Agreed. I was just arguing semantics. I was hypothesizing that retiring a car and replacing it with a new Prius could cause more pollution than just driving the car. Given the choice between a Prius and another car, I agree that the Prius is a more smog friendly choice.
Given that you are going to buy a new car, you are much better off buying a Prius.
I'd actually advocate taking 20 year old chevy vans off the road. That would have a much larger impact on smog than changing from the average commuter car to a Prius.
Agreed. One more point though. IF I owned a Civic and decided to trade it for a Prius it may just prevent one gas guzzler from being sold. How? Well the guy/gal shopping for a used car sees my pristine Civic and buys it instead of say a Ford Explorer. Best advice to anyone... Keep what you have until the wheels start coming off.
If I had a choice between a standard non hybrid Civic and a Prius, I'd put out LESS polution with the Prius. What about the Civic GX? Less pollution than the Prius.
quote moparbad-"What about the Civic GX? Less pollution than the Prius."-end quote
200 mile range, so few refueling stations, added cost (for convenience) of having a CNG dispenser in your garage (assuming you own and can get gas to your location, which I personally DO but CANT).
Civic GX is a fine car, and pollutes less than any combustion engine vehicle in the USA, but it has serious drawbacks.
Larsb said it all. Improve the range, make it a hatch, add some goodies, add some filling stations then we'll talk. In the meantime, the Prius OR the HCH'06 are the only hybrids I'd consider. As for an SUV... The Liberty CRD is definitely the one I'd get once clean diesel arrives here.
if someone can replace an explorer with a civic, then they made a bad decision in the first place. a lot of posters are concerned with percentages of this is better than that. emissions have been pretty low for years. my old '91 mustang 5.0 isn't as bad as most think it would be. basically, the 'pie'(emissions) has gotten pretty small, so big percentage numbers are not all that significant. you can go to green vehicles and make some random selections.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
This is the most factually wrong post i have seen on hybrids in a while. The ABC7Chicago web site is incorrect about the amount of tax credits, the real world mileage that actual 400h drivers get, and reads like an article from "My Weekly Reader".
...Honda could put a major kibosh on the rush to this type of vehicle if their new Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition (HCCI) technology does work.
Essentially, what HCCI does is raise the compression ratio of the combustion chamber so high that gasoline literally ignites without spark plug assistance during the compression stroke at low revs; at higher revs, the spark plug will be there to ignite the air-fuel mixture. Engineers around the world have been trying to pull this off for years but it appears that Honda may have gotten there first.
HCCI could mean 30-35% better fuel economy without the attendant complexity and expense of hybrid drivetrains, and also avoids the issue of particulates that plague diesel engines. :shades:
This is what this forum is all about: Hybrid news!
Every media source I read consistently expresses disappointment about real world mpg of Toyota SUVs!(except Edmund long term test and certain posts of certain forum members who claim wonderful mileage)
If a Hybrid gets into the HOV lane (only The Government can define 2 as "high", and not have anyone question it.) and get to the destination quickly, then they will burn even less gas than a non-hybrid car stuck in plebian traffic! Heaven Forfend!
Put the Hummers in the HOV lanes and stick the Hybrids in stop-and-go traffic where FEMA wants them.
Anyone notice we're trying to recreate the fall of the Roman Republic or restart the French Revolution/Reign of Terror with our stupidity?
At least after the dust settles, I'll be able to use my Prius on electric (from my home power solar cells) to get to my bunker.
You've got it partially correct, raychuang00. The HCCI will BOOST HYBRIDS as well as gasoline-only vehicles.
In 2004, when discussing the potential of its HCCI work, Honda CEO Takeo Fukui estimated that an HCCI Accord could get 50 mpg (double that of conventional Accords) and that a HCCI hybrid Accord could boost mileage to 70 mpg.
Can you imagine a 70 MPG Accord Hybrid !! :shades: Lordy Lordy !!
"Honda Making Significant Progress on HCCI Engine for Hybrid Application"
The Wall Street Journal reported this week that Honda may introduce an HCCI-type engine in a hybrid application that could result in a new Civic hybrid achieving as much as 65 mpg—30% better than the new 2006 version.
According to the engineers who spoke to the WSJ on the condition of anonymity, the company is ready to reveal its R&D results and show a prototype four-cylinder HCCI engine as early as next year.
HCCI—Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition—relies upon a very lean (high proportion of air to fuel) and well-mixed (Homogeneous) air-fuel mixture (Charge) that is compressed (Compression) until it autoignites (Ignition). (The HCCI approach is also called Controlled Auto-Ignition: CAI.)
The resulting spontaneous burn produces a flameless energy release in a large zone almost simultaneously—very different than the spark/gasoline burn or the compression/diesel burn. (Earlier post.)
HCCI combustion can deliver a very efficient engine, potentially providing a 20% to 30% boost in gasoline engine efficiency without the nasty NOx or PM emissions of a diesel. Theoretically it can operate using a variety of fuels: gasoline, diesel, natural gas, biofuels, or hydrogen. Used in a hybrid application, the more efficient engine would increase the overall fuel efficiency of the powertrain."
Scroll down about two pages for the story on this page:
I've read other firms are in the development stages of such technology--VW and BMW!
I'm not surprised. Both the Volkswagen/Audi Group (VAG) and BMW could easily use their extensive experience with diesel engines to create something similar to HCCI, which could improve fuel economy 30% or higher without the complexity and expense of hybrid drivetrains or the emission issues that plague turbodiesel engines. Can you imagine a BMW 330i with 27 mpg city, 38 mpg highway? :surprise: That type of fuel economy is more associated with C-segment economy cars.
Have a look at greenhybrid. There are some screenshots that show otherwise. As a matter of fact, I've read lots of articles showing people getting mid 20's. Gotta love it!!!!
9 weeks for Zelda..... I guess the gays are smarter than the average person. They've embraced hybrids!!!! I am proud to part of that group.
Seriously, this article on balance is approximately correct. My problem with this type of 'reporting' is that it is not reporting at all. It's a rehash of let's call it research-of-other-articles. Nowhere does this alleged reporter ever state that he or she has sat in a hybrid or driven it one foot at any time
What this article is not is real reporting of actual facts. It's a press article which summarizes a CR test without any critical verification. No critical thinking is done here.
The big problem lies at the end. A well written essay/article uses the last line to drive home the point of the whole piece. The conclusion makes the point. When the 'reporter' uses grossly incorrect statements here the whole article loses credibility because in the end it show's no knowledge of the actual facts. It's sloppy writing.
This is a Lifestyle piece. The sum effect of it is that it's nothing more than talking to your neighbor over the back fence. "Hey'd ya hear about the CR test on the hybrids? Y'know they don't have to be plugged in when they're parked?"
Dewey, my brother, this doesnt qualify for one of your articles.. :P The count is still 2:1 in your favor ( 199 more to go ).
Assuming it's reliable. I've read of lots of electrical gremlins with the new Corolla Bimmer
And what galaxy or black hole have you been inhabiting?
Have you checked the updated Consumers Report results on BMW 3 series reliablity? Or the JD Power stats on 3 series reliability?
Yup, years and years of stats proves that the 3 series are reliable cars .In addition seven years of owning my 3 series has proven to be quite reliable.
Electrical gremilins in the 7 series are obvious. In the 3 series, that is a bit of a stretch.
Off topic, let us get back to the fascintating news of hybrids.
Perhaps there are some isolated issues. My friend's associate purchased one and now he has it up for sale. It's been in the dealership for the last 30 days. I have no idea why he'd by something that looks like a Corolla. Go figure!!!
Hybrids are not discounted so it's no surprise that they are not on the best value list.. Neither is a Maybach nor an LS 430. Gotta look at the reasons for the list.
Lots of Daimler Chrysler cars on the BAD column (not surprising). Mainly Asians on the PLUS side. Some Nissans didn't fare to well. Hybrids including Fords continue to show above average reliability.
On the other hand...LOL.. go to Intellichoice.com website and look at the 2005 Best Overall Value Awards. Choose the source that best fits your agrument.
Comments
Given that you are going to buy a new car, you are much better off buying a Prius.
I'd actually advocate taking 20 year old chevy vans off the road. That would have a much larger impact on smog than changing from the average commuter car to a Prius.
What about the Civic GX? Less pollution than the Prius.
200 mile range, so few refueling stations, added cost (for convenience) of having a CNG dispenser in your garage (assuming you own and can get gas to your location, which I personally DO but CANT).
Civic GX is a fine car, and pollutes less than any combustion engine vehicle in the USA, but it has serious drawbacks.
A lot of gays are overcrowding the HOV lanes in Denver in their rush to trade their disappointing Rx400H's in on Hummers? or something like that?
Please stick to talking about the vehicles.
Essentially, what HCCI does is raise the compression ratio of the combustion chamber so high that gasoline literally ignites without spark plug assistance during the compression stroke at low revs; at higher revs, the spark plug will be there to ignite the air-fuel mixture. Engineers around the world have been trying to pull this off for years but it appears that Honda may have gotten there first.
HCCI could mean 30-35% better fuel economy without the attendant complexity and expense of hybrid drivetrains, and also avoids the issue of particulates that plague diesel engines. :shades:
This is what this forum is all about: Hybrid news!
Every media source I read consistently expresses disappointment about real world mpg of Toyota SUVs!(except Edmund long term test and certain posts of certain forum members who claim wonderful mileage)
Put the Hummers in the HOV lanes and stick the Hybrids in stop-and-go traffic where FEMA wants them.
Anyone notice we're trying to recreate the fall of the Roman Republic or restart the French Revolution/Reign of Terror with our stupidity?
At least after the dust settles, I'll be able to use my Prius on electric (from my home power solar cells) to get to my bunker.
In 2004, when discussing the potential of its HCCI work, Honda CEO Takeo Fukui estimated that an HCCI Accord could get 50 mpg (double that of conventional Accords) and that a HCCI hybrid Accord could boost mileage to 70 mpg.
Can you imagine a 70 MPG Accord Hybrid !! :shades:
"Honda Making Significant Progress on HCCI Engine for Hybrid Application"
The Wall Street Journal reported this week that Honda may introduce an HCCI-type engine in a hybrid application that could result in a new Civic hybrid achieving as much as 65 mpg—30% better than the new 2006 version.
According to the engineers who spoke to the WSJ on the condition of anonymity, the company is ready to reveal its R&D results and show a prototype four-cylinder HCCI engine as early as next year.
HCCI—Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition—relies upon a very lean (high proportion of air to fuel) and well-mixed (Homogeneous) air-fuel mixture (Charge) that is compressed (Compression) until it autoignites (Ignition). (The HCCI approach is also called Controlled Auto-Ignition: CAI.)
The resulting spontaneous burn produces a flameless energy release in a large zone almost simultaneously—very different than the spark/gasoline burn or the compression/diesel burn. (Earlier post.)
HCCI combustion can deliver a very efficient engine, potentially providing a 20% to 30% boost in gasoline engine efficiency without the nasty NOx or PM emissions of a diesel. Theoretically it can operate using a variety of fuels: gasoline, diesel, natural gas, biofuels, or hydrogen. Used in a hybrid application, the more efficient engine would increase the overall fuel efficiency of the powertrain."
Scroll down about two pages for the story on this page:
http://www.greencarcongress.com/hybrids/index.html
I dont care what car company develops it first, I just hope it arrives sooner than later.
I'm not surprised. Both the Volkswagen/Audi Group (VAG) and BMW could easily use their extensive experience with diesel engines to create something similar to HCCI, which could improve fuel economy 30% or higher without the complexity and expense of hybrid drivetrains or the emission issues that plague turbodiesel engines. Can you imagine a BMW 330i with 27 mpg city, 38 mpg highway? :surprise: That type of fuel economy is more associated with C-segment economy cars.
9 weeks for Zelda..... I guess the gays are smarter than the average person. They've embraced hybrids!!!! I am proud to part of that group.
It would make the main justification for diesels redundant!(unless biomass/biodiesel becomes a main-stream fuel)
What this article is not is real reporting of actual facts. It's a press article which summarizes a CR test without any critical verification. No critical thinking is done here.
The big problem lies at the end. A well written essay/article uses the last line to drive home the point of the whole piece. The conclusion makes the point. When the 'reporter' uses grossly incorrect statements here the whole article loses credibility because in the end it show's no knowledge of the actual facts. It's sloppy writing.
This is a Lifestyle piece. The sum effect of it is that it's nothing more than talking to your neighbor over the back fence. "Hey'd ya hear about the CR test on the hybrids? Y'know they don't have to be plugged in when they're parked?"
Dewey, my brother, this doesnt qualify for one of your articles.. :P The count is still 2:1 in your favor ( 199 more to go ).
And what galaxy or black hole have you been inhabiting?
Have you checked the updated Consumers Report results on BMW 3 series reliablity?
Or the JD Power stats on 3 series reliability?
Yup, years and years of stats proves that the 3 series are reliable cars .In addition seven years of owning my 3 series has proven to be quite reliable.
Electrical gremilins in the 7 series are obvious. In the 3 series, that is a bit of a stretch.
Off topic, let us get back to the fascintating news of hybrids.
That still gives me a lead! In fact my results are double your results!
As time goes by I will find the other 199 articles which will cause the score to be:
199:1 in my favor! :P
There are isolated issues with a Lexus? With a Prius? With every type of car on earth!
I have no idea why he'd by something that looks like a Corolla.
I think it has something to do with the drivetrain and chassis? You know the saying: Ugly face (styling), pretty soul (how it drives)
There is mention of battery life and it's very interesting what they say. Good read!
Nice looking and nice performance!!!
2006 Best Buys
They will for the 2008 model year cars. The Hybrid Camry will be on there. Remember where you heard it first.
Lots of Daimler Chrysler cars on the BAD column (not surprising). Mainly Asians on the PLUS side. Some Nissans didn't fare to well. Hybrids including Fords continue to show above average reliability.
GO HYBRID!!!
YEAH BABY!!!
There are deals available on the HAH.