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Sure, if you want last place. 4 different VW Diesel and 5 Hybrid are better.
bells and whistles of a Prius Sunroof? Leather Interior? Heated Seats?
These problems may cause the engine to stop while driving, and Toyota will repair all the cars recalled free of charge, Kyodo reported. "
http://tinyurl.com/bn6qs
But other than this recall, hybrid technology is completely infallible. Until the next recall I guess.
Why? Do they lack intelligence? MPG of a hybrid does not increase as fuel price increases. Are they happy to be spending more money on gas each time they fill up the tank. Do hybrid owners become "giddy" when they see the negative effect on the economy created by high fuel prices?
Back in Jan'04 I bought my hybrid car because fuel cost trends showed hard times ahead. (Gas was $1.25/G then) Sure, I could have bought a much less efficient vehicle but I choose the hybrid. It's planning ahead with wise choices.
Do I feel better that I'm re fueling every 900 miles and pumping 13 gallons rather than driving 250 and pumping 16?
You bet, because I prepared my family for it by purchasing the proper car and took the time and effort to learn how to drive it for maximum efficiency.
If you see my happy nature at the gas pump while all other faces are glum, you'll know why.
It's not that the fuel is so expensive, but because I've taken most of the sting out of it with wise choices. I'm beating it and yes, it feels good and is why I strive for my next +900 mile tank.
Bottom Line: A Prius makes life less painfull and, these days, with all the camel dung that has been coming our way, it is good to have the upper hand on one of life's aggrevations. :shades:
Railroadjames (don't worry...be happy...own a hybrid)
Hybrid owners may become giddy when they think of how much more they could be spending to keep their former vehicle rolling.
Your implication that rising fuel prices are enough to make anyone grumpy is, indeed, valid. However, in our competitive world, each of us likes to think that we are better off than the driver at the other gas pump.
When fuel prices are driven higher by increased demand and lower supply (refer to your economics 101 text book), it only makes sense to do what you can to decrease demand. Orr national economy is affected by the fuel price situation, but not everyone is hurting. The oil companies are enjoying double digit increases in profits. As long as their pal George W. is working on their side, they will enjoy these hard times.
Gas prices have more than doubled since I bought my car in '04.
If trends continue we could be paying $5-6 in a few short years.
One of our good friends made the mistake last summer of buying a new Expedition and now regrets it to death.
They paid over twice what I did for my HCH and now the pump is killing them.
I can't imagine how it will be in a few years.
This is definitely a RECALL.
The articles I read said that the NTSB dropped it's investigation when Toyota said they would recall the vehicle. In my book, that is a recall - instituted by Toyata rather than NTSB, but still a recall. All one can say (to Toyota's credit) is that they were not forced to recall the Prius.
2005 Honda Accord LX = $0.42/mile
2005 Toyota Prius II = $0.46/mile
Including fuel costs at today’s prices
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Oh, they are going to get greased for sure! :surprise:
You might deny it but most Prius owners do Average ~ 48-51 mpg on an annual basis on a depending on lots of factors.
Where they live ( mountains? seaside? Fla or Minn? )
Do they drive lots of miles 25K plus or just under 10K?
Is their driving in LA or commuting into/from NYC or on the Beltway around DC or is it in one of a thousand small suburbs - shuttling family from one place to another in 2 mile trips?
Do they try to maximize the benefits or drive as they have in the past?
This is reality: If one drives only to the store/office/school and back in one or two short trips of 10 min or less that driver might very well get ONLY 35 mpg per trip and over a year as well. As opposed say to a 4c Camry which will avg 25 mpg for the same trips.
If one uses the Prius/Civic to it's fullest advantage and drives 15 miles each way on the Interstate to work and back and uses the family van the rest of the time. That driver likely will get 45 mpg on average. As opposed to the same 4c Camry getting 33 mpg.
If like me, you drive 50000 miles each year to and from work... I will average 51 mpg ( 47 mpg in winter and 53 in the warmer months ). I presently drive a 4c Camry most of the time but use a Prius whenever I can - and it doesnt matter whether its a Gen1 or Gen2 Prius. My Camry gets 30-35 mpg every day mile after mile depending on the weather.
If you want to pollute that is certainly your option for the time being but it certainly sheds some light on your..????
This much is certain though, if you own one of the following:
F150/Silverado/Tundra/Titan/Ram
Escalade/Expedition/Sequoia
Crown Vic/300M
You will pay anywhere from $1000 to $2000 more every year than a Prius owner will for the right to drive. But that is your choice and I will defend your right to do so. It's why there are so many vehicle choices in the US.
PS: Please dont drive in my town
kdhspyder
It's not the normal case now but if you buy one you might sell it immediately on Ebay at a profit.. Depreciation? How about appreciation?
:shades:
kdhspyder
Sept '05 Sales YTD
1 F150 695K units
2 Silverado 570K
3 Camry 336K
4 Ram 318K
5 Accord 292K
6 Corolla 265K
7 Civic 234K
8 Altima 205K
As the Camry pulls away from the Accord.. does the Accord see the Corolla nipping on its heels. The Corolla is closer to the Accord than it is to the Civic through 9 months.
kdhspyder
I cannot deny the Prius II’s almost negative depreciation over the last year and a half but over 5 years, it will break down. Edmunds TCO numbers are Edmunds numbers including fuel and deprecation costs if you choose to dismiss them or not? All I wanted to point out is if you want a cleaner emitting, larger, far better handling, safer, far more comfortable, much more performance, and far less expensive when comparably equipped automobile, you shouldn’t factor out the Accord is all.
In a Prius II, I think it should be worth an ~ 65 lmpg year round here near Chicago on a mostly Interstate drive. In the Accord, ~ 45 lmpg year round. The numbers were close but not close enough given the price I picked up the PZEV based EX-L w/ NAVI for earlier this spring. Then again, if any of us had known we would be paying $3.00/per, we could have purchased the Prius II at sticker and sold it for darn near sticker after 20,000 miles and be all the more happier
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Less pain is nothing new but those of us that look into the details see even the 05 HCH being the lesser overall cost of the three mentioned with the Corolla and regular Civic costing even less per Edmunds! The Accord is the least expensive midsized automobile on the list when you look at Edmunds TCO’s and this alone is a reason to consider an Accord vs. the Prius II. It is the total cost that we end up paying after 75,000 miles, not how much less we pay at the pump at each and every fill up where the real pain is felt. If the Accord doesn’t work for you because it is not pleasing to the eye, so be it but to dismiss it with its overall lower costs, higher performance, higher safety ratings, more comfort, larger size, more amenities, and less overall expense is a mistake.
05 HCH = $0.40/mile
The TCO's of all my automobiles are far less then Edmunds just as an average Prius II driver should see the same but it is the comparison at $0.46/mile vs. $0.42/mile that many seem to dismiss even with gasoline at $3.00 per.
Nobody receives a 65 lmpg in a Prius II either (there is one but if you look at his combined, it isn’t even close ) but I believe that is where it would end up given the 47.9 lmpg of the 05 Accord right now. The average driver is probably receiving in the mid to high 40’s in the Prius II and mid to high 20’s in the Accord I4. Edmunds Fuel cost numbers are based of an ~ EPA combined (45/55%) giving the Prius II an lmpg over 5 years and 75,000 miles of ~ 56 mpg IIRC. The Accord is based off ~ 28 mpg doing the same. Which of the two fuel cost TCO’s are closer to real world according to Edmunds?
As for resale, that is an interesting question mark 5 + years down the road. $3.00 per 5 years ago will not make the average driver bat an eye but if PO is really at our door step, who knows? The Prius II might actually hold onto a far greater % of its original MSRP then the Accord or anything else but it is a gamble none the less. I can only hope the negative depreciation will continue but when someone tries to sell me a 2004 Prius II w/ 75,000 miles on the ticker for $23K in the year 2010, I think I will pass.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Railroadjames(whenever I see a Prius I say "that's what I like to see")
NHTSA:
04 Toyota Prius II:
Frontal D/P: 5*/4* Side F/R: 4*/4* Rollover: 4*
04 Honda Accord:
Frontal D/P: 5*/5* Side F/R: 4*/5* Rollover: 4*
Not quite the same
EPA:
Prius II vs. Accord’s Passenger/Luggage Volume
96/16 cu. ft. vs. 103/14 cu. ft.
Not quite the same
EPA:
Prius II vs. Accord’s emissions
Tier II/Bin3 vs. Tier II/Bin2
Not quite the same
Toyota Echo’s - non-independent rear suspension and McPherson struts on the Prius II compared to the Accord’s double wishbone front and rear make the Prius II handle a bit more awkward under all circumstances by comparison
Not quite the same
The Accord in all trims include side and side curtains std. but the EX-L w/ NAVI’s std. XM and higher quality sound, more usable NAVI, heated - power everything leather seats, tilt/telescopic steering, windows powered down via Key/embedded FOB, and powered sunroof is what sold it vs. package D of the Prius II for ~ $3,600 less.
Not quite the same
The Prius II should be a less stolen car but the current gen Accord has its own version of theft protection via Immobilizer key.
Just make sure you look at the cost in $/mile of owning a Prius II vs. everything else from multiple angles is all. It will without question trounce the Accord and just about anything out there in the FE department but at a relatively steep price with the loss of other std. features, amenities, and size many may deem necessary in today’s semi-lux/lux automobile purchase.
Finally, the newsies continually harp on the gas savings vs. a less expensive, comparable automobiles instead of looking at the entire package as Edmunds does with the TCO’s. I wonder why?
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
I also want to add the following in favor of the Prius II The huge FE savings of a Prius II over and above almost everything else should mean a lot more then just $’s saved at the pump or $’s out of your pocket on the day of purchase. Think along the lines of the US’ oil dependency/Balance of Trade/GHG emissions. These 3 non-personal financial/non-financial items should be a consideration in any automobile purchase and in this case, the Prius II is the exact right choice for most.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
Toyota is to offer the largest range of used hybrid petrol/electric vehicles available in New Zealand.
They will be marketed as Signature Hybrid within the well-established Signature Class brand which sells guaranteed used vehicles.
Ford Motor Co. plans to speed up hybrid vehicle production
The No. 2 U.S. auto maker intends to offer hybrid systems on half its models, Ford Chairman William Clay Ford Jr.
If demand warrants, he said, Ford will build up to 250,000 gas-electric hybrids a year by 2010 _ a tenfold increase from its current production.
Then, when you mention SUV's, the calculators quickly get turned off, and the industry begins arguing in terms of theories like "the maximum use imperative" as though how much crap you can fit in your vehicle is the only thing that defines "use".
It's as though the industry itself is trying to decide for us the terms under which we ourselves would argue for our purchase decision.
If you want to know the truth, buying a Prius was an extraordinarily emotional decision for me and my wife. It was a big "screw you" directed toward some people whom we believe to be fundamentally and fatally wrong.
And while it makes me cringe horribly to suggest it, we Prius owners are probably more similar to Hummer drivers than anyone on the road, and secretly I even respect them more than the average driver when I consider, "now there's a guy who knows how to communicate his values and take a stand!"
Isn't it interesting that the "BIG THREE" have swung advertising to emphasize their great "MPGS"?
Back to the comprison clash....I can't even imagine anyone feeling a rush of excitment when pumping 37 gallons of gas into any of the "Monsters" Smart people just can't stand being anything but frugle. Paying over $100.00 for a 4-5 day fillup would just give me ulcers. By the way, I laugh a bit at Harly riders that manage less than 30 mpgs on a motorcycle. Where's the advantage in that? Different strokes I suppose.
Railroadjames(why not hybrids?)
Thankfully, however, I'm the one who's right.