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Comments
Sorry; I must disagree. Recall that my initial statement mentioned an Adult Passenger in the front seat :surprise: Acura allows FULL access to their Nav system after pushing the lawyer button. I am responsible enough to know when to pull over or not. BUT, when my wife is with me she should be able to handle navigator duties w/o my having to pull off to the side of the road!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:
I fully acknowledge that my first hand experience is now 30 years out of date, but I believe the basic premise remains. The car companies are highly sophistacted in their choice of tires. They don't just pick the cheapest (especially on an upmarket vehicle like the M35). And they have state of the art quality control systems in place to make sure they are getting what they expect.
I believe that replacing a tire that was carefully chosen by a vehicle's engineering staff after a significant amount of professional testing with a random choice based on a reputation of a company and previous experience with other tires is somewhat a coin toss. It might be good or it might not. I'll keep the original equipment tires in place on my new M35.
The day would come when your wife wasn't with you and you'd wish to find a point of interest and you'd do it because you know that you can watch the road and navigate at the same time. We all know that with sufficient speed it only takes a moment of distraction to cause an accident.
I generally drive well within the speed limits and rarely undertake activities that distract from the primary function, driving. I'm also willing to admit that I have felt there were times that the traffic flow was slow enough that I could easily follow the programming procedures required for POI while driving my Benz. I'm smart enough to know better yet have done it. I'm sure that others do it too.
With the almost complete availability of navigation voice commands is it really that inconvenient to prevent the temptation of a driver to focus on the navi screen instead of driving?
Whattya want, great taste or less filling? We want it all, is the answer.
We want a great handling tire that works for four seasons and lasts as long as we have payments (you get my meaning even if you pay cash, I presume), is quiet, safe and costs less than $200 per tire. Oh yea, we want a good looking tire (both tread and sidewall) too.
The tire Holy Grail is what we want.
In an effort to appease Americans (primarily as far as I can tell), Ultra High Performance All Season tires were developed by several manufacturers. Yokohama even went so far as to create such a tire that they call the dB and dB2 (for decibel) to demonstrate one of its features (it is whisper quiet when new).
We just don't like to change our tires/wheels to match the season -- so we end up with a compromise tire. For the most part, I have no problem with these tires.
Until or unless we are willing to change our tires, we will be stuck with these compromise tires -- but frankly they are pretty good.
The day would come when your wife wasn't with you and you'd wish to find a point of interest and you'd do it because you know that you can watch the road and navigate at the same time. We all know that with sufficient speed it only takes a moment of distraction to cause an accident.
Alas we must agree to disagree. BTW this discussion was never intended to debate the legality of the issue, but to discuss why doesn't Infiniti allow full access. Acura has allowed full access (and I love it) since at least 2001. To my knowledge Acura owners are no more (or less) capable or safety conscience that others makes' owners. Also to my knowledge Acura has not been subject to Navi Programming accident lawsuits.
Acura allows it; Infiniti could if they wanted to. Buyers want it and its legal so whats the issue. :confuse:
I see this all the time at work. The least efficient referring physicians (regarding the ordering of x-rays, CT scans, etc--mostly as a CYA, it seems.) create the standard of care to which all the other (more efficient) physicians must then subscribe. As this then becomes the standard of care, it no longer can be claimed to be "defensive" medicine. And the cost of healthcare continues to climb.
No offense to attorneys out there (especially you, LawdawgMI).
There are other non tire related examples where the cost of replacing the part of recall would cost more then paying for a few lives lost in the event the car was rear ended and blew up in flames.
Point being their are better qualitive options available aftermarket. Manufacturing practices have drastically changed over recent years let alone a 1/4 century span, would you agree?
Of course, compared to the Infiniti system, the Mercedes Nav isn't much to talk about, but at least, as a paying customer, I have the right to use my car as I see fit.
Plus, we know that they have a passenger occupancy sensor, tie the damn thing to that, and at least allow a passenger to access the system.
I say this after changing the OEM tires on my Mercedes E500 last year with off the shelf tires from the same MFG and having been completely shocked at the difference between the tires my car came with and the same tire off the shelf.
First, I would like to thank everyone who's posted or responded in the last 3 months. Your comments and replies helped make my purchase decision easier.
I'd like to get some feedback from other owners. I've had my M35 Sport with Journey/Tech for a week now, and I've noticed several things.
1. I sometimes smell burnt rubber after I park my M. This normally happens after I've been driving really fast. Has anyone else experienced this?
2. My gas mileage is very low. The onboard systems show that I am getting about 13 mpg. Is this typical?
Your gas mileage sounds out of line based on my experience. I have the M45 sport, 5000 miles now. I average 19.0 mpg with a combination of city and highway driving. The highway is commuting in houston so it is stop and go. On the open road I drive around 80 mpg, this car seem to want to run that speed. But if crusing at 70 or so it looks like it is running about 23 or so mpg based upon the instantaneous measure on board. I am seeing the run to empty mileage as off by about 1 to 2 gallons worth of mileage based upon the on board system and old fashioned manual measurement.
I hope you are enjoying yours as much as I am mine.
Well stated. We're getting a bit less life out of OE tires because they're designed for a better ride ... that means softer rubber. That also translates into better traction. Back in the 70's I always had OE tires replace with Firestone 500's ... feeling OE tires weren't up to the best and safest standards. In 1990 for the first time I had a tire dealer tell me not to waste my money ... that the 'Stones on my new car were as good as anything he had to offer. I might feel differently if I lived in the snowbelt or pushed my car to its limit with regularity, but I've not had a tire failure in > 25 years. When I replace tires because of wear, sure ... I look for the best I can find based on researching the ratings ... otherwise it's immaterial to me what comes out of the factory.
By the way, this is the first car that I've ever "loved." It makes a simple trip to the store a blast, and when I walk up to it in a parking lot, I can't get over how GREAT it looks. I had to drive my Acura TL Type S the other day, and boy, what a disappointment. The M45 get's better every day.
As for the Nav system safeguards, you guys may not like it, and you can blame the lawyers, lawsuits, "frivilous claims", etc. but cell phones and other distractive devices such as NAV screens in cars continue to exact an enormous toll each year in terms of traffic fatalities and catastrophic injuries. I am a relatively heavy user of such devices, as we all are, and I'm sure each of us can think of an occasion or two where the distraction of our toys resulted in a close call. I recall the thread about enabling the rear-view camera to work in forward gear and I just shook my head. The potential for distraction and injury far outweighs whatever novelty is derived from bypassing that important safety feature. I also recall the thread about enabling the NAV monitor to view DVDs. It is disturbing to me, at a minimum, to realize that my family and I are on the road with people who do this.
Unfortunately, it often takes a tragedy close to home for many people to recognize the purpose of safeguards like the ones everyone is complaining about on this forum, as well as how and why those safeguards came to exist in the first place.
Also doc, from your post I surmise that your knowledge of the legal system is probably about on par with my knowledge of the practice of radiology. You nobly state, on behalf of those poor, beleaguered corporate defendants everywhere, that "winning a suit costs big bucks". That is true--but losing a product liability lawsuit for plaintiffs costs even bigger bucks--often $200-400k, as well as cost of defense sanctions--and such costs are borne by parties far less able to bear their burden. Along with the built-in hurdles imposed by the legal system against non-meritorious claims, the biggest safeguard against unfounded lawsuits is cost. No attorney in his/her right mind would pursue an unfounded lawsuit against an automaker--the financial downside to losing such a case is ruinous.
Anyway, doc, that's enough. You stick to medicine, I'll stick to law. For an excellent and enlightening read on how the system really works, I would encourage all to read the book "A Civil Action". Seeing the movie is no substitute.
It is my understanding that at least some states have laws that folks are arguing against here. This is not the place for that. We're here to deal with the car the way it is - and we are most assuredly not here to figure out how to break the law. (If there are any questions about that, please review the Membership Agreement which is linked on the left side of the page.)
So let's skip all the societal analysis and the attempts to circumvent the legalities - those things are not topical and not appropriate here.
Thanks.
No, because instead they're suing for righteous cases like the McDonalds coffee that was too hot. Seriously, the disclaimer on the Infiniti's and other nav. screen is just but one symbol of the litigiousness of our society fostered by the mind set of the legal profession. To be fair, the insurance industry like trial attorneys are motivated by their monetary aspirations. Often ignored is individual personal responsibility.
(Sorry Pat but since you didn't delete lawdawgmi's post, at least a partial rebuttal for that legal slant was in order.)
Okay? Yeah ... okay.
Please get back to our subject - thanks.
HELP!! I really love the M but the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) looms large!!..and not only that, did I mention the STS is a great deal?
Thanks.
:confuse:
Boy, I can relate to that. I got an M45 w/tech and journey on Memorial Day and I look for any excuse to drive it. I also have a 2002 Acura Tl Type S that will be lease returned in a couple of weeks, and when I go from the M to the TL, it almost feels like I just got into a crappy car. I have been happy with the TL, but what a difference an M makes! This is definitely the best car I have ever owned.
"Close" is in the eye of the beholder. I drove the STS and it's nice ... and I was in a Caddy at the time and had a marvelous and trouble free experience with it. But for this old guy the STS had something missing ... I much preferred the OLD STS ... to me it lacked something intangible and I couldn't warm up to it. The prices were so close money wasn't a factor. Then I started to think about the Q45 I had in the 90's, the better service from Infiniti (loaner car, washed, etc), and the flat out more enjoyable driving experience I had in the M-car and that cinched the deal. And every morning when I strap it on and head out to the office I get this great big smile on my face. (I do miss my OnStar, however; the Bluetooth phone is a decent proxy and IMO an essential safety feature.) Is the M-car perfect? Of course not. There are little annoying issues (passenger seat, inability to start the car if the key fob gets lost) that have been mentioned here and I'm willing to bet they will not be issues in the next iteration of the car.
I guess that's a long-winded way to say on balance I believe the M is a significant step up from any Caddy. For what it's worth.
There may be laws regarding live video displays viewable from the driver's seat, but that is a different issue.
In fact, there is no law in any state requiring "nag" screens or the disabling of NAV features-- if that were true, the many models that don't employ this would be illegal in those states. This is purely an artifice suggested by the legal advisors to some manufacturers. It seems to me to be a legitimate topic of discussion whether there may be better, less drastic, ways to limit liability (and potential accidents). For example, I agree with the concept of tying screen functions to the presence of the weight of a body in the passenger seat.
If discussion of these concepts is not permitted here, we will lose the opportunity to come up with suggestions on how to improve our cars, and the ability to let the car companies know how unhappy their customers are with the current arrangements.
Here's a real life example: Before leaving on a trip, I had my son program our destination into the NAV of our Lexus LS. In the process, he managed to set the option for "avoid all highways", except we definitely wanted to take the highway. So every time we went past an exit on the highway, it tried to tell us to get off! And there was nothing we could do about it except either turn off the system (in which case we wouldn't know how to get where we were going) or put up with the wrong information continually coming at us, or pull off on the side of the highway to be able to reset the destination. Of course, there is always a significant risk whenever you stop along the side of a highway-- I guess we could have sued Lexus if we had been hit then! The bottom line: it would have been much safer for the front seat passenger to be able to reprogram the NAV than for us to have to pull over and do it, or for me as the driver to be continually distracted by the NAV lady telling me to take the next exit!
"I just bought a 55k luxury sedan and no one knows what it is or is impressed." I guess he can read the minds of everyone who saw his car.
"The valet parked my car in the back with the Hondas. In front are the BMW's, Benz's and Lexus' " Well, I may be in the minority here but I never let those valets come near my wheels. I'd rather walk 2 blocks than have them touch it. But even if I let my vehicle be parked, who the heck is going to be standing around wondering which 2 cars will be next to it? Who cares?
I'm still undecided between the RL and M35 (leaning strongly toward the M now); my wife prefers the looks of the M over the RL (both interior and exterior). Not only that she likes the Sport wheels over the base.
I finally chose the STS over the M. The M had the best reviews, and quite honestly, it has the most toys for the money. Excellent car and fun to drive. But picking a car based on most toys for the money could well put you in a new Avalon - without the performance of course. The STS had something the M could not provide me - a step away from the traditional jelly bean shape of most cars regardless of price into a crisp, bold, edgy - and yes - masculine American style. I can't visualize an all- American boy like Steve McQueen stepping out of an RL or A6. Perhaps a BMW or M, but definitely an STS. The fact the STS is an excellent American product sealed the deal for me. I always advice others to choose what they like - you're the one that has to drive it everyday. But the STS has great style, an interior that just won the "Interior of the Year" award, great ride and performance and true comfort. The only down side is the way it is optioned, forcing you into features you may not want. My only regret is I didn't load up with more options. My dealer gives the same pickup and delivery service as Lexus or a free Caddy loaner. Both the dealer and Cadillac Division have bent over backwards to assure my satisfaction - I even had a Cadillac engineer quiz me about my thoughts on interior quality, braking, climate conditioning, squeaks or rattles,and fit and finish. I think they are trying hard to produce a top product and J D Powers latest ratings show they are successful.
In my opinion, you won't go wrong with either the STS or the M.
You'll just have to let the "other factors" sway you.
You can have it go down on the left or right or not move at all depending simply on where you keep the slider switch.
That slider switch, (which is ordinarily used to choose which mirror, left or right, you're going to adjust for normal use), will cause the right mirror to go down (in reverse) if you have the slider on the right; will cause the left mirror to go down if you have the slider on the left; and will cause the mirrors to not move at all, if the slider is in the center position.
Even cooler, you can adjust the downward angle for each mirror and have a left-right pair of those reverse settings associated which each memory button. SO it will automatically go down to a position that you like, when you're driving, and automatically do the same for your wife's best settings, when she's driving. You only need to set it once.
Pete
Pete
You know, a great many of those reviews come from people who could never touch this car.
Pete
Like I did in high school, I'm trying to solve for X. I figure that 20 miles will be enough to have them move the car around when they need to, but still insure that I won't be getting a demo car.
Am I right, or is that too low?
It's very powerful, but when I was at low speed and accelerated it hard, maybe gas pedal was half way down, it down shifted not as smoothly as I'd espected, or as some magazine described.
I happened to notice that the inserts for the front seat climate control are not a tight fit; they can be easily moved around a bit with my fingers.
Also noticed that the other M's rear door wood piece does not have the finish all the way to where it meets the other material. It is missing just a little but still noticeable when I get close. I checked a few other M's, and found none. Finished area is darker.
Then I went to see Lexus new GS. I'd say overall attention to detail is better than M.
Not as much of an issue with a lease (although Caddy can't match Infiniti's residual) but a HUGE issue with a purchase. Buy a Seville for $50K and in a year it's on the used car lot for an asking price of $28K (or less if > 15K miles).
Funny. Guy must be living in Dogpatch, USA. We just returned from dinner at Tucson's ***** steak house ... pulled in surrounded by Benz, Carrera 2, Lexus ... and after dinner guess whose car was safely parked next to the valet stand with the rest in "general parking".
When I had my Q (1994) the same thing happened at a fancy joint in San Diego.
The Lexi, MB's, Porsche's, etc were elsewere.
If you read the lexus forums on the web, you'll see more complaints about fit and finish on the GS than you'll find on the M forums. The GS nav screen has parts that are misaligned (there's no fix for it yet), and there are other complaints as well.
The M has better performance and handling, vastly better nav, great voice control (which the gs doesn't), the best rear view monitor in the business, (the gs doesn't), an iPod aux input (the gs doesn't), plays mp3 CDs (the gs doesn't), plays DVD audio (the gs doesn't), has 5.1 surround (the GS doesn't), much more passenger room, and instantly accessible controls that are more intuitive and more readable. I could go on, really. (BTW, I'm not an infiniti bigot, as I've owned many lexus LS's)
The M has beaten the GS in every comparison by the big three (R&T MT C&D), by usa today, and by the detroit news (there happen to be a lot of car people in Detroit.)
For me, the handling, nav with voice, passenger room, monitor, ipod compatibility and console layout, each really make a huge difference.
Pete
I've noticed the same thing and what I've determined is that the on board computer does not include the "reserve", 2 gallons or something like that, in it's miles to empty computation. Apparently it's like the clock that is set ahead five minutes to make sure that we are not late to our next destination.