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Comments
Thing is, the Civic Hybrid doesn't give dramatically better fuel consumption figures in the real world of everyday driving over a conventional Civic EX. And neither of these cars has the practical interior room and trunk storage that highlights the new Prius. It's the combination of performance, economy, reliability, and UTILITY that sets aside the Prius as unique. For some people who don't need the extra room, I suppose a Civic Hybrid can seem like a rational substitute, but I would take the regular Civic EX [and the heavy discounting that goes with it] any day. The Prius simply has a well-rounded set of virtues that is very difficult to duplicate elsewhere in the current list of automotive choices....and thus the problem with supply/demand.
I thought people were waiting up to 6 months for these?
> ever use stealth mode in real-world
Since stealth mode is AUTOMATICALLY ENGAGED, there is no real question.
When the power demand drops below 10kW, the engine shuts off all by itself.
JOHN
As for someone admitting when he or she is wrong, that advice applies to everyone, doesn't it?
Could you please give us the message number in which someone stated, "The CVT is not a transmission so it will never fail." Since you found the exact quote, I assume you know the source. I recall discussions about CVTs and relilability, but I don't recall this particular statement you quoted. And I wouldn't believe it if I saw it--any mechanical device can fail.
You asked what "stealth" is and how it would be used in real world driving. I drive in stealth everyday that I drive my 2004 Prius. Once I get up to a cruising speed whether that be under 42 mph or not, if I let up on the gas and place my foot back on the pedal gently, the car will shut off the gas engine and engage the electric motor via the battery. I can cruise along at a constant speed for as long as traffic will allow on relatively flat roads or on a downhill slope. At that time the CPU screen indicates the gas engine is off and I am getting 99.9 mpg. I have done this on the highway as well as city streets at all different speeds. My car has 1800 miles on it and this tank of gas has 181 miles and is averaging 51 mpg according to the CPU screen. Those 181 miles are mostly from short trips of 20 minutes in town. The weather ranged from 30's up to 60 with most of it in the 40's. I think as the weather gets warmer I will get even better mileage. For two days when it was in the 60's I was getting ~54 mpg. Sorry I can't be specific about the inner workings of the car as I am not an engineer - just a "soccer mom" who loves her Prius. It's a great family car and I have no regrets buying it over the Accord and Camry which I also considered. The car has plenty of get up and go when merging onto the highway and for steep mountain roads in Colorado. I also think that I would value those opinions from people who ACTUALLY OWN THE PRIUS rather than from those that don't. Just sign me - Not a lemming.
-NO personal attacks. If you don't like what someone else has to say - AGREE TO DISAGREE.
-If you can't discuss the strong AND weak points of the Prius OR want to discuss another vehicle - take it to another discussion.
A handful of posts have been removed from the last 10 as the above two items were not adhered to.
Good luck
Rich (510)
Saveing gas. Perhaps someone could try pulling the day-time running lights fuse, pulling out the middle breaking light and pulling the cabin lights and see what the mileage difference is. I think it might add 2% to mileage per gallon.
Also to save on airconditioning costs one might consider painting the roof white in summer with some cool-coat mixed in so the roof has about 92% wide spectrum radiation of a black body and reflected radiation between white paint and a mirror.
Any ideas on installing some covers on the under side of the Prius to reduce air firction.
ONe could also suggest removing mats and trunk liners to reduce weight.
I'm not sure (I live in California) but is it leagal to drive with outside rear view mirrors? Can one in a prius rubber neck easily and see other vehicles? Or are the pillars in the way?
I would think in california, the liscence plates should me made of light weight plastic to reduce vehicle weight. The raised lettering I think would cause more air friction on the front plate.
Question, say the Prius runs out of gas. How far can one drive on batteries alone?
One magazine (can't recall) has 123 feet. One had somewhere in the 130's. My seat of the pants tells me it's VERY good and similar to the Mercedes C320 I just turned back on lease return. Also consider the tires that the Prius comes with. I upgraded my tires and definitely feel a difference in handling/ride and braking as well.
Recent reports indicated the ES330 fared better than the Camry in certain tests because side-curtain air bags are standard.
There are some rumors which sound like wishful thinking such as a future GS430 hybrid with like a 350 HP ICE and a 100 HP electric motor and similar types of specs.
If you want to intentionally SHORTEN the life of your battery-pack and risk DAMAGE to other components by overheating, you can squeeze anywhere from 6 to 8 miles.
You will get a warning loooooooooong before you run out of gas and a rather blatant "DANGER" message when you actually do. So the sudden change in feel will be of no surprise. Pulling over to a safe spot and stopping is the better choice.
JOHN
Thanks,
Mike
Geogirl made a great post geogirl Jan 18, 2004 7:44pm so you will want to ask about the final result.
Also talleyid Jan 19, 2004 10:40am should help.
Anywho, after 197 miles the Multi-Display is now showing 50.2 MPG. Yeah!
JOHN
I am on a list for the Prius - Blue with #9 option package. In reading over the posts I have a few questions that I hope someone will answer for me.
#1). The Prius MPG rating is 55 combined yet it seems that the overall "average" experienced by many owners seems to be around 45 mpg? True?
#2). Any help on the bluetooth phone? Don't most phone companies have compatible phones?
#3). What''s with the fuel gauge issue that says you are running low when there is really many gallons left? I guess that the computer system doesn't have a miles to go till empty screen? Just raw consumption?
#4). Wait for the 2005 or am I safe to assume that since this is a new body style that any changes will be nil?
Thanks for much for the info!
David
Predicting what will be changed on the '05 is a guessing game, but it's pretty safe to assume there won't be significant changes given 1) Toyota rarely makes major changes in Year 2 of a new design, and 2) the cars are selling great as it is, so why go to the expense of making changes? There could be little changes like new colors, maybe a factory leather option, maybe even a height-adjustable driver's seat--but that is all speculation on my part. The leather and height adjustable driver's seat are available in other countries, so it wouldn't take much for Toyota to bring them to the U.S.
> that the overall "average" experienced by many owners
> seems to be around 45 mpg? True?
Emphasize the word "seems"
Your observation is correct; however, you need to keep in mind that winter mileage is always lower than summer. And to amplify the effect, most Prius haven't even completed break-in yet.
Last summer, my classic Prius delivered 50 MPG. During the winter, it was 40 MPG. So the 45 MPG average should be fairly obvious.
My current average is 45 MPG, all of which was driven during the winter with a brand new Prius. That means the expectation of 55 MPG during the summer is quite realistic (for me, anyway).
> #2). Any help on the bluetooth phone?
There's a webpage on my website setup to gather bluetooth info as we acquire. It's still pretty early with the technology. In fact, Sprint started offering their first Bluetooth phone just a few weeks ago.
I'm very pleased with the particular Bluetooth phone I have. In fact, now I crave the technology for other devices. I'd pay dearly for a Bluetooth headphones at work. Eliminating a cord while also gaining connection convenience is pretty sweet. The range is drastically better too. For the phone system in Prius, it's 33 feet. For more extreme Bluetooth configurations, you can get a full 100 feet. And it transmits through walls well too.
> #3). What's with the fuel gauge issue that says you
> are running low
Too many classic owners pushed distance past 500 miles, then drove using only electricity after running out of gas... which harms the battery-pack. So Toyota decided to trigger the warnings sooner with the 2004. That reduced the "apparent" range of the vehicle to just that of a traditional vehicle. Plan on 9 gallons being your maximum non-emergency tank capacity. That provides this range based on the MPG shown on the Multi-Display (which is automatically reset for you each time you fill the tank):
40 MPG = 360 miles
41 MPG = 369 miles
42 MPG = 378 miles
43 MPG = 387 miles
44 MPG = 396 miles
45 MPG = 405 miles
46 MPG = 414 miles
47 MPG = 423 miles
48 MPG = 432 miles
49 MPG = 441 miles
50 MPG = 450 miles
51 MPG = 459 miles
52 MPG = 468 miles
53 MPG = 477 miles
54 MPG = 486 miles
55 MPG = 495 miles
> #4). Wait for the 2005 or...
New package configurations are expected.
Toyota has hinted at new features coming sometime too.
And of course, each year there has been one or two body color changes. So that trend will likely continue.
JOHN
Can you use chains on the Prius? I looked at an Insight when they first came out and you can't use chains on them. I live in an area that has chain requirements or AWD in the winter.
Does anyone have one with lots of miles on it? I anticipate putting 45,000 miles on a year (I have 150,000 miles on a 3 year, 5 month old vehicle). I'm somewhat concerned that it would go out of warranty very quickly, and what if I have to replace the battery pack?
What type of acceleration does one have going up fairly steep grades at freeway speeds? I have a 4 banger 5 speed Tacoma that I have to downshift to 4th to keep it at 70 mph on part of my commute. I don't want to have to crawl up the grades with the 18 wheelers, like a couple of Metros I see.
Thanks for helping me make my decision.
It has been done numerous times over the past few years. Chains have been proven to not be a problem of any kind.
> Does anyone have one with lots of miles on it?
There are only a handful in North America that have already exceeded 150,000 miles. None have needed a battery-pack replacement yet. That's not enough data to draw a conclusion, but it is at least reassuring to know.
> what if I have to replace the battery pack?
High volume production hasn't kicked in yet. Used ones recovered from wrecks are a bit scarce still too. So if you had to replace one today, it wouldn't been cheap. 3 years from now it should be notably less expensive.
Just by watching the Multi-Display alone, you'll see that the battery-pack isn't drawn from as much as you think it is. An exhausted pack would mostly result in diminished efficiency, not a power loss since most electricity is actually taken from the engine feeding the generator.
> What type of acceleration does one have going up fairly
> steep grades at freeway speeds?
The best I've been able to do was 77 MPH up a 6% grade with my Classic (2001) Prius. I couldn't go any faster because the road was too crowded!
The exciting part about hill climbing is that you typically end up with more electricity available at the top than you do at the bottom. The reason is that high RPM is an efficient state for the engine. That creates more thrust than what is needed for the climb itself. So the remaining is routed to the generator for electricity creation.
Most mountain climbing, especially for the 2004, is a non-issue. No big deal at all. Extreme situations, like the Eisenhauer tunnel, will force you to slow down to 60'ish near the top. But going down sure is fun. The extra electricity generated from the decline allows you to zip along at highway speeds without the gas engine even running.
JOHN
I am on a list for the Prius - Blue with #9 option package. In reading over the posts I have a few questions that I hope someone will answer for me.
#1). The Prius MPG rating is 55 combined yet it seems that the overall "average" experienced by many owners seems to be around 45 mpg? True?
#2). Any help on the bluetooth phone? Don't most phone companies have compatible phones?
#3). What''s with the fuel gauge issue that says you are running low when there is really many gallons left? I guess that the computer system doesn't have a miles to go till empty screen? Just raw consumption?
#4). Wait for the 2005 or am I safe to assume that since this is a new body style that any changes will be nil?
Thanks for much for the info!
David
So, do you that have a Prius typically refuel at around 9 gallons empty? - I guess the computer doesn't give you a "miles to empty" readout? Does a light go on around that time or do you use the gauge and run it down to the last "e" bar and then fill up? When do you know that you have emptied the tank?
I drive a Chevy Trailblazer that seems to have range(according to the computer) of 320-340 miles between tanks without overall mpg of 18 per. It will take 13-16 gallons most time.
If I have to refill about every 9 gallons @ 45 MPG I get 405 miles in range. I must be missing something. The range increase is about 27% (320 vs. 405), but the increase in MPG is 150% (18 vs. 45)!
Thanks again!
David
Around 8 gallons, the last bar on the gauge begins flashing, you get a warning chime, and an "Add Fuel" message appears on the Multi-Display.
So for the typical driver, that means "on the way home from your commute fill the tank back up". You can easily drive another 20 to 30 miles without any concern whatsoever. It still keeps you under the suggested 9 gallon refill. And even when you reach that point, you still have gas left... though judging how much is difficult due to the bladder (for reducing evaporative emissions).
JOHN
Are the seats comfortable for long periods of time? My daily commute is an hour and a half one way, and my Tacoma is very uncomfortable for such a long time. About once a month we visit relatives that live about 5 hours away. That's the main reason why I'm in the market for a new vehicle (the Taco is still in otherwise excellent shape).
That's a personal preference, so there's no "one size fits all answer".
But for me, I can easily sit through several non-stop hours of driving in those seats without any complaints from the butt or legs.
JOHN
And of course, my Prius wasn't the only one at play. One the way to the mall, a Tideland 2004 pulled up behind me. In the parking lot, I spotted a Blue Classic. Then when leaving, fortune favored me. I had the lucky opportunity of stopping right next to a brand new Silver 2004. So I honked and waved. The driver went nuts when she noticed I was also in a Silver 2004. It was great! Then once back on the highway, a White Classic zoomed by.
JOHN
Regarding the phone, if you get one that is compatible, do you just turn it on and the Prius software recognizes wirelessly so that you can go hands-free? Is there a speaker that picks up your voice?
Thanks,
David
I waited since October 8 for this. Very pleased right now.
Eric
Illinois
The "not detected" message is rather handy. It saved me once. Since I knew I had the phone with me, I immediately became suspicious. And it paid off too. The Prius system had actually indirectly informed me that the battery in the phone was dead. So I just plugged it in on that drive. That's much better than finding out later, when I'm away from a charging source.
The microphone for the phone is a mystery to me still. It is very well placed, where ever the heck it is.
The speaker for the phone is the one by the driver, on the door. When you get a call, the audio system is automatically halted. That sudden silence is replaced by the phone conversion. The Multi-Display automatically switches over to show caller-id info and provide a few phone controls.
JOHN
Tip: At least at this dealership in Minnesota, it seems almost no one wants Salsa Red Pearl. Almost every order ahead of mine has "no red." I thought about it, but decided the Salsa Red is a little darker red than I like. Otherwise I could have moved up to the top of the package 3 list if a red Prius shows up.
Do the front seats recline?
I guess there are 2 12v outlets. Where are they located? I use a wired radar detector and use the other for an i-pod in my current car. Do they power off when you turn off the car? I had to have them re- wired in my current car to do so.
Lastly, has anyone had a phone hard-wired in their Prius. With the battery and all, is the installation pretty straight forward? What I am thinking is to get a bluetooth phone but get it set up so it will recharge while I drive and not use one of the outlets.
Any suggestions?
Thanks so much,
David
The dealer at the time estimated 8-12 weeks. I have been following this board since then, so I am aware of the backlog situation. I finally called the dealer yesterday for the first time since ordering. I told him I was aware of the backlog, but could he possibly give me any kind of current realistic estimate of delivery? He told me he would consult with his manager, and call me back in ten minutes. Sure enough, the call came and he told me they were expecting a package nine in Silver to arrive between the 12th and 15th of March. I asked how much longer would I have to wait for a white one, to which he answered maybe as long as nine months! He said I was on their list for three months, and wanted to know if he should "put my name on the silver one".
I thought about it for a moment, and said yes, go ahead. He promised to call me the day before the car arrives, as I would like to see it actually come off the truck.
Later in the day, yesterday, I happened to go by another Toyota dealer, and saw a silver one in front of his lot. I stopped and took a really good long look at it, and decided I could accept the silver color, but reluctantly. In my opinion, the white really stands out and looks sharp, while the silver looks so common and generic. I know that if I get the silver one, I would have regrets every time I come across a white one. However, if what the dealer says is true, nine more months would be totally unacceptable to wait, and I would settle for silver. I feel that since I am ordering ahead,
and paying full price, I should be able to get my
choice. Anybody care to comment?
Yes, and it results in an internal carrying capacity length of a little of 8 feet!
> there are 2 12v outlets. Where are they located?
One is near the front-passenger's knee, the other is inside of the storage area within the center armrest.
> Do they power off when you turn off the car?
Yup.
> has anyone had a phone hard-wired in their Prius.
With batteries that last so long nowadays and the Bluetooth ability to connect, no one has ever asked. Why not just use an auxilury battery instead? The portable air-pumps are cheap and provide an decent amount of electricty via a standard 12v connector.
JOHN
Also you would be in a better position to get a Prius IF you were more open on color choices. I understand your reluctance with silver, but what about another color? I have the salsa red which I love, but if that is not your taste, have you considered the tideland? I saw that one and think it looks very sharp! Much better than what I thought it would look like from the small color sample. It is more of a stately gray with green undertones which looks slightly different depending on the light. Anyway, that's my 2 cents and I hope you get your Prius soon as every owner I have run into or on line absolutely loves theirs. Good luck.
I went and got some info, regarding the Bluetooth phones. I also went to Toyota.letstalk.com for more info. They offer various plans, etc. Do I have to go through Toyota?
My company will buy the appropriate phone probably the Sony T608,610 or 616, and I'll get rid of my current phone. Will that work?
Thanks - David
Yup!
And there's nothing you need to do externally beyond getting the phone itself activated, via any cell provider. The ability to connect is nothing but a wireless protocol, available for if you want to use it... kind of like a headset.
JOHN
Also wondering about acceleration and fuel economy. I notice when accelerating very gradually to a set speed from a stop, the consumption bar dips below the 25 mpg hash mark. When accelerating at a faster rate to the set speed, the consumption bar obviously dips further than the first condition, but not that much more (sorry, I like looking at the pretty green bar instead of the numeric readout so I don't know the actual differences in mpg). Since it takes longer to get up to the set speed at the gradual rate than the faster rate, are you saving that much more gas with the feather-foot than with the lead-foot (provided you're not in stop-and-go traffic)? Jus' wonderin'.
Thanks
P.S. I'm averaging 56.4 mpg over 189 miles on the current tank of gas so I must be doing something right
No fancy foot work required. When you lift your foot off the accelerator-pedal, the regenerator automatically kicks in. That's a very simple way of informing the system you no longer want to accelerate or glide, you instead want to slow down. Lightly pressing on the brake will first use just regenerator, but it's difficult to tell when the other braking joins in.
The Classic Prius had an aftermarket indicator light available to show you when the brake pads & shoes actually kicked in. The supplier stated he's working on a 2004 version now.
> wondering about acceleration and fuel economy
You've discovered that BRISK acceleration (that's fast but not aggressive) is in fact more efficient than slow acceleration. In other words, don't baby the car. Drive like most people normally do.
JOHN
I went and got some info, regarding the Bluetooth phones. I also went to Toyota.letstalk.com for more info. They offer various plans, etc. Do I have to go through Toyota?
My company will buy the appropriate phone probably the Sony T608,610 or 616, and I'll get rid of my current phone. Will that work?
Thanks - David
The coverage here in New England is not wonderful, my choices being Cingular or AT&T Wireless (although if the merger is approved between the two coverage could be improving). I picked AT&T.
For the moment, Verizon coverage is better, and my company cell is still Verizon - they use CDMA vice GSM.
To and from work I forward my work desk phone to the Sony so that if I get a call enroute, at least it will be hands off in the Prius. How well this works will depend then on the GSM reception while on the road, and sometimes, according to my callers, it is not good. If GSM coverage is good, then the Prius's Bluetooth connection is superb.
I plan to keep the Sony phone, even with the occassional GSM inconveniences. I hope this helps anyone who is trying to decide on using a Bluetooth phone with their Prius who hasn't already set it up. Cheers!
Nelson
If not, is this also true if the phone supports number dialing (such as the Sony-Ericsson T608)?
And if not, how do you enter numbers in voice menus that are present at virtually every business site including the Toyota dealer?
Thanks,
David
P.S.
We are on the waiting list...waiting...and waiting...and waiting...
If not, is this also true if the phone supports number dialing (such as the Sony-Ericsson T608)?
And if not, how do you enter numbers in voice menus that are present at virtually every business site including the Toyota dealer?
Thanks,
David
P.S.
We are on the waiting list...waiting...and waiting...and waiting...
___From another Prius forum: US MSRP Going up! (nick is mrv):
OK, I was directly sent some Toyota memos this time, very good source.
These letters are marked as DRAFT copies, so the wording may change by the
time that they go out.
My summary: Current base MSRP on the Prius is $19,995 + DPH fee. The
MSRP is now going up by $300, to $20,295 + DPH fee. If you are in the
CIRS Toyota database system through your dealer BEFORE March 10th, you
will get $300 cash back when you get your Prius, so call your dealer if you
aren't in the system yet!
begin Draft letter #1:
April 5, 2004
Dear XYZ Customer,
Thank you for expressing interest in the 2004 Toyota Prius with Hybrid
Synergy Drive. Toyota is aware that you are waiting patiently for the
arrival of Prius at your dealerships. We are working hard to minimize
your wait.
<bold> This letter is to notify you that the manufacturer's suggested
retail price (MSRP) for the 2004 model year Prius was increased by $300,
so that the starting MSRP for Prius is now $20,295, excluding Delivery,
Processing, and Handling Fee and taxes, license, title and available or
regionally required equipment. However, our records show that you have
requested a 2004 Prius with your dealership prior to March 10. To show
our commitment to Prius, Toyota would like to offer you, as a matter of
goodwill and customer satisfaction, a goodwill payment of $300 if you take
delivery of a 2004 Prius with the increased MSRP. </bold>
Please note that in order for you to receive this payment, you must
purchased a 2004 Toyota Prius with the increased MSRP. This offer is not
transferable to any other person or vehicle. Please also be aware that
your dealership will not be able to apply this amount to the purchase
price at the time of the transaction. Toyota Motor Sales will mail a
check in the amount of $300 to the name and address of the registered
owner of the vehicle within approximately 6-8 weeks after your[sic] take
delivery of your new 2004 Prius.
Your dealer will be able to provide the most up-to-date information
regarding this special program. If you have additional questions that
your dealer cannot answer, please contact Toyota's National Customer
Experience Center at 1-800-331-4331.
Your excitement for Prius motivates us in advancing vehicle technology.
Thank you for this continued support.
Sincerely,
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A
end Draft letter #1
begin Draft letter #2:
April 5, 2004
Dear XYZ Customer,
Recently you received confirmation of your intent in purchasing the 2004
Prius. We thank you for your continued interest and find it necessary to
advise you of a recent change in pricing of the 2004 Prius.
<bold>The manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) for the 2004
model year Prius increased by $300, so that the starting, base MSRP
for Prius is now $20,295, excluding Delivery, Processing and
Handling Fee and taxes, license, title and available or regionally
required equipment. We wanted you to be aware of this change, so
it did not come as a surprise when you take delivery of your
vehicle.</bold>
As you may have heard, Prius was named Motor Trend 2004 Car of the Year
and Prius received the North American Car of the Year honor at the Detroit
International Auto Show. These are great awards and symbolize the
industry's recognition of the breakthrough technology and continued value
that Prius offers.
Your dealer will be able to provide the most up-to-date status regarding
vehicle arrivals. If you have any additional questions that your dealer
cannot answer, please contact Toyota's National Customer Experience Center
at 1-800-331-4331.
Your excitement for Prius motivates us in advancing vehicle technology.
Thank you for this continued support.
Sincerely,
Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A
end Draft letter #2
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes