Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

breld

By the way - I like the wagon enough that I'm getting the windows tinted this afternoon, even though I know its days are limited (though let's face it - no more limited than most cars I buy).

I know some here (looking at you @stickguy) don't like the tinted window look, but I love the contrast on a white car.

breld

breld said:

Enjoying my VW wagon has me thinking of replacing it down the road with the new Alltrack. The 1.8t, as many of us know, gets great mileage, and could be interesting paired with the DSG (or 6-speed manual of course).

I was really drawn to it at the Denver Auto Show earlier this year. Hmmm, maybe VW will entice the TDI buyback owners with some additional incentives to keep them in the fold?

Saw some order sheets (presumably authentic) for the 2017 VW models posted on another site.

So, a fully loaded "SEL" Alltrack with the driver's assistance package (which includes the lighting upgrade) tops out at about $35,700. Chunk of change for sure, but that's what I figured - $2-3k over a fully loaded Sportwagen.

Or how about this - a still nicely equipped "SE" model with a 6-speed manual for right around $30k? Pretty cool offering. Any other AWD manual wagons available any more? Impreza hatch maybe, if you consider that a wagon?

By the way - the 2017 GTI Sport model is just under $30k. That includes the PP and LP, plus some other minor differentiating details like unique wheels.

breld

Found that order sheet - $27,995 for the GTI Sport w/manual, $29,095 for DSG (plus $820 destination).

That's about the same price as a 2016 S w/PP and LP (actually $90 cheaper). More importantly, I imagine it will be easier to find one of these Sport models than it is now to find a loaded up S model.

au1994

breld said:

Found that order sheet - $27,995 for the GTI Sport w/manual, $29,095 for DSG (plus $820 destination). That's about the same price as a 2016 S w/PP and LP (actually $90 cheaper). More importantly, I imagine it will be easier to find one of these Sport models than it is now to find a loaded up S model.

That is a lot of car for the money. In a perfect world I'd have that for my DD and an older drop top for my fun weekend driver.

suydam

Not to rain on the VW fans, but I've been shopping two entirely different vehicles: the Mazda3 hatch and the Chevy Volt.
Test drove the Volt today. It's a wonderful car. I'm a little more drawn to the smaller Mazda but it's not like the Volt is THAT much bigger.

I was offered the following figures for a lease on the Volt (this is in Southern California):
was just offered the following lease for a 2017 Volt Premier in Santa Barbara, Calif. I've never leased a car so I don't know if this is good or not.
Price: 39883 - $6504 reduction for the federal rebate and the cap cash reduction = 33,379
APR 1.94 for 39 mo./10k per year
Residual: 48%
0 down
Monthly payment: $431

I've never leased a car so I don't know if those are good figures or not. The monthly payment seems high to me.

On the other hand, I got a selling price on the Mazda i touring with tech package of $22,200 which seems pretty fair.

So 2 wildly different vehicles (only thing they have in common is being small and sort of hatchback). The Volt has every bell and whistle you can imagine except a sunroof. I love how quiet it is. I'm intrigued but also uncertain about the pros and cons of living with a plug in.

The Mazda is more familiar ground. Doesn't have leather but it has a sunroof. Has most of the safety features too except the Volt has front and rear parking sensors. It's smaller and more maneuverable but not by a whole lot smaller back seat for sure. I do live in a condo complex where parking and space are at a premium.
No idea at the moment which direction I want to go.
I welcome comments.

kyfdx

That doesn't seem like that great of a deal on a Volt. Seems like with the tax credit rebate, the CAP cost should be a lot lower.

suydam

Federal tax credit in Calif. is now $6500 on a lease and the $1500 Calif. credit has been suspended and may not return, according to this dealer. How much lower do you think it should be?

Sandman6472

Like the Mazda3 but not enough to have bought one a year or so back. But have driven a few at work and they are good on the road. Funny, but am liking the Buick Encore more and more lately and had the chance to sit in one the other day. Interior felt spacious and very similar to my VW Golf. Think if I ever did go back to a domestic, the Encore would be the one I'd buy. Haven't leased because am averaging about 13K/year with 90% of that expressway and have always owned. Once I retire again, might be the right time to look at a lease as mileage will be cut by 2/3. But with leasing, one must be more than careful so won't get dinged when turning it back in.
If you like the Mazda better, which I sense you do, I'd say go for it! If I were in your shoes, that would be what I'd do.

The Sandman

breld

breld said:

By the way - I like the wagon enough that I'm getting the windows tinted this afternoon, even though I know its days are limited (though let's face it - no more limited than most cars I buy). I know some here (looking at you @stickguy) don't like the tinted window look, but I love the contrast on a white car.

Aaah - much better.

stickguy

it does look good on the white car. I just don't like it from the inside, looking out!

ab348

suydam said:

So 2 wildly different vehicles (only thing they have in common is being small and sort of hatchback). The Volt has every bell and whistle you can imagine except a sunroof. I love how quiet it is. I'm intrigued but also uncertain about the pros and cons of living with a plug in.

The Mazda is more familiar ground. Doesn't have leather but it has a sunroof. Has most of the safety features too except the Volt has front and rear parking sensors. It's smaller and more maneuverable but not by a whole lot smaller back seat for sure. I do live in a condo complex where parking and space are at a premium.
No idea at the moment which direction I want to go.
I welcome comments.

I would guess that the Mazda would be noisier than most anything else in the class - certainly that is the reputation at least, that its NVH is among its weakest points, offset by its sporty feel. Make sure you could live with that. The Volt strikes me as a very different car, more premium for sure than most other compacts, but probably not particularly sporty though I may be wrong on that score. Hard to make a direct comparison.

suydam

I was surprised how quiet the Mazda is. Nice interior too. Really stepped up its game. Of course compared to the mostly electric and upscale Volt, no contest. I do like the Mazda's smaller dimensions. And then there's the issue of leasing vs. owning. Surprisingly insurance is pretty much the same for both.

Michaell

suydam said:

I was surprised how quiet the Mazda is. Nice interior too. Really stepped up its game. Of course compared to the mostly electric and upscale Volt, no contest. I do like the Mazda's smaller dimensions. And then there's the issue of leasing vs. owning. Surprisingly insurance is pretty much the same for both.

I've always been intrigued with the Volt, given that a lot of my driving is (or, should I say, was) in town.

If most of your driving is around town, I should think the Volt would be perfect. The Mazda would be better for the twisty roads in the mountains outside of town.

nyccarguy

Michaell said:

suydam said:

I was surprised how quiet the Mazda is. Nice interior too. Really stepped up its game. Of course compared to the mostly electric and upscale Volt, no contest. I do like the Mazda's smaller dimensions. And then there's the issue of leasing vs. owning. Surprisingly insurance is pretty much the same for both.

I've always been intrigued with the Volt, given that a lot of my driving is (or, should I say, was) in town.

If most of your driving is around town, I should think the Volt would be perfect. The Mazda would be better for the twisty roads in the mountains outside of town.

The Mazda would also be better if it was turbocharged

breld

blog.caranddriver.com/mazda-confirms-cx-9s-2-5l-turbo-four-fits-in-other-models/

Michaell

breld said:

blog.caranddriver.com/mazda-confirms-cx-9s-2-5l-turbo-four-fits-in-other-models/

But they also confirmed no new Speed3.

I'd be ok with a 6 Touring with this engine and a stick. Probably out of my budget for the time being, however.

stickguy

A 6 touring turbo stick? Would also be on my short list.

suydam

My stick shift days are done. I really enjoyed driving the smaller 3.

nyccarguy

suydam said:

My stick shift days are done. I really enjoyed driving the smaller 3.

Me too. I'm glad I still have my Prelude for when I want to have some fun & row my own. My daily drivers & even if I ever go for some "fun" high HP Sports car it will be with some form of an Automatic or DSG.

stickguy

I'm willing to go back to a stick. But that also assumes I haven't gone back to a commute that involves sitting in traffic a lot! And of course, what options are available. Wanting a stick will certainly slash the options.

henryn

stickguy said:

I'm willing to go back to a stick. But that also assumes I haven't gone back to a commute that involves sitting in traffic a lot! And of course, what options are available. Wanting a stick will certainly slash the options.

I am in a commute that involves sitting in traffic. I live and work "inside the loop". Distances are short, driving is terrible. No clutch. Period. Ain't gonna happen.

I have said before, if and when I retire again and move back to the country, I could see myself owning something with a clutch. But not before.

breld

I think I'm ready to go to a nice auto for my main car now, and have a more occasional "fun" car with a stick - much like @nyccarguy. I think I'd have a hard time not having one at all for the occasional urge to shift for myself, but driving around the X5 and more recently this Jetta has me appreciating a good auto-shifting vehicle.

breld

Michaell said:

breld said:

blog.caranddriver.com/mazda-confirms-cx-9s-2-5l-turbo-four-fits-in-other-models/

But they also confirmed no new Speed3.

I'd be ok with a 6 Touring with this engine and a stick. Probably out of my budget for the time being, however.

They did? What a shame - the Mazda3 is such a great car on its own, why not have something to properly compete with the other hot hatches?

And when I first read your post regarding the "Touring" model, I was thinking you saw something about Mazda introducing the 6 wagon in the U.S.! That...would be great.

breld

breld said:

I think I'm ready to go to a nice auto for my main car now, and have a more occasional "fun" car with a stick - much like @nyccarguy. I think I'd have a hard time not having one at all for the occasional urge to shift for myself, but driving around the X5 and more recently this Jetta has me appreciating a good auto-shifting vehicle.

Of course, this also comes right after an unusually long commute that lasted more than an hour in rush hour.

stickguy

My record when I was working out west of philly, for the 45 mile commute back to jersey (through philly) was 2.5 hours, in my stick accord. I think my left calf was sore for a week after that drive. Thank goodness it was a Friday evening so I had a few days off to rest!

nyccarguy

breld said:

Found that order sheet - $27,995 for the GTI Sport w/manual, $29,095 for DSG (plus $820 destination).

That's about the same price as a 2016 S w/PP and LP (actually $90 cheaper). More importantly, I imagine it will be easier to find one of these Sport models than it is now to find a loaded up S model.

The big question is: what do the wheels on the GTI Sport look like? When these 2017 GTI Sports hit the dealer lots, what kind of a crazy discount will you get on a "leftover" 2016?

Mr_Shiftright

breld said:

breld said:

I think I'm ready to go to a nice auto for my main car now, and have a more occasional "fun" car with a stick - much like @nyccarguy. I think I'd have a hard time not having one at all for the occasional urge to shift for myself, but driving around the X5 and more recently this Jetta has me appreciating a good auto-shifting vehicle.

Of course, this also comes right after an unusually long commute that lasted more than an hour in rush hour.

It depends on the stick shift. Some are brilliant, some a real chore.

stevedebi

suydam said:

Not to rain on the VW fans, but I've been shopping two entirely different vehicles: the Mazda3 hatch and the Chevy Volt.
Test drove the Volt today. It's a wonderful car. I'm a little more drawn to the smaller Mazda but it's not like the Volt is THAT much bigger.

I was offered the following figures for a lease on the Volt (this is in Southern California):
was just offered the following lease for a 2017 Volt Premier in Santa Barbara, Calif. I've never leased a car so I don't know if this is good or not.
Price: 39883 - $6504 reduction for the federal rebate and the cap cash reduction = 33,379
APR 1.94 for 39 mo./10k per year
Residual: 48%
0 down
Monthly payment: $431

I've never leased a car so I don't know if those are good figures or not. The monthly payment seems high to me.

On the other hand, I got a selling price on the Mazda i touring with tech package of $22,200 which seems pretty fair.

So 2 wildly different vehicles (only thing they have in common is being small and sort of hatchback). The Volt has every bell and whistle you can imagine except a sunroof. I love how quiet it is. I'm intrigued but also uncertain about the pros and cons of living with a plug in.

The Mazda is more familiar ground. Doesn't have leather but it has a sunroof. Has most of the safety features too except the Volt has front and rear parking sensors. It's smaller and more maneuverable but not by a whole lot smaller back seat for sure. I do live in a condo complex where parking and space are at a premium.
No idea at the moment which direction I want to go.
I welcome comments.

Doesn't sound that good to me. I believe that the C-Max Energi can be had for mid 20's, which means under 300 on a lease. Somewhat different car than a Volt, of course. I've read of folks getting a lease for under 250. Ford is really giving a lot up on these cars.

breld

nyccarguy said:

breld said:

Found that order sheet - $27,995 for the GTI Sport w/manual, $29,095 for DSG (plus $820 destination).

That's about the same price as a 2016 S w/PP and LP (actually $90 cheaper). More importantly, I imagine it will be easier to find one of these Sport models than it is now to find a loaded up S model.

The big question is: what do the wheels on the GTI Sport look like? When these 2017 GTI Sports hit the dealer lots, what kind of a crazy discount will you get on a "leftover" 2016?

I've read they are the "Nogaro" wheels that are on the GTD in other markets:

Nogaro Wheel

Based on the pictures, I don't know if it's any better or worse, but at least it's a little different.

breld

Mr_Shiftright said:

breld said:

breld said:

I think I'm ready to go to a nice auto for my main car now, and have a more occasional "fun" car with a stick - much like @nyccarguy. I think I'd have a hard time not having one at all for the occasional urge to shift for myself, but driving around the X5 and more recently this Jetta has me appreciating a good auto-shifting vehicle.

Of course, this also comes right after an unusually long commute that lasted more than an hour in rush hour.

It depends on the stick shift. Some are brilliant, some a real chore.

That is absolutely true. I'd say the S4 is the best I've had in that regard.

qbrozen

Just randomly poking around and discovered the Fusion Sport is showing up at dealers and the configurator is available online. I priced one out at just shy of $39k.

rayainsw

http://www.2gfusions.net/showthread.php?tid=4703

First report of a 2017 Sport I have seen 'in the wild'...

stickguy

Probably a fun ride.

qbrozen

That is the first I've heard of the 400hp MKZ. Went and configured one of those just now. Looks to be about $6k more than the Fusion, the way I'd equip it.

nyccarguy

I did that the other day. Lot of car for the money.

qbrozen

I'd like to see the actual tested numbers of the MKZ and Fusion Sport to see how they stack up. I'd imagine the Fusion is lighter, but is it light enough to make up for the 75hp deficit?

qbrozen

If I pull off this VW swap, I don't know what I will do next. The Fusion Sport could be on the shopping list. I'd probably want to go quite a bit cheaper, though. Maybe I'll go back to used cars under $20k and flip more often.

nyccarguy

What VW Swap?

stickguy

Q has joined the church of Breld, and drank the Kool-aid. He is now also trolling the used TDI market.

killing me, that he found one I really like, when I am not in the market.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Q has joined the church of Breld, and drank the Kool-aid. He is now also trolling the used TDI market. killing me, that he found one I really like, when I am not in the market.

+1 @stickguy

kyfdx

This guy needs opinions. Anyone here have one?

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/42002/general/x/lease-ending-looking-for-next-vehicle/p1?new=1

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

If I pull off this VW swap, I don't know what I will do next. The Fusion Sport could be on the shopping list. I'd probably want to go quite a bit cheaper, though. Maybe I'll go back to used cars under $20k and flip more often.

Find me something nice with a stick, please

Sandman6472

Hopefully Ford has found a fix for the stalling issues in the 2016 Fusions. Our fleet has had multiple issues of this now where it happened to me twice, another driver a few times, and another two just once. Ford took our vehicles in and fixed them, some kind of reflash I think but they were very hush hush about the issue. Our maintenance department has also had to do a safety on many of them also.
It's very scary folks to lose all power and stall out on the turnpike where it happened to me and another driver two different times. Just beware folks because Ford is aware of this safety issue!! Until they address and fix all these Fusions, plus the two Lincoln models this is happening to, I'd stay away!!

The Sandman

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Q has joined the church of Breld, and drank the Kool-aid. He is now also trolling the used TDI market.

killing me, that he found one I really like, when I am not in the market.

You sure you can't pull off that brown one? It is pretty inexpensive, all things considered.

stickguy

If my lease didn't go until 11/2017 I would grab it early. Given that it took me 20 months to hit 11k miles, it would be a lawn ornament. Plus next winter, I get the other Jetta back for 5 month when the princess does a term abroad.

It is a good deal though, even without the buyback and rebates.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

If my lease didn't go until 11/2017 I would grab it early. Given that it took me 20 months to hit 11k miles, it would be a lawn ornament. Plus next winter, I get the other Jetta back for 5 month when the princess does a term abroad.

It is a good deal though, even without the buyback and rebates.

Buy it for me.. I'll send you a check and pick it up some weekend.

stickguy

Sounds good. Unless you are a Nigerian prince in real life.

stickguy

Next fall, there better be some kind of deal of a lifetime situation I can latch onto also. I think I deserve it!

kyfdx

stickguy said:

Next fall, there better be some kind of deal of a lifetime situation I can latch onto also. I think I deserve it!

Get the karma thing working by helping me out...

Not Nigerian or a prince, last time I checked.

stevedebi

nyccarguy said:

What VW Swap?

Some folks are planning to buy VW TDI and swap them out when VW buys them back this fall. I imagine that is what is meant.