars due to trade-offs (grin factor for driving enjoyment v. engine maintenance & wind noise, if convertible). For 2006, the up/down procedure for top takes a minute, if that much time. Enjoy the car when it arrives. It is the best priced true sports car that you will find. Have fun, life is short.
  • kwinterkwinter Member Posts: 5
    Thanks for the response. The oil since it is synthetic does that run you around $60.00 an oil change? Looking forward to getting it. Do you have any trouble with traction when driving yours in the rain or having wet highways? :)
  • jdevensjdevens Member Posts: 3
    Is '06 the final year for the S2000?
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I had the "noisier" 2002 model with the 2.0 liter 9,000 rpm engine. Noise was not an issue for me, but was for my wife when the top was up at highway speeds. On the highway, the 2002 was running at about 4,000 rpm at 70 mph. I suspect if I had to sit in the passenger seat most of the time, it might be a little annoying for me too.

    I believe the 2006, with the 2.2 liter / 8,000 rpm engine is running at something like 3,500 rpm at 70 mph in 6th gear. If so, it should be noticably quieter than my old 2002 for highway cruising. The engine still emits a shrill scream once V-tech kicks in under hard acceleration (6,000 rpm+), but that's part of the visceral fun of the S2000.

    Oil consumption on my S2000 was minimal. I only recall adding 1/2 quart once during the initial break-in. In 19,000 miles I had the oil changed 4 times (every 4,000-4,500 miles / 6 months). My typical oil change cost was $20 + the cost of 5-6 quarts of Mobil 1 which the dealer let me purchase and bring in. By comparison, an oil change in my 911 requires 9 1/2 quarts of Mobil 1 and the dealer labor and filter charge is $200+. As indicated by others, the S2000 is a very low maintenance car. My total maintenance costs over 2.5 years and 19,000 miles was under $350, including the 4 oil changes, a 7,500 mile service and a 15,000 mile service. The front tires had another 30%+ tread life left in them, the rears were nearing replacement.

    On tires, I highly recommend Tire Rack for the best prices and selection. I've used them for my TL 6-speed. According to their web site, you should be able to get a good set of four for the S2000 at around $700-800, which is not that expensive for a true sports car. Again, for comparison, a set of four for my 911 S (19" wheels and 30/35 series tires) will run me close to $1,500. One thing I will warn you is that wet weather performance in a medium to heavy rain goes down considerably as the tires near the end of their tread life. True of every car, but especially the lightweight S2000.

    The S2000 is a hell of a good sports car. For the purchase price, low maintenance cost and exceptional build quality, it is also an extraordinarily prudent purchase.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Don't run synthetic until you are past the 10k mile mark. The conventional Dino oil is essential for proper break in.

    True, if you VTEC your motor often, you may find it burns a bit of oil. But that kind of scenario shows up more if you track her. In my time of ownership, my oil level has been constant and I have never had to add any.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    "Don't run synthetic until you are past the 10k mile mark. The conventional Dino oil is essential for proper break in."

    Where did you hear/read that? I may be wrong, but I thought my 2002 S2000 shipped with Mobil 1 from the factory. I am absolutely certain that I was advised to use Mobil 1 for all oil changes, which I had done every 4,000 +/- miles.

    Given that all Porsches, BMW M cars, AMG's and most other high end / high performance engines ship out with Mobil 1, I'd be very surprised to hear that dino oil is "essential for proper break in" on an S2000. But I'm willing to consider the source of this recommendation.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    It is supposedly noted in the owners manual. I learned through the S2k club that it is good for allowing the cylinders to "Seat" themselves properly within the cylinder walls. I've also read that it nets a few extra horsepower when engine is fully broken in.

    I am not a mechanic so I can't back up these claims for sure but I have been following the recommendation.
  • kixokixo Member Posts: 35
    I am debating between a new S2000 and a Miata. I am a bit of traditionalist and prefer analog gauges - the more the better.

    I am not sure I will like or get used to the S2K's digital gauges, especially the speedo.

    Also, I prefer an oil pressure gauge, rather than an idiot light.

    Do other owners wish for an analog cluster with more comprehensive gauges, or do you just learn to love digital and drive merrily on?
  • toydrivertoydriver Member Posts: 227
    Quite the contrary!
    The digital tachometer adds to the fun of driving the S2000, especially when you reach the VTEC levels above 6000rpm. This is where the car changes personality and shows you a whole new driving experience. The rapidly progressing digital display that flashes back down and then back up as you "row through the gears" gives you an immediate read on the engine speed.
    The digital speedo took no time for me to get use to.
    As far as the oil pressure gauge; I guess it might be nice to have one, but the Honda engine really doesn't use any oil (unless it's been abused). If I really want to know about the engine oil, I check the dipstick which tells me more about the oil than reading from a gauge.

    I haven't driven the new Miata, and I'm sure it handles very well. However, the S2000 is really a "wolf in sheeps clothing". You won't be disappointed if you choose the S!

    To me the digital gauge cluster is something that I enjoy and would miss if I didn't have it.
    I wouldn't base my decision between the S2000 and Miata on the gauge cluster, if I were you.

    You should make your decision after driving the two cars and comparing how you "enjoy the journey" !
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I'll call toydriver and raise it.

    The Miata and S2000 are two completely different cars. The Miata is a fun, lightweight roadster in the vein of a modern MGB. The S2000 is a serious performance sports car, that is far more comparable to the Boxster S than the Miata in driving experience, notwithstanding it's relatively low price.

    If you want an oil pressure guage and analog tach / spedometer, you can go for the aforementioned Boxster or Boxster S at around $47K and $57k respectively. But if you get the Miata, you have purchased a dramatically different car, IMO.
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