Corolla is best for a good reason. Good reliable high mileage transportation. The VWs are nice if you want to be on a first name basis with your service advisor. That's why their sales numbers (aside from TDI) are so abysmal.
Not an official one mandated by the NTSBl. Merely a voluntary notification to owners to update their software. Those in the know have already had this done..
" TOKYO -(Dow Jones)- Toyota Motor Corp. (7203.TO) will recall 160,000 units of its hybrid Prius car worldwide due to possible problems with the engine, Kyodo News reported Friday.
These problems may cause the engine to stop while driving, and Toyota will repair all the cars recalled free of charge, Kyodo reported. "
A recall is one mandated by the NTSB. You know.. the ones that GM and Ford have had recently?? This is merely a TSB or SSC anyway you look at it. Hybrids are here to stay.. might as well get used to it while all us hybrid drivers gloat about our wonderful cars. Can't wait to get mine!!!!!!
What do you attest to non hybrid recalls? Are they non fallable? You can kick, scream and whine all you want... hybrids are here to stay. I know the hybrid folks are quite smug about their cars, but you just have to get over it. They can't help but be giddy with the price of gas today.
...that there has been a lot of comments on this forum that have implied that hybrid tech is so good that it will actually require less maintenance and have fewer repairs than ICE autos, and I think this refutes that. I'm not saying that hybrids are dangerous or more unreliable than ICE cars, but that people who are concerned about hybrid repair costs and the increased complexity do in fact have a reasonable concern.
Every car is complex today. To say that a hybrid is more complex than a 7 series Bimmer would be incorrect. Overall the reliability of Toyota has convinced me otherwise. That's why in 12 weeks I will be a proud hybrid owner. The technology is here to stay as evidenced by other manufacturer's comittment to bringing hybrid vehicles to market. Everyone wants IN now.
They can't help but be giddy with the price of gas today.
Why? Do they lack intelligence? MPG of a hybrid does not increase as fuel price increases. Are they happy to be spending more money on gas each time they fill up the tank. Do hybrid owners become "giddy" when they see the negative effect on the economy created by high fuel prices?
They become giddy when they fill up twice a month and have money left over for other things. My sister spends about 60 bucks a month in gas now with her hybrid. They become giddy when they see they're getting over 45mpg without even trying. Do you have anything against people being happy?
Moparbad, nobody is glad for the negative effects of high fuel costs.
Back in Jan'04 I bought my hybrid car because fuel cost trends showed hard times ahead. (Gas was $1.25/G then) Sure, I could have bought a much less efficient vehicle but I choose the hybrid. It's planning ahead with wise choices.
Do I feel better that I'm re fueling every 900 miles and pumping 13 gallons rather than driving 250 and pumping 16? You bet, because I prepared my family for it by purchasing the proper car and took the time and effort to learn how to drive it for maximum efficiency.
If you see my happy nature at the gas pump while all other faces are glum, you'll know why. It's not that the fuel is so expensive, but because I've taken most of the sting out of it with wise choices. I'm beating it and yes, it feels good and is why I strive for my next +900 mile tank.
Very good post. Nice to see that you had the insight (no pun) to purchase a hybrid. Glad you're enjoying the fuel savings and Honda bulletproof reliability.
Why are we giddy? Come on .....imagine pulling into a gas-station next to an Excursion or Hummer (true story) They spend over 12 minutes pumping 37 gallons of gas (do the math)($3.00 X 37 = $ 111.00) I, on the other hand, spend less than 3 minutes and pump 8 gallons of gas (do the math)($3.00 X 8 = $24.00) Are you getting the gist of this? If not, then you must have $$$$$$ to burn! I don't and I absolutely do a heck of a lot of smiling @ the pumps. I proudly enjoy my bumper stickers.....Screw O.P.E.C......"FRIENDS DON'T LET FRIENDS DRIVE SUV'S"....(Lic. Plate...54 MPG) Bottom Line: A Prius makes life less painfull and, these days, with all the camel dung that has been coming our way, it is good to have the upper hand on one of life's aggrevations. :shades: Railroadjames (don't worry...be happy...own a hybrid)
The answer is obvious to intelligent people. When you own a vehicle that goes farther on a gallon of gas, the price per mile rises more slowly than a less fuel efficient vehicle. Hybrid owners may become giddy when they think of how much more they could be spending to keep their former vehicle rolling. Your implication that rising fuel prices are enough to make anyone grumpy is, indeed, valid. However, in our competitive world, each of us likes to think that we are better off than the driver at the other gas pump. When fuel prices are driven higher by increased demand and lower supply (refer to your economics 101 text book), it only makes sense to do what you can to decrease demand. Orr national economy is affected by the fuel price situation, but not everyone is hurting. The oil companies are enjoying double digit increases in profits. As long as their pal George W. is working on their side, they will enjoy these hard times.
Thanks. Gas prices have more than doubled since I bought my car in '04. If trends continue we could be paying $5-6 in a few short years.
One of our good friends made the mistake last summer of buying a new Expedition and now regrets it to death. They paid over twice what I did for my HCH and now the pump is killing them.
Don't worry; I get giddy every time I ride by a hybrid owner on my bicycle or electric scooter, and I see them put in their credit card to buy gas at all. Get with the real "green" program. Move closer to work; sell the hybirid, and help us all out by not wasting infinitely more gas than what the real "green" folks use by riding their bikes. I just love to taunt those hybid fatcats. They spend big bucks to buy the vehicles, and then still have to pump the expensive gas into them to keep them running!
Great idea! In the summer I actually ride my bike to work (ten miles). What am I supposed to do when I have to visit my mom and dad who live 33 miles away? You got it.... I drive. In an optimum world people can't find work close to home. Soooo.... I end up buying a Prius with all the bells and whistles and spend 27k. Then I get my nice fat juicy tax credit from Uncle Sam. Then, I cruise the highway at 70 and grin when I see the MFD display an average of 46.3. Life is nice in a hybrid!!!
This recall is MORE than a software upgrade. There is mechanical work that will occur also according to my dealer. There will be work perfomed on the transaxle to prevent water from getting in to a connector.
A recall is mandated by the NTSB. This is not a RECALL in that sense. Whatever the case may be, at least they are addressing it and have found a solution. I read it was 75k cars. Can't imagine that 75k cars are in Europe and beyond. Seems to high. I also read that there was some type of waterproof grease they were going to apply. Not sure where though.
"A recall is mandated by the NTSB. This is not a RECALL in that sense. "
The articles I read said that the NTSB dropped it's investigation when Toyota said they would recall the vehicle. In my book, that is a recall - instituted by Toyata rather than NTSB, but still a recall. All one can say (to Toyota's credit) is that they were not forced to recall the Prius.
Your view is well thought out and I respect your right to hold it. ( Paraphrasing Ben Franklin ). However the world isnt coming to an end.. that's a bit of hyperbole wouldnt you say?
You might deny it but most Prius owners do Average ~ 48-51 mpg on an annual basis on a depending on lots of factors. Where they live ( mountains? seaside? Fla or Minn? ) Do they drive lots of miles 25K plus or just under 10K? Is their driving in LA or commuting into/from NYC or on the Beltway around DC or is it in one of a thousand small suburbs - shuttling family from one place to another in 2 mile trips? Do they try to maximize the benefits or drive as they have in the past?
This is reality: If one drives only to the store/office/school and back in one or two short trips of 10 min or less that driver might very well get ONLY 35 mpg per trip and over a year as well. As opposed say to a 4c Camry which will avg 25 mpg for the same trips.
If one uses the Prius/Civic to it's fullest advantage and drives 15 miles each way on the Interstate to work and back and uses the family van the rest of the time. That driver likely will get 45 mpg on average. As opposed to the same 4c Camry getting 33 mpg.
If like me, you drive 50000 miles each year to and from work... I will average 51 mpg ( 47 mpg in winter and 53 in the warmer months ). I presently drive a 4c Camry most of the time but use a Prius whenever I can - and it doesnt matter whether its a Gen1 or Gen2 Prius. My Camry gets 30-35 mpg every day mile after mile depending on the weather.
If you want to pollute that is certainly your option for the time being but it certainly sheds some light on your..????
This much is certain though, if you own one of the following: F150/Silverado/Tundra/Titan/Ram Escalade/Expedition/Sequoia Crown Vic/300M You will pay anywhere from $1000 to $2000 more every year than a Prius owner will for the right to drive. But that is your choice and I will defend your right to do so. It's why there are so many vehicle choices in the US.
Ooops. Factor IN depreciation now. I asked our buyer to look to buy an '04/05 Used Prius at auction... YIKES.. $2K off ... STICKER!! for a 1 yr old '04 w/ 14K miles and there was ONE!
It's not the normal case now but if you buy one you might sell it immediately on Ebay at a profit.. Depreciation? How about appreciation?
Interesting factoid about the Corolla. Back in '02 just as the new generation came out the product developers promised the top Managment at Toyota that with this model they would pass the Civic in annual sales. Sept '05 Sales YTD 1 F150 695K units 2 Silverado 570K 3 Camry 336K 4 Ram 318K 5 Accord 292K 6 Corolla 265K 7 Civic 234K 8 Altima 205K
As the Camry pulls away from the Accord.. does the Accord see the Corolla nipping on its heels. The Corolla is closer to the Accord than it is to the Civic through 9 months.
I cannot deny the Prius II’s almost negative depreciation over the last year and a half but over 5 years, it will break down. Edmunds TCO numbers are Edmunds numbers including fuel and deprecation costs if you choose to dismiss them or not? All I wanted to point out is if you want a cleaner emitting, larger, far better handling, safer, far more comfortable, much more performance, and far less expensive when comparably equipped automobile, you shouldn’t factor out the Accord is all.
In a Prius II, I think it should be worth an ~ 65 lmpg year round here near Chicago on a mostly Interstate drive. In the Accord, ~ 45 lmpg year round. The numbers were close but not close enough given the price I picked up the PZEV based EX-L w/ NAVI for earlier this spring. Then again, if any of us had known we would be paying $3.00/per, we could have purchased the Prius II at sticker and sold it for darn near sticker after 20,000 miles and be all the more happier
Xcel... Many of my co-workers have Accords with the 4cyl engine. Most are 2002-2004 models. They ALL love their cars but none of them gets 45mpg with them. Most tell me they're getting in the high 20's in a mixed suburban environment. There is no denying that the average driver will double that in a Prius II. I would like to see Honda add a hatch hybrid to their offerings. That would make the playing field more level.
It will be very interesting to see what a mid-mileage hybrid will fetch five years from the model date (mid 2008 for arguments sake). It's all speculation at this point. One thing is certain and that is that gasoline is parked at (2.50 - 3.00) for the next quarter.
Less pain is nothing new but those of us that look into the details see even the 05 HCH being the lesser overall cost of the three mentioned with the Corolla and regular Civic costing even less per Edmunds! The Accord is the least expensive midsized automobile on the list when you look at Edmunds TCO’s and this alone is a reason to consider an Accord vs. the Prius II. It is the total cost that we end up paying after 75,000 miles, not how much less we pay at the pump at each and every fill up where the real pain is felt. If the Accord doesn’t work for you because it is not pleasing to the eye, so be it but to dismiss it with its overall lower costs, higher performance, higher safety ratings, more comfort, larger size, more amenities, and less overall expense is a mistake.
The TCO's of all my automobiles are far less then Edmunds just as an average Prius II driver should see the same but it is the comparison at $0.46/mile vs. $0.42/mile that many seem to dismiss even with gasoline at $3.00 per.
Nobody receives a 65 lmpg in a Prius II either (there is one but if you look at his combined, it isn’t even close ) but I believe that is where it would end up given the 47.9 lmpg of the 05 Accord right now. The average driver is probably receiving in the mid to high 40’s in the Prius II and mid to high 20’s in the Accord I4. Edmunds Fuel cost numbers are based of an ~ EPA combined (45/55%) giving the Prius II an lmpg over 5 years and 75,000 miles of ~ 56 mpg IIRC. The Accord is based off ~ 28 mpg doing the same. Which of the two fuel cost TCO’s are closer to real world according to Edmunds?
As for resale, that is an interesting question mark 5 + years down the road. $3.00 per 5 years ago will not make the average driver bat an eye but if PO is really at our door step, who knows? The Prius II might actually hold onto a far greater % of its original MSRP then the Accord or anything else but it is a gamble none the less. I can only hope the negative depreciation will continue but when someone tries to sell me a 2004 Prius II w/ 75,000 miles on the ticker for $23K in the year 2010, I think I will pass.
There were so many reasons I bought the '04 Toyota Prius but one in particular that seems to have been overlooked is the ...STYLING. This midsized hybrid simply gave me a good, stylish car that had the functional solutions to carry 5 people reasonably well and then there's those flip-down seats. Very useful. The Prius gives me a sense of having a car that sold itself with its distictive looks. So don't underestimate the popularity of this hybrid. It looks very smart in more ways than one. Railroadjames(whenever I see a Prius I say "that's what I like to see")
I'd have to agree with the styling as well as the fact that it has a hatch. I also like all the gadgets and especially the smart entry. An accord is nice, not just for me. As far as safety is concerned, the Prius is extremely safe. To compare one against the other doesn't make much sense. Both have a 5 star US safety rating. The Prius did extremely well in the European crash tests. One other thing is that the Prius has stability control and you can't get that in an accord. That is a MUST for me. Also... Accords are stolen much more often than Prius. For me it's a no brainer. I also am going to get close to a 3k tax credit.
Prius II vs. Accord’s Passenger/Luggage Volume
96/16 cu. ft. vs. 103/14 cu. ft.
Not quite the same
EPA:
Prius II vs. Accord’s emissions
Tier II/Bin3 vs. Tier II/Bin2
Not quite the same
Toyota Echo’s - non-independent rear suspension and McPherson struts on the Prius II compared to the Accord’s double wishbone front and rear make the Prius II handle a bit more awkward under all circumstances by comparison
Not quite the same
The Accord in all trims include side and side curtains std. but the EX-L w/ NAVI’s std. XM and higher quality sound, more usable NAVI, heated - power everything leather seats, tilt/telescopic steering, windows powered down via Key/embedded FOB, and powered sunroof is what sold it vs. package D of the Prius II for ~ $3,600 less.
Not quite the same
The Prius II should be a less stolen car but the current gen Accord has its own version of theft protection via Immobilizer key.
Just make sure you look at the cost in $/mile of owning a Prius II vs. everything else from multiple angles is all. It will without question trounce the Accord and just about anything out there in the FE department but at a relatively steep price with the loss of other std. features, amenities, and size many may deem necessary in today’s semi-lux/lux automobile purchase.
Finally, the newsies continually harp on the gas savings vs. a less expensive, comparable automobiles instead of looking at the entire package as Edmunds does with the TCO’s. I wonder why?
I also want to add the following in favor of the Prius II The huge FE savings of a Prius II over and above almost everything else should mean a lot more then just $’s saved at the pump or $’s out of your pocket on the day of purchase. Think along the lines of the US’ oil dependency/Balance of Trade/GHG emissions. These 3 non-personal financial/non-financial items should be a consideration in any automobile purchase and in this case, the Prius II is the exact right choice for most.
Thanks for your analysis. I'll let you know how I'm enjoying my Prius after Jan which is when I anticipate delivery. Having driven my sister's Prius as well as renting one, I'm truly sold on the car. I drive 25 miles RT to work on non enthusiastic flat smooth roads. This will be my weekday car. My weekend driver will be the new Miata or something else... haven't decided yet.
I will be in palm desert over thanksgiving and using a rental, who did u rent a prius from if i can ask,,, it might be fun to drive one for a week... thanks
I rented directly from the dealer as they have TRAC (Toyota Rent A Car). I originally tried a 2003 which was nice, but something I would never buy. The dealer had a Salsa Red which I rented for four days while at my country retreat near the Poconos (NE PA). Try and call some Toyota dealers to see if they have one for rental. If not, try Enterprise as I recall reading that they have them as well. It's a good way to find out if the car is for you. I loved it!
I did the same. Try before you buy. Long term tests really help with a decision you may regret. No regrets here after 30k plus miles and coming up on two years of ownership for my 04 Prius.
Ford Motor Co. plans to speed up hybrid vehicle production
The No. 2 U.S. auto maker intends to offer hybrid systems on half its models, Ford Chairman William Clay Ford Jr. If demand warrants, he said, Ford will build up to 250,000 gas-electric hybrids a year by 2010 _ a tenfold increase from its current production.
It's a funny thing. The minute someone wants to discuss the Prius, out come the calculators. Everything else is considered "off topic" to the discussion moderators, and the totals are rendered as though nothing else in the world mattered to the buyer.
Then, when you mention SUV's, the calculators quickly get turned off, and the industry begins arguing in terms of theories like "the maximum use imperative" as though how much crap you can fit in your vehicle is the only thing that defines "use".
It's as though the industry itself is trying to decide for us the terms under which we ourselves would argue for our purchase decision.
If you want to know the truth, buying a Prius was an extraordinarily emotional decision for me and my wife. It was a big "screw you" directed toward some people whom we believe to be fundamentally and fatally wrong.
And while it makes me cringe horribly to suggest it, we Prius owners are probably more similar to Hummer drivers than anyone on the road, and secretly I even respect them more than the average driver when I consider, "now there's a guy who knows how to communicate his values and take a stand!"
I wouldn't like to consider myself similar to a Hummer driver. I have nothing against someone who can afford to fill up a tank and not care less about getting 11 mpg. If they can afford that and that's what they need, that is their prerogative.
I too see your point of view. I do how ever find it hard to see anything but a vague comparison to Hybrid owners & Hummer owners. Maybe I just don't get it with the Hummer mentality. Hybrids (Prius especially) have risen above the experimental stages to arrive at real & viable transportation. Not only fuel efficiancy and phenominal eco friendly stats but a run of vehicles that are the watch word to the future needs of planet earth. Isn't it interesting that the "BIG THREE" have swung advertising to emphasize their great "MPGS"? Back to the comprison clash....I can't even imagine anyone feeling a rush of excitment when pumping 37 gallons of gas into any of the "Monsters" Smart people just can't stand being anything but frugle. Paying over $100.00 for a 4-5 day fillup would just give me ulcers. By the way, I laugh a bit at Harly riders that manage less than 30 mpgs on a motorcycle. Where's the advantage in that? Different strokes I suppose. Railroadjames(why not hybrids?)
Comments
Sure, if you want last place. 4 different VW Diesel and 5 Hybrid are better.
bells and whistles of a Prius Sunroof? Leather Interior? Heated Seats?
These problems may cause the engine to stop while driving, and Toyota will repair all the cars recalled free of charge, Kyodo reported. "
http://tinyurl.com/bn6qs
But other than this recall, hybrid technology is completely infallible. Until the next recall I guess.
Why? Do they lack intelligence? MPG of a hybrid does not increase as fuel price increases. Are they happy to be spending more money on gas each time they fill up the tank. Do hybrid owners become "giddy" when they see the negative effect on the economy created by high fuel prices?
Back in Jan'04 I bought my hybrid car because fuel cost trends showed hard times ahead. (Gas was $1.25/G then) Sure, I could have bought a much less efficient vehicle but I choose the hybrid. It's planning ahead with wise choices.
Do I feel better that I'm re fueling every 900 miles and pumping 13 gallons rather than driving 250 and pumping 16?
You bet, because I prepared my family for it by purchasing the proper car and took the time and effort to learn how to drive it for maximum efficiency.
If you see my happy nature at the gas pump while all other faces are glum, you'll know why.
It's not that the fuel is so expensive, but because I've taken most of the sting out of it with wise choices. I'm beating it and yes, it feels good and is why I strive for my next +900 mile tank.
Bottom Line: A Prius makes life less painfull and, these days, with all the camel dung that has been coming our way, it is good to have the upper hand on one of life's aggrevations. :shades:
Railroadjames (don't worry...be happy...own a hybrid)
Hybrid owners may become giddy when they think of how much more they could be spending to keep their former vehicle rolling.
Your implication that rising fuel prices are enough to make anyone grumpy is, indeed, valid. However, in our competitive world, each of us likes to think that we are better off than the driver at the other gas pump.
When fuel prices are driven higher by increased demand and lower supply (refer to your economics 101 text book), it only makes sense to do what you can to decrease demand. Orr national economy is affected by the fuel price situation, but not everyone is hurting. The oil companies are enjoying double digit increases in profits. As long as their pal George W. is working on their side, they will enjoy these hard times.
Gas prices have more than doubled since I bought my car in '04.
If trends continue we could be paying $5-6 in a few short years.
One of our good friends made the mistake last summer of buying a new Expedition and now regrets it to death.
They paid over twice what I did for my HCH and now the pump is killing them.
I can't imagine how it will be in a few years.
This is definitely a RECALL.
The articles I read said that the NTSB dropped it's investigation when Toyota said they would recall the vehicle. In my book, that is a recall - instituted by Toyata rather than NTSB, but still a recall. All one can say (to Toyota's credit) is that they were not forced to recall the Prius.
2005 Honda Accord LX = $0.42/mile
2005 Toyota Prius II = $0.46/mile
Including fuel costs at today’s prices
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Oh, they are going to get greased for sure! :surprise:
You might deny it but most Prius owners do Average ~ 48-51 mpg on an annual basis on a depending on lots of factors.
Where they live ( mountains? seaside? Fla or Minn? )
Do they drive lots of miles 25K plus or just under 10K?
Is their driving in LA or commuting into/from NYC or on the Beltway around DC or is it in one of a thousand small suburbs - shuttling family from one place to another in 2 mile trips?
Do they try to maximize the benefits or drive as they have in the past?
This is reality: If one drives only to the store/office/school and back in one or two short trips of 10 min or less that driver might very well get ONLY 35 mpg per trip and over a year as well. As opposed say to a 4c Camry which will avg 25 mpg for the same trips.
If one uses the Prius/Civic to it's fullest advantage and drives 15 miles each way on the Interstate to work and back and uses the family van the rest of the time. That driver likely will get 45 mpg on average. As opposed to the same 4c Camry getting 33 mpg.
If like me, you drive 50000 miles each year to and from work... I will average 51 mpg ( 47 mpg in winter and 53 in the warmer months ). I presently drive a 4c Camry most of the time but use a Prius whenever I can - and it doesnt matter whether its a Gen1 or Gen2 Prius. My Camry gets 30-35 mpg every day mile after mile depending on the weather.
If you want to pollute that is certainly your option for the time being but it certainly sheds some light on your..????
This much is certain though, if you own one of the following:
F150/Silverado/Tundra/Titan/Ram
Escalade/Expedition/Sequoia
Crown Vic/300M
You will pay anywhere from $1000 to $2000 more every year than a Prius owner will for the right to drive. But that is your choice and I will defend your right to do so. It's why there are so many vehicle choices in the US.
PS: Please dont drive in my town
kdhspyder
It's not the normal case now but if you buy one you might sell it immediately on Ebay at a profit.. Depreciation? How about appreciation?
:shades:
kdhspyder
Sept '05 Sales YTD
1 F150 695K units
2 Silverado 570K
3 Camry 336K
4 Ram 318K
5 Accord 292K
6 Corolla 265K
7 Civic 234K
8 Altima 205K
As the Camry pulls away from the Accord.. does the Accord see the Corolla nipping on its heels. The Corolla is closer to the Accord than it is to the Civic through 9 months.
kdhspyder
I cannot deny the Prius II’s almost negative depreciation over the last year and a half but over 5 years, it will break down. Edmunds TCO numbers are Edmunds numbers including fuel and deprecation costs if you choose to dismiss them or not? All I wanted to point out is if you want a cleaner emitting, larger, far better handling, safer, far more comfortable, much more performance, and far less expensive when comparably equipped automobile, you shouldn’t factor out the Accord is all.
In a Prius II, I think it should be worth an ~ 65 lmpg year round here near Chicago on a mostly Interstate drive. In the Accord, ~ 45 lmpg year round. The numbers were close but not close enough given the price I picked up the PZEV based EX-L w/ NAVI for earlier this spring. Then again, if any of us had known we would be paying $3.00/per, we could have purchased the Prius II at sticker and sold it for darn near sticker after 20,000 miles and be all the more happier
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Less pain is nothing new but those of us that look into the details see even the 05 HCH being the lesser overall cost of the three mentioned with the Corolla and regular Civic costing even less per Edmunds! The Accord is the least expensive midsized automobile on the list when you look at Edmunds TCO’s and this alone is a reason to consider an Accord vs. the Prius II. It is the total cost that we end up paying after 75,000 miles, not how much less we pay at the pump at each and every fill up where the real pain is felt. If the Accord doesn’t work for you because it is not pleasing to the eye, so be it but to dismiss it with its overall lower costs, higher performance, higher safety ratings, more comfort, larger size, more amenities, and less overall expense is a mistake.
05 HCH = $0.40/mile
The TCO's of all my automobiles are far less then Edmunds just as an average Prius II driver should see the same but it is the comparison at $0.46/mile vs. $0.42/mile that many seem to dismiss even with gasoline at $3.00 per.
Nobody receives a 65 lmpg in a Prius II either (there is one but if you look at his combined, it isn’t even close ) but I believe that is where it would end up given the 47.9 lmpg of the 05 Accord right now. The average driver is probably receiving in the mid to high 40’s in the Prius II and mid to high 20’s in the Accord I4. Edmunds Fuel cost numbers are based of an ~ EPA combined (45/55%) giving the Prius II an lmpg over 5 years and 75,000 miles of ~ 56 mpg IIRC. The Accord is based off ~ 28 mpg doing the same. Which of the two fuel cost TCO’s are closer to real world according to Edmunds?
As for resale, that is an interesting question mark 5 + years down the road. $3.00 per 5 years ago will not make the average driver bat an eye but if PO is really at our door step, who knows? The Prius II might actually hold onto a far greater % of its original MSRP then the Accord or anything else but it is a gamble none the less. I can only hope the negative depreciation will continue but when someone tries to sell me a 2004 Prius II w/ 75,000 miles on the ticker for $23K in the year 2010, I think I will pass.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Railroadjames(whenever I see a Prius I say "that's what I like to see")
NHTSA:
04 Toyota Prius II:
Frontal D/P: 5*/4* Side F/R: 4*/4* Rollover: 4*
04 Honda Accord:
Frontal D/P: 5*/5* Side F/R: 4*/5* Rollover: 4*
Not quite the same
EPA:
Prius II vs. Accord’s Passenger/Luggage Volume
96/16 cu. ft. vs. 103/14 cu. ft.
Not quite the same
EPA:
Prius II vs. Accord’s emissions
Tier II/Bin3 vs. Tier II/Bin2
Not quite the same
Toyota Echo’s - non-independent rear suspension and McPherson struts on the Prius II compared to the Accord’s double wishbone front and rear make the Prius II handle a bit more awkward under all circumstances by comparison
Not quite the same
The Accord in all trims include side and side curtains std. but the EX-L w/ NAVI’s std. XM and higher quality sound, more usable NAVI, heated - power everything leather seats, tilt/telescopic steering, windows powered down via Key/embedded FOB, and powered sunroof is what sold it vs. package D of the Prius II for ~ $3,600 less.
Not quite the same
The Prius II should be a less stolen car but the current gen Accord has its own version of theft protection via Immobilizer key.
Just make sure you look at the cost in $/mile of owning a Prius II vs. everything else from multiple angles is all. It will without question trounce the Accord and just about anything out there in the FE department but at a relatively steep price with the loss of other std. features, amenities, and size many may deem necessary in today’s semi-lux/lux automobile purchase.
Finally, the newsies continually harp on the gas savings vs. a less expensive, comparable automobiles instead of looking at the entire package as Edmunds does with the TCO’s. I wonder why?
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
I also want to add the following in favor of the Prius II The huge FE savings of a Prius II over and above almost everything else should mean a lot more then just $’s saved at the pump or $’s out of your pocket on the day of purchase. Think along the lines of the US’ oil dependency/Balance of Trade/GHG emissions. These 3 non-personal financial/non-financial items should be a consideration in any automobile purchase and in this case, the Prius II is the exact right choice for most.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Toyota is to offer the largest range of used hybrid petrol/electric vehicles available in New Zealand.
They will be marketed as Signature Hybrid within the well-established Signature Class brand which sells guaranteed used vehicles.
Ford Motor Co. plans to speed up hybrid vehicle production
The No. 2 U.S. auto maker intends to offer hybrid systems on half its models, Ford Chairman William Clay Ford Jr.
If demand warrants, he said, Ford will build up to 250,000 gas-electric hybrids a year by 2010 _ a tenfold increase from its current production.
Then, when you mention SUV's, the calculators quickly get turned off, and the industry begins arguing in terms of theories like "the maximum use imperative" as though how much crap you can fit in your vehicle is the only thing that defines "use".
It's as though the industry itself is trying to decide for us the terms under which we ourselves would argue for our purchase decision.
If you want to know the truth, buying a Prius was an extraordinarily emotional decision for me and my wife. It was a big "screw you" directed toward some people whom we believe to be fundamentally and fatally wrong.
And while it makes me cringe horribly to suggest it, we Prius owners are probably more similar to Hummer drivers than anyone on the road, and secretly I even respect them more than the average driver when I consider, "now there's a guy who knows how to communicate his values and take a stand!"
Isn't it interesting that the "BIG THREE" have swung advertising to emphasize their great "MPGS"?
Back to the comprison clash....I can't even imagine anyone feeling a rush of excitment when pumping 37 gallons of gas into any of the "Monsters" Smart people just can't stand being anything but frugle. Paying over $100.00 for a 4-5 day fillup would just give me ulcers. By the way, I laugh a bit at Harly riders that manage less than 30 mpgs on a motorcycle. Where's the advantage in that? Different strokes I suppose.
Railroadjames(why not hybrids?)
Thankfully, however, I'm the one who's right.