Yeah the hybrid Altima could be an interesting vehicle. I am just not very excited about Nissan products. Yeah I know Nissan vehicles are in such hot demand that they cant even keep up with production(had to close a few plants because of a steel shortage).
Despite their current popularity, I never liked Nissans that much. Drove quite a few as rentals and was not impressed.
Despite their current popularity, I never liked Nissans that much.
From 1964 to 1994 I bought 8 new Japanese vehicles from Toyota, Honda, Nissan (Datsun), & Subaru. The only one that was trouble free was the 1970 Datsun PU. Great little truck. The rest were poor unreliable vehicles.
quote dewey-"Despite their current popularity, I never liked Nissans that much."-end quote
My second car in life was a 1980 Nissan/Datsun 200SX from which I got 323,000 miles before trading it in 1991 and getting $300 for the trade-in. I went 25,000 miles between oil changes and never had a problem with the engine. I replaced a corroded radiator and a clutch, and that was it besides basic maintenance. It was an amazing car. Not that Nissan makes cars like THAT anymore, but they DID back then......:)
Well Gagrice, your experience is worth more than mine since I only used Nissan rentals and never owned one. I believe correct me if I am wrong that Nissan quality today is not as good as it was during the yesteryears.
Despite this the only things that does not make me eager about Nissan are my subjective tastes and opinions. Both of these were formed while driving rental Nissan cars. This conclusion just reflects my preferences.
I believe correct me if I am wrong that Nissan quality today is not as good as it was during the yesteryears.
You may very well be correct concerning recent Nissan vehicles. I did buy a 1976 Datsun PU to replace the 1970. It was not as well built and would not start in cold weather. I sold it after a year. I think the only rental Nissan was down in Cabo. It was just another little car and does not stand out. It did not leave me stranded or I would remember. I almost always rent from Hertz (Ford) or Alamo (GM).
PS
I tried renting a Prius this last time in Hawaii. I don't think they are rented there.
I agree. It would be nice to see Acura RDX utilize a drive train similar to RDX prototype from couple of years ago (190 HP 2.4-liter I-4 + 60 HP electric motors in AWD format, with 6-speed clutchless manual). And this may be possible with a sub-$35K price tag the likely targeted price class for the vehicle anyway.
A hybrid RDX would greatly excite me( I would prefer the option of manual---but that would be an unlikely option) . I will save my excitement until it is officially announced that the RDX will be hybrid.
The RDX may just be a small vesion of the MDX. That would definitely dampen my enthusiasm.
Hmmm, lets see. 25% inprovement on 13 MPG in town is ... 17 MPG! And I think they don't get much better on the road either (in real world use). The planet can rest easy once those big boys get Hybridized!
Oh well, with 2 tons on the move, what's a few hundred extra pounds of batteries and hybrid gear?
If they can sell 500,000 of these hybridized trucks a year and they each average 15,000 miles a year, that's 136,000,000 gallons of gas saved each year. Over ten years (not unusual for a truck), that's 1.36 billion gallons. Not a bad start.
Hmmm, lets see. 25% inprovement on 13 MPG in town is ... 17 MPG! And I think they don't get much better on the road either (in real world use).
My partner got 20-21 mpg on the highway consistently with his Yukon/Tahoe. His wife wanted the smaller Envoy that never gets over 18 mpg. Smaller isn't always better...
Here are some quotes from today's Wall Street Journal(Dec 14, 2004). Interesting that GM and DC use the words "leapfrog today's hybrid" to describe their endeavor. Toyota and Honda are wonderful companies but are not invincible.
"GM and DaimlerChrysler officials said they aim to develop technology that will leapfrog today's hybrids and provide even greater fuel economy and towing power than those offered now by Toyota, Ford Motor Co. and other car makers. They declined to say how many hybrid vehicles they expect to build annually, but said they believe industry estimates that hybrids could account for as much as 15% of the overall car market are realistic."
Remember the once invincible Sony's Betamax. Please read the following quote:
"The GM-DaimlerChrysler tie-up raises the possibility that the world's auto makers are headed for a VHS vs. Betamax-like technology war to line up suppliers behind their respective camps. While car makers take much of the credit for developing new technologies, they rely heavily on their suppliers for research and expertise to make them commercially viable."
The key to who wins the hybrid battle is the following:
"One big key to the hybrid race will be which group can drive down the cost of its technology the fastest. Right now, most hybrids carry about a 15% price premium above regular versions of the same vehicle. Ford's hybrid Escape has a sticker price of about $3,500 more than a comparably equipped gasoline Escape, which goes for around $27,000. The group that narrows the premium the fastest will have an edge in winning over the customers who want hybrid-powered cars"
Knowing GM's track record, betting on them to beat Toyota in hybrid technology would be betting on the wrong horse. Toyota is already releasing their second generation hybrid while GM is still talking.
Based on GM's history you are correct. But History is a great teacher of one rule: Never underestimate an underdog. It appears they are intent on developing hybrids that will leapfrog the 2nd generation of Toyota hybrids. Just imagine great hybrid systems for the massive SUV/truck fleet of GM.
But this is not about GM only. It will involve Subaru, Opel and Saab It involves Daimler Chrysler. . Yes I know DC's history is not the best too. What about a hybrid SMART, a hybrid HEMI combo or performance oriented hybrid MBs.
Imagine what would happen if Nissan or BMW joined? This joint effort appear to be an open invitation for other car manufacturers.
This joint effort is just the beginning of something bigger. Especially since the current hybrid craze does not look like a trend that will die out.
Nissan has already licensed Toyota's hybrid technology, but I suppose there is nothing preventing them from teaming up with GM and DC. A more likely candidate is Hyundai/Kia, which is developing ICE/electric and fuel cell hybrids but already has a partnership with DC on ICE engines.
Interesting that GM and DC use the words "leapfrog today's hybrid" to describe their endeavor.
More noise than substance at this time. And benchmarking their final product based on today’s hybrid is no way to get started. I’ve more faith in taking one step at a time than taking a leap to start with. By the time DCX/GM deliver something, Honda and Toyota would have had more real time experience. They aren’t going to be sitting where they are today.
Chrysler has had hybrids at least as long as Toyota. They were not willing to dump them on the public as Toyota has done with the first Prius. To disparage them because they are taking their time is not IMO a fair thing to do. I can tell you that if they get the ESX-3 in to production it will far surpass any of the other hybrids on the market so far.
In the Dodge ESX3, Daimler-Chrysler has moved significantly closer to its goal: the most advanced environmentally friendly technology packaged in a vehicle that customers will want to drive and can afford to own.
Dumping would be a wrong word. Selling would be more appropriate. Toyota has experience outside of its R&D organization. Like I said earlier, talk aloud doesn’t mean anything.
How about making guinea pigs out of US buyers. Is that more palatable? The Prius would not even pass EPA safety standards. It was given a waiver to get higher fuel cars on the road. I call that dumping on the People.
Every plan involves noise. Good plans and bad plans. It is too early to judge, let us see the execution of the plan in the upcoming years. It would be kind of premature to say that Honda/Toyota have monopolized such execution skills---especially since the Hybrid craze has just recently taken off. (compliments from OPEC)
I think this is great news---competition will cause Toyota/Honda to make further improvements in their hybrid systems.
Innovation would be much slower if Honda/Toyota were the sole producers of hybrid systems.
Also this is not about GM itself(they do have an impressive SUV/truck fleet anyway). It is also about Subaru, Saab and Opel. It is also about hybrid performance Mercedes Benzes, gas miserly hybrid Smart Cars,Hemi-hybrid versions of Chryslers.
And it does not stop there. This joint endeavor appears to be open for others. What if Nissan, VW, or BMW joins. What if all automakers joins this endeavor---then the Betamax vs. VHS scenario would be repeated(not a favorable scenario for Toyota or HOnda)
Which EPA safety standards does the Prius not meet, without a waiver?
I remember when I took the Prius test drive when they first came to San Diego. I asked about their safety rating. If I remember correctly the saleman told me they had not been tested and were issued a waiver, so they could be sold. It looks like they are now tested with a 3 star driver rating, and a 4 star passenger.
Hmmm, lets see. 25% inprovement on 13 MPG in town is ... 17 MPG! And I think they don't get much better on the road either (in real world use). The planet can rest easy once those big boys get Hybridized!
Choosing 17mpg instead of 13mpg still saves more gas than choosing 40mpg instead of 30mpg in a typical 15k year.
The EPA has nothing to do with crash tests. Most new models are sold for months before the NHTSA and IIHS crash tests are published. It sounds like this sales rep was badly misinformed.
How is the Betamax vs. VHS analogy is even relevent? Are people supposed to put in different batteries every night like they do with movies? or is DCX and GM prepping a vast amount of porn to be release on their engines? I don't get it. Besides, Toyota is not exactly stingy about licensing like Sony was. Ford and Nissan are already licensing the technology, with Porsche (then probably VW) shortly to follow.
As in one hybrid system being better accepted than the other by consumers. This is likely to happen if the hybrid premium is significantly lower for DC-GM vehicles.
"Ford and Nissan are already licensing the technology, with Porsche (then probably VW) shortly to follow"
Ofcourse Toyota almost has a Monopoly, unlike Sony. If there was an alternative Nissan and Ford may go elsewhere.
Difference may be in marketing strategy. Toyota wants to make news and expand awareness of its hybrid technology quickly, and Honda/Ford don't seem to take similar steps but continue to work on their own.
Just different ways to do business, especially in case of Honda, we know how little the company reveals until it is time.
"So in the Betamax vs. VHS analogy, Honda would be Sony and Toyota/Ford/Nissan et. al. would represent the VHS supporters"
The vice versa may happen. Or both may coexist and make a lot of money. I dont have a crystal ball. If this is about probabilities I think Toyota/Honda currently has the upper hand . But that does not mean we shoud rule out any joint challenges to Toyota/Honda/Ford hybrids.
So you say..."Toyota dumped the Prius on the market." Take a good look at the product...people waiting 3-6 months just to buy one hardly looks like dumping. The Prius has stood firm with quality, thriftiness, and techno inovativness. Chrysler, on the other hand, has had multiple "RECALLS", not to mention "wheels falling off. I think I'll stick with my trouble free Prius. When or IF in the future Chrysler begins to match Toyota's cars, I might consider theirs. Just try to compare cars in the future on an even playing field. Toyota will hold their own. As a matter of opinion I have liked several cars, both American and Foreign, in the past. Unfortunately, as of late, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc have been winning the competition as of recent years.
There are dozens of vehicles around the world that get better than 45 mpg combined. In CA only 3 are allowed to be sold. The Environmentalists that control the EPA & CARB are not concerned with fossil fuel usage or Ozone depletion. They have their agenda and don't care what the rest of the world is doing.
That seems to be your belief/opinion. I’m no more of an environmentalist than the next person who would prefer to have cleaner air to breathe. You could not ignore the few drawbacks to make a point on others that you (want to) believe in. You have to be able to create a balance, and look for the best way possible to achieve it. Ignoring one or the other is not the way to do it. To start with, I have never understood your fascination of 45 mpg benchmark. Perhaps we should set it up at 60 mpg and have everybody drive Insight. Wait, you needed Suburban for something! Does it get you 60 mpg? NO!
Conservation, while being practical is a tough combination, and couple that to other major issues like pollution (direct and indirect) and things couldn’t get any more complicated. Single dimensional thought process won’t take you anywhere.
I would rather have a solar panel to do it though (either on car, or at home), or may be some kind of "wind mill" using existing mechanical systems in the car (as you drive) in addition to everything else it already do. :-)
quote robertsmx-"I would rather have a solar panel to do it though (either on car, or at home), or may be some kind of "wind mill" using existing mechanical systems in the car (as you drive) in addition to everything else it already do. :-)"-end quote
For sure, for sure, a Solar or Wind power option would be preferable. But if you have the EV mod on the Prius with a cable that plugs into a 110 outlet for power, then you COULD create a home-based solar panel or wind system that powered a battery and then patch that system to a 110 outlet, so you could power the Prius with solar, conceivably.
___I found Ernie’s approach interesting but dropping the Beetle’s Cd from .38 to .28 with no actual measurements other then FE? You know both you, I, and about 100 other Hypermilers in the country could easily take a Beetle TDI from 52 to 58 mpg at a loss of a few seconds per mile with any rolling hills/valley or overpass, pressed up tires, low kinematic viscosity oils, speed, 4 types of drafts, various coasting techniques, parking techniques, timing and rabbit timing techniques, pulse driving under certain traffic conditions, etc. so until the predictions of aerodynamic improvements are actually measured, I have to say there might be quite a bit of bunk in Ernie’s claims until proven otherwise.
___Hopefully someone has E-Mailed him with a link to this thread/post for his own rebuttal?
With light truck sales jumping from 5.4 million (1993) to 9.0 million (2003), getting 40 mpg instead of 17 mpg could certainly make a huge difference. The question is how we get 40 mpg out of light trucks that are in vogue.
Educate us: what is that agenda if it is not the "proclaimed" agenda?
Did I say their agenda was not out in the open? They trade off high mileage for super clean air in cars and let trucks, trains, planes and ships spew all they want. They do not care that the more fuel that is burned the worse the GHG gets. A diesel car that gets 45 mpg is not a problem. It is a trade-off, slightly more NoX and less CO2 than gas cars.
With light truck sales jumping from 5.4 million (1993) to 9.0 million (2003), getting 40 mpg instead of 17 mpg could certainly make a huge difference. The question is how we get 40 mpg out of light trucks that are in vogue.
___Since I am already receiving an average of 37.4 mpg from the 03 Ranger XLT in 20 - 40 degree F temps (it only has 8,300 miles on it to date), allow the NA Ranger’s to include the 1.6 or 2.0 TDCi’s listed on the previous page and it might be worth an average of 50 - 55 mpg with the right driver and setup? The std. Escape should be good for 30/40 mpg with the 2.0 per the EPA City/Highway. This would come without the huge premium’s some are paying for Hybrid’s nowadays although Common-rail injection technology and variable vane turbo’s aren’t free by any means either :-(
___If you have followed some of the Truck Diesel threads, the full-sized DC’s, Ford’s, and GM’s are achieving low to mid 20’s out on the highway and mid to high teens in and around town. Imagine a standard F-150 w/ a 3.0 - 3.5 L TDCi receiving in the low 30’s out on the highway (without towing) w/ a tow cap of maybe 2,000 #’s? 40 mpg? Not from one of these un-aerodynamic 4,000 # behemoth’s just yet anyway.
___Then again, I did hit the following in the MDX a few months ago and it isn’t a diesel or a hybrid
___In other words, 40 mpg might not be possible but low to mid 30’s should be achievable with today’s technology.
Comments
Despite their current popularity, I never liked Nissans that much. Drove quite a few as rentals and was not impressed.
From 1964 to 1994 I bought 8 new Japanese vehicles from Toyota, Honda, Nissan (Datsun), & Subaru. The only one that was trouble free was the 1970 Datsun PU. Great little truck. The rest were poor unreliable vehicles.
My second car in life was a 1980 Nissan/Datsun 200SX from which I got 323,000 miles before trading it in 1991 and getting $300 for the trade-in. I went 25,000 miles between oil changes and never had a problem with the engine. I replaced a corroded radiator and a clutch, and that was it besides basic maintenance. It was an amazing car. Not that Nissan makes cars like THAT anymore, but they DID back then......:)
Despite this the only things that does not make me eager about Nissan are my subjective tastes and opinions. Both of these were formed while driving rental Nissan cars. This conclusion just reflects my preferences.
You may very well be correct concerning recent Nissan vehicles. I did buy a 1976 Datsun PU to replace the 1970. It was not as well built and would not start in cold weather. I sold it after a year. I think the only rental Nissan was down in Cabo. It was just another little car and does not stand out. It did not leave me stranded or I would remember. I almost always rent from Hertz (Ford) or Alamo (GM).
PS
I tried renting a Prius this last time in Hawaii. I don't think they are rented there.
Unless you have a friend/family member with a Prius, renting is about the only way you can test drive a Prius.
The RDX may just be a small vesion of the MDX. That would definitely dampen my enthusiasm.
http://www.ai-online.com/industry_detail.asp?id=670
Oh well, with 2 tons on the move, what's a few hundred extra pounds of batteries and hybrid gear?
My partner got 20-21 mpg on the highway consistently with his Yukon/Tahoe. His wife wanted the smaller Envoy that never gets over 18 mpg. Smaller isn't always better...
"GM and DaimlerChrysler officials said they aim to develop technology that will leapfrog today's hybrids and provide even greater fuel economy and towing power than those offered now by Toyota, Ford Motor Co. and other car makers. They declined to say how many hybrid vehicles they expect to build annually, but said they believe industry estimates that hybrids could account for as much as 15% of the overall car market are realistic."
Remember the once invincible Sony's Betamax. Please read the following quote:
"The GM-DaimlerChrysler tie-up raises the possibility that the world's auto makers are headed for a VHS vs. Betamax-like technology war to line up suppliers behind their respective camps. While car makers take much of the credit for developing new technologies, they rely heavily on their suppliers for research and expertise to make them commercially viable."
The key to who wins the hybrid battle is the following:
"One big key to the hybrid race will be which group can drive down the cost of its technology the fastest. Right now, most hybrids carry about a 15% price premium above regular versions of the same vehicle. Ford's hybrid Escape has a sticker price of about $3,500 more than a comparably equipped gasoline Escape, which goes for around $27,000. The group that narrows the premium the fastest will have an edge in winning over the customers who want hybrid-powered cars"
But this is not about GM only. It will involve Subaru, Opel and Saab It involves Daimler Chrysler. . Yes I know DC's history is not the best too. What about a hybrid SMART, a hybrid HEMI combo or performance oriented hybrid MBs.
Imagine what would happen if Nissan or BMW joined? This joint effort appear to be an open invitation for other car manufacturers.
This joint effort is just the beginning of something bigger. Especially since the current hybrid craze does not look like a trend that will die out.
More noise than substance at this time. And benchmarking their final product based on today’s hybrid is no way to get started. I’ve more faith in taking one step at a time than taking a leap to start with. By the time DCX/GM deliver something, Honda and Toyota would have had more real time experience. They aren’t going to be sitting where they are today.
In the Dodge ESX3, Daimler-Chrysler has moved significantly closer to its goal: the most advanced environmentally friendly technology packaged in a vehicle that customers will want to drive and can afford to own.
http://www.yeworld.net/index/Culture/SZ/Auto/CM/143_20011125/143%- 2031%2020011125153637.asp
http://www.allpar.com/model/intrepid-esx3.html
How about making guinea pigs out of US buyers. Is that more palatable? The Prius would not even pass EPA safety standards. It was given a waiver to get higher fuel cars on the road. I call that dumping on the People.
It would be kind of premature to say that Honda/Toyota have monopolized such execution skills---especially since the Hybrid craze has just recently taken off. (compliments from OPEC)
I think this is great news---competition will cause Toyota/Honda to make further improvements in their hybrid systems.
Innovation would be much slower if Honda/Toyota were the sole producers of hybrid systems.
Also this is not about GM itself(they do have an impressive SUV/truck fleet anyway). It is also about Subaru, Saab and Opel. It is also about hybrid performance Mercedes Benzes, gas miserly hybrid Smart Cars,Hemi-hybrid versions of Chryslers.
And it does not stop there. This joint endeavor appears to be open for others. What if Nissan, VW, or BMW joins. What if all automakers joins this endeavor---then the Betamax vs. VHS scenario would be repeated(not a favorable scenario for Toyota or HOnda)
I remember when I took the Prius test drive when they first came to San Diego. I asked about their safety rating. If I remember correctly the saleman told me they had not been tested and were issued a waiver, so they could be sold. It looks like they are now tested with a 3 star driver rating, and a 4 star passenger.
Choosing 17mpg instead of 13mpg still saves more gas than choosing 40mpg instead of 30mpg in a typical 15k year.
As in one hybrid system being better accepted than the other by consumers. This is likely to happen if the hybrid premium is significantly lower for DC-GM vehicles.
"Ford and Nissan are already licensing the technology, with Porsche (then probably VW) shortly to follow"
Ofcourse Toyota almost has a Monopoly, unlike Sony. If there was an alternative Nissan and Ford may go elsewhere.
Honda - three production gas/electric hybrid cars
Ford - one production gas/electric hybrid car (SUV)
GM - multiple production gas/electric hybrid trucks ... and so on.
Doesn't look like a monopoly to me.
No offense to Honda, GM or Ford, but I dont know of any deals in which these three firms are the licsensor.
Just different ways to do business, especially in case of Honda, we know how little the company reveals until it is time.
The vice versa may happen. Or both may coexist and make a lot of money. I dont have a crystal ball. If this is about probabilities I think Toyota/Honda currently has the upper hand . But that does not mean we shoud rule out any joint challenges to Toyota/Honda/Ford hybrids.
VHS vs. Betamax applies to only two groups
1)Toyota/Honda/Ford
2)GM-DC Joint venture( and any other company joins their venture)
Who becomse the successful VHS version---only time will tell.
Culliganman (trouble-free miles in my Prius)
far.
www.technologyreview.com/view/article.asp?p=12067
So 250,000 Prius + 22,000 Estima = 270,000. A real
milestone.
Toyota is actually selling 7 hybrids vehicles
(though only 1 in USA).
(though only 1 in USA).
There are dozens of vehicles around the world that get better than 45 mpg combined. In CA only 3 are allowed to be sold. The Environmentalists that control the EPA & CARB are not concerned with fossil fuel usage or Ozone depletion. They have their agenda and don't care what the rest of the world is doing.
Sounds kinda conspiratorial to me.....
Educate us: what is that agenda if it is not the "proclaimed" agenda?
Conservation, while being practical is a tough combination, and couple that to other major issues like pollution (direct and indirect) and things couldn’t get any more complicated. Single dimensional thought process won’t take you anywhere.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/12/turning_the_pri.html
I would plug my Hybrid Civic in EVERY NIGHT if it had an option like this....
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2004/12/on_the_wings_of.html
For sure, for sure, a Solar or Wind power option would be preferable. But if you have the EV mod on the Prius with a cable that plugs into a 110 outlet for power, then you COULD create a home-based solar panel or wind system that powered a battery and then patch that system to a 110 outlet, so you could power the Prius with solar, conceivably.
Some envirofan will do this in time, I feel sure.
___I found Ernie’s approach interesting but dropping the Beetle’s Cd from .38 to .28 with no actual measurements other then FE? You know both you, I, and about 100 other Hypermilers in the country could easily take a Beetle TDI from 52 to 58 mpg at a loss of a few seconds per mile with any rolling hills/valley or overpass, pressed up tires, low kinematic viscosity oils, speed, 4 types of drafts, various coasting techniques, parking techniques, timing and rabbit timing techniques, pulse driving under certain traffic conditions, etc. so until the predictions of aerodynamic improvements are actually measured, I have to say there might be quite a bit of bunk in Ernie’s claims until proven otherwise.
___Hopefully someone has E-Mailed him with a link to this thread/post for his own rebuttal?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
Personaly I have driven Maruti-Suzuki (a car with 0.8 liter engine)
sold in India which gives 52 MPG (22 km/l).
But it has
NO AC
NO Automatic
NO ABS
NO Air-bags
No Cruise-Control
and it can touch a max speed of only 80 MPH (130 km/h)
and also its a very small vehicle.
I dont think it will pass US emissions standards.
If you are talking about a car like this, then its not for
discussion in the forum.
Instead if you are talking about a vehicle like Aveo, Echo, etc
American public has rejected those because of their small size
and under performance.
So we want a decently sized vehicle which is fit for an American
family and it also gives 45 MPG. And those are
Toyota Prius
Honda Civic Hybrid.
Those who want a slightly bigger vehicle can go in for Ford-Escape.
The comparison should not be between 17 vs 13 mpg, but rather 17 MPG vs 40 MPG. That would make a significant environmental difference.
haul 3 tons of load.
Then they should design a vehicle with 2 engine
modes. Light mode when the vehicle goes empty and
the Power mode when vehicle carries full weight.
Then it can get somewhere around 30 MPG.
Did I say their agenda was not out in the open? They trade off high mileage for super clean air in cars and let trucks, trains, planes and ships spew all they want. They do not care that the more fuel that is burned the worse the GHG gets. A diesel car that gets 45 mpg is not a problem. It is a trade-off, slightly more NoX and less CO2 than gas cars.
With light truck sales jumping from 5.4 million (1993) to 9.0 million (2003), getting 40 mpg instead of 17 mpg could certainly make a huge difference. The question is how we get 40 mpg out of light trucks that are in vogue.
http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/details.php?cid=380
___Since I am already receiving an average of 37.4 mpg from the 03 Ranger XLT in 20 - 40 degree F temps (it only has 8,300 miles on it to date), allow the NA Ranger’s to include the 1.6 or 2.0 TDCi’s listed on the previous page and it might be worth an average of 50 - 55 mpg with the right driver and setup? The std. Escape should be good for 30/40 mpg with the 2.0 per the EPA City/Highway. This would come without the huge premium’s some are paying for Hybrid’s nowadays although Common-rail injection technology and variable vane turbo’s aren’t free by any means either :-(
___If you have followed some of the Truck Diesel threads, the full-sized DC’s, Ford’s, and GM’s are achieving low to mid 20’s out on the highway and mid to high teens in and around town. Imagine a standard F-150 w/ a 3.0 - 3.5 L TDCi receiving in the low 30’s out on the highway (without towing) w/ a tow cap of maybe 2,000 #’s? 40 mpg? Not from one of these un-aerodynamic 4,000 # behemoth’s just yet anyway.
___Then again, I did hit the following in the MDX a few months ago and it isn’t a diesel or a hybrid
___In other words, 40 mpg might not be possible but low to mid 30’s should be achievable with today’s technology.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
I think maybe the definition of "a problem" is indeed a part of the problem. (follow that?)
Let's take this over to the "Hybrid vs Diesel" debate.....see ya there, Gary..........