Hybrids in the News

rfruth

From the show me state - snip - Another hybrid for KC. Maybe the next marketing slogan for Kansas City will be “Hybrid Capital, U.S.A.”

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/business/10131351.htm?1c

larsb

very cool concept diesel-electric hybrid from Mercedes.....

http://www.rediff.com/money/2004/nov/01merc.htm

robertsmx

Too bad the article emphasizes too much on (unnecessary) frills, and next to nothing on the powertrain.

larsb

that is diesel/elec - that in itself is very cool.

robertsmx

A working diesel-electric vehicle :-)

j/k

gagrice

It is another cool concept car. I wonder how much of the Chrysler technology from the Intrepid ESX series cars was used. The ESX could have gone on the market in 1997 except for the huge cost difference. The latest ESX3 version gets 72 mpg with a cost difference of about $7,500 from conventional ICE. That seems in the price difference of some of the hybrids that are supposed to be out soon, RX400h for example.

http://www.allpar.com/model/intrepid-esx3.html

http://www.sae.org/automag/globalview_05-00/02.htm

robertsmx

Well, there was more than $6K price difference between Dodge Intrepid ES and R/T. There is a $8K price difference between Accord LX and Accord EXV6 w/NAV. So, I don't understand the big deal about $7.5K for ESX that promised 72 mpg. Could it be something else?

little_pogi

Listening to the evening news, I learned that our Governator is in Japan promoting California. It mentioned about a private meeting between him and Toyota president Fujio Cho. Schwarzenegger is encouraging Toyota to build the Prius in "Khalifornia" at a plant jointly operated by Toyota and GM. Let's see if his influence extend across the Pacific in Japan.

rfruth

Hybrid Cars Soon To Dominate The World Market

Carmakers agree the future belongs to vehicles driven by hydrogen-powered fuel cells. Fuel cells, which fuse hydrogen and oxygen to produce electricity, heat and water, are considered the ultimate power source because of their efficiency and lack of pollution. But industry executives acknowledge that developing the networks of fueling stations is a goal that is likely decades away. "Until then, the challenge will be to ease away from fossil fuels by matching new technologies with commercially viable markets," said Dr. Gang Wan

http://www.wbcsd.org/plugins/DocSearch/details.asp?type=DocDet&am- p;am- p;ObjectId=11328

gagrice

Hybrid Cars Soon To Dominate The World Market

You must have read a different article than I did. The only hybrid mentioned was the Prius and it was along side a Diesel Audi and two Mercedes fuel cell cars. Sounds to me like electric cars will dominate the market leaving the over complex hybrids on the trash heap of bad ideas.....

rfruth

A different article ? Hybrid Cars Soon To Dominate The World Market is the wording from the article, not mine

http://www.wbcsd.org/plugins/DocSearch/details.asp?type=DocDet&am- p;ObjectId=11328

It refers to the Insight, Prius, Escape, Accord, Lexus SUV and Toyota Highlander - we must be talking about different articles.

gagrice

Ok,
I read it closer this time and found the reference to the hybrids. I had read an article earlier on the Michelin Challenge Bibendum, that seemed to focus more on the electric vehicles that were entered in the challenge. I still think the hybrid will not get to any significant percentage of the total world market before the diesel and electric cars dominate. I can see a series diesel/electric hybrid becoming mainstream, such as the 72 mpg ESX3. That car has been around since the middle 1990s. Chrysler just does not want to try and sell a car that costs that much more than a conventional automobile. There is a limited group of people that will spend more than is practical to be the first on the block. I don't see any of the hybrids worth the extra cost aside from the Insight. That seems to be a very practical high mileage vehicle.

larsb

If the USA is included as a part of the "world market" that they are talking about, then diesel/electric Hybrids will NEVER dominate, at least not in the USA.

The problems with higher extra cost to make a diesel/electric engine ( one of your current complaints with the gas/electric hybrids Gary ) will keep those cars out of the mainstream, not to mention the smog production of the diesel exhaust.

larsb

Very interesting new article from MSN/Newseek

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6479959/site/newsweek/

tempusvn

http://www.caroftheyear.org/pages/Coty05.htm

gagrice

No longer will they be bizarre larva-shaped cars for tree huggers and techno-geeks.

Help, Help, Attack of the killer hybrids... :-)

Interesting article, I may use it in other threads... If you don't mind..

backy

I guess they love those "lava-shaped" cars in Europe:

http://www.caroftheyear.org/pages/Coty05.htm

backy

Nissan will be focusing on performance with the Altima Hybrid. The prototype combines the powerful 2.5-liter engine used in the current Altima, with a 100kw electric motor. For comparison, the Prius uses a 50kw electric motor. Still, the Altima Hybrid is expected to get high fuel economy and produce very low emissions.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/futuremodel.aspx?familyid=1115&- amp;pictureid=&usage=Image&src=future

rfruth

This sums it up nicely - snip - it is not the perfect solution for the future, but it effectively plugs the gap until a real alternative to oil power is brought to production - most likely a hydrogen fuel cell car.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/motoring/story.jsp?st- ory=584161

Sylvia

I've moved the battery posts to The great battery debate discussion.

So the "news" isn't lost - here is a re-post of gagrice's message that kicked off that sub-thread:

Automakers hope that the growing popularity of hybrids will entice other companies to build the battery packs, increasing competition and ultimately reducing the price, which now can run as high as $5,000

If they cannot keep up now with the small production. What is the outlook for the time when your hybrid needs a new battery? Will you have a 2 month wait till they get a spare? Does Toyota & Honda USA have a supply of spare batteries in stock?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-11-21-hybrid-batteries_x- - .htm

robertsmx

I believe Prius and Matrix share a lot under the skin so they are hardly different in that regard. On the outside, Matrix goes for a more conventional sport wagon look while Prius goes for small minivan style. But the differences tend to end there.

Last generation Prius wasn't all that different from Echo, and I won't be surprised to learn if Prius either shares or uses a modified platform that Echo or Corolla/Matrix use.

If Matrix Hybrid were to happen, I see a redundancy as well, unless Toyota chooses to take out Matrix (unlikely) or increases Prius' dimensions to complement Camry like Matrix is to Corolla.

backy

Um, just what do Prius and Matrix share under the skin? They have totally different exteriors and interiors, totally different powertrains (including different ICE engines), much different standard equipment and options. Not a lot of similarity IMO except they are both 5-door cars and are roughly the same size.

Sylvia

Sorry, this isn't the place to discuss coal unless a car is going to run on it.

Let's stick to the subject at hand.

Sylvia

Last call for getting back on topic, otherwise posts will be removed.

Please LOOK for the discussions that best fit the topic you want to discuss. Here are some that the usual off-topic offenders need to go to:

Biodiesel fuels

Natural Gas fueled vehicles

Hydrogen fuel cells

robertsmx

Platform sharing. Accord and TL have different exterior, different interior and different engines. However they share the platform.

In case of Honda, I believe Insight is based off a platform that is shared with Jazz/Fit but with some use of weight saving material (aluminum alloy etc).

Prius' engine echoes that of Echo, only that it has been modified to use Atkinson cycle instead.

backy

So Prius and Matrix use the same platform? I was not aware of that, only that Matrix and Corolla use the same platform.

robertsmx

It would be weird for me to imagine Prius not sharing a platform with either Matrix/Corolla or Echo, hence my belief. Engine is definitely shared (with Echo in the American world, and other Toyota cars otherwise).

Platform sharing does not necessarily translate to identical vehicles, however. There are substantial differences between Element, FR-V and CR-V, yet they share platform, which happens to be, with Civic.

But, in this case, Matrix Hybrid and Prius will have little to no difference, and one of them will be redundant.

electrictroy

CA-governor Arnold says that hybrids' high MPG is reducing gas tax revenue. i.e. They burn less, so there's less money to pave the roads.

He proposes added a 1.25 cent per mile toll to all cars to raise more money.

backy

Or they could take Nebraska's approach and put a tax on hybrids--$75 I think it is in Nebraska.

gagrice

He proposes added a 1.25 cent per mile toll to all cars to raise more money.

That seems fair. I wonder how he will do that. They could take your odometer reading each time you get your license renewed. Just add it to the fees that are already very high in CA.

electrictroy

"Or they could take Nebraska's approach and put a tax on hybrids--$75 I think it is in Nebraska."

.

Yeah that makes sense...
"Here's $1000 tax credit to encourage hybrid purchases & save fuel & clean the air..."
"...ooops, forget that. We're going to charge you $750 over the next 10 years, because you don't burn enough."

IMHO it makes more sense to either:
(a) raise gas taxes and encourage gas-guzzlers to boost their MPGs (or Americans to stop buying gas-guzzlers) & thereby keep the road treasury filled.

(b) Append the surcharge to gas-guzzlers for dirtying California's air.

I like option (a) best.

Punishing high-mpg cars for cleaning up California air quality is the WRONG approach. We should be punishing the gas-guzzlers for making the air dirtier.

backy

I agree. I think Nebraska is stupid (the law, I mean).

gagrice

We agree on that one. Seems counter productive.

little_pogi

My work requires me to drive approx 20k miles every year. Doing the math at $.0125 per mile, that's about $250 per year additional taxes. More than triple the unpopular car registration tax former gov. Davis made 2 years ago. Arnold is thinking about a sequell to "Total Recall".

rfruth

One of each ! - snip - Bonnie Keller and her husband Rich do their part for energy conservation. She drives a Toyota Prius, a hybrid-electric vehicle. He drives a Volkswagen Jetta diesel that he runs mostly on soy-based fuel.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD/MGArt- icle/RTD_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031779395833

removeum

I live in Omaha, NE and own an 04 Prius. I was not taxed $75.00 dollars when I bought and/or registered the car.

gagrice

Very interesting. They are saying what I have said here before. One of the major reasons that Toyota and others are building the hybrids is to raise the fleet mileage....

Michelle Robinson, director of the clean-fuels program for the Cambridge, Mass.-based Union of Concerned Scientists, said that simply putting more hybrids on the road without increasing fuel-economy standards will not cut oil consumption because automakers will be able to produce more gas guzzlers without increasing their overall gas-mileage average.

backy

OK, it's not exactly a tax--it's an "alternative fuels user's permit" (darn clever, those politicians!):

http://www.revenue.state.ne.us/legal/rr860101.htm

So, have you applied for your permit yet? (Note how it applies to the Prius, but not to Honda hybrids which cannot run on only the electric motor.)

gagrice

It looks like they tailor made that to fit the Prius. I think it is bad policy. I guess they want everyone to pay his fair share of the road maintenance. It makes you wonder if they thought they were getting all the Hybrids and screwed up the language of the bill....

larsb

Giving employees $5000 to buy a Hybrid that gets 45 mpg+:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2004-11-29-hyperion_x.htm

We need more rich CEOs with his vision !!

zodiac2004

Giving employees $5000 to buy a Hybrid that gets 45 mpg+:



Good. That'll just about cover a battery replacement ...LOL

backy

Since this is a CA company, those folks won't need to worry about that for at least 10 years or 150,000 miles--if they buy a Prius or other hybrid with the battery warranted that long. That's a long time to enjoy that $5000--or watch it grow.

gagrice

Smart manager! Smart Move and a dandy Christmas Bonus for his employees. That builds company loyalty that is needed in this country.

falconone

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/usatoday/20041130/bs- _usatoday/californiacompanyoffersworkershotdealforpurchasingahybr- id

larsb

All you Prius owners have a lot of company:

http://www.autoindustry.co.uk/news/industry_news/news-57522kac4d

larsb

Good info on the Highlander Hybrid for 2006:

http://www.auto123.com/en/info/news/news,view.spy?artid=32646&amp- ;pg=1

backy

Again for 2005, as in 2004, one hybrid made C/D's 10Best. For 2005, it's the Honda Accord.

larsb

Amazing that a person can live in today's world and still think Hybrids "plug in" or that a Hybrid car is a "robot." But that's what Automobile Mag got from one yokel:

"Only one of our test cars looked as if it were sent last week from outer space (actually, it comes from Toyota City, near Nagoya in Japan), and only one can take epochal, brand-making advantage of the general public's dim-to-nonexistent understanding of hybrid technology. "Where do you plug it in?" is a question you'll learn to hate as a Prius driver. They don't understand. But we feel quite certain that the Prius defines the automotive new wave for Americans, nevertheless. "Is it a robot?" someone asked. "That's the robot, right?'
"Why, yes, it is," we told them. "Stand back."

Amazing.

Kirstie_H

Huh, I find that attitude extremely condescending. There are a lot of middle-aged to older folk for whom hybrid technology is unfathomable. The advancement of automotive technology over their lifetimes has been so vast & rapid, and individual ownership has gone from rare to nearly universal. I'm sure my parents (retired) have no concept of how a hybrid vehicle works - it's not even on their radar screen.

I'd think that those who truly believe in the benefits of the technology would be eager to explain to those who show any sort of curiousity, regardless of how educated they may be on the product. Sure, you get the same weird questions over and over, but those can be opportunities rather than hassles if you approach them properly.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

larsb

But let's state the facts: If you even have a smidge of techno curiosity, or if you watch the news or read a paper, you MUST have seen some recent info on Hybrids. They are indeed all over the news these days.

Educating people is fine and admirable, but modern, intelligent people need to take it upon themselves to understand technological advances which can benefit their own lives and the Earth.

It's like the cell phone USED TO BE and sometimes STILL IS for some people - they dont even TRY to learn, they just IGNORE it. We don't want that attitude to take affect with Hybrids.