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BTW, I've learned some stuff from the tire store and even a whole lot more from this forum. I've just come across this forum yesterday and have found it to be very useful so far. It's not for people to whine, according to a certain someone, but for people w/ something in common to share their experiences and information so that we're all made aware of what's going on. Sure, people have different opinions, but it's a free country as long as you don't force your own opinion on others, right? You read what people write and make decisions for yourself. And, it made me feel better being able to vent my problem. So, thanks everyone for keeping it going.
So you got the idea, definitely!
Yes, you are not alone here, and that is what drives me crazy sometime, as I disagree with both points- Pirelli's are not crappy, and Volvo did not put inferior products on their cars, not intentionally anyway.
The problem, as I see it, is in Volvo's attempt to push the "performance and sportivness" envelope to the extend, to compete as much as they could with BMW in those areas.
So, they have chosen tires from "high performance" categories (if you browsed the tirerack already). And those tires by definition have low thread wear indexes, being made off the soft compound.
So, just accept this, and on a new round adjust the choice of tires to your driving style.
Just hope my dealership won't be too resistant about replacing mine.
Do you have a link for me to pull up the tire replacement program so that I'll have something in writing for the dealer?
Your help is appreciated, scooterz.
XC90 Problem solved.
You should (have your friend) check the lemon laws in your state. For NY/CT, if a vehicle has been off the road for 30 calendar days, or has been back to the shop for the same problem 4 times, then the lemon laws apply and they would be entitled to a new or replacement vehicle from the dealership. It is
Lemon Laws don't involve the dealership.
They only involve the motor co.
I will let you know, when and if their tolerance will wear out :-).
In my experience, good service department makes little electrical (or other) gremlins very tolerable. You just drop your car in the morning and pick it up after work.
Strange when I think back on it now, right when I got my XC90 two other people with 1-2 year old volvo sedan's said that they were having lots of electrical and nuisance problems with their cars. Oh well. I did actually own a 440 GLT in 1990, and that car had similar problems with the windows, sunroof, and radio, but it drove just fine and much better than any similar smaller hatchback at the time. I should have learned my lesson then, but I will definitely never buy another Volvo.
The service manager actually said that if I had given them a 10 out of 10 rating in the Volvo telephone survey, he would not have charged me for the alignment. I gave them an above average rating because, at that time, I believed they fixed the problem. Unfortunately, the service advisor initially tried telling me to go to a Pirelli dealer. I had to argue hard and involve the service manager. So, a 10 rating was out of the question.
Now, at 30K, the second set of tires are cupped again, exactly the same as the first set. The tires are extremely noisy, howling like off-road tires. The car is going to the dealer for the 30K service soon. We'll see what happens.
I've been meticulous about the tire pressure since the car was new and the car is driven gently, mostly highway. There is plenty of tread left. In fact, except for the cupping problem, there is little tire wear. The brakes are still original, additional evidence that the car is not driven hard.
It is not acceptable to have an expensive car that eats a set of tires every 9 months. My high-mileage 11 year old second car is quieter and smoother and its not a model known as quiet, even when new.
Does anyone have any insight into whether the problem is the vehicle or the tires? Based on what I've read, it seems to be these particular tires on this vehicle. If the tires alone are the problem, they are essentially a defective part and should be replaced with something better. If the vehicle is the problem, the car needs to be fixed and the tires should be replaced. Any suggestion for better replacement tires?
How can I get the dealer to address this? I've already paid $300 and the problem is not resolved. I've been patient up to this point, but now I'm open any approach, even litigation.
This vehicle has had numerous other issues, beginning the day I took delivery. At this point, my patience is exhausted. Why is it so difficult to get a warrantied car fixed? I like the car, but I bought a new car specifically to avoid problems. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
What is that 11 year old car? Did you drive SUVs before?
One thing I can tell you now - $300 for an alignment is a total rip-off? Where did you get your alignments before? Why didn't you use the facilities you already trust?
My second car is a '95 Accord 4-cyl. I've owned many types and brands of vehicles over the years, from Toyotas to Porsches. This is not a first-time SUV owner being unaware that it drives differently than a car.
The dealer did the alignment in conjunction with the tire replacement. I wouldn't pay $300 for an alignment. I paid $140 for the pro-rated tire replacement, $90 (which is high) for the alignment. I just looked at the work order and it was $245, not $300.
Other issues:
Three attempts to fix Pirelli tire issue.
Check engine light.
Climate control only blows hot air.
Climate control - one vent blows hot, one cold.
Driver's side window/lock/mirror controls inoperable
Driver's side power lock motor broken
Parking brake not stopping vehicle from rolling.
I'm pretty sure the vehicle was out of service for enough days to have qualified for the NJ lemon law, had I chosen to go that route.
I was more fortunate, when I have read and believed the postings here and on other forums about poor performance of Pirellies. So I have chosen optional 18" Michelins and have gotten about 32K miles out of them.
However, I have eventually had to replace them and I have looked then for the tires with the hardiest compound and most warranted thread life (highest thread wear index).
While Michelin and Pirelli have this index in 300 low 400 range, there are tires from Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza and Continental CrossContact LX. They both have wear index in high 600 - low 700 (more than twice of your Pirelli), and warranted for 65K miles. I have selected Conties based on price ($100 for 17" and $127 for 18" at tirerack.com) and very happy with them - all season highway, decent dry, wet and snow handling, rather quiet and have been barely "broken-in" after 12K. I can see them lasted for 50-60K miles or more.
Another point I would like to make that the proper and frequent alignment is very important. My wife (and maybe I as well) has hit curbs not making wide enough turns several times and that moves the wheel out of alignment, so one of the Michelins had very uneven wear (rear right one), and was prematurely replaced at 25K.
At 32K I have decided to replace all 4, and still have 2 18" Michelins in my garage - one almost new, and another one - from the original batch with about half of thread still there.
In any case, we have did not have excessive tire-wear problems with the 17" michelin "syclone 4x4" tires that volvo factory put on our 2004 xc90 . we replaced them at about 25k miles i think, with some Japanese brand tires and they are doing fine at about 42k now. Toyo i think. Or is it Yokohama. Well, one of those.
On the other hand, if you are getting twice the miles out of Conti tires with double the treadwear rating, maybe there does happen to be some consistency between treadwear ratings for different brands.
(See bellow)
So, even if I would not be absolutely certain that the tire with the rating 600 should last twice as long as the tire with the 300 rating, it will last much longer under the same driving conditions.
And 65K warranty for both Bridge and Conti speak for itself.
As I said, I consider that I've got a decent life from the stock Michelins, and I personally, did not experience any excessive or uneven wear (but on the wheel that was obviously knocked out of alignment), but I will welcome any extra mileage.
I stay with Conties on my S80 for many years and miles, and usually get about 50K out of low-end ContiContact. I hope that more durable CrossContact will last as much or longer on heavier and more demanding (AWD) XC90.
"Treadwear Grades
UTQG Treadwear Grades are based on actual road use in which the test tire is run in a vehicle convoy along with standardized Course Monitoring Tires. The vehicle repeatedly runs a prescribed 400-mile test loop in West Texas for a total of 7,200 miles. The vehicle can have its alignment set, air pressure checked and tires rotated every 800 miles. The test tire's and the Monitoring Tire's wear are measured during and at the conclusion of the test. The tire manufacturers then assign a Treadwear Grade based on the observed wear rates. The Course Monitoring Tire is assigned a grade and the test tire receives a grade indicating its relative treadwear. A grade of 100 would indicate that the tire tread would last as long as the test tire, 200 would indicate the tread would last twice as long, 300 would indicate three times as long, etc.
The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful."
Pirelli has come out w/ a new tire, the Scorpion STR which seems to be working out a whole lot better from a treadwear standpoint.
That was what I heard. However, when I asked my dealer in Southern California, the service department manager told me there was none. I guessed that one might have to make a scene out of the tire problem in order to get free (or pro-rated)replacement.
Phl1, about the hot air in climate control, my 2005 2.5T once blew hot air from driver's side and cold air from passenger side, which of course rendered the a/c unusable. It was hot summer and the hot air still came out from one side even when I set the temperature all the way down to lowest. I was about to go to dealer, but I thought I gave it another try by setting the temp. setting to the highest, which sent hot air out from both sides. I then adjusted temp setting down. The problem was mysteriously fixed. I may just be lucky, but it did save me a trip to dealership.
The post you "replied" to is three years old. Unfortunately, the link I gave there is archived (i.e. temporarily unavailable). The musty odor you detect is caused by accumulation of moisture near your air conditioners condensor (meaning it's a good environment for bacteria/fungus or whatever).
I suggest turning off your air conditioning for 2 or 3 minutes before turning your engine off. That gives the condensor some time to dry up a little bit and often provides relief from the problem. If that doesn't help, your dealer/mechanic can spray peroxide or some other suitable chemical/disinfectant near the condensor and conduits.
Good luck!
tidester, host
I don't have one but what I read here is mostly positive!
tidester, host
:lemon: So, the question is: Does Volvo stand behind their vehicles or not? The answer seems to be -- Buy Lexus
but indeed, 10k miles on the factory SUV tires is not reasonable unless maybe it's an SRT8 or Cayenne Turbo!
if the tsb only allows for pro-rated new tires in some cases, then maybe that fits your case. i understand the tsb does allow for free replacement tires in some cases so maybe you have a good case to have the factory reimburse you the $250 - maybe contact the volvo corporate reps?
if the vehicle or dealer annoys you, maybe trade it and surely avoid that dealer in the future.
the pirelli tire xc90 problem been known for at least two years. the dealer certainly should have handled it however the factory/HQ authorized. you might want to get a copy of the tsb and read it yourself: google alldata ?
If the Pirelli tire problem has been known for at least two years, why did Volvo continue to use them?
- maybe they had a big inventory of these tires.
- maybe they did the math and determined it was cheaper to keep shipping the pirellis and then pay out to the small percentage of owners who complain loudly.
- maybe they had a contract with Pirelli which required them to ship a certain number/% of XC90s with poor-treadwear Pirelli tires.
I've had several strangers approach me, asking how do I like my XC90. I just show them the photocopies of my service reports that I keep in the car. There jaws drops and they are astonished with problems that I've had. After looking at the paperwork and hearing what I had to say, I'm sure they were no longer interested in a Volvo XC90.
:lemon:
I assume that from there another Dealer will buy this car and sell it to consumer. The consumer will think that they are getting a $50K car, 3 yr old, for a great deal. Unfortunately they don't know what they are getting themselves into.
A warning to all owners, if you hear any suspicious clicks, anything, get off the road. Don't know why Volvo is not making more of this safety issue than they are, are they waiting for someone to get killed or cause a major accident. Typical Ford attitude. This is my 32nd Volvo, we are a 2 per family for years. This is my first Volvo SUV and loved it until now even with all its problems, new tires at 20,000 mi, tie rod assembly replacement, sway bars, etc., etc. Only keep a Volvo under warranty, we trade every three years. Wouldn't want the repair cost on this one.
LG
The problem continued till one morning we were packed up and on the way to Paris when the sunroof opened up by itself and would not shut. By the way, it was raining. They had to replace the control module for the sunroof.
Thought the problem was resolved...not a chance for my lemon. I just got it to America and the same thing happened!! Just love how the quality of Volvo is so piss poor!
Believe it or not the Honda Pilot had less wind noise at 70mph than the XC90 along with 5 star crash test scores all the way around. And the Pilot is noted to be a very reliable vehicle.
Now I'm not worrying whats going to happen next and how much is it going to cost. Good bye XC90..........good riddance !