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thanks
thanks
400h will have 270hp(40hp more) than RX330. It will be more responsive due to drive-by-wire and instant electric boost. If they use electric A/C like Prius, you can run A/C with engine off or heater with full blast for more than 3 days in a tank of gas. Great for camping etc...
Electronically controlled CVT is the smoothest transmission available in any cars(except Prius). The irony is that it does not even have a transmission. The electric motor is acting as a transmission.
400h will also get about 36mpg city and 31mpg on highway. There are many more advantages. I might add to the list later. BTW, You can check out my previous posts if you have not.
Dennis
financially:
For 1 year, you save about 50 gallons of gas with 400h over 330. That worth about $100 dollars. 400h would cost you $4000 premium and there is a waiting list. That means you cannot get discount. Regular 330 can get a couple thousands off MSRP. The difference is almost $6000. Now, Federal gives you $2000 credit. The remaining question is whether the added performance and other advantages worth $4000 to you.
To each his/her own.
Yep, the big problem of the Touareg is weight. However, the diesel engines that are more common over here offer a big torque advantage over the gas engines.
The Touareg I-5 automatic weighs in at a maximum of 2,510 kilos, and the official acceleration figure from 0-100 kph (a bit beyond 60 mph) is 12.9 seconds. You'll have to be really good at power reading to get through a Tolstoy in that time ;-)
The advantage is that the highway consumption is 8.4 litres of diesel per 100 kilometres - which means nearly 740 miles between fill-ups.
I know that you generally frown upon diesel engines in the States. Over here it's rather different - mostly for economical reasons, of course, but the diesel torque can make up for the lack of horsepower: Three years ago I changed my ML320 for a ML270CDI. Nominally it has "only" 190 horsepower compared to the 320's 218 hp, but it has lots more torque, making driving far mor relaxed.
And precisely torque is where the hybrids seem to excel - thus my interes for the LX400h.
Cheers,
Birger
I am also interested in the 400h, but have heard comments about a transmission "problem" in the current 330 model. They described it as a "hesitancy" as if they gears could not make up their minds as to which gear to switch to, when, for example, overtaking. I asked my dealer yesterday about it but the salesperson, not surprisingly, flatly denied there was a problem. Any advice would be much appreciated. Jason
``The next 18 months to two years is really going to tell the tale for Americans and hybrids,'' said Lindsay Brooke, senior manager for market assessment at CSM Worldwide, an auto industry forecasting firm in Farmington Hills, Mich.
That's because a dozen or so hybrids will hit the market, and they'll bring the technology to sport-utilities, trucks and luxury vehicles.
Brooke said hybrid versions of full-size trucks from General Motors and SUVs from Ford, GM and Toyota will ``get more of a critical mass going.'' Larger vehicles will help demonstrate the benefits of hybrid more effectively, too, he said, as small cars tend to get better gas mileage anyway.
Honda will add its third hybrid, a gas-electric version of its Honda Accord V-6 sedan, later this year. Toyota is expected to offer hybrid versions of many of its vehicles, including the Camry sedan, the No. 1 car in America, in the not-too-distant future.<i/>
Looks like Toyota is noncommital about when the Camry Hybrid would come out. Camry is already the number one seller and Prius is also a big seller. So why upset the production and sales momentum of either?
It's interesting that the article refers to a dozen new hybrid models in the next 18-24 months. Maybe when Toyota comes out with a Camry Hybrid, they will also do a hybrid version of its sister model, the Lexus ES330.
Prices notwithstanding, there should be healthy demand for luxury hybrids.
I've read about that problem with automatic transmission affecting some Toyota and some Lexus models where a car at stop light would race out for no reason. Don't worry because, 400h will have totally different transmission.
Dennis
Thanks. Much appreciated. Jason
The gearing issue you described about RX330 will not be an issue because technically 400h will not have any transmission. That is the beauty of Hybrid Synergy Drive. The car will drive and feel like a Contiously Variable Transmission. HSD achieve the same CVT effect by tightly integrating electric motors and the internal combustion engine. The drivetrain will not need to shift gears but instead, the motor will spin forward or backward. Everything is computer controlled and will be super ultra smooth. If you are curious how much the computer has control, it performs torque control very two milliseconds. Toyota/Lexus calls it E-CVT but there is no hardware that is dedicated as a role for transmission. The CVT function is achieved from the Synergy between the dual drivetrain.
Dennis
I have had a deposit on the RX 400h for a couple of months. Any idea when Lexus will announce pricing on the hybrid?
Thanks.
From what I have read on RX330 board, the said transmission problem was a software problem with early version of RX330. That problem has been fixed and should not exist anymore. Just to contribute what I know.
Can you give us an idea of heat disapation for electric and gas engine in 400H? Seems to me there would be a tremendous amount of heat transfer/buildup specifically for the electrical engine. What is the method used to cool gas and electric engines?
My thanks. Don
The Daily Auto Insider
Wednesday, May 5, 2004
May 2004
Hybrid vehicles represent a potential new danger to rescue workers because of high-voltage circuitry that may require some precise cutting to save a victim trapped in a crash, The Associated Press reported.
Hybrids, which draw power from a combination of internal combustion and electric motors, carry batteries producing as much as 500 volts, more than 40 times the strength of a standard battery.
Even though manufacturers have published guides showing where the electric components are on their models, and use bright orange high-power cables, there are concerns about situations where the battery, ignition and other points are inaccessible. First responders are taught to disconnect the battery and turn off the key immediately before cutting into a car, but that's not always possible, the story said.
Manufacturers say they will continue to update rescue personnel but they also contend that hybrids are safe, the story said.
Let's start with the Internal Combustion Engine(ICE). Since Atkinson cycle engine is more thermal efficient than Otto cycle engine, it does not generate as much heat. Electric motors are not used at maximum power most of the time. Situations such as accelerating from a stop, passing, merging onto highway, etc., are just short burst. Even those Prius with EV button will only use less than 10KW to drive on electricity alone. So, I don't see a lot of heat generation from electric motor(s) during "normal" driving.
I will assume that 400h cooling system will be similar to Prius HSD. From what I know(could be wrong), Prius does not have a radiator to cool down the dual powertrain. The heater core acts as a radiator. Heater core takes hot coolant from the drivetrain and delivers heat either into the cabin or outside the chassis. In additional, when you turn off HSD, an electric pump will pump and store 3 liters of hot coolant into stainless-steel vacuum bottle to provide heat for the next cold start. This speeds up warm up process of the engine, catalyst, and heater and result in lower engine wear and tear, fuel consumption, emission, and extra comfort.
I heard that 400h and Highlander hybrid will offer a package for towing. It is basically more powerful cooling system to handle full towing capacity of the Hybrid Synergy Drive.
Dennis
Power supply from the battery is cut off by the circuit breaker even before the airbags deploy. The power cables are under the body frame and not inside the doors. Take a look, the lighted line is suppose to be the electric wire.
Dennis
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car16.htm
it is a planetary gearing instead of conventional transmission gearing, but this is a basic fact - to move wheels, there has to be a transmission.
Planetary gearset with six permanently engaged moving parts itself is not a transmission. It simply splits and combines power, therefore Power Split Device(PSD). It is the Synergy between electric motors and Internal Combustion Engine that creates continuous variable power output.
To clarify what I said, HSD does not have a dedicated hardware for the role of transmission. The whole drivetrain work together to drive the car go faster or slower.
BTW, you don't need a transmission to move the wheels. The car will just drive in a limited speed. Transmission was invented as a "work around" for that limitation. HSD combines RPM of electric motors and ICE to achieve 0 mph to 102 mph in Prius(400h will go faster) without a traditional transmission. If a drivetrain can drive the car between 0-102mph, why would you need a transmission in the first place? That's what I meant when I said HSD does not have a transmission. Toyota used ECVT to explain us how the car drives from transmission perspective. It does not mean HSD has a transmission.
Dennis
As I see our domestic auto industry chasing "hydrogen" fuel, I note hydrogen "fuel" is totally dependent upon fossel fuels...so in the scheme of things, where's the beef?
The Japanese...using existing technology and better design/application, turn traditionally unused energy into "fuel" and actually store the energy electronically for recapture. And, they are selling cars with this more efficient technology...at a profit.
Thank you for admitting that the car has a transmission. What I hear you saying is that it is more complicated than a normal transmission, because it has more components. So in place of the transmission of an ICE car, you have a "drivetrain".
And your post indicates that the planetary gearset is always moving with permanently engaged gears. Read the word "gears"; exactly what a normal transmission has. And a normal transmission has permanently moving gears any time the car is in motion.
>>BTW, you don't need a transmission to move the wheels. The car will just drive in a limited speed. <<
I also point out that even if the gears don't change, the car has a transmission. It transmits the power of the engine to the wheels. Weather it changes gear ratios is another story. I recall a 1950's model car that had only one gear, and a really torquey engine. That car still had a "transmission".
I agree that the HSD is a different sort of cat, but the car still has a transmission, just not a conventional one.
Dennis
The domestics have hybrids "close" now, although more for big suv's, with the opinion that it makes more sense to go from 15mpg to 25 than from 30 to 50 ( more actual gallons of gas saved in the first case ). But they are undoubtedly behind in this application, probably because of the price difference between gas here and in other parts of the world ( motivation ).
Also, i don't know why you claim that they are selling these vehicles at a profit--every article on the topic specifies that there are losing money now.
RE Tax Deduction. That $1500 dollars is therefore worth between 300 and 550 dollars, which you can deduct off the price of the HSD technology. This changes the equation of weather or not the extra MPG will will cover the higher cost of the hybrid.
Toyota recovered the loss and made profit from the last generation Prius. From Toyota's track record, they will repeat the same thing since it is easier second time especially when higher price hybrids are coming out. For Toyota, producing hybrids are not much more expensive as you think.
Dennis
I want to come to an agreement but you are still stating from transmission perspective. Transmission in an automobile is well defined. A transmission changes drive ratio from the engine to the wheel to get variable power output.
Dual powertrain like hybrid synergy drive can output variable power by design therefore, does not need extra transmission. I can agree by saying that HSD functions as if it has a transmission. Or HSD car drives like a car with CVT transmission.
Dennis
- First Responders would not be knowledgeable enough (or be too scared) to rescue you. Yes, Toyota may have a pyro on the battery (nothing new, my BMW has it for 7 years), the question is do ALL those First Responders know this? They only have to be "scared" to touch your vehicles, and that would cost you dearly.
- Are hybrids ready for people who drive more aggressively? I believe Hybrid buyers are, at least currently, not lead-footed. For lead-footed people, are hybrids up to the challenge in terms of reliability at long term?
I love hybrids, and I think it has great future. I am wondering if the society is ready for it. It may takes years for problems to surface and be corrected.
Contrary to American automakers (whom I would like to see survive well into this century), the Japanese, in this Toyota example, have taken existing technology and improved dramatically, the fuel useage for the common driver. The hybrid vehicles operate well within accepted driving habits, IMO. For those who desire fast accelerations, top 1/4 mile times, and other wasteful and inefficient driving quests, perhaps the hybrid ain't their cup of tea.
I was part wrong. Prius does not a have dedicated hardware to act as a radiator. The thing that looks like a radiator(labeled as condenser) in the picture below plays a role as A/C condenser, Inverter radiator, and the drivetrain radiator.
Dennis
You sound like an expert on hybrid cars. Explain this; I know hybrid cars/SUVs from Toyota don't have the traditional 4 or 5 speed automatic but have something called CVT. My knowledge about CVT is very limited, but I understand it has infinite ratios. Exactly what does it mean? Suppose I am cruising at 60 to 80 mph. My Camry generally registers anywhere between 2000 to 2700 rpm. If I am driving say a Prius what would be my rpm. Will it be constant at a constant speed (aka 2000 rpm at 60 mph) or would it vary?
My next car would probably be either a Toyota or Lexus hybrid and you probably know more about hybrids than the sales person.
Thanks
5 speed automatic transmission has five preset gear ratios. As you drive, depending on the conditions, 4th gear might be more efficient than 3rd gear. What if the higest power delivery gear is exactly at 1.6? What if the most fuel efficient gear ratio is at 4.3? 5-speed transmission can not do 1.6 or 4.3 gear but CVT can.
"Suppose I am cruising at 60 to 80 mph. My Camry generally registers anywhere between 2000 to 2700 rpm. If I am driving say a Prius what would be my rpm."
For the classic Prius, at 40mph cruising, the engine is at 1,300 rpm. At 50mph cruising, the engine is at 1,500 rpm. At 60mph, i would guess it is at 1,650 - 1,700 rpm.
"Will it be constant at a constant speed (aka 2000 rpm at 60 mph) or would it vary?"
It can vary because the road can be at decline or incline. At a decline, depending on the slope, engine output requirement will vary. If the required load is less than 16 horsepower, Prius will roll down purely on electric. Fuel will be cut off from the engine and energy from moving pistons will turn into electricity.
At an incline, the battery will help out first. If the incline is long enough, engine RPM will increase to supply more power while able to charge the battery back(if the computer decides to). The reason the battery helps out first is because internal combustion engines are inefficient at supplying a short burst of power.
This might also help. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/hybrid-car14.htm
Dennis
http://home.earthlink.net/~graham1/MyToyotaPrius/Understanding/Co- ntinuouslyVariableTransmission.htm
Yes. It also depends. In New York, it is 10 years 100,000 miles.
"The only negative I see with an Hybrid is the cost of replacing the battery if you want to keep the car past 100,000 miles. Any chance the price will fall significantly?"
I read an article about how much the classic Prius battery prices came down from 6k to 3k. That's with only producing low volume classic Prii. Imagine how many more batteries they will be producing when many other hybrid models are in the market by the year of 2012 to 2014? I would not be that optimistic because Toyota will decide how much they are going to charge unless there are aftermarket batteries from Sanyo or Ovonic and other manufactures.
Dennis
Still, considerably better than the ICE version... but it makes it harder to justify the extra cost, around 3-4K I've heard.
Also, that 1500 tax break is a deduction, not a credit, so it is worth (at most) $550 or so off the taxes, at the highest tax bracket.
Dennis
SUV burn more gas than mid-size family cars to start with. 400h will reduce more gas usage(in gallons) than Prius. HSD in any form will reduce gas usage, lower emission, and increase performance at the same time.
Dennis