"General Motors Corp.'s decision to sell its 20 percent stake in Fuji Heavy Industries will help the troubled U.S. automaker streamline its business and raise cash, auto analysts said Wednesday, but some questioned Toyota Motor Corp.'s purchase of GM's stake.
Toyota said Wednesday it has agreed to buy an 8.7 percent stake in Fuji from GM for about $315 million. Fuji is a rival Japanese automaker that makes Subaru cars.
Erich Merkle, a senior auto analyst with the consulting company IRN Inc., said the alliance will give Toyota access to Subaru's all-wheel-drive technology. Even more significantly, it will give Fuji access to Toyota's hybrid technology, Merkle said.
GM, the world's biggest automaker, plans to sell its remaining 11.4 percent stake and dissolve its alliance with Fuji, the companies said. GM said "there were not enough collaborative projects" to sustain the alliance and that it planned to find other partners and markets in the Asia Pacific region for its resources.
GM will make around $725 million from the sale of its entire share of Fuji, Merrill Lynch analyst John Casesa said in a note to investors. Once GM's sales are completed, Toyota, Japan's biggest automaker, will be the top shareholder in Fuji."
That should really be interesting. Definitely a synergy there! I guess no more Saabarus. I hear the new AWD version of the Prius will be called a Priaru.
"I learned a few years ago, that within ten years, every car Toyota makes will be a hybrid. Maybe every vehicle. I don't remember for sure."
I'm not so sure that hybridizing a very large vehicle like the Sequoia will make any sense. But then, maybe people won't buy large SUVs, and the problem will just go away.
New lighter, more powerful and efficient Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) system with greatly enhanced energy regeneration capability and electric-only operation
There goes the HSD claim to fame over IMA. Maybe Honda will listen and build a plugin hybrid and steal some of the thunder from Toyota.
Toyota has such a head start, I doubt anyone can catch up. Maybe Honda, but their new version of the HCH is still not competetive in that segment. No VSC, bluetooth, keyless, HIDS and others.
Well, the new IMA "electric only" system is not equivalent to the HSD. It only does it at certain rpm ranges, certain speeds, etc.
( A plug-in 5-passenger hybrid car that can get 70+ MPG and can be purchased economically is my dream car. Even if the ICE runs on clean diesel. )
Will be interesting to find out how soon the Hypermilers figure out how to make the new HCH run in "electric-only" mode for huge parts of a tank, and you KNOW they will !!!
Good point. I can't imagine ALL of Toyota's vehicle's being hybrids. Maybe they meant just the cars and a few mid-sized SUV's, etc. What is needed, is variety. Right now we don't have enough. A few cars and two SUV's. Maybe a truck or two. It would be interesting to have an equal number of hybrids and diesels available to see which one gets more play. Being 65, I hope I live long enough to see the battle. But then, on TV the other day, some "expert" said our grand kids will still be driving cars fueled by gasoline. I hope they make them more economical.
Just how DOES someone attain the title EXPERT? Oh well, I'm no expert but I do think that the excellerated level of technology is going to eventualy make the gas engine outmoded by the yr 2016. Why you say? Because we can and we have to in order to avoid the world disaster of extreem oil demand that will cause enough problems for those still using gas & diesel. Time will tell. One other thing....If hybrid technology can improve with better, more advanced batteries, and also the improved possible solar addition, who knows just what the future holds. Railroadjames(the possibilities are endless)
You are talking about the catalytic converters cleaning some of the hydrocarbons, CO and NO2 out of the air because the engine pulls some of the smog laden air through them, correct? I'll agree with that in principle, but I have to question the size of that effect. The smog laden air isn't nearly as densly contaminated as the exhaust coming from the engine so the Cats will be terribly inefficient at cleaning the atmosphere. I haven't seen any data that actually makes the claim that there is a net benefit. Certainly if you're driving through N Dakota, you are still dumping a little more smog causing pollutants into the air than previously exhisted.
Smog is one thing. Greenhouse gasses are another. The greenhouse gasses produced by the engine are inversely proportional to the mileage that you get. The hybrids still produce a fair amount of CO2. Also, the batteries aren't completely sealed (I think -- correct me if I'm wrong) and produce some fairly nasty emissions just sitting.
My only point was that people are not being entirely honest with themselves if they think driving around an efficient car is actually benefiting the environment. It is more accurate to say that you are doing less damage to the environment than if you had bought a less efficient vehicle.
It has nothing to do with being honest with ones self or in principle. PZEV’s are what they are. A PZEV’s MAF and CAT(s) are extremely efficient at controlling F/A mixtures and converting combustion effluents to their much less harmful constituents then the average LEV based automobile. This is not a question, it is a fact.
How many PZEV’s do you think are available or are being driven today in all of North Dakota vs. those available for purchase from a single Honda, Toyota, or Ford dealership in just about any town in California? Thank god for PZEV’s and I only wish they were more widely available I purchased mine from MA. and I reside in IL. It was that important to me and it should be to you, your family, your neighbors, and our nation
As for GHG’s, a hybrid receiving 45 mpg outputs ½ of a non-hybrid receiving 22.5 at the tailpipe. Both have another ~ 9 #’s per gallon on the Crude pump/refining/delivery side of that equation. Maybe you should look into the Ford Focus forums (not just here at Edmunds) sometime to see real world, absolutely horrid FE results by comparison to the 45 - 55 mpg most Prius drivers are receiving as just one example. Battery emissions? Not hardly.
Driving around in an ultra-clean AND efficient car has everything to do with the environment. If you choose a LEV based Dodge Neon and receive a pitiful 20 mpg from it, you are causing all of us more damage then if you would have purchased a Prius or HCH. It is not the absolute damage I am calling out here. It is the damage you may or may not cause by your automobile of choice and your driving habits. In many areas of CA., AZ., IL., N.J. NY., and MA. just to name a few states, a PZEV will clean the air it drives through which is a far cry from what a LEV based automobile or worse will do
Are you glad you don’t live in one of the worst heavily laydened smog polluted cities in America or are you even happier that you have the ability to purchase a car that does more harm to the environment then a PZEV? After all, someone has to breathe the air you and I drive our automobiles through. With that, which automobile do you think is the smart choice for everyone’s sake? Not all hybrids are PZEV’s and not all PZEV’s are hybrids of course but the vast majority of hybrids are cleaner then the vast majority of non-hybrids without question.
I suspect that across the board, Honda may have the best cumulative fuel economy; they don't even build a V-8 (yet). Even their gas guzzler sized vehicles get better MPG than the abysmal offerings from the big 3.
Big 4. It always surprises me that people forget, or don't seem to care, that Toyota sells some of the biggest guzzlers out there. The 4Runner? The Sequoia? The Tundra? Toyota is just as bad, if not worse, than GM in this respect. And I'm also puzzled by the lack of respect Ford gets. They've got a better hybrid SUV than Toyota, more PZEV cars than Toyota, and yet they keep getting hammered. Toyota talks a good game, but they have yet to put their money where their mouth is.
On this page, Toyota and Ford both have the same number of 2005 PZEV or Zero-Emission cars:
The 2006 Explorer V6 is going to be a PZEV (according to the article I read here). So that gives Ford the advantage. And I find it sad that Toyota can't make their hybrid SUVs PZEV either.
Man, take a deep breath and calm down. I never said driving a PZEV vehicle was not the right decision. I'm all for efficiency and I am a fan of hybrids.
I just said that after you drive it, the air is worse off than it was before you drove it. You seem to think that isn't true, but I don't think that you're right. It is a little like telling yourself that you "saved" some money by buying something on sale. You only saved in comparison to paying full price, but you definately spent some money.
I do not know how much more I can add here? The PZEV does indeed do exactly what someone posted earlier in this forum. I do not “seem to think” anything. A quick look down the Tier II/Bin and/or ARB’s emissions tables will tell the rest of the story. Do a google on the PZEV in a smog alert area and you will know the truth.
Ford was the first car manufacturer to offer an entire line in PZEV format (03 Ford Focus) although they have backed off that initiative as of the last 2 years Where did you read that the 06 Explorer would be a PZEV as I would like to bookmark that link.
I was speaking with a GM engineer online the other day who said they did offer a PZEV (Cobalt maybe?) in CA. but I did not see it on Driveclean.ca.org site?
Tradescott, instead of looking it up yourself, you may as well read it from the horse’s mouth
Cars with a PZEV emission rating have such tight pollution controls, and the burning of fuel is so complete, that in very smoggy urban areas, exhaust out of the tailpipe is actually cleaner than the air outside.
Xcel... I remember reading it or possibly hearing it on their new commerical. I hope I'm not mistaken. I'll try and look for the information later and post it. Ford is at least taking a step in the right direction. They are the only US manufacturer that I'd buy a car from. I think the Focus is one of the best values out there but the overall mileage on their 2.3 (?) isn't the greatest in the segment.
I am a huge Ford Focus Fan but given its not so inexpensive price even with Ford Employee discount pricing, lack of safety features, poor resale, and barely ho-hum FE (the Auto is hopelessly lost in the FE department), I had to say no on my last new car purchase
I have to agree as well. I still have not found any infomation regarding the new Explorer engine. I suppose what I read was incorrect. Good luck with the Honda!!
As a result, "the Prius is our hot seller," Winebrenner said. The dealership used to take 10 orders a month for the cars, which are powered by both battery and gas. After Katrina, Winebrenner and other salesmen took 35 orders in September alone. The dealership now has a waiting list for 80 of the cars.
Would you be chuckling if some extremist group keyed your new Prius because they're against imports? Whatever you think of SUV's, the actions of these people are despicable.
I don't own a Prius ....YET. I never mentioned I condoned such behavior. No damage was done to the vehicles. Get a hold of yourself mirth. As far as Prius getting keyed. They have been, but so have been SUVs.
Whatever you think of SUV's, the actions of these people are despicable.
I agree that it is tantamount to anarchy. And there have been millions of dollars worth of vehicles & property destroyed by the likes of ELF. If it becomes class warfare, you know that the Prius is the symbol of anti-SUV folks in the USA. I am hoping that those that drive SUVs are more civilized than the people that would burn someone else's property or even let the air out of their tires.
The message is valid. The methods are not. They know as do all of us that there are MANY MANY MANY MANY thousands of families who own vehicles larger than that family reasonably needs to have, and they are frustrated as to what to do about it, as am I myself personally.
Hitting them in the pocketbook will hopefully get the message across is the point of the method, although the method remains illegal and awful.
I got a chuckle out of the stupidity of it. I also chuckle when people post anti-hybrid sentiment in the forums. I chuckle at a lot of silly things. I may have to adjust my medication.
MANY thousands of families who own vehicles larger than that family reasonably needs to have
How do you feel about people that heat and cool homes with more than 100 square feet per person? Half of my life over the last 25 years has been in a room that is 10 X 12 feet. That is life in the oil field. Running air conditioning for a 1500 square foot house could be considered way more room than the average family needs. I am not going to throw mud on someone's home because it is 5000 square feet and wasting fossil fuel to heat and cool it.
PS I would say the average family spends a lot more on fossil fuel to heat and cool their home than for gas to run the family SUV or mini-van.
Personally, I have no problem with a person who owns nice things. Some nice things consume fuel, you can't get around that. I'm no better than the SUV driver or mansion owner. I'm not changing the world with my hybrid car. But I'm not paying those kind of fuel bills either.
We also own a Grand Caravan for our family of 5 to get around in, and use its utility to occasionally haul things. It can take 4x8 sheets of whatever. When it's time for replacement we'll likely get something smaller, perhaps a Prius or another hybrid and rent for the occasional haul.
But...that has to be my choice which vehicle I drive and should be able to buy what my family needs...in our own assessment....not what somebody else thinks we need.
Wasted energy is wasted energy Gary. Using or wasting energy to heat or cool your home is a personal decision, as is buying a vehicle which is the right size for your family.
Families in America have more control over what they drive than where they live, because the "what to drive" decision is made far more often than the "where to live" decision.
Regardless, a family of 4 or 5 people driving an Excursion or even worse a Hummer is MOST OF THE TIME more vehicle than they need.
Hosts, is there a better Forum for this discussion? Please point Gary and me to it. Thanks !!
Amen.....why vandalize SUVs when your neighbor's lawnmower pollutes more than 100 SUVs, just during the bi-weekly lawn mowing? More environmental benefit would probably come from only selling electric lawnmowers rather than putting fewer SUVs on the road, but once people get a (misguided) cause stuck in their heads.......
This article seems to say that EVERY 2006 Honda Civic is going to be assembled in the UK. Is that kind of odd?
"This is the only Honda specifically designed for Europe, and the only factory where Honda will produce this Civic is here in Swindon," Ken Keir, Honda UK's managing director, tells BBC News.
This is a notable change from the previous Civic model, which was made in 13 factories around the globe."
PS Falconone: I use tinyurl when it matters. If the link is "clickable" then the length of the link is of no consequence......:D
The Corolla is an excellent choice if a hybrid is not for you. A nice thing is that you can get it with stability control. If they equipped it with all the bells and whistles of a Prius it would do even better. Bravo Toyota!!!!
Comments
"General Motors Corp.'s decision to sell its 20 percent stake in Fuji Heavy Industries will help the troubled U.S. automaker streamline its business and raise cash, auto analysts said Wednesday, but some questioned Toyota Motor Corp.'s purchase of GM's stake.
Toyota said Wednesday it has agreed to buy an 8.7 percent stake in Fuji from GM for about $315 million. Fuji is a rival Japanese automaker that makes Subaru cars.
Erich Merkle, a senior auto analyst with the consulting company IRN Inc., said the alliance will give Toyota access to Subaru's all-wheel-drive technology. Even more significantly, it will give Fuji access to Toyota's hybrid technology, Merkle said.
GM, the world's biggest automaker, plans to sell its remaining 11.4 percent stake and dissolve its alliance with Fuji, the companies said. GM said "there were not enough collaborative projects" to sustain the alliance and that it planned to find other partners and markets in the Asia Pacific region for its resources.
GM will make around $725 million from the sale of its entire share of Fuji, Merrill Lynch analyst John Casesa said in a note to investors. Once GM's sales are completed, Toyota, Japan's biggest automaker, will be the top shareholder in Fuji."
I'm not so sure that hybridizing a very large vehicle like the Sequoia will make any sense. But then, maybe people won't buy large SUVs, and the problem will just go away.
Had to laugh at this one!
06 HCH Pricing
There goes the HSD claim to fame over IMA. Maybe Honda will listen and build a plugin hybrid and steal some of the thunder from Toyota.
( A plug-in 5-passenger hybrid car that can get 70+ MPG and can be purchased economically is my dream car. Even if the ICE runs on clean diesel. )
Will be interesting to find out how soon the Hypermilers figure out how to make the new HCH run in "electric-only" mode for huge parts of a tank, and you KNOW they will !!!
Larry
One other thing....If hybrid technology can improve with better, more advanced batteries, and also the improved possible solar addition, who knows just what the future holds.
Railroadjames(the possibilities are endless)
Smog is one thing. Greenhouse gasses are another. The greenhouse gasses produced by the engine are inversely proportional to the mileage that you get. The hybrids still produce a fair amount of CO2. Also, the batteries aren't completely sealed (I think -- correct me if I'm wrong) and produce some fairly nasty emissions just sitting.
My only point was that people are not being entirely honest with themselves if they think driving around an efficient car is actually benefiting the environment. It is more accurate to say that you are doing less damage to the environment than if you had bought a less efficient vehicle.
It has nothing to do with being honest with ones self or in principle. PZEV’s are what they are. A PZEV’s MAF and CAT(s) are extremely efficient at controlling F/A mixtures and converting combustion effluents to their much less harmful constituents then the average LEV based automobile. This is not a question, it is a fact.
How many PZEV’s do you think are available or are being driven today in all of North Dakota vs. those available for purchase from a single Honda, Toyota, or Ford dealership in just about any town in California? Thank god for PZEV’s and I only wish they were more widely available I purchased mine from MA. and I reside in IL. It was that important to me and it should be to you, your family, your neighbors, and our nation
As for GHG’s, a hybrid receiving 45 mpg outputs ½ of a non-hybrid receiving 22.5 at the tailpipe. Both have another ~ 9 #’s per gallon on the Crude pump/refining/delivery side of that equation. Maybe you should look into the Ford Focus forums (not just here at Edmunds) sometime to see real world, absolutely horrid FE results by comparison to the 45 - 55 mpg most Prius drivers are receiving as just one example. Battery emissions? Not hardly.
Driving around in an ultra-clean AND efficient car has everything to do with the environment. If you choose a LEV based Dodge Neon and receive a pitiful 20 mpg from it, you are causing all of us more damage then if you would have purchased a Prius or HCH. It is not the absolute damage I am calling out here. It is the damage you may or may not cause by your automobile of choice and your driving habits. In many areas of CA., AZ., IL., N.J. NY., and MA. just to name a few states, a PZEV will clean the air it drives through which is a far cry from what a LEV based automobile or worse will do
Are you glad you don’t live in one of the worst heavily laydened smog polluted cities in America or are you even happier that you have the ability to purchase a car that does more harm to the environment then a PZEV? After all, someone has to breathe the air you and I drive our automobiles through. With that, which automobile do you think is the smart choice for everyone’s sake? Not all hybrids are PZEV’s and not all PZEV’s are hybrids of course but the vast majority of hybrids are cleaner then the vast majority of non-hybrids without question.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Big 4. It always surprises me that people forget, or don't seem to care, that Toyota sells some of the biggest guzzlers out there. The 4Runner? The Sequoia? The Tundra? Toyota is just as bad, if not worse, than GM in this respect. And I'm also puzzled by the lack of respect Ford gets. They've got a better hybrid SUV than Toyota, more PZEV cars than Toyota, and yet they keep getting hammered. Toyota talks a good game, but they have yet to put their money where their mouth is.
Toyota "balances" their guzzlers with the highest MPG midsize car out there and many small cars with great MPG.
On this page, Toyota and Ford both have the same number of 2005 PZEV or Zero-Emission cars:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ccvl/2005sulevpzevlist.htm?PF=Y
On this page, Toyota and Ford both have the same number of 2005 PZEV or Zero-Emission cars:
The 2006 Explorer V6 is going to be a PZEV (according to the article I read here). So that gives Ford the advantage. And I find it sad that Toyota can't make their hybrid SUVs PZEV either.
I just said that after you drive it, the air is worse off than it was before you drove it. You seem to think that isn't true, but I don't think that you're right. It is a little like telling yourself that you "saved" some money by buying something on sale. You only saved in comparison to paying full price, but you definately spent some money.
If I was any calmer, I would be sleeping
I do not know how much more I can add here? The PZEV does indeed do exactly what someone posted earlier in this forum. I do not “seem to think” anything. A quick look down the Tier II/Bin and/or ARB’s emissions tables will tell the rest of the story. Do a google on the PZEV in a smog alert area and you will know the truth.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Ford was the first car manufacturer to offer an entire line in PZEV format (03 Ford Focus) although they have backed off that initiative as of the last 2 years
I was speaking with a GM engineer online the other day who said they did offer a PZEV (Cobalt maybe?) in CA. but I did not see it on Driveclean.ca.org site?
Tradescott, instead of looking it up yourself, you may as well read it from the horse’s mouth
http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/vsearch/cleansearch_result.asp
Cars with a PZEV emission rating have such tight pollution controls, and the burning of fuel is so complete, that in very smoggy urban areas, exhaust out of the tailpipe is actually cleaner than the air outside.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
I am a huge Ford Focus Fan but given its not so inexpensive price even with Ford Employee discount pricing, lack of safety features, poor resale, and barely ho-hum FE (the Auto is hopelessly lost in the FE department), I had to say no on my last new car purchase
Compact
2006 Ford Focus ZX4 SE = $0.42/mile
Midsize
2005 Honda Accord LX = $0.42/mile
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
I printed out the PDF as the information is very interesting.
http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5658901.html
http://tinyurl.com/e4lsr
Would you be chuckling if some extremist group keyed your new Prius because they're against imports? Whatever you think of SUV's, the actions of these people are despicable.
I agree that it is tantamount to anarchy. And there have been millions of dollars worth of vehicles & property destroyed by the likes of ELF. If it becomes class warfare, you know that the Prius is the symbol of anti-SUV folks in the USA. I am hoping that those that drive SUVs are more civilized than the people that would burn someone else's property or even let the air out of their tires.
You said you got a chuckle out of it. You don't condone it but you think it's funny that this group is vandalizing people's SUVs?
Hitting them in the pocketbook will hopefully get the message across is the point of the method, although the method remains illegal and awful.
Here's a press release about Hydrogen Hybrid Vehicles Set to Showcase Solid H2 Storage
How do you feel about people that heat and cool homes with more than 100 square feet per person? Half of my life over the last 25 years has been in a room that is 10 X 12 feet. That is life in the oil field. Running air conditioning for a 1500 square foot house could be considered way more room than the average family needs. I am not going to throw mud on someone's home because it is 5000 square feet and wasting fossil fuel to heat and cool it.
PS
I would say the average family spends a lot more on fossil fuel to heat and cool their home than for gas to run the family SUV or mini-van.
I'm no better than the SUV driver or mansion owner. I'm not changing the world with my hybrid car. But I'm not paying those kind of fuel bills either.
We also own a Grand Caravan for our family of 5 to get around in, and use its utility to occasionally haul things. It can take 4x8 sheets of whatever.
When it's time for replacement we'll likely get something smaller, perhaps a Prius or another hybrid and rent for the occasional haul.
But...that has to be my choice which vehicle I drive and should be able to buy what my family needs...in our own assessment....not what somebody else thinks we need.
Families in America have more control over what they drive than where they live, because the "what to drive" decision is made far more often than the "where to live" decision.
Regardless, a family of 4 or 5 people driving an Excursion or even worse a Hummer is MOST OF THE TIME more vehicle than they need.
Hosts, is there a better Forum for this discussion? Please point Gary and me to it. Thanks !!
Now...some interesting hybrid news!!
http://tinyurl.com/bzf99
http://www.autoextremist.com/page6.shtml
Thank you!
This article has a LOT of info about all the new 2006 cars by all makers, with the new HCH in there too.
This article seems to say that EVERY 2006 Honda Civic is going to be assembled in the UK. Is that kind of odd?
"This is the only Honda specifically designed for Europe, and the only factory where Honda will produce this Civic is here in Swindon," Ken Keir, Honda UK's managing director, tells BBC News.
This is a notable change from the previous Civic model, which was made in 13 factories around the globe."
PS Falconone: I use tinyurl when it matters. If the link is "clickable" then the length of the link is of no consequence......:D
The Corolla is an excellent choice if a hybrid is not for you. A nice thing is that you can get it with stability control. If they equipped it with all the bells and whistles of a Prius it would do even better. Bravo Toyota!!!!