Lexus RX 400h and 450h

silvereagle2

I just got off the phone with an old friend of mine who is the Fleet Manager for a large AutoNation Lexus dealership. He confirmed what I heard from my local dealer that there will definitely be a delay til possible summer and that it is, as I was told where I get my 2 lexus serviced, a battery problem(extracting maximum power relative size).

bossylady

Does anyone know if the new Lexus 400h will offer XM radio???? I believe that the LS is the only Lexus model that currently offers this. If it does, I'm finally sold on this vehicle. If not, does anyone know if an aftermarket receiver would look "strange" in the dash??? Thanks!!

tomm

(May be redundant, sorry) - In May, I put a deposit on a 400h for delivery "by Christmas" - now the story is that, because the 400h shares "some parts" (not battery) with the Prius, and that car is in production and on the road, there will be a "delay" in the arrival of the 400h. The bum never told me next Summer! - Is that true?? Tomm

gagrice

you have got to wonder if they are having second thoughts about hybrids in anything bigger than a Prius. Ford has wrangled with the Escape for two years and it is still not out. A San Diego dealer told me she will not see them before September. more info on the Escape hybrid thread.

rfruth

Have heard the 400h is on schedule for this fall, also heard Feb 05 on hybridboard.com have also heard the summer of '05 on these forums, seems to depend on who you ask and how you hold your mouth.

gagrice

The best method is call your dealer and ask when you might expect to see one. That is what I did with my Ford manager friend. I would think they have the straight scoop.

midnightcowboy

Straight scoop from a dealer ROLMA

wwest

Just read that Lexus now estimates the RX400h as 27MPG, article didn't say hwy, city, or combined. In any case that is clearly not enough over the standard RX330 to warrant the engineering excercise.

I'm betting there is some major rethinking going on about an I4 yeilding V6 performance and thereby getting the fuel economy estimate back up in the range of 35MPG.

More delays while Ford fulfills the market need.....

rfruth

Lexus or the article (who published it) now says 27 MPG ? The lexus web site (the official word ?) says "hybrids are very fuel efficient relative to conventional vehicles. In city driving, they use less gas because the electric motor is doing much of the work. Also, in the case of the Lexus hybrid technology, when the vehicle comes to a stop, the gas engine... and says will give more detailed information and specs closer to the vehicle on sale date" - they cleverly don't mention any MPG yet - what do you mean more delays, how many delays has there been already ?

usbseawolf2000

Lexus stated since the announcement:

"The RX 400h will develop a peak system output of approximately 270 horsepower and deliver combined fuel economy significantly better than the current average compact sedan rating of 27.6 miles-per-gallon."

MotorTrend said in their Future Vehicle Forecast:

"While the 400h achieves 36 city/31 highway mpg and meets California's Super-Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (SULEV) requirements, it is the power and its delivery that excites us. The electric-enhanced V-6-based powertrain will produce approximately 270 horsepower, a full 40 horses more than the RX 330. Beyond the powertrain, the 400h will Vehicle Dynamic Management (VDM), a more advanced version of the automaker's stability control system. Throw in a 600-mile range, and the RX 400h makes being green more appealing than ever."

http://motortrend.com/future/spied/112_2005fvf/index11.html

Dennis

wwest

I was interested in acquiring a new RX400h I was told that if I put down a deposit to get on the list I could take delivery in April of 04, then early spring, then summer, then fall, and now the latest I hear is early 05.

I'm not interested in an RX400h that gives V8 performance unless it also gets ~35MPG city.

But I will test drive the AWD hybrid escape when it is available.

mxscoobyxm

the 400h will have XM. It will share a button with AM radio.

SAT-AM

matthew.

Sylvia

Thanks! Welcome to the Forums. We hope to see you posting more.

mthexuma

Gas is an average of $2.20 a gallon where I live so I say by the end of summer $2.50 could be average.

djasonw

We're talking national average and it appears my prediction will come to fruition. I live in NY where we require a "boutique mix" of fuel. Last night I saw a station selling gas for $1.99. Over the weekend I was in PA and plenty of stations there were selling for $1.79. Gas WILL continue to drop in price. Take the for sale sign off that SUV!

gagrice

And to think I almost sold my Suburban to my neighbor...

djasonw

Don't do it.. if this continues I am going to get a Hummer to join my Prius in the driveway. LOL!!!

sorter

Lexus website has it early 2005. It was supposed to be Oct this year, wasn't it?

Early 2005 could mean March.

rfruth

The Car Connection says November but I'm not sure how much faith to put in that - snip -


Toyota has still more hybrids on tap, including a version of its Lexus crossover, which will be dubbed the RX400h when it goes on sale in November. According to Esmond, the new battery/electric crossover will "outperform the BMW X5 - and get better mileage." TCC recently reported on other possible Toyota hybrids, including a version of the MR2 roadster. Esmond will not comment on specific, long-term vehicle programs, though he concedes that eventually, Toyota "very well could have" a hybrid powertrain option for just about every vehicle it offers. Part of the challenge is figuring out "how (to) badge a Camry…so people know it's a hybrid."
http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?n=173&sid=173&a- rticle=7309

carguydc

Lexus website now states early 2005 as a 2006MY vehicle. So, to be clear - a definate delay from their earlier stated "fall 2004".

usbseawolf2000

I think Toyota learned from their Prius near winter launch. March is the time it starts to get warm so, the timing is better and MPGs should be near the range of EPA numbers.

Dennis

motownusa

Is the Highlander Hybrid coming out in Spring 2005 also?

motownusa

I think it is good that Toyota is taking its time and ironing out potential glitches before releasing a new product. That bodes well for long term reliability. Better than rushing the product to the market and ending up with unhappy customers.

michael2003

Has anyone heard whether there will be a sport variant of the RX400h?
Of course, although I'd read several articles about there being a sport version of the RX330 and Edmunds lists a sport option for the RX, when going to the Lexus web site to build the RX, I never saw any option package that indicated a sport version was available.

rfruth

According to a recent article in TCC http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=7297 the 400h is one of the vehicles that says you've arrived.

lok888

Did I read something about a possible up to 6 months delay for the release of RX400h due to the problem with the battery pack? Was it scheduled to release in December 2004 or January 2005. Or they are still on schedule. Will they call it 2006 RX 400h if they release it in spring 2005?

lexrexblue

After reading an earlier post that the new RX 400h would be a 2006 I consulted my dealer. The salesman assured me that the delivery date is still set for April, but it will definitely be a 2006.

carguydc

Website no longer mentions any timing change and the FAQ now no longer mentions that it will be a 2006MY. Perhaps they read this forum and didn't like that we caught on!

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wwest

the RX400h product has been cancelled in favor of a more realistic hybrid system, say the HL's I4 yeilding the performance of the current 3.3L V6.

Scaling the hybrid concept UP simply in order to gain HP/torque makes no sense at all. I suspect Toyota has run head-on into the law of diminishing returns. My 01 AWD RX300 has more than enough HP/Torque!

wwest

Extracting power via regenerative braking on the front wheels of a lightweight sedan, the Prius, is likely a totally different "animal" than doing so on a FWD SUV.

A Prius owner likely wouldn't (shouldn't!) expect decent performance on adverse roadbed wintertime conditions whereas an RX400h owner would DEMAND it!

The use of regenerative braking on the front wheels of an SUV on a slippery roadbed would undoubtedly result in not a smallish number of accidents due to loss of directional control at the worse possible time.

Maybe, hopefully, out of this we'll get an RX with REAR drive and/or AWD that has definite rear torque bias.

stevedebi

The issue of how well the hybrid technology is adopted hinges on how well it conforms to larger vehicles. I would hope that all smaller cars will go to hybrid, because a smaller car can be light enough for the hybrid technology to yield very good MPG.

The larger cars and SUVs simply can't compete mileage wise. This means that the economics are even worse than the ones for the Prius, that is, recovering the extra $$ put into the purchase price of the hybrid technology.

Not that I'm complaining about twice the MPG, but twice 12 MPG is still only 24 MPG. And one review I saw on the Escape indicated it yielded 13 MPG in off road, probably not much better than ICE versions. The hybrids also appear to be sensitive to aggressive driving, which eats into the MPG in a hurry. Hence the C&D yield of 42 MPG for a Prius, and less for a Civic Hybrid.

So now we want people to drive less aggressively and use smaller vehicles? Hmmmm, not sure the American public is interested...

Unless people start switching to smaller vehicles, hybrid technology may not pay for itself, and may be simply a way station on the road to hydrogen power.

buckeye1

The retail vehicle market is much too new to draw long-term, speculative conclusions, imho.

With the giant jump in weight, hybrid application to 400h will meet with a few bumps and skids.

My guess is that the Japanese vehicle manufacturers will not put a "maybe" technology into the commercial market, thus the delayed 400h will come off the line in pretty good shape hybrid-wise.

That's my unexpert, speculative, general observation!

wwest

Yeah, but as an RX240h.....

stevedebi

I don't consider it speculation for the MPG figures. The Escape Hybrid (similar weight class) is expecting around twice the MPG of the ICE version, actually slightly less than 1/2 on the highway...

I am drawing conclusions based on the available information. In short, there is no bypassing physics: it takes a lot of energy to overcome the higher intertia caused by a larger vehicle. This means less MPG, because the base ICE engine has to be larger.

falconone

I find it quite amusing that a car manufacturer would spend millions on development then decide to pull the plug (no punn). Why would they advertise if the fruits of their labor did not yield any satisfactory results? Before we speculate, perhaps we should be patient and wait for the finished product. I bet we're going to be pleasantly surprised.

stevedebi

Just that it won't be as spectacular as the Prius, or as cost effective.

Hmmmm, how much was the "pleasantly surprised" bet for?

wwest

The Japanese culture does not allow for much "egg in face". I suspect they might rather pull the product altogether, stating some cover-up reason (a lot like our current Pres.)

hongcho

Or they could pull it off, eventually, just like most of their other engineering efforts.

(Probably, it's not better to generalize based on "culture".)

Hong.

maxhonda99

Maybe Toyota/Lexus could just be working out some bugs. Obviously, being that it's a Lexus they have to make sure it is very reliable and glitch free from the get go so that their JD Power IQS score doesn't take a hit.

wwest

So, you're saying that unlike Lexus traditionally the RX400h availability and first delivery dates were released before debugging of the design was complete?

NOT!

No, they have discovered something more seriously wrong with the design than simple "debugging" would handle. Something unforeseen during the design phase and early prototype production. You have noticed the new "hedge" regarding estimated fuel economy?

maxhonda99

And you know this for a fact?

stevedebi

However, what I was saying is that the MPG won't be spectacular. Ford originally was going to put Hybrid on the Explorer, but found out it wouldn't be anywhere near cost effective. So instead they are attempting to achieve the same MPG increases with better transmissions, etc.

I don't see any "egg" for the faces here, Toyota has made no promises on MPG. The delays are more likely problems in getting enough batteries, i.e., production, not design problems.

maxhonda99

They may be having design problems or may just be trying to improve MPG, but none of that means they are just delaying to kill the RX400h project. Toyota has said too many times that it's coming, given approx. dates, and are already advertising the Highlander Hybrid and RX400h on their websites, for them to kill the project.

wwest

My company, let alone Lexus, would be extremely embarrassed to have promised our customers this type of "break-through" product (with a Lexus nameplate, yet) in April of 2004 and then had to renege on the promise 4 times, each time delaying delaying the delivery date by approximately one quarter of a year.

You can bet that someone, if not several, Lexus employees have become "window watchers" in Japan over this tanishing of the Lexus nameplate/reputation.

stevedebi

One too many viewings of a certain Sean Connery movie here?

buckeye1

And in the case of the 400h and HL hybrid, they will place competitive new vehicle systems on the commercial market and make a profit with them.

Anyone betting against Toyota Corp, imho, is spitting into the wind...or in this case, opening a rear window to allow the dreaded "helicopter" noise interfer with their tranquility.

stevedebi

But rather that the hybrid technology is less effective with heavier vehicles... and it is the mileage that everyone uses to justify the additional costs.

wwest

No, just placing bets that even Toyota cannot overcome the laws of physics.

But one does wonder, if this is really a viable product, why they don't go ahead and release the HL to production since that customer base will not have such high expectations.

rfruth

Wwest must have some inside info, after all he said they have discovered something seriously wrong with the design and have reneged 4 times, I only heard that from him.