The announcement coincides with Prius surpassing the 100,000 sales mark since the vehicle first went on sale in the U.S. in the summer of 2000.
That is 100k in 5 years not one year. They plan to sell 100k in 2005 calendar year. They did not take off in sales until the Hollywood types put their stamp of approval on the Prius. Honda hybrid sales are still not very high. The best of the hybrids, the Insight only sold 570 so far this year. Which is half the number they sold by this time in 2003. Honda dumps the HCH in with all the other Civics so it is difficult to know how many they sold. I doubt it was earth shaking.
The previous article by larsb mentions Honda hybrids and celebrities in the same sentence. It just fails to mention any celebs by name that bought a Civic Hybrid. I am sure I would not want one if that gold digging Arianna Huffington owns a Prius. That is a negative ad for the car.
That is 100k in 5 years not one year. They plan to sell 100k in 2005 calendar year.
Yes, that's right and that's what the article said and what I said. As for the Insight being the "best of the hybrids", I think the market has spoken on that one and disagrees with you. Honda has reported sales of the HCH and it's close to 24,000 in 2004 through November:
I'd like to think that maybe the success of the PRIUS is more complicated than your stated opinion. Timing, MUCH higher prices for gas, a MUCH improved 2nd generation (04) PRIUS and also obvious increased competition (Honda-Ford Escape- etc). Having a bit of Celebrity endorsments sure can't hurt. Don't forget highly favorable critiques by a vast list of car testers over the last year or so and finally the best advertizing $$$ can't buy....WORD OF MOUTH. Enough said I THINK!
Gas prices were over $2.00 a gallon at times well before the '04 Prius showed up. I just think it met the needs of a lot more people than the first Prius to come to the U.S. And all the awards (MT COTY, C/D 10Best, NA COTY, etc.) didn't hurt either.
1. Celebrity endorsements were not necessary to sell Priuses. There were waiting lists long before the publicity hit. It was dumb luck I got mine off an auto show floor. Otherwise I'd have waited 6 months just like everyone else at the time (Feb 2002). Ironically, Ford put out a press release when actor Chevy Chase received his Escape Hybrid (Chevy prefers Ford?)...
2. The gating factor for Prius sales has been, and continues to be, component availability. The number one constraint is the supply of NiMH batteries. This is affecting all the automakers at present...it's the primary thing holding back production of Escape Hybrids, too.
3. It's certainly true that the Prius, being a unique model, has a certain cachet that the Civic does not. More importantly, at the time of the first generation Prius' release in the US, the Prius was a practical replacement for a compact sedan, while Honda at the time had only the Insight which as a two-seater was not (when I got my Prius the HCH was still vaporware). The Prius was also SULEV rated in its standard config while you had to get the CVT version of the Insight to get that rating. Are any of the current Honda models AT-PZEV rated? The current Prius (and the Escape for that matter) are. Remember, hybrid technology is as much or more about emission reduction than fuel economy for a lot of the people buying them.
The Prius was also SULEV rated in its standard config while you had to get the CVT version of the Insight to get that rating. Are any of the current Honda models AT-PZEV rated? The current Prius (and the Escape for that matter) are. Remember, hybrid technology is as much or more about emission reduction than fuel economy for a lot of the people buying them.
___Every Accord I4 sold in California as well as at least 35 other non-hybrid models can be or possibly can only be purchased as a PZEV. Any hybrid with a PZEV rating gets the -AT rating which the HCH does in both Manual and CVT versions. Cleaner? That depends.
___As for all the celebrity discussion, it places the automobile in the paper and magazine but it doesn’t place it in the driveway for most. Then again, celebrity endorsements of any product or service do sell said product or service in some form or there wouldn’t be celebrity’s being paid huge sums to do the endorsements in the first place???
When I said yesterday "The Prius is selling to certain very small group of people who "want" a "different looking car" to advertise to people that they are green and are saving the Earth."
what I meant to infer was that "a small number of the overall number of Prius buyers" are in that small group of people who are simply trying to show off their green-ness.
In no way did I mean that the Prius is ONLY selling to that small group of enviro wannabes.
I meant that a small percentage of sales are going to be those who are the "See me and my superior intellect save the earth while you drive the Evil SUV" group.
Of course, NO ONE on this forum falls into that category - but there are some who do......:)
"Find or name me one person who bought a Prius "because Sandra Bullock" drove one'
Statistically it cannot be proven that a majority bought a Prius because of its celebrity status.
Unfortunately such a group are a Silent Majority who would be too afraid to admit the truth of why they bought it(it's the celebrities, stupid) :P
Yes I think the celebrity factor is the key reason for the success of the Prius.
God forbid if Rumsfeld and O Reilly and other right wing celebrities drive the Prius. Then the Prius would monopolize the automobile market. Left wingers and Right wingers Unite!
Honda has opted to do its business differently than Toyota has. So, it isn’t about opportunity after all, or is it?
Another business practice that Honda adopts is release of information as launch date closes in. We’re not hearing about next hybrid from Honda as of now, but do you think there isn’t going to be another in the near future? Honda has the opportunity to talk about its future hybrids, but won't because thats how the company chooses to do business.
To start with Acura RDX is a potential candidate for hybridization, and we would know nothing about its powertrain until it is time. CarConnection reported Honda showcasing a hybrid SUV at NAIAS next month, but again, nobody else seems to know anything about it.
The Insight was a "feeler" car to see if there was ANY MARKET AT ALL for a high MPG Hybrid. I know several families who bought one, but it was not a "family car" by design - it was designed to use as a commuter car by one or two people. That's what people use it for, even today.
Selling the Civic hybrid as an EX was designed to make them money on the Hybrid, or to allow them to "lose less" money. My guess is that the hybrid costs more to make than a loaded EX, so they had to get as close to the EX price as they could.
The Accord hybrid is designed as a "no compromise AT ALL" hybrid which even has MORE HORSEPOWER than the V6 accord, BUT better gas mileage. This is done by Honda to show two things:
1. There is a market for a no compromises Hybrid
2. We can put the IMA system into ANY car in our line.
Honda's goals and Toyota's goals are different, but both have good reasons to do what they are doing. They both have smart people and bright engineers and are in business to MAKE MONEY.
GM hybrid buses in the land of enchantment - snip - The city of Albuquerque set a significant environmental example this week by adding 12 hybrid buses to its mass transit fleet. Albuquerque joins the growing ranks of communities investing in transit buses powered by General Motor's hybrid technology, which offers greater fuel economy and cleaner emissions than conventional diesel buses.
By the end of 2004, there will be 335 GM-hybrid-equipped buses operating in about 18 North American cities. If America's nine largest cities were to replace its existing fleet of 13,000 transit buses with hybrid buses, the nation would save 40 million gallons of fuel a year.
I wonder how many Prius Toyota has to sell to make as much money as GM will on those hybrid buses at $800k a piece.
I hope GM is making a mint from all the hybrid buses and some end up here soon (wish Texas would get into the act) its no fun to be on a street corner only to be sprayed with the exhaust from a bus taking off (which we've all experienced at one time or another) but its still the norm around here (some of our buses have their exhaust pipes pointing up so you don't suck in the fumes for 30 seconds or so ...)
Tri-Met in Portland, Oregon has been running two hybrid buses for a couple of years now. I've not heard any stories about problems with them.
As to whether the technology will work for trucks, I think it might work well for intra-city type delivery vehicles, but long-haul trucks run at closer to peak output more of the time, reducing the savings possible.
Good article. Mazda just keeps building the Rotary. I had a 1976 Cosmo with a rotary engine and liked the smoothness. Never gave me any trouble the 4 years I owned it. They also included the engine in my favorite car for 2005 the E320 CDI.
2005 at dealerships may be wishful thinking at this time. In commercial use, it is possible (Honda FCX is already EPA/CARB approved and running on streets, but not available at dealerships, at least not for a while).
My simple guess is that if Honda puts the same hybrid system in Civic-LX, the sales may double and the cost spent on hybrid R&D may be recovered faster.
After all if 10 people buy a $ 20K hybrid, then 12 people may buy $ 18K hybrid.
As long as there is no Corolla hybrid for $ 18K, Honda may just continue with Civc-Ex.
"You need nearly 3 units of electricity to generate
1 unit of hydrogen. Still that process should
improve. Otherwise no one will go near a
hydrogen gas station. "
My experience in America leads me to think that if there are hydrogen stations with ample fuel and vehicles that use hydrogen, Americans will stop off at the one with the cheapest price per gallon and then drive happily off into the sunset, no matter how much electricity was used to produce the fuel...
"Americans will stop off at the one with the cheapest price per gallon..."
The problem is, how is the electricity produced? If oil products drive the generating stations, the cost of hydrogen will not be likely to be cheaper than the price of oil. Solar technology is not there yet, nor is fusion (I heard a recent quote: "Fifty years ago, fusion power was twenty-five years away - and it still is." David Goodstein, author of "Out of Gas - the End of the Age of Oil".) Goodstein also states: "...you end up using the equivalent of SIX gallons of gasoline to make enough hydrogen to replace ONE gallon of gasoline." (Emphasis mine)
Civic GX is due to hit showrooms for retail sales in spring. And Phill is supposed to alleviate refueling worries.
Coincidentally, Honda is working on a similar but versatile refueling station for its fuel cell vehicle that is a part of Honda fleet sales at this time (FCX). Input CNG, output electricity and hot water for home, and hydrogen for your FCX.
Input CNG, output electricity and hot water for home, and hydrogen for your FCX.
Actually Robert it is even better than that. You just hook up your natural gas line to it. CNG (Compressed Natural Gas), is a complex expensive process in itself. That may be a real break through for the homeowner. He can produce his own electric, heat and refuel his car in one unit. That is exciting....
PHILL is also an exciting product. The real downside to CNG is availability. For the commuter this would be ideal. Charge your Civic over night and have plenty for a few days to a week. It would save a bunch of money as it would be about half the cost of unleaded gas. They are cheaper to run than the best of the hybrids. Plus the EPA says it is the Cleanest car they have ever tested.
"OK, it's not exactly a tax--it's an 'alternative fuels user's permit' : (Note how it applies to the Prius, but not to Honda hybrids which cannot run on only the electric motor.)
.
FLAW (and what I would argue): Prius does NOT run on alternative fuel. Every drop of energy comes from the gasoline tank.
Now if it had a plug, then yes it would be alternate fueled, but a stock Prius runs purely on gasoline. Even the battery is charged with gasoline.
Hey, I didn't write this stupid law. Read the thing. Because the Prius can run for a time under electric power only, it gets lumped into this "alternative fuels" category as defined by the law.
Not necessarily. Ford Escape Hybrid uses a four cylinder engine, but costs more than V6-only counterpart (comparably loaded, Escape Hybrid is $2K more than V6-only Escape).
Full hybrid system does seem to come at an added cost. And if Altima uses something similar (Toyota system), it should too.
The Prius is mentioned in Crighton's new book. The best reference is on page 146.
"Evans turned the ignition of his Prius and it hummed to life. He was pleased to habve thehybrid; the waiting list in Los Angeles to get one was now more thna six months. He'd had to take a light gray one, which wasn't his preferred color, but he loved the car. And he took a quiet satisfaction in noticing how many of them there wewre on the streets these days."
Peter Evans is a young attorney and one of the main characters.
The scary thing about the book besides the overall global warming issue, in light of the recent nationwide disaster, is the man-made destructive tsunami.
January 12, Boston Business Journal - Alternative fuel consortium formed. The Acoustic Fusion Technology Energy Consortium aims at researching acoustic inertial confinement fusion and developing technologies that could replace the use of fossil fuels, coal and nuclear energy. The fusion works by bombarding heavy water, for example, and creating tiny bubbles, or cavities known as voids, of deuterium, which is also known as heavy hydrogen. The process produces significant temperatures and densities that reach a high level, at which point hydrogen fuses with helium. The fusion releases heat, which is used to create steam that powers a turbine to produce electricity. If the consortium is successful, acoustic fusion could produce electricity with virtually no pollution, only giving off helium and heat. The five founding member of the consortium are: Impulse Devices Inc. of Grass Valley, CA; Purdue University in Indiana; the University of Mississippi; Boston University in Massachusetts; and the University of Washington's Center for Industrial and Medical Ultrasound.
NOTE: SULEV/PZEV = The Prius & Civic Hybrids "clean rating" in California = super-ultra clean! And certain liberal environmentalists told me that I was "nuts" to think it was possible to make a SULEV or PZEV diesel-powered cars for California highways. "Diesel is Dirty!" is what they yelled at me, followed by various privately emailed insults like "idiot" or "troll".
Well, take a look for yourself. I was right. I didn't deserve to be insulted.
Comments
That is 100k in 5 years not one year. They plan to sell 100k in 2005 calendar year. They did not take off in sales until the Hollywood types put their stamp of approval on the Prius. Honda hybrid sales are still not very high. The best of the hybrids, the Insight only sold 570 so far this year. Which is half the number they sold by this time in 2003. Honda dumps the HCH in with all the other Civics so it is difficult to know how many they sold. I doubt it was earth shaking.
The previous article by larsb mentions Honda hybrids and celebrities in the same sentence. It just fails to mention any celebs by name that bought a Civic Hybrid. I am sure I would not want one if that gold digging Arianna Huffington owns a Prius. That is a negative ad for the car.
Yes, that's right and that's what the article said and what I said. As for the Insight being the "best of the hybrids", I think the market has spoken on that one and disagrees with you. Honda has reported sales of the HCH and it's close to 24,000 in 2004 through November:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6692898/
Culliganman(Prius still doin it)
1. Celebrity endorsements were not necessary to sell Priuses. There were waiting lists long before the publicity hit. It was dumb luck I got mine off an auto show floor. Otherwise I'd have waited 6 months just like everyone else at the time (Feb 2002). Ironically, Ford put out a press release when actor Chevy Chase received his Escape Hybrid (Chevy prefers Ford?)...
2. The gating factor for Prius sales has been, and continues to be, component availability. The number one constraint is the supply of NiMH batteries. This is affecting all the automakers at present...it's the primary thing holding back production of Escape Hybrids, too.
3. It's certainly true that the Prius, being a unique model, has a certain cachet that the Civic does not. More importantly, at the time of the first generation Prius' release in the US, the Prius was a practical replacement for a compact sedan, while Honda at the time had only the Insight which as a two-seater was not (when I got my Prius the HCH was still vaporware). The Prius was also SULEV rated in its standard config while you had to get the CVT version of the Insight to get that rating. Are any of the current Honda models AT-PZEV rated? The current Prius (and the Escape for that matter) are. Remember, hybrid technology is as much or more about emission reduction than fuel economy for a lot of the people buying them.
The Prius was also SULEV rated in its standard config while you had to get the CVT version of the Insight to get that rating. Are any of the current Honda models AT-PZEV rated? The current Prius (and the Escape for that matter) are. Remember, hybrid technology is as much or more about emission reduction than fuel economy for a lot of the people buying them.
___Every Accord I4 sold in California as well as at least 35 other non-hybrid models can be or possibly can only be purchased as a PZEV. Any hybrid with a PZEV rating gets the -AT rating which the HCH does in both Manual and CVT versions. Cleaner? That depends.
___As for all the celebrity discussion, it places the automobile in the paper and magazine but it doesn’t place it in the driveway for most. Then again, celebrity endorsements of any product or service do sell said product or service in some form or there wouldn’t be celebrity’s being paid huge sums to do the endorsements in the first place???
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6741147/
what I meant to infer was that "a small number of the overall number of Prius buyers" are in that small group of people who are simply trying to show off their green-ness.
In no way did I mean that the Prius is ONLY selling to that small group of enviro wannabes.
I meant that a small percentage of sales are going to be those who are the "See me and my superior intellect save the earth while you drive the Evil SUV" group.
Of course, NO ONE on this forum falls into that category - but there are some who do......:)
Statistically it cannot be proven that a majority bought a Prius because of its celebrity status.
Unfortunately such a group are a Silent Majority who would be too afraid to admit the truth of why they bought it(it's the celebrities, stupid) :P
Yes I think the celebrity factor is the key reason for the success of the Prius.
God forbid if Rumsfeld and O Reilly and other right wing celebrities drive the Prius. Then the Prius would monopolize the automobile market. Left wingers and Right wingers Unite!
"Hybrids (Prius) in the News (how the news that celebs buying them was/is affecting sales)"
http://www.macombdaily.com/stories/122104/bus_wards001.shtml
Honda has opted to do its business differently than Toyota has. So, it isn’t about opportunity after all, or is it?
Another business practice that Honda adopts is release of information as launch date closes in. We’re not hearing about next hybrid from Honda as of now, but do you think there isn’t going to be another in the near future? Honda has the opportunity to talk about its future hybrids, but won't because thats how the company chooses to do business.
To start with Acura RDX is a potential candidate for hybridization, and we would know nothing about its powertrain until it is time. CarConnection reported Honda showcasing a hybrid SUV at NAIAS next month, but again, nobody else seems to know anything about it.
while the
Prius-II (MY 2004) sold nearly 100,000 units in the
1st year itself and this is because it has got nearly
16 cubic feet of space in the hatch. Thats close to
Camry's 16.7 cubic feet.
Also you can load a big object into Prius-II, but not
in Camry.
This is what made Prius-II a hot selling car. I will
not be surprised if it overtakes Camry in sales in a
few years.
As for Honda
------------
They made 1st mistake in Selling Insight (2 seater car)
which no family would like to buy.
Civic-hybrid is a good choice, but they could have
sold the LX version also at $ 18 K, instead of restricting
it to EX version at $ 20 K.
Again the Accord-hybrid they could have brought it in
V4, but they went for V6. They are just having wrong
priorities.
Still nothing is lost, if they launch a Civic-hybrid LX
and Accord-hybrid LX V4, they will be coming close to the
sales of Toyota.
Goodluck for Honda.
Selling the Civic hybrid as an EX was designed to make them money on the Hybrid, or to allow them to "lose less" money. My guess is that the hybrid costs more to make than a loaded EX, so they had to get as close to the EX price as they could.
The Accord hybrid is designed as a "no compromise AT ALL" hybrid which even has MORE HORSEPOWER than the V6 accord, BUT better gas mileage. This is done by Honda to show two things:
1. There is a market for a no compromises Hybrid
2. We can put the IMA system into ANY car in our line.
Honda's goals and Toyota's goals are different, but both have good reasons to do what they are doing. They both have smart people and bright engineers and are in business to MAKE MONEY.
http://snipurl.com/biv8
I wonder how many Prius Toyota has to sell to make as much money as GM will on those hybrid buses at $800k a piece.
Agreed, I wonder if the technology will work for semi-tractor rigs? It may be too expensive for the average truck owner to buy.
As to whether the technology will work for trucks, I think it might work well for intra-city type delivery vehicles, but long-haul trucks run at closer to peak output more of the time, reducing the savings possible.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/041221/detu004_1.html
http://www.wired.com/news/autotech/0,2554,66111,00.html/wn_ascii
---------------
Theres one area where the Germans have near monopoly
is the Premium Sedan market with V12 engines.
Benz (S Class)
BMW (7 Series)
Volkswagen Phaeton
are the leaders.
Lexus has been touting a vehicle with V8 engine combined
with an electric motor that gives the power of a v12 engine.
I guess GS Hybrid is the answer. Capturing that market will give a massive boost to Hybrids and Toyota.
Germans beware.
1 unit of hydrogen. Still that process should
improve. Otherwise no one will go near a
hydrogen gas station.
In a few years, battery may become cheap enough to challenge the fuel cell or combine with it, like in Toyota's FCHV (Fuel Cell Hybrid Vehicle).
After all if 10 people buy a $ 20K hybrid, then 12 people may buy $ 18K hybrid.
As long as there is no Corolla hybrid for $ 18K, Honda may just continue with Civc-Ex.
1 unit of hydrogen. Still that process should
improve. Otherwise no one will go near a
hydrogen gas station. "
My experience in America leads me to think that if there are hydrogen stations with ample fuel and vehicles that use hydrogen, Americans will stop off at the one with the cheapest price per gallon and then drive happily off into the sunset, no matter how much electricity was used to produce the fuel...
The problem is, how is the electricity produced? If oil products drive the generating stations, the cost of hydrogen will not be likely to be cheaper than the price of oil. Solar technology is not there yet, nor is fusion (I heard a recent quote: "Fifty years ago, fusion power was twenty-five years away - and it still is." David Goodstein, author of "Out of Gas - the End of the Age of Oil".) Goodstein also states: "...you end up using the equivalent of SIX gallons of gasoline to make enough hydrogen to replace ONE gallon of gasoline." (Emphasis mine)
jprice
Coincidentally, Honda is working on a similar but versatile refueling station for its fuel cell vehicle that is a part of Honda fleet sales at this time (FCX). Input CNG, output electricity and hot water for home, and hydrogen for your FCX.
Actually Robert it is even better than that. You just hook up your natural gas line to it. CNG (Compressed Natural Gas), is a complex expensive process in itself. That may be a real break through for the homeowner. He can produce his own electric, heat and refuel his car in one unit. That is exciting....
PHILL is also an exciting product. The real downside to CNG is availability. For the commuter this would be ideal. Charge your Civic over night and have plenty for a few days to a week. It would save a bunch of money as it would be about half the cost of unleaded gas. They are cheaper to run than the best of the hybrids. Plus the EPA says it is the Cleanest car they have ever tested.
Ford may increase Escape-Hybrid production from 20,000 to 30,000. But it depends on Sanyo to ramp up battery production.
.
FLAW (and what I would argue): Prius does NOT run on alternative fuel. Every drop of energy comes from the gasoline tank.
Now if it had a plug, then yes it would be alternate fueled, but a stock Prius runs purely on gasoline. Even the battery is charged with gasoline.
The $75 surcharge does not apply.
A prototype of Nissan-Altima.
Its in V4, so it should be more affordable.
http://www.automedia.com/driveSmart/dsm20040201ht/dsm20040201ht.a- sp?affid=
Full hybrid system does seem to come at an added cost. And if Altima uses something similar (Toyota system), it should too.
"Evans turned the ignition of his Prius and it hummed to life. He was pleased to habve thehybrid; the waiting list in Los Angeles to get one was now more thna six months. He'd had to take a light gray one, which wasn't his preferred color, but he loved the car. And he took a quiet satisfaction in noticing how many of them there wewre on the streets these days."
Peter Evans is a young attorney and one of the main characters.
The scary thing about the book besides the overall global warming issue, in light of the recent nationwide disaster, is the man-made destructive tsunami.
Happy New Year,
Mid Cow
It appears the author has never actually driven a Prius, or watched someone start one. There's no "turning" involved.
Culliganman (PRIUS'S ROCK!
(1 year ahead of schedule)
http://www.greencarcongress.com
Lexus: 11,000 Confirmed Pre-Sold Orders for RX 400h
http://www.greencarcongress.com
Improvement to Civic-Hybrid.
Civic coming in 2,3,4 & 5 door versions.
They plan to introduce VCM in Pilot.
Looks like VCM is their low level improvement while IMA is their high level improvement.
But Toyota / Ford is going all out in Full-Hybrid.
This may give a bigger boost to these companies.
Atlast Gas Prices are biting the auto companies.
Source: http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2005/01/10/daily41.html ( http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2005/01/10/daily41.html )
NOTE: SULEV/PZEV = The Prius & Civic Hybrids "clean rating" in California = super-ultra clean! And certain liberal environmentalists told me that I was "nuts" to think it was possible to make a SULEV or PZEV diesel-powered cars for California highways. "Diesel is Dirty!" is what they yelled at me, followed by various privately emailed insults like "idiot" or "troll".
Well, take a look for yourself. I was right. I didn't deserve to be insulted.
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=739- - - - 5
troy
So says Lutz.