Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
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- Not sure what your current loan terms are, or how difficult it may be to refinance your loan on the truck, but if your interest rate is high, inquire about getting a new 2-year loan on the truck. (Check with a credit union about this.) I doubt that this will help you in your case, but it may be worth a look.
- 6 years is a long time for a car loan on any car. I would suggest that if you need a loan with that long of a term, then you can't afford the car, no matter what it is.
- Your approach to this is going to cost you money. Do not buy based upon payments, but based on value -- payment buyers are begging to get fleeced. Instead:
**Firstly, figure out the cost of the new car. I haven't looked at these in awhile, but last I checked, these were selling at or below invoice, and with incentives on top of that.
**Then, figure out the value of your truck. Remember that a dealer will pay you less than what you might be able to sell it for privately. Based upon a quick look at KBB, you may have enough equity to pay it off, although the mileage on your truck is a bit high, something that won't help you with either the dealer or a private party.
**Your payment should be based upon the amount that you borrow, based upon a given term and interest rate. If you borrow as little as possible, and get as low of an interest rate as possible, your payment goes down naturally. It's best to calculate the amount that you will borrow first (which is based upon the value of your trade and the purchase price of the new car), get that low rate, then see what happens. If you can't afford that payment, then you are looking at too expensive of a car, and you need to get a less costly vehicle.
**Do negotiate trade seperately from the purchase. Negotiating based upon the difference makes it easier to make a mistake, and will improve your negotiation position.
If you want to get rid of the truck, I'd start by trying to sell it privately and then see whether you have a tough time selling it on your own. Use that selling period to do your research on the new car, and go buy it after you've already gotten rid of the truck. If you can't sell the truck, then seriously consider keeping it.
I want to say congratulations for walking away from the dealer when you didn't feel comfortable with what he was saying. Walking away when things don't sound quite right is the first step to financial sanity!
Second, totally agree that 72 months is way too long a time period to finance a car, especially a car that's already nearly two years old in model years.
KBB has a 2002 Envoy with most of the trimmings (side air bags, etc.) valued at around $10,000 for trade-in value, in good condition. So what you owe and what the car is worth are reasonably close together, as you could probably get more than that if you sell it outright.
If you sell this car, and let's say you get lucky and can cover the entire outstanding loan, do you then have enough savings to put down 20% down payment on a new car?
If not, then you're probably better off keeping the Envoy and trying to save, although I know you must feel like it's impossible to save with spending so much on gas.
So - could you do anything about that? Is public transportation an option? Car-pooling and have your fellow car-poolers pay you something towards gas? Flex time, so you could work 10 hours a day for four days a week, instead of 8 hours for 5 days?
Think about your whole situation, not just how to buy a car, and see if there might be creative solutions to your problems.
And - you're just married, might be moving and hauling stuff, and possibly babies might be on the way in the near future - you might be very glad to have that Envoy instead of the smaller Altima for the next few years.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/172959561.html
http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/172846845.html
So much effort put in (no picture, no mention of mileage or color, no real details other than the standby 'MINT CONDITION') to an ad for a car for which they're asking, I'm guessing, about 200% of retail:
http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/172629998.html
and lastly, the old low-mileage-makes-it-worth-triple (quadruple?)-retail routine (the asterisk should have a 'real Rolex included with full-price offer' or 'we gave your Grandma fifteen hundred bucks for this thing!' disclosure):
http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/172820617.html
Thanks for your response. It sounds like you (or at least your wife) likes the 03 Sienna. I have been offered an 01 Sienna LE with 50K miles for $13.5. If the Sienna I am looking at does not have any issues with the engine due to long OCIs, does $11 sound reasonable? How about the $4.5 trade allowance for my Ranger? What do you auction sources say Rangers like mine are going for?
I also have a private party offer of $13K for a '03 Mazda MPV-LX with only 22K miles. It includes power sliding doors which most LXs do not have. It has at least a year and/or 28K miles of factory warranty left. He originally asked for $15, I offered $12, and he countered with $13. What do you think this van is worth?
I'm told that the subarus are a maintenance nightmare. Specifically that subarus cost twice as much to maintain and upkeep as a more reliable car. (Honda, Toyota, Cheverolet, for example) Can anyone give me some insight on this idea.
A very good friend who has owned quite a bit of used clunkers and non-clunkers, says that over the years he's noticed that the parts for subarus are much more expensive. Things like the alternator, water pump, rotor/disk/drum, breaks, tune up, spark plugs, distributor caps and wires. He says that the subaru is a good car for the first year or so, but that any common thing can go wrong, and i could have to replace the kinds of parts i listed above.
could someone give this first time car buyer (me) some input. I would appreciate it. :confuse:
'24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
Secondly, there's a grain of truth in what your friend says. Subarus with their AWD systems are necessarily more complex than FWD cars, on top of which they have two cylinder heads and therefore two timing belts. Their schedule maintenance is somewhat more expensive than Honda, and definitely more expensive than a comparable Toyota.
But if you wanted, say, a mid-size station wagon with a stick shift, there are not a lot of other choices, and certainly not any cheaper ones. And Subarus are very stout and will run for a long time, so I would not shy away from one. I'd just make sure I really want the AWD, because between gas mileage and maintenance, one pays for it.
A good mechanic who knows these cars is also a necessity.. I almost bought a '98 or Legacy a couple years back, but the owner's complaints about "expensive maintenance" had me look the car over very carefully.. sure enough, when the timing belt was done, they neglected to replace the seals that "every Subaru mechanic knows should be done at this time" and the darned thing leaked. Sure enough, the work was done at the "H&H Mobil" gas station, where Oldsmobile get expert service and Subarus, less so.
How's that for some long-winded input?
Good luck,
-Mathias
These are by now SIX years old:
05/31/06 MILWAUKE Regular $10,600 62,018 Above SILVER 6G A Yes
05/18/06 DET METR Regular $9,400 62,112 Avg GOLD 6G A Yes
06/07/06 KC Lease $10,300 74,851 Above SILVER 6G A Yes
06/13/06 OHIO Lease $8,600 75,173 Avg GREEN 6G A Yes
06/07/06 MILWAUKE Regular $9,100 75,580 Avg BLUE 6G A Yes
06/07/06 MILWAUKE Lease $9,400 82,128 Avg VNTRD 6G A Yes
06/07/06 MILWAUKE Regular $8,800 83,740 Avg WHITE 6G A Yes
I took out the ones that said "below average" condition.
Pretty nutso money, if you ask me... buy new or buy a Villager.
1999 Ranger ECab XLT 3.0 4WD:
06/01/06 DET METR Regular $5,600 99,816 Avg RED 6G A Yes
06/07/06 OHIO Lease $4,600 100,491 Avg GREEN 6G A Yes
06/08/06 DET METR Lease $3,600 104,885 Below GREEN 6G A Yes
06/06/06 NORTHSTR Regular $4,000 112,741 Below RED 6G A Yes
06/08/06 CHICAGO Regular $5,000 120,351 Avg BLACK 6G A Yes
There you have it. Sorry for the lousy formatting, but it's getting late...
-Mathias
thanks guys for all of your input. it's truly very, very helpful.
if there is anything else anyone would like to add, i'd be glad to hear it...
I think this auction tells me that the Sienna/Ranger deal I was offered is decent, but not great. I can't help but wonder if the Ohio Sienna is the same one I am looking at. The date and mileage are right, but I consider the color of the one I am looking at to be blue, not green.
It also looks like CarMax's $2500 to buy my truck offer was really poor.
Nope. Just one timing belt. It is a long one, though, and very difficult to install for the shadetree mechanic. And, really, I think that's where the problem comes in. The Subies are just different and, therefore, not agreeable to most do-it-yourselfers. Up until we had to change the timing belt and cam seals, I didn't find our Subie to be any more expensive than any other car I've owned (and that includes 2 Yotas and a Honda).
And what comparable Toyota are you referring to? It has to have AWD to be comparable, so I suppose we're talking about the RAV4 or Highlander, right? As far as a comparable Honda, our Pilot was more expensive to maintain than the Subie, mostly due to the differential fluid requiring changing every 15k miles.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
When I ran my shop and the crossovers first started coming out I tried to explain to people that you would have to change the diff fluid on these vehicles at about every 30,000 miles if you stayed with conventional gear oil. Most people just ignored my advice becasue the fluid still looked good. It wasn't all brown and nasty looking like the fluid in domestic diffs would get. You still needed to change the fluid though because the additive package had broken down.
Having said that, I am surprised the diff fluid requires changing that often. I mean, what happened to good ole 100k mile gear oil? Now the stuff is more like tranny fluid and breaks down quicker.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Have you seen any auction data on 2003 Mazda MPV-LXs, with less than 50,000 miles, particularly blue ones that sold at auction on 6/20/06 in Columbus, Ohio?
Thanks,
Jim
Here is the link to the carfax report. Any advice if this report shows any problems?
To view the CARFAX Vehicle History Report, please click the link below:
2000 DODGE INTREPID (2B3HD46R8YH445891)
*This link will expire on 07/06/2006
The Limited and GT's are not as common as the Special Edition models so they may take a pass; you'll only find out if you ask. Use Edmunds to hit a few other dealers online; I've negotiated entire deals just by email.
Here is a link to the report on the 2000 Intrepid
http://www.tfy.com/~rick/dodge2000intrepid.htm
Difficult to understand all the changes in ownership. Any comments?
I still think, unless this car is just wonderful otherwise, or a screaming bargain (like, less than 2000-2500), I think you can find another Intrepid, if that's what you want, that has had fewer than six owners and doesn't have a questionable odometer reading. Nice looking cars, and can be a good deal used, but nothing particularly 'special', they made like a billion of 'em.
I was kind of thinking the same thing when I saw the odometer reading as being only 76794 in 2004. Very suspicious. While clean outside, the interior of the car was pretty dirty, so I will pass on this car.
It sure is nice to have a service like carfax to find potential problem cars like this.
thanks for your helpful info. I've got a qoute for the 2.5i limited at $22,000. It's a good price (btwn $1 and $2k under invoice). I'm not dissatisfied with the numbers. Now the only thing i'm fighting about is this unethical "documentation fee", that dealers try to rip off customers with. I refuse to pay more than $30. Some states (like maryland) limit the fee to $20. I've asked the dealer to lower the fee to $20 and provide me with the Certificate of Ownership. If he refuses, the deal is off. They are also fugging on the fees charged for regular maintenance. It's really quite frustrating.
I'm also looking to purchase a 2004 BMW 3 series in the low $20's range. Does anyone have any other suggestions?
Again, thanks to everyone for all the input provided..
1. What should we as used car buyers expect a dealership to do to a car prior to purchase (i.e. service, emissions testing, new tires, detail, etc.)
2. Edmunds gives a general statement of Clean and Average cars. However how do we as consumers distinguish between the two (ex. lets say you have a car that has ok miles, the interior is in excellent condition but the outside has some small hail dents, balding tires, and is in need of regular services is that clean or average)
I don't expect dealers to do anything, but I expect them to price accordingly if the car is in need of stuff.
The breakdown of condition is in the used car valuation tool here on Edmunds. I'll post it here, but want to point out that there is pretty much no such thing as an "outstanding" used vehicle. So throw that one right out the window and start with "clean." Here is what it says:
1. Outstanding Vehicle is in exceptional mechanical, exterior and interior condition with no visible wear; it requires no reconditioning. Paint will have a glossy appearance. Vehicle has no mechanical and/or cosmetic problems and has a clean engine compartment. Exterior and interior are free of any damage. Tires are in nearly new condition. Vehicle has a clean title and has the ability to pass an emissions inspection.
2. Clean Vehicle shows some normal wear but has no major mechanical and/or cosmetic problems. Paint still has a glossy finish and may have slight scratches or dings. Some reconditioning may be needed. Interior will have minimal fading and wear. Tires have substantial tread remaining. Vehicle has a clean title and has the ability to pass an emissions inspection.
3. Average Vehicle may have a few mechanical and/or cosmetic problems and may require a considerable amount of reconditioning. Exterior paint has some dullness. Vehicle may have a considerable amount of scratches or dings. Interior material is slightly worn and faded. Tires have some useable tread remaining. Vehicle has a clean title and has the ability to pass an emissions inspection.
4. Rough Vehicle has several mechanical and/or cosmetic problems. Exterior and interior need significant repairs. Tires may need to be replaced. Vehicle may need minor repairs to pass an emissions inspection, but it has a clean title.
5. Damaged Vehicle has major mechanical and/or body damage that may render it in non-safe running condition. Exterior and interior is damaged or worn. Tires need to be replaced. Vehicle may have a branded title (i.e. salvaged, flooded, frame damaged, etc.). Vehicle may require significant repairs to pass an emissions inspection.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The dealer will probably detail the car in order to enhance its appearance and get the highest sales price possible. I wouldn't pay a premium for that, this is just part of his cost of doing business.
I would not buy a car that required emissions work. Make sure that the car can pass an emissions test before you buy it. If your state requires emissions testing, check the laws to find out whether a recent emissions test is required as part of the sale.
Rather than assume anything about the car's need for service and repairs, have your own mechanic conduct a thorough inspection, including a compression test. Before the mechanic takes his turn, do your own exam: look for signs of excess wear, rust, flood damage (particularly in this post-Katrina era), needed repairs, etc, and check everything on the car to make sure that it works, including all of the lights, accessories, etc.
New tires are often a sign that something is being concealed that uneven tire wear might have made more obvious. If you see new tires, check the brand and style. If they are cheapies, odds are good that the old tires might have told a story that someone preferred that you didn't see.
New tires are often a sign that something is being concealed
That whole paragraph is, in my opinion, nonsense. New tires are a sign that a car has new tires. It makes good business sense for the dealer unless the old tires were nearly new. I hate it, because they almost always ARE cheapies, and then you get to run around on them or waste them; neither a good idea.
Car dealers spend amazlingly little time "concealing" anything. The successful ones sell a lot of cars, they make them look good and put them on the lot. That's it. There's plenty of junk available, but most of the time the dealer will not know what's wrong with each one of his vehicles... a lot of cars get bought onthe principle of "looks good to me; it'll look good to them."
I learned a long time ago to carefully inspect any car, no matter the source, and waste no time thinking about what the dealership might do to put one over on me. They're generally too busy, and the salesperson in particular usually doesn't know from cars anyway.
Finally, all those who are really concerned about shady tactics and all this stuff, should probably just go and buy new. Done right, it's no more expensive in the long run.
-Mathias
Range Rovers are horrible on the original Goodyears that were put on them for the first couple of years. We always put michelien Synchrones on any used Range Rover with the 19 inch wheels we get.
Conversely on Discos Goodyears are normaly fine although many times we put perilli(SP?) scorpions on them as they are even better.
We also put no wiper blades on all of the used cars since nothing is more annoying then test driving a car in the rain and the wiper blades not working.
I am sure many other dealerships have the same philosophy.
Personally, I have had more problems with private owners concealing problems with particular problems than with dealerships. The dealerships that I buy from generally send the junk off to the auctions and handle the better than average material.
I agree with you that sometimes the UC car managers miss a problem as they try to turn a vehicle fairly quickly. My brother sold me a car that he took in in trade once. A real cream puff that had an intermittent transmission problem. He drove it for 50 miles and did not see the problem. After the problem arose, he made a few calls and sure enough, the car had made the rounds at a few of the local transmission shops. Of course, the person who traded it in said that it was "in perfect condition."
Sorry, but no. Uneven tire wear can be an indication that the car doesn't track properly, possibly because of suspension problems or accident damage.
If I see a $10,000 car with brand new no-name $40 tires, I'm going to wonder why someone bothered buying those tires in the first place, particularly if the mileage of the car doesn't match the replacement interval of the tires.
a good inspection and good test drive will uncover either of those issues.
New tires MAY mean something, but not necessarily, and its nothing you couldn't uncover otherwise, so I certainly wouldn't take new tires by themselves as a sign of anything.
Why did someone bother putting $40 tires on a car? To save money and sell it quicker. Buyers hate buying a car that they imediately need to spend money on (ie, new tires, brakes, or what have you). 95% of buyers would notice worn tires, but only 5% would notice that the new tires are cheap.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Or, mismatched tires may or may not mean something. The Regal LS I purchased 2 years ago came with 3 out of the 4 tires being of a different type. They were all the same size, but different brands.At the time of purchase I thought Firestones were on the front and Goodyears on the back, but later discovered the Firestones were of 2 different models. They all had good tire tred life remaining when I was inspecting them. Never had a problem with alignment until I rotated them...a slight pull to the right. Purchased a new set of tires a few months back due to old tires dry rotting...perfect.
I think the original owner probably brought the car in with thin tires, and the dealership just threw on anything that they had laying around. Shined them up real good with the Armor-All. :sick:
example. 1997 Honda Accord SE at 85,000 miles ,looks like a pretty clean car dont know if i would call it outstanding pretty much has all the gadets....
TMV is 5,096 (clean) 5,729(outstanding)
NADA is 6,950 (ave, retail) 7,825(high retail)
asking price for this car is 6,700....what should i do...use TMV or NADA.....thx in advance
Drawbacks? Gas mileage isn't really that great. I average around 19 mpg in the city and 24 on the highway. It also tends to knock on some brands of regular gas under heavy load or acceleration. No big deal as I just avoid those brands that seem to cause the knocking and I'm okay. I'd run mid-grade, but at these prices, it's just not practical. Overall though, you can't go wrong with one of these and they are well worth the price. Good Luck on your deal...
Chris in Philly
I know Aurora's are good cars - I've had one almost identical to this before and loved it!
Any advice on the pricing? Thanks for any help you can offer.
Mike
I don't see how a 9-year old domestic of a discontinued brand, a vehicle with a mediocre fuel economy can be a hot seller.
If you like Auroras (they do look nice and are available with a V8), by all means, buy this one or a newer one. I would, however, definitely not take out a loan on a car this old. While it may happily go to 150k, things may start going wrong very soon. It is really unpredictable. So, if you have a limited budget and this will be your primary vehicle, I would look for something newer in this price range - a Prizm/Protege/Saturn/Sentra/Taurus/Malibu/Villager from this millenium, not the previous one.
I agree with asafanov - the Aurora was and is no hot seller.
But at that price for a 98, it's a lot of car for the money.
The Northstar V8 is an eminent powerplant - but that car has a history of electronic trouble a mile long.
So it's basically a toss-up if it's good value or not.
If it was my money, I'd risk a slightly older Infiniti Q45 for about the same cash outlay. Or a much older Lexus LS.
Absolutely right. The "hot" talk is just a sales pitch, not an accurate reflection of the market.
If anything, I'd expect demand for these to be quite cold. I would focus on paying KBB wholesale (not retail), subject the car to a thorough inspection conducted by your mechanic, and avoid taking out a loan to buy it. If you can't afford to buy a car like this without a loan, then I wouldn't buy it at all.
I'm still a little torn though - it does look like a good car for the money.
Thanks again!
I have purchased my first vehicle, a used Toyota Celica from a private owner. Can anybody tell me what I need to do to transfer ownership? I know it involves getting a VA inspection, but what paperwork do I need to get from the original owner & what forms do I need to fill out at the VA DMV? Obviously, I'm very new at this, so a step-by-step process would be MUCH appreciated. Thanks!
Any recommendations? Thanks!