Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

breld

kyfdx said:

Yeah.. I see it now, thanks.

I put in a VIN for one that is for sale at a local VW dealer and it comes back as ineligible. So, guessing anything a VW dealer has reported in inventory is a no go on getting a settlement.

Put in one from a CJD dealer and it's eligible.

Hmmm, that would make sense, but for kicks, I put in some VINs on local units for sale at VW dealerships and they come back as eligible. Maybe some are "registered" as owned by a VW dealership and some not?

breld

kyfdx said:

Yeah.. I see it now, thanks.

I put in a VIN for one that is for sale at a local VW dealer and it comes back as ineligible. So, guessing anything a VW dealer has reported in inventory is a no go on getting a settlement.

Put in one from a CJD dealer and it's eligible.

Hmmm, that would make sense, but for kicks, I put in some VINs on local units for sale at VW dealerships and they come back as eligible. Maybe some are "registered" as owned by a VW dealership and some not?

stickguy said:

Michaell said:

@breld – So which car am I going to see you driving at lunch on Tuesday?

And, I've noticed that all of the temporary tags are being printed rather than handwritten here in Colorado. Do all dealers have a special printer for this?

I'm sure by now they just issued Breld his own printer.

Man, that would make things so much more efficient!

nyccarguy

What am I missing here?


VIN: 3VWPL7AJ4EM605498
2014 Jetta Sportwagen
Pano Roof, DSG, Navigation
26K miles
Asking 18,673 @ a Toyota Dealership in the city

Looks like the value is $30,317
Restitution Amount $7,542

Looks like VW would buy this sucker back at $22,775?

Michaell

You guys are killing me here. Wish I were in the market now. Wish I wasn't upside down on the E-GT.

Sigh.

Driving a TDI for free is very enticing.

We can't be the only group of folks who notice this. Once an article is posted on an automotive website, won't selling prices go up?

breld

nyccarguy said:

What am I missing here?


VIN: 3VWPL7AJ4EM605498
2014 Jetta Sportwagen
Pano Roof, DSG, Navigation
26K miles
Asking 18,673 @ a Toyota Dealership in the city

Looks like the value is $30,317
Restitution Amount $7,542

Looks like VW would buy this sucker back at $22,775?

Seems like a very similar deal to mine, but one model year newer.

If anyone else pulls the trigger on one of these, I am making a disclaimer that I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV. I'm just a lowly CPA who does happen to read a lot of legal contracts and was intrigued by this news.

Of course, I am indeed practicing what I'm preaching!

breld

nyccarguy said:

What am I missing here?


VIN: 3VWPL7AJ4EM605498
2014 Jetta Sportwagen
Pano Roof, DSG, Navigation
26K miles
Asking 18,673 @ a Toyota Dealership in the city

Looks like the value is $30,317
Restitution Amount $7,542

Looks like VW would buy this sucker back at $22,775?

Plus at least half of that restitution of course (depending on when it was traded in).

corvette

breld said:

I am making a disclaimer that I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV.

I'm also making a disclaimer that I am a lawyer, and am frequently sought to play one on TV, but my client list doesn't include anyone reading this message!

We'll see whether there are any interesting TDIs available after I get back from my trip. The Netspend prepaid cards recently changed their interest rates for the worse, so I have some capital to redeploy. I could do a lot worse than driving a free car for the next two years.

breld

Hmmm - something tells me this one may not be eligible.

Jetta TDI

28firefighter

breld said:

Hmmm - something tells me this one may not be eligible.

Jetta TDI

Ouch.

28firefighter

The used car market here in Seattle is killing me. There simply aren't very many for sale and the ones that are are grossly overpriced.

If I had the time, it'd almost make sense to buy one and drive it or ship it back.

28firefighter

By the way...

I came across this today: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1102025_how-can-vw-audi-dealers-still-sell-used-tdi-diesel-vehicles

Apparently VW dealers can still sell used TDIs as long as they are not being sold as certified pre-owned.

kyfdx

breld said:

kyfdx said:

Yeah.. I see it now, thanks.

I put in a VIN for one that is for sale at a local VW dealer and it comes back as ineligible. So, guessing anything a VW dealer has reported in inventory is a no go on getting a settlement.

Put in one from a CJD dealer and it's eligible.

Hmmm, that would make sense, but for kicks, I put in some VINs on local units for sale at VW dealerships and they come back as eligible. Maybe some are "registered" as owned by a VW dealership and some not?

The one at my local VW dealer appears to have been acquired in April, according to the CARFAX.

I didn't read the whole settlement, but it bothers me that they have that June 28th date in there. If it doesn't exclude transactions after that date, then why put it in there?

breld

I think that June 28th date pertains to the Eligible Seller concept. So if you choose to sell your TDI after that date, you're not eligible for that 50% of the restitution. And accordingly, if you buy one between September 18th and June 28th, you're subject to sharing that restitution.

In the definition of Eligible Owner, it specifically states:

For avoidance of doubt, an Eligible Owner ceases to be an Eligible Owner if he transfers ownership of the Eligible Vehicle to a third party on or after June 28, 2016; and a third party who acquires ownership of an Eligible Vehicle on or after June 28, 2016, thereby becomes an Eligible Owner if that third party otherwise meets the definition of an Eligible Owner.

And Eligible Vehicle is defined:

Model Year 2009 through 2015 Volkswagen and Audi light-duty vehicles equipped with 2.0-liter TDI engines that are (1) covered, or purported to be covered, by the EPA Test Groups in the table immediately below this paragraph; (2) registered with a state Department of Motor Vehicles or equivalent agency or held by bill of sale by a non-Volkswagen Dealer in the United States or its territories as of June 28, 2016

And that's why I wouldn't take a chance buying one from a VW dealer.

breld

28firefighter said:

By the way...

I came across this today: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1102025_how-can-vw-audi-dealers-still-sell-used-tdi-diesel-vehicles

Apparently VW dealers can still sell used TDIs as long as they are not being sold as certified pre-owned.

I don't know - I think that's an older article. The FTC order states:

IT IS ORDERED that Defendant is permanently restrained and enjoined from advertising, marketing, offering for sale, selling, offering for lease, leasing, or distributing, or assisting others in the advertising, marketing, offering for sale, selling, offering for lease, leasing, or distributing in the United States or its territories any vehicle that contains a Defeat Device.

My guess is if a VW dealership goes ahead and sells you the car, you're obviously then the registered owner and are eligible for a buyback, but it may not be under the same favorable terms of the settlement agreement. And, the VW dealership will get in some trouble from VW.

breld

Don't get me wrong - even though I've read through all the documents several times and thought it all through, I won't feel 100% confident until my claim is accepted and I get a buyback quote.

I made my decision to go forward with it based on the idea that worst case is the car still has to be bought back at Retail Replacement Value (per the DOJ order). If I miss out on the restitution but more or less drive the car for free, I'm okay with that.

sda

breld said:

Don't get me wrong - even though I've read through all the documents several times and thought it all through, I won't feel 100% confident until my claim is accepted and I get a buyback quote.

I made my decision to go forward with it based on the idea that worst case is the car still has to be bought back at Retail Replacement Value (per the DOJ order). If I miss out on the restitution but more or less drive the car for free, I'm okay with that.

In the meantime you have a really nice car that will be economical and a joy to drive!

ab348

No offense to anyone involved in the great VW Buyback Game, but wouldn't it make more sense for that to have its own topic here?

Mr_Shiftright

Anyone here is free to start a new topic if they wish. Go for it. Just be sure to put in a link here if you do.

stevedebi

Anybody buying one of the used VWs - if it is over 40K, make sure the DSG service has been done. Or plan on doing it yourself. I believe the car has to be driveable to get the buyback.

Ours is coming up on 40K. We have most of the VW visa card they gave us this year, so I think we are going to have the service done. We are selling ours back to VW. Should be about 1700 back after the sale. Due to my (un)employment situation, we are going down to 2 cars. My wife is going to drive the 2014 C-Max Energi, and I'm going to putter around in our 2002 Civic, which is technically my daughters, but she is in the dorm again this year at UNM, and doesn't really need a car.

My wife isn't fond of the C-max due to the electric steering and especially the sensitive brakes, but she can plug it in for free at her work, saving us another 60 bucks in electricity per month. Between that and only 2 cars on the insurance, it is a significant chunk of change every month.

Plus, we are upset with VW being so stupid as to make a dumb software cheat like that, and for lying to us about "clean". It wasn't the main reason we purchased, but is was a factor.

I should mention, it means I'm going to have to buy out the lease next year; her commute is 40 miles a day and there is no way we can pay the excess miles. But that is OK, I was considering it anyway.

corvette

Would you come out ahead by keeping the VW until the end of 2018 or whatever the deadline is on the buyback? May depend on what the monthly nut is on the VW. 

nyccarguy

I saw a Golf R on the way home this afternoon. I love that Blue color.

breld

ab348 said:

No offense to anyone involved in the great VW Buyback Game, but wouldn't it make more sense for that to have its own topic here?

Understood. What do you all think - should I go ahead and start a thread?

breld

nyccarguy said:

I saw a Golf R on the way home this afternoon. I love that Blue color.

I agree - I'm a sucker for blue anyway, much less one that is exclusive to a model.

nyccarguy

breld said:

nyccarguy said:

I saw a Golf R on the way home this afternoon. I love that Blue color.

I agree - I'm a sucker for blue anyway, much less one that is exclusive to a model.

It is expensive for a GTI, but not that much more if you are looking at a Loaded Autobahn. Of course you'll get MUCH more off of the sticker price of a GTI Autobahn than a Golf R. The 4 door GTI S seems like a good value.

breld

New VW TDI thread:

VW TDI Settlement

breld

nyccarguy said:

breld said:

nyccarguy said:

I saw a Golf R on the way home this afternoon. I love that Blue color.

I agree - I'm a sucker for blue anyway, much less one that is exclusive to a model.

It is expensive for a GTI, but not that much more if you are looking at a Loaded Autobahn. Of course you'll get MUCH more off of the sticker price of a GTI Autobahn than a Golf R. The 4 door GTI S seems like a good value.

Yes - agreed. If not for the significant discounts on the GTI, I would almost think it's foolish to load up a GTI and not consider the R. But it does seem those R's are commanding full sticker or close to it - if you can find one available. I also pay attention to the used market for them, and they are holding strong there too.

I'm certainly curious to see the pricing on this new Sport model for 2017 - a couple of welcome upgrades over the "S" model, plus the Performance Pack...and plaid seats!

And...I'm very anxious to hear about the new Civic Si.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

houdini1 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I don't think VW would want that kind of PR---shipping dirty cars to poor countries.

You may be right from a "politically correct" standpoint, but I wouldn't describe these relatively clean diesels as "dirty cars". After all, the U.S. is allowing many of them to be driven here. Do you really think that these diesels would pollute more than the thousands of 50 and 60 year old cars that they drive now?

If handled correctly I think VW could get some good PR by doing this.

I'm not seein' that, but hey, nobody can say for sure. My speculation is that Cuba would be highly insulted. They have a pretty pristine environment, all things considered and are proud of it.

As for how much more the offending VW diesels are "polluting", here's one test from the International Council on Clean Transportation:

"The ICCT conducted in-use tests, using portable emissions modeling systems, on three vehicles: a VW Jetta, a VW Passat, and a BMW X5. In the tests, conducted over five pre-defined routes categorized based on their predominant driving conditions (highway, urban/suburban, and rural-up/downhill driving), real-world nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions from the Jetta exceeded the US-EPA Tier2-Bin5 (at full useful life) standard by 15 to 35 times. For the Passat, real-world NOx emissions were 5 to 20 times the standard. The BMW vehicle was generally at or below the standard, and only exceeded it during rural uphill operating conditions."

You do realize that even 35 times a penny is still only 0.35 dollars? How come these disingenuous misleading studies don't mention what the "standard" emissions were just 5, 10, and 15 years ago?

andres3

nyccarguy said:

breld said:

nyccarguy said:

I saw a Golf R on the way home this afternoon. I love that Blue color.

I agree - I'm a sucker for blue anyway, much less one that is exclusive to a model.

It is expensive for a GTI, but not that much more if you are looking at a Loaded Autobahn. Of course you'll get MUCH more off of the sticker price of a GTI Autobahn than a Golf R. The 4 door GTI S seems like a good value.

Don't forget that with the upgraded motor you are not only getting a lot more HP and torque, you are getting a stronger, more durable engine with forged parts and internals (in addition to the bigger turbo). It would be interesting if someone could really get a full DETAILED complete sheet on the differences between the GTI and R; I bet the list is longer than you think. One you wouldn't expect maybe, I believe the R gets a better superior leather. Can someone check on the inter-cooler, exhaust, and suspension calibrations as well?

andres3

nyccarguy said:

I saw a Golf R on the way home this afternoon. I love that Blue color.

I wouldn't have minded a blue Golf R with DSG, DCC adjustable suspension, and no (repeat) zero additional driver-assistance add-on options (there is only one option package for driver's assistance and it is $1,100).

Of course, my top offer would have been 94% of MSRP, the Audi Club member deal on new Audi's (6% off MSRP for those that are math-challenged :P)

houdini1

andres3 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

houdini1 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I don't think VW would want that kind of PR---shipping dirty cars to poor countries.

You may be right from a "politically correct" standpoint, but I wouldn't describe these relatively clean diesels as "dirty cars". After all, the U.S. is allowing many of them to be driven here. Do you really think that these diesels would pollute more than the thousands of 50 and 60 year old cars that they drive now?

If handled correctly I think VW could get some good PR by doing this.

I'm not seein' that, but hey, nobody can say for sure. My speculation is that Cuba would be highly insulted. They have a pretty pristine environment, all things considered and are proud of it.

As for how much more the offending VW diesels are "polluting", here's one test from the International Council on Clean Transportation:

"The ICCT conducted in-use tests, using portable emissions modeling systems, on three vehicles: a VW Jetta, a VW Passat, and a BMW X5. In the tests, conducted over five pre-defined routes categorized based on their predominant driving conditions (highway, urban/suburban, and rural-up/downhill driving), real-world nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions from the Jetta exceeded the US-EPA Tier2-Bin5 (at full useful life) standard by 15 to 35 times. For the Passat, real-world NOx emissions were 5 to 20 times the standard. The BMW vehicle was generally at or below the standard, and only exceeded it during rural uphill operating conditions."

You do realize that even 35 times a penny is still only 0.35 dollars? How come these disingenuous misleading studies don't mention what the "standard" emissions were just 5, 10, and 15 years ago?

LOL. That is one of those little inconvenient truths that no one wants to talk about. Yes, even 40 times almost nothing is still almost nothing.

ab348

andres3 said:

You do realize that even 35 times a penny is still only 0.35 dollars? How come these disingenuous misleading studies don't mention what the "standard" emissions were just 5, 10, and 15 years ago?

Not to mention things like the vintage British double-decker sightseeing bus I was in traffic with today that laid down a smokescreen every time it accelerated from a stop. Putrid.

Mr_Shiftright

breld said:

New VW TDI thread:

VW TDI Settlement

OK men, let's go over there and help this topic get off the ground!

stickguy

had a quick 3rd base coach shopping experience today. My niece texted with some questions on trucar. looks like she ended up trading in her Rogue (which she never liked) on a new 2016 Subaru Legacy. Silver premium with moonroof. Nice looking car (she sent me a picture). Picks it up tomorrow.

andres3

Other than the GTR and the Nismo 370Z Nissan does nothing for me. Have they tried using the failure-prone CVT's in those cars yet? I've heard/read stories the GTR would kill its transmission with the launch control feature; guess the engineers figured robust parts weren't necessary.

Michaell

Uh oh. Meeting @breld for lunch. Did the Jetta go away already?

stickguy

That is a seriously weird looking car.

nyccarguy

Dropped off the Pilot for its pre road trip oil change. Computer says oil has 20% left, so some new Mobil 1 5w/20 Synthetic plus a genuine Honda oil filter should help keep my mind at ease on the way from Connecticut to Disney World by way of Charlotte, NC & back. Mechanic said the drive belt looks dry and worn. He recommends replacement, so I said do it. I don't need any problems on the trip there or on my way home.

The Pilot's passenger & cargo capacity will be put to the test. My Mother In Law is traveling with us for a total of 6 people plus luggage for a 2 week vacation. I enlisted the help of a cargo carrier that attaches to the tow hitch. We depart Saturday when I get home from work.

au1994

nyccarguy said:

Dropped off the Pilot for its pre road trip oil change. Computer says oil has 20% left, so some new Mobil 1 5w/20 Synthetic plus a genuine Honda oil filter should help keep my mind at ease on the way from Connecticut to Disney World by way of Charlotte, NC & back. Mechanic said the drive belt looks dry and worn. He recommends replacement, so I said do it. I don't need any problems on the trip there or on my way home. The Pilot's passenger & cargo capacity will be put to the test. My Mother In Law is traveling with us for a total of 6 people plus luggage for a 2 week vacation. I enlisted the help of a cargo carrier that attaches to the tow hitch. We depart Saturday when I get home from work.

Good call on the belt. That will leave you on the side of the road quicker that dirty oil. Be safe and have fun at the mouse house!

stickguy

Definitely on the belt. One of those breaking almost took out Dennis weaver.

And man, that is going to be crowded.

Wave when you pass exit 4 on the turnpike. And again on I40 by Burlington NC (that one is for my daughter)

sda

stickguy said:

Definitely on the belt. One of those breaking almost took out Dennis weaver.

And man, that is going to be crowded.

Wave when you pass exit 4 on the turnpike. And again on I40 by Burlington NC (that one is for my daughter)

And south of Charlotte at the Fort Mill exit, give a wave. I am about 15 min to the east. Enjoy!

At exit 79, Rock Hill, look to your left. The Honda dealer where I get most of my work done and where we have purchased several cars is at that corner.

nyccarguy

Thank-you for the well wishes guys!

nyccarguy

So for all you Volvo lovers that have an Acura RDX with a ton of equity and a daughter in college who would like to "cash out" of the aforementioned RDX and get into a new Volvo S60 Inscription T5-E Drive (ahem, @stickguy) for 2 years, this might be right up your alley:

$2,650 Non Cash Credit Equivalent (Complimentary Premier Package)
$500 Volvo Allowance
$6,300 Lease Bonus

Valid through 8/1/2016

You are welcome. Thanks for not posting any used G37xs in a while:)

stickguy

That did sound vaguely familiar. My wife might miss her car though.

Needed that last year, when I could have given the princess the Hyundai!

breld

Michaell said:

Uh oh. Meeting @breld for lunch. Did the Jetta go away already?

Hmmm - maybe if this VW buyback works like I'm hoping....and I buy 10 more of them.

Sandman6472

I see there is a new topic about the situation now!

corvette

Here you go:

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/41955/volkswagen/x/vw-tdi-settlement-buying-a-tdi-now#latest

stever

and there's this one:

FAQ: Volkswagen Diesel Emissions Settlement | Edmunds.com

breld

Enjoying my VW wagon has me thinking of replacing it down the road with the new Alltrack. The 1.8t, as many of us know, gets great mileage, and could be interesting paired with the DSG (or 6-speed manual of course).

I was really drawn to it at the Denver Auto Show earlier this year. Hmmm, maybe VW will entice the TDI buyback owners with some additional incentives to keep them in the fold?

corvette

breld said:

Hmmm, maybe VW will entice the TDI buyback owners with some additional incentives to keep them in the fold?

Speaking as a long-time follower (and occasional fan) of VW, VW of America is way too incompetent to offer such an incentive.

breld

You're probably right.

The FTC order actually goes out of its way to state that the settlement does not preclude VW from offering additional incentives to current owners of the affected models. Kinda like they're encouraging VW to do so.