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Comments
Gas prices are on the rise again, and fuel economy is a consideration.
Any impressions of that test drive would be appreciated.
It's supposed to be a 5-speed auto, too - maybe even w/ gated shifter... might be great. Anyone seen one yet?
The 05 Fronty is heavy, and an automatic coupled to the 2.5 might be sluggish, or you'd have to really put your foot into it to make it go. I'd have to test drive both to have a valid opinion. I'd suspect the striper XE won't be a priority for the build schedule for a while.
Anyway, my 3 liter Ranger is hanging in there. It just has the power of a four banger and the gas consumption of a big V6, LOL.
It's amazing how much more room there is in the cab of the Toyota - real full-size people can fit in the back of it.
and which tacoma has more power than the comparable frontier???
if you are going to offer an opinion on your preference, at least have the facts.
If it's like the other Leers, it should be nice-looking.
I bet they have a website, where there might be a photo of the new topper.
http://www.reverendbiker.com/frontier/dynotesting.htm
I read your finding with interest - great reporting as usual. I too found the HP to really come on after 2800 RPM's. My experience with Nissan engines shows that their sweet spot is higher in the rpm ladder. For a truck, where you'd like the grunt down a little lower, its a compromise. The torque does arrive earlier in the band, like your dyno tests show, peaking at 4100 RPMs.
One question - you just dropped a K&N filter into the factory air box in place of the stock filter, right?
I'd be willing to wager you'd get a much better boost with a replacement of entire airbox assembly. Don't know if there are any after market "popcharger" kits available yet, that accepts a cone style K&N air filter. Stillen has a great web site for all kinds of aftermarket components and its only a matter of time before they stock one for the 05 Frontier.
http://www.stillen.com/
1) It's the most common change that owners make, and 2) I wanted to test K&N's claim that it increased horsepower.
Actually, I don't plan to keep the K&N installed. To get to my ranch I have to drive 8 miles of dirt road and I much prefer a paper filter for that kind of duty.
* Years ago I heard a motorcycling acquaintance enthusing about one model because it was "peaky." Is there a certain feel when driving one like that? I mean, does it feel like you are suddenly launching? Wouldn't that be not so hot for a truck? Or is it that it is easier to know when to shift...could be fun on a motorcycle?
* You stated that the tests were run in 3rd gear. If the tests were run in, say 1st gear (or any different gear ratio), how would that affect the results (shape, or shifting of curve horizontally or vertically)?
* Why does the curve only show results from 3000+ rpms and up?
* If I want to get more torque ONLY at low rpms, what can I do? Change something in the transmission or transfer case? (Mainly interested in low range 4WD.) I asked the dealer guy about this and he warned me about changing out single items without considering other factors. Not looking to make huge changes, just some tweaking to preference.
dbauer, thanks for the estimate on delivery date. The dealer did say the truck would be built in March.
* By "peaky" I'm just referring to the way the engine delivers its power. Rather than make its best horsepower and torque in the lower RPM ranges it comes on strong above 4000 RPM. This is not usually a desireable trait in a truck engine where the grunt is needed low in the power band. This is not to say that the 4.0 V-6 is weak at lower rpms, but that it just comes on really strong in the upper end.
* Good dyno operators usually try to run tests in a gear that is as close as a 1:1 ratio as possible; that minimizes drivetrain losses and gives the most consistent readings. In a manual transmission that is usually 4th gear. I would like to have used 4th gear for the tests, but this automatic wouldn't hold in 4th.
* One of the problems in doing a dyno test with an automatic trans is that you don't want it to downshift during the test. With a manual you can just step on the gas and lug the engine until it builds up revs; an auto would downshift if you tried that. We had to get up to about 3000 rpm before accelerating in 3rd or the tranny would downshift, so we got no readings below that.
* With this engine there is not much you can do to gain torque only at low rpm's. A good tuner can tweak the ECM to change the timing and fuel ratios, thus moving the power band lower; SuperChips does that for Ford engines, for example. I don't know of anyone doing ECM work on the VQ40 engine, though. As far as I know your only option is to change the rear end gearing to a lower (higher numerically) ratio, but that would hurt fuel economy.
Brad,east coast NJ.
I'd rather buy a vehicle from Nissan - I've owned 4 of them already. On the '05's, in these categories, the Tacoma is ahead.
Here is the pricing difference. The Nissan does not offer power options in the 4 cylinder.
2005 Toyota Tacoma
4x2 Access Cab 127.2 in. WB Base
MSRP Invoice
Base Price $16,855 $15,463
Destination $565 $565
Convenience Pkg $1,460 $1,168
Total Price $18,880 $17,196
Convenience Pkg $1,460 $1,168
SR5 PKG $2,085 $1,668
2005 Nissan Frontier 4x2 King Cab 125.9 in. WB
MSRP Invoice
Base Price $15,500 $14,659
Destination $580 $580
Selected Options $1,750 $1,518
Total Price $17,830 $16,757
Option contains:
- Air Conditioner
- Radio: AM/FM w/CD1
- Neck Type Tilt Steering
- Sliding Rear Window
- Privacy Glass
$439 buys you a lot of options. I still don't know which one to get.
Scott
I haven't been a fan of timing belts either, but that's where you needn't worry about either truck - the Tacoma's new 2.7L 2TR-FE four-cylinder engine has a timing chain. So did the older 2.4L 2AZ-FE, as still used in the Highlander. On that one, the oil filter is a snap - no jack or ramp needed, as it's right up front, and it's straight up - no spilling at all. Not sure about the 2.7L - anyone done theirs yet?
Sorry, but I may have made your choice a little tougher. Did your daughter sit in the back of the Toyota yet?
Does your truck have VDC and was it turned on/off during your tests?
I test drove a 2005 Frontier V6 and it felt real sluggish, but that is because VDC was turned on at the time.
Please, I am not looking for a fight/argument. I am not trying to provoke Nissan bashing. Just want the honest truth and info so I can make an informed purchase before I plunk down my hard earned money. Hope you guys understand. Thanks.
I don't know that I'd actually want to make any changes, just checking out possible options if I do. I suppose I could go to a 4x4 site but those seem to be dominated with lift this, lift that, liftliftlift questions. The truck felt pretty darned good to me as it was, road testing on the highway. I'm just wondering how it'd do on an extremely steep grunt from a stop, possibly pulling a trailer. It's a light trailer but again, I'm checking things out for the future in case that changes.
If you need info on features of the LE, the Nissan catalogs are pretty good. (Not much in the way of technical specs but has all the details about interior and exterior dimensions, etc.)
Have you test driven any of the '05 Frontiers? The KC and CC share the same wheelbase; the CC just has a shorter bed. So if you can't find a KC to try, go ahead and test a CC with auto transmission (which is what the LE comes with). The auto feels very different from the 6-spd, IMO (I drove both). Likewise, NISMO felt noticeably stiffer than the SE or LE I drove...sorry but I can't remember which it was. Actually, I might have driven one of each.
I saw 2 new Frontiers today. Have been seeing very few of either them or the new Tacomas, which surprises me.
Good luck Dude
thanks
B< NJ,east coast
I've had three flawless Hondas (02 Odyssey, 04 Accord, 05 Odyssey), and had a deposit on an 06 Ridgeline. After
determining the Ridgeline lacked real off-road ability, I got my deposit back and bought the Frontier. Some of my
Honda "buddies" on the Honda forum are pissed that I broke ranks, but so be it. USAToday, MotorWeek, and others have
picked Frontier over the Tacoma and all others as best mid-size truck. Motor Trend picked the Tacoma because of its
many configurations, but didn't consider new-model bugs and real off-road performance. The Tacoma has rear drums, and
its exhaust hangs below the transfer case skid plate. I drove four 05 Tacomas; they all had a quality problem like
leaking exhaust manifolds and 4x4 systems that wouldn't go in or out of 4wd. At least two magazines have also
reported problems during their Tacoma road tests with the 4wd system. Toyota owner forums are reporting many problems
with the 05 Tacoma. I've only seen one problem reported with the 05 Frontier ("ticking" noise); I haven't had any
problems.
The Frontier rides a little more like a truck than the Ridgeline, but it is still an excellent ride on the highway
(corners as well as or even slightly better than our Odyssey), and is truly amazing off-road. On my current trip, I
unintentionally buried it in mud and was able to power out without engaging the rear differential lock; the 4-wheel
limited slip is truly amazing. The VDC is fabulous at keeping the vehicle straight on slippery roads and curves. The
traction package is worth the $500 just for the VDC. The few times I have used the HDC and HSA portions of the
traction package, they were great, too.
Unexpected surprises: the build quality actually seems better than our 04 Accord and 05 Odyssey. Absolutely no
squeaks or rattles, despite severe off-roading, and little things like the sound and quality of the doors closing is
better than on our Hondas. Interior switches are great; speed-sensitive volume control works better than any other
vehicle I have sampled. Rear seat in CC that folds both up and down gives great flexibility. Front passenger seat
that folds flat is great, too. Bed utili-track is great, but there is no 120V outlet option like Tacoma. After
market power inverters are easy to come by, though. Three interior power ports, two that are switched and one that is
always hot, is very clever. Cup holders front and rear will actually hold the big gulp cups; Tacoma doesn't do that.
Power from the engine is strong. Transmission shifts are silky smooth. Cruise control resume is extremely smooth and
doesn't downshift unnecessarily like our Hondas do. Double glove box with exterior that doesn't show fingerprints is
a nice touch. Everyone should have one-touch open-close sunroofs like the Frontier; our Hondas don't.
Disappointments: better fuel mileage would be nice, but 15-20 is competitive in the market. I get about 17 with the
automatic doing 85-90 in hilly terrain. 21 gallon fuel tank limits range somewhat on the highway. Radio display is
not as legible in bright sunlight as Honda displays.
Things I would change: add auto door locks, bigger fuel tank, power driver's seat on the NISMO, at least one glove box
light.
I'm not sure what quality problems you're referring to from JD Power. I researched extensively before buying the
Frontier and didn't find any red flags. I really wanted to consider the Tacoma, but in recent years Toyota has had
quality bugs with new models, as I relayed above. Titan, Frontier, Pathfinder, Armada, and Xterra share a common
platform, and all the recent reviews I have read on all of these models have been quite good. I actually think the
Frontier is quieter and rides better than the Titan.
Hope this answers some of your questions. If you don't need to off-road or tow over 5000 pounds, consider the
Ridgeline. It's on the same platform as the 05 Odyssey, which I can attest from personal experience is a fabulous
ride, too. Happy shopping.
secondly, you didnt specify your height in the original post. most people are significantly shorter than you, so your generalization about backseat space is misleading.
last, 85% of these trucks (both of them) will have a v6 engine. you again generalized to the very small minority. again, misleading to most. your post wreaked of flaming the frontier, and i adressed it.
to avoid people responding to you this way in the future, explain your findings, ie...
"i found the toyota to have more backseat space. im 6'4", so that might not matter to most."
"i found the 4-cyl. models to have better acceleration in the toyota."
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
Brad ,NJ<East Coast)
dbauer, why are you flaming people that present facts? Who are you trying to kid?
You're "suggestions" of how or what I should post seem to tell me that I should only present my opinions. I've got plenty of those as well, but people who read theses Forums know that too many posts are nothing but opinions. That's nice and all, but still facts are what I base my decisions on, not an opinion of someone I don't know. You're entitled to your opinions, as is everyone else on these Forums. But neither your opinion or mine changes any facts. Why are you afraid of facts? Your continued bashing of any statements that might cast Nissan in a bad light demean me, you, Nissan, and salespeople in general. If you've got any facts to add, I'd be happy to read them. You stated that I am misleading people - I have mislead no one. I posted factual information - not my opinion, not a flame on Nissan or you - merely facts. For presenting them, you are flaming me. As to your first statement about getting things straight - I'll let others decide whether you're here to sell Nissans or not.
in the original post, you gave generalizations as to why you prefer the toyota. you offered no actual facts in that post. thats what i was asking for in the last post, and thats why i made suggestions as to how your opinion may be better received.
saying "the toyota has more power" is vague and ambiguous at best and, yes, misleading at worst.
all im asking is for you to demonstrate your thought a little more so the rest of us schlubs can better understand what you mean.
Beleive it or not, once in a while you might see something on a message board that you disagree with or that may be less than 100% accurate. That should be a basis for discussion, not challenges.
PF Flyer
Host
Pickups & News & Views Message Boards
Not sure if having side curtain airbags is an important option to you, but the Nissan King Cab XE offers it and the Toyota Access Cab doesn't.
The interior passenger volume specs of both the Nissan King Cab and the Toyota Access Cab are very close in size; however, the Toyota to me looks bigger.
If your 11 year old doesn't like the amount of space in the Access/King Cab now, I am sure she really won't like it as she keeps growing.
I agree. When I test drove, another person (5'9") sat in the back of both Frontier and Tacoma extended cabs and deemed them "not bad, but...." I also sat in the back of the Frontier KC myself; I am smaller. Neither of us would want to ride in back of either truck for more than a short time. They ARE bigger and more comfortable than the sideways-facing seat I endured in an old Ranger/Mazda.
There is going to be an entire generation of kids who right now are riding around in extended cabs and crew cabs, who will grow to absolutely LOVE riding in the back of a car or van. Even a full-size truck's crew cab is not as spacious as the back seat of a compact car.
How many parents are buying trucks (with incredibly short beds) for family-hauling just because minivans and SUVs are passe? And how many of these trucks are tall 4WDs that the kids can barely step into?
ummm...havent been in a crew cab lately have you...
I did lots of research myself before making the decision to go w/ an 05 Frontier over a 05 Tacoma. Have only had the Frontier for 48 hours and cannot speak much re long-term use. I do believe that the '04 problems with Titan and Armada (know friends with them) have been addressed and will not surface on '05 models. I love my new truck. Ride quality is rock solid {much more so than in the Titan} (smooth and SILENT), acceleration is respectable and braking is firm). My family of four fits fine (small compared to our Pilot, but hey . . . ). Nissan is really focussed on selling the Titan and no incentives are being offered on Frontiers, but I offered $500 over invoice and the offer was accepted without any hassle. Can let you know if you like what my longer term impressions are as they form, but immediately I can tell you that I like the 05 Frontier a lot (although I do miss some of the things I had on my Grand Cherokee: heated mirrors {freezing rain today}, compass and outside temp AND keyless entry. I know that some of these items are options for the Frontier but we choose to go as "cheaply" as possible and the a fore mentioned items are missed by me (maybe not by you).
I have never been a "sheep" and this mentality probably contributed to my decision of Nissan over Toyota (along with the 4 wheel discs, slightly higher BHP, and stronger frame construction). Only time will tell as to where your $ is best placed for '05, but so far I have to say that I am very impressed with the package offered by Nissan.
Happy hunting . . .
Jason
I'm hopeful the teething problems seen on the new '04 trucks won't surface on the '05s. The Titan, Quest, and Armada are all built at the brand new Canton, MS plant. That plant has had some well documented quality issues. The Frontier, XTerra, and Pathfinder are being built in Smyrna, TN. That plant has been operating for over 20 years, building Frontiers, Sentras, and more recently Maximas and Altimas. They know what they're doing in Smyrna.
-Jason
* Can the ABLS be turned on and off? (Spinning the wheels is fun sometimes.)
* Does the ABLS also reduce the engine power or does it soley brake the slipping wheel?
Thanks.
I took it in today to have the tech at the dealer listen to the sound. They had not heard of the problem. I mentioned that I had seen the problem on several forums, and that one user had the manifold replaced, which fixed the noise. THey had to follow protocol and call the Nissan tech line. Nissan knew of the problem. They ordered a new intake manifold, gasket, and some adapter. Just to be clear, the rattling/clicking sound I have comes on at 2100 RPM, but not prior, and fades out as RPMs climb. It is most noticeable when the truck is warmed up. This problem is, apparently, not a functionality problem, but just a nuisance (as of now). I hope this helps.
But some info on the Xterra stated that the ABLS both brakes the spinning wheel as well as supplying power to the wheel with good traction. I don't think it can be turned off--have to trust the electronic brain, I guess.