Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

sda

VW has made nice improvements to the Jetta since its 2011 introduction and they are currently very nice cars. Any word when the next generation will come out?

stickguy

With the new imprezza coming out now, I wonder when the updated WRX will appear? Could be interesting in fall 2017!

Michaell

sda said:

VW has made nice improvements to the Jetta since its 2011 introduction and they are currently very nice cars. Any word when the next generation will come out?

The Jetta is still using the old platform, and needs to be updated to the MQB platform that is used for the current Golf.

Not sure if the plan is for VW to continue to offer an "Americanized" version, but I suspect a refresh will be coming soon. 2018 model year, perhaps?

corvette

qbrozen said:

It would only be about $200 to refurb the curb rash. I think it would be worth it but I guess it's a regional thing?

Must be regional because you can't get anything done for $200 around here. Dismount all the tires, grind and polish the 4 lips, remount and balance the tires ... I'd say $600 on the low side. And that's, of course, assuming all are still repairable in that manner.

I think sometimes they can repair the rims without dismounting. If they have to dismount the runflats, it will be expensive. 

Mr_Shiftright

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Somebody remind me please....who among us once owned a Mazda RX-8?

That be me!

As I recall you had some issues with that car?

nyccarguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Somebody remind me please....who among us once owned a Mazda RX-8?

That be me!

As I recall you had some issues with that car?

I think they bought it back from him because it made less hp than originally stated. He bought a Mustang GT after that.

qbrozen

I think he kept it and took the incentives instead. IIRC, the Mustang was not him, it was a GG imposter.

Mr_Shiftright

I remember something about it flooding out and not starting.

Sandman6472

Looking like a storm is on the way! Weather Channel just ain't sure where it's gonna go quite yet but, pretty sure we're gonna get something. Hopefully it'll start a more northerly turn very soon but the available models have us somewhere in the "cone of uncertainty". After living here almost 50 years, one learns the lingo.
Anyways, am so ready to move from here it ain't funny!!

The Tired Sandman

breld

stickguy said:

I was just building 2017 WRXs. Have a new distraction. Need to go test fit one of these!

From my experience test driving, the WRX is a roomy car for its size. They still catch my eye - I wish I would've given that a try over the Mazda3, though I'd probably still be in the same place.

stickguy

My wife might hate it. But she will get over it.

andres3

Michaell said:

Another VW story ...

Though, this one isn't mine.

Five months ago, my oldest nephew bought a GTI through Carmax. Can't remember the details, but I want to say it's a 2011 and it had about 50K on the clock.

The car was in the shop twice in the first five weeks of ownership - both times to replace failed coil packs.

Last week, the car dies in an intersection. The check engine light came as did the power steering light. Carmax couldn't see the car until early September, so they took it to the VW store next door. They came back with a list of problems that needs to be addressed, to the tune of $6000!

Now, I'm sure some of this is the VW store padding the estimate with anything and everything that could be fixed. Still, my sister and her son are both upset with this nasty turn of events. She called me Saturday to fill me in on all this and ask my opinion as to what to do going forward.

No, there isn't an extended warranty on the GTI.
My nephew put close to $4K down, so it's likely he's not buried in the loan.

I suggested she go back to Carmax and have a polite conversation with them about their options. Ideally, she'd like to ditch the GTI for something more, ahem, "reliable". Told her that's certainly an option, and to discuss the possibility of some goodwill from the Carfax folks for another sale, by giving them a good trade value on the GTI.

I've also suggested she not mention the litany of issues found by the VW dealer - at this time. All Carmax knows is that there is a problem that needs to be looked at.

But, I figured it can't hurt to solicit an opinion from the folks here, as well.

I told her about my new Jetta lease and what I'm paying - I believe it's a similar payment to what they're paying on the GTI. Not sure she wants to go new, and at the moment, she's feels burned by VW.

OK, fine. Lots of cheap leases out there. Kid is in junior college at the moment, and will be going to a 4 year school next fall. Not sure if that's close to home or not - which could complicate the miles on a lease.

Thoughts? Opinions?

(c'mon - I know you've got 'em)

My first thought is why blame VW? They bought a 5 year old car with 50 K on the clock from Carmax with very little known history. I'd blame Car Max for not vetting/inspecting/fixing the car before selling it. My general impression is that there really isn't much to Car Max's claim of a XXX number point inspection process for every car they have. I think it's more like a 14 point inspection; definitely not triple digits. They probably should have taken advantage of Carmax's extended warranties.... of course, those have deductibles.

My suggestion, picket in front of Car Max's lot with a big sign that reads "Car Max sold me a Lemon" until they cave in and pay for the repairs and/or give an acceptable trade value to them. A former colleague at work told me he did this a long time ago while unemployed (think it took a week of picketing every day).

stever

andres3 said:

< My general impression is that there really isn't much to Car Max's claim of a XXX number point inspection process for every car they have.

That's my feeling about pretty much all those checklists, including the CPO ones. Tires match? That five ticks on the checklist, four if you have runflats (and even so, you'll find people buying a CPO only to learn later that one of the tires is completely different from the others).

Brake pads still thick enough? Another 4 ticks. Oh, there's 8 pads, 8 ticks.

Michaell

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

Another VW story ...

Though, this one isn't mine.

Five months ago, my oldest nephew bought a GTI through Carmax. Can't remember the details, but I want to say it's a 2011 and it had about 50K on the clock.

The car was in the shop twice in the first five weeks of ownership - both times to replace failed coil packs.

Last week, the car dies in an intersection. The check engine light came as did the power steering light. Carmax couldn't see the car until early September, so they took it to the VW store next door. They came back with a list of problems that needs to be addressed, to the tune of $6000!

Now, I'm sure some of this is the VW store padding the estimate with anything and everything that could be fixed. Still, my sister and her son are both upset with this nasty turn of events. She called me Saturday to fill me in on all this and ask my opinion as to what to do going forward.

No, there isn't an extended warranty on the GTI.
My nephew put close to $4K down, so it's likely he's not buried in the loan.

I suggested she go back to Carmax and have a polite conversation with them about their options. Ideally, she'd like to ditch the GTI for something more, ahem, "reliable". Told her that's certainly an option, and to discuss the possibility of some goodwill from the Carfax folks for another sale, by giving them a good trade value on the GTI.

I've also suggested she not mention the litany of issues found by the VW dealer - at this time. All Carmax knows is that there is a problem that needs to be looked at.

But, I figured it can't hurt to solicit an opinion from the folks here, as well.

I told her about my new Jetta lease and what I'm paying - I believe it's a similar payment to what they're paying on the GTI. Not sure she wants to go new, and at the moment, she's feels burned by VW.

OK, fine. Lots of cheap leases out there. Kid is in junior college at the moment, and will be going to a 4 year school next fall. Not sure if that's close to home or not - which could complicate the miles on a lease.

Thoughts? Opinions?

(c'mon - I know you've got 'em)

My first thought is why blame VW? They bought a 5 year old car with 50 K on the clock from Carmax with very little known history. I'd blame Car Max for not vetting/inspecting/fixing the car before selling it. My general impression is that there really isn't much to Car Max's claim of a XXX number point inspection process for every car they have. I think it's more like a 14 point inspection; definitely not triple digits. They probably should have taken advantage of Carmax's extended warranties.... of course, those have deductibles.

My suggestion, picket in front of Car Max's lot with a big sign that reads "Car Max sold me a Lemon" until they cave in and pay for the repairs and/or give an acceptable trade value to them. A former colleague at work told me he did this a long time ago while unemployed (think it took a week of picketing every day).

We did pull a Carfax, which showed that the DSG fluid was changed. No other service history issues that jumped out (and, @Mr_Shiftright pulled the report, so I trust the source).

No word from sis, yet.

On another note, I got a call from the VW dealer this morning. Turns out there is a problem with my paperwork.

No, my payment isn't going up.

Legally, I am Patrick Michael. For reasons too long to talk about here, I've always used my middle name. When signing the paperwork on Saturday, I used "Michael" on almost all the forms, but used "P. Michael" on the credit app. Need to go down and resign them.

And, I never signed the power of attorney that allows the VW dealer to pay off the Hyundai.

nyccarguy

He's quite helpful that @Mr_Shiftright.

andres3

Michaell said:

henryn said:

Volkswagens tend to skew towards the BMW / Mercedes side, you don't really want to own one that is out of warranty. Unless you can do your own work, or at the very least know a good independent shop who will treat you fairly. Paying the dealer rates to get service work on a German car is ... the word "madness" comes to mind.

I've suggested to my sis that they try to find a reputable VW indie shop.

I'm in San Diego and I know of two fantastic VW/Audi shops I could fully 100% recommend. One is in the Mira Mesa area, the other in Santee. Labor rates right around $105/hour these days I think, which is cheap in CA for a competent VW/Audi wrench.

Hearing all these stories of early life problems with VW tells me two things.... don't trust a used VW if you don't know the maintenance history, and two, not sure I trust VW and the Mexico/US assembly plants quality and/or quality control (or lack thereof) for long term ownership. I think I'd trust it enough to try it (Wife's '15 has been perfect), but I'm wary and worried. Whereas with my Audi's I expect stellar Toyota-Lexus like reliability, and seem to be getting it every time (knock on wood - TTS at close to 7,500 miles).

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Somebody remind me please....who among us once owned a Mazda RX-8?

That be me!

As I recall you had some issues with that car?

Yeah...it was a quirky car. Fun, but quirky. Mine was one of the first ones ('04 MY) out of the factory, and may have been the first one in OHIO.

Started off, Mazda overstated HP, and offered to buy it back, or give me (IIRC) something like $750. I took the money.

It burned a lot of oil, particularly given it was a new car. I literally kept a case of oil in the trunk and added about 1qt every couple of fillups (about 400-500 miles).

If you didn't rev it while parked about 30 seconds to a minute before shutting it down, to burn off fuel in the rotary chambers, it had a tendency to flood. Once it flooded, you couldn't restart it by just flooring the accelerator and cranking until it cleared and then started. It had to be towed to the dealer. They, in turn would pull the plugs and physically cleared the combustion chamber. This was all covered under warranty, but was a complete PITA.

I knew of at least two people personally, who had to have their engines totally replaced in their '04 before they had 2K miles on them.

The A/C was super week, even in moderate weather. The battery was weak, having been replaced twice in the year I owned it, under warranty.

MPG wasn't so good. I never cracked 15 MPG, even driving the speed limit with cruise control on. Mostly it was around 12-13 MPG. But, I also hit red line at least a few times every time I drove it.

Nor sure in subsequent MYs if they corrected some of the faults. I know the first ones out had a lot of issues, which was the reason they offered to buy them back (not just because of the HP misstatement).

Never could prove the following, but there were pretty strong rumors that Mazda had set them up to hit pre-release specs at the (Hiroshima?) factory. But, once they hit the CA docks in the U.S., they couldn't pass emissions tests. That caused them to rework them at the port of entry to pass emissions. In turn, that affected HP, driveability, etc.

But, when it ran, it was an absolute blast. It was light on its feet, would take corners at crazy speeds. Bad roads didn't upset the suspension (although it was pretty firm). The steering was the best I experiened in any car, before or since, as was the shifter (6-speed manual). To get any torque out of the rotary, you had to rev it....HARD...9K RPM. The rotary ate those RPM up like they were nothing. It sounded like an Indy car at elevated RPM.

Went the opposite end of the spectrum when I finally gave up on it. I got an '05 Mustang GT, which was TOTALLY new at the time. I had ZERO problems with it.

Michaell

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

henryn said:

Volkswagens tend to skew towards the BMW / Mercedes side, you don't really want to own one that is out of warranty. Unless you can do your own work, or at the very least know a good independent shop who will treat you fairly. Paying the dealer rates to get service work on a German car is ... the word "madness" comes to mind.

I've suggested to my sis that they try to find a reputable VW indie shop.

I'm in San Diego and I know of two fantastic VW/Audi shops I could fully 100% recommend. One is in the Mira Mesa area, the other in Santee. Labor rates right around $105/hour these days I think, which is cheap in CA for a competent VW/Audi wrench.

Hearing all these stories of early life problems with VW tells me two things.... don't trust a used VW if you don't know the maintenance history, and two, not sure I trust VW and the Mexico/US assembly plants quality and/or quality control (or lack thereof) for long term ownership. I think I'd trust it enough to try it (Wife's '15 has been perfect), but I'm wary and worried. Whereas with my Audi's I expect stellar Toyota-Lexus like reliability, and seem to be getting it every time (knock on wood - TTS at close to 7,500 miles).

Mira Mesa is closer - my sister lives in Rancho Bernardo. If you could share the name, I'll pass it along to her.

andres3

Michaell said:

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

henryn said:

Volkswagens tend to skew towards the BMW / Mercedes side, you don't really want to own one that is out of warranty. Unless you can do your own work, or at the very least know a good independent shop who will treat you fairly. Paying the dealer rates to get service work on a German car is ... the word "madness" comes to mind.

I've suggested to my sis that they try to find a reputable VW indie shop.

I'm in San Diego and I know of two fantastic VW/Audi shops I could fully 100% recommend. One is in the Mira Mesa area, the other in Santee. Labor rates right around $105/hour these days I think, which is cheap in CA for a competent VW/Audi wrench.

Hearing all these stories of early life problems with VW tells me two things.... don't trust a used VW if you don't know the maintenance history, and two, not sure I trust VW and the Mexico/US assembly plants quality and/or quality control (or lack thereof) for long term ownership. I think I'd trust it enough to try it (Wife's '15 has been perfect), but I'm wary and worried. Whereas with my Audi's I expect stellar Toyota-Lexus like reliability, and seem to be getting it every time (knock on wood - TTS at close to 7,500 miles).

Mira Mesa is closer - my sister lives in Rancho Bernardo. If you could share the name, I'll pass it along to her.

Shop is called Pure Motorsport - contact information found with the link below (don't worry, I'm not commissioned in any way to refer people):
http://www.purems.com/contact/

They are smartly located within a mile of the biggest Audi dealership in the City. I'd contact them sooner than later as they are very busy, and pretty much work off appointments only. They are busy because they are not a secret, I'm unfortunately (when I need a quick fix) not the only one that likes them. They have a loaner but that means appointments with even longer lead times.

Even though I don't get any incentives or discounts for referring people, would be nice if she mentioned Andres referred her if she does end up going there.

I'm about to hit up the shop owner Michael for a hook-up on perhaps an APR Stage 1 tune, and maybe brake pads and fluid that won't disintegrate upon track use scheduled for November. Also shopping wheel and tire sets... Frugal vs. You only LIVE once and sitting on the fence so far...

andres3

@Michaell

By the way, the picketing in front of Carmax's lot idea is only recommended by me after all diplomacy "playing nice" fails, if it fails, and if they really have the time to bother. Hopefully Carmax's customer service reacts well to the "play nice" approach.

andres3

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

Michael, has the wife come around on the Jetta yet? Did she get a ride in it?

The three of us took it to breakfast on Sunday morning. She likes it well enough. It helped that I had the girls' favorite XM station programmed on page one of the presets.

We've got a weekend getaway planned at our favorite B&B next month; if the weather is OK, we'll take the Jetta then, too.

Today, I got to see the SQ5 that @breld bought last month. Hadn't realized it was the bright blue color. Very sharp, and a nice exhaust burble when he pulled into the parking lot.

Is it wrong for me, after only 4 days of ownership, to be thinking about the next car already?

I've declared to the wife that the next car will be more luxurious, or sporty, or both, from what I've been driving. Depending on how my VW experience goes, I can see leasing a GTI, a GLI or an A3 2.0T Quattro.

Though, I have to say, I'm a bit miffed at Audi. Heated seats are standard with my lowly Jetta SE, but they're a $500 option on the A3 Premium. And, any color other than red, white or black costs an extra $475. $35K, minimally optioned.

As I've argued before, the more options, the better for those of us that don't want to pay up the nose for gadgets, bells, and whistles, and just want a great car. Nothing wrong with Ala cart options IMO. If things are grouped together into massive options packages, they better be steeply discounted.

I used to be just like you, thinking the Luxury makes were crazy for charging extra for colors. Then I owned one and noticed how nice that German paint looked. I notice the VW's are not quite painted the same. You do get some value for those extras, it just is a matter of whether that value is worth it to you or not. Some people might be happy with just about any finish or paint that doesn't rust, others not so much.

andres3

kyfdx said:

It's easy on a BMW.. just click all the boxes.

Personally, I think a 228 for about $40K is not that bad of a deal. It's the same engine you'll find in a $58K 5-series. A loaded GTI is $35K.

Loaded cars in general are too expensive. I like to compare bare bones stripper models. You can make an A4 cost as much as an S4 with options.

stickguy

Michaell said:

I just priced out a 2-series on the BMW website. Tried to spec it the same as my new Jetta, in terms of features.

I forgot, for 2017 it's the 230xi. $35K base.

I can live with white, just to save the money on any metallic paint color.
Black sensatec interior - OK by me.

Cold weather package (heated seats) - $700
Driver assistance package (rear camera) - $950
Premium package (keyless access, power seats, satellite radio) - $2950

You want Apple CarPlay? Sorry, not available as a stand alone option - gotta take the whole nav system option, at $1950. Pass.

Total? $40,745.

Figure 7% discount, then add on $925 for the acquisition fee. $38,818.

That's a lease payment of close to $600 with tax, using this months lease numbers.

Just checked local inventory - an even dozen 2-series in stock. About a third are convertibles, and there's actually a couple of RWD (!) models on the lot. Nothing equipped the way I would prefer.

Well, to be fair, was comparing stickers now. Discounts will fee all over the place.

My problem is, at over 40k, it still is missing some real basic stuff. If the vinyl is OK, that is $1,500 you can save. As long as you don't want the nice colors! And no BLIS is weak for this price. And I'm not paying that much for no decent connectivity to maps and have to dredge out the old garmin. Really used to that on the big screen and integrated now. So, to get to moderate "luxury car" standards, MSRP Is going to be $43-44.5k.

The CPO 2016 I saw for 35k 4,000 miles, and fully loaded) was not a bad deal after all!

And that lease payment is crazy.

Michaell

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

henryn said:

Volkswagens tend to skew towards the BMW / Mercedes side, you don't really want to own one that is out of warranty. Unless you can do your own work, or at the very least know a good independent shop who will treat you fairly. Paying the dealer rates to get service work on a German car is ... the word "madness" comes to mind.

I've suggested to my sis that they try to find a reputable VW indie shop.

I'm in San Diego and I know of two fantastic VW/Audi shops I could fully 100% recommend. One is in the Mira Mesa area, the other in Santee. Labor rates right around $105/hour these days I think, which is cheap in CA for a competent VW/Audi wrench.

Hearing all these stories of early life problems with VW tells me two things.... don't trust a used VW if you don't know the maintenance history, and two, not sure I trust VW and the Mexico/US assembly plants quality and/or quality control (or lack thereof) for long term ownership. I think I'd trust it enough to try it (Wife's '15 has been perfect), but I'm wary and worried. Whereas with my Audi's I expect stellar Toyota-Lexus like reliability, and seem to be getting it every time (knock on wood - TTS at close to 7,500 miles).

Mira Mesa is closer - my sister lives in Rancho Bernardo. If you could share the name, I'll pass it along to her.

Shop is called Pure Motorsport - contact information found with the link below (don't worry, I'm not commissioned in any way to refer people):
http://www.purems.com/contact/

They are smartly located within a mile of the biggest Audi dealership in the City. I'd contact them sooner than later as they are very busy, and pretty much work off appointments only. They are busy because they are not a secret, I'm unfortunately (when I need a quick fix) not the only one that likes them. They have a loaner but that means appointments with even longer lead times.

Even though I don't get any incentives or discounts for referring people, would be nice if she mentioned Andres referred her if she does end up going there.

I'm about to hit up the shop owner Michael for a hook-up on perhaps an APR Stage 1 tune, and maybe brake pads and fluid that won't disintegrate upon track use scheduled for November. Also shopping wheel and tire sets... Frugal vs. You only LIVE once and sitting on the fence so far...

Thanks for the reference ... I've sent the information along to my sister.

Mr_Shiftright

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Somebody remind me please....who among us once owned a Mazda RX-8?

That be me!

As I recall you had some issues with that car?

Yeah...it was a quirky car. Fun, but quirky. Mine was one of the first ones ('04 MY) out of the factory, and may have been the first one in OHIO.

Started off, Mazda overstated HP, and offered to buy it back, or give me (IIRC) something like $750. I took the money.

It burned a lot of oil, particularly given it was a new car. I literally kept a case of oil in the trunk and added about 1qt every couple of fillups (about 400-500 miles).

If you didn't rev it while parked about 30 seconds to a minute before shutting it down, to burn off fuel in the rotary chambers, it had a tendency to flood. Once it flooded, you couldn't restart it by just flooring the accelerator and cranking until it cleared and then started. It had to be towed to the dealer. They, in turn would pull the plugs and physically cleared the combustion chamber. This was all covered under warranty, but was a complete PITA.

I knew of at least two people personally, who had to have their engines totally replaced in their '04 before they had 2K miles on them.

The A/C was super week, even in moderate weather. The battery was weak, having been replaced twice in the year I owned it, under warranty.

MPG wasn't so good. I never cracked 15 MPG, even driving the speed limit with cruise control on. Mostly it was around 12-13 MPG. But, I also hit red line at least a few times every time I drove it.

Nor sure in subsequent MYs if they corrected some of the faults. I know the first ones out had a lot of issues, which was the reason they offered to buy them back (not just because of the HP misstatement).

Never could prove the following, but there were pretty strong rumors that Mazda had set them up to hit pre-release specs at the (Hiroshima?) factory. But, once they hit the CA docks in the U.S., they couldn't pass emissions tests. That caused them to rework them at the port of entry to pass emissions. In turn, that affected HP, driveability, etc.

But, when it ran, it was an absolute blast. It was light on its feet, would take corners at crazy speeds. Bad roads didn't upset the suspension (although it was pretty firm). The steering was the best I experiened in any car, before or since, as was the shifter (6-speed manual). To get any torque out of the rotary, you had to rev it....HARD...9K RPM. The rotary ate those RPM up like they were nothing. It sounded like an Indy car at elevated RPM.

Went the opposite end of the spectrum when I finally gave up on it. I got an '05 Mustang GT, which was TOTALLY new at the time. I had ZERO problems with it.

Yeah, that's about what I've heard. They are quite attractively priced right now, and I think some of the issues got sorted out. Still, a risky purchase no doubt.

Sandman6472

So far, both vehicles have been fine, my little hiccup was fixed quickly and efficiently. Drove a new '16 Jetta at work yesterday and it drove fine, probably an "S" model. When floored, it moved like at bat outta hell! Think it had the 1.4t engine but no time to look under the hood.
Luckily the garage can fit both vehicles because will need to put the large trash can and recycle bin so in the case of high winds, they don't become missiles and disappear. Patio furniture also goes in and after that, pretty packed in there. Figure both girls will show up Friday night and ride out whatever comes our way.
Too early to know about work, boss did say that this afternoon a meeting will be held and plans put into place. Living down here, we take it all seriously and plan accordingly to minimize the effects we could feel. Sure, most times we overdue and look back and say why? But after living through Davis,Andrew, Wilma and so many others, I definitely respect Mother Nature and take nothing for granted.
This is the real reason I want to move, just can't go through another Wilma like storm as I was pretty traumatized by her sheer power and after effects!

The Getting Prepared Sandman


(P. S. - The upper right corner is the "dirty side" with the most winds and rain which can lead to much devistation. better to be on the lower right quadrant.

Sandman6472

Put Mapquest on my android phone and it talks to me! My other app, Google Maps, stopped talking for some reason and nothing we do is helping. Figured I'd run Mapquest and see what happens and it's great. when picking up a customer, much easier to hear the directions than holding the phone and trying to read it. I have a pretty large android phone, 5.7 screen, but awkward when driving, and somewhat dangerous. Mapquest has solved my problem and am very pleased.
Also, heard a closer office needs a driver so sent my resume just to see about a transfer. Can't hurt and one never knows. "If ya don't ask...ya don't get"!

The Sandman

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Somebody remind me please....who among us once owned a Mazda RX-8?

That be me!

As I recall you had some issues with that car?

Yeah...it was a quirky car. Fun, but quirky. Mine was one of the first ones ('04 MY) out of the factory, and may have been the first one in OHIO.

Started off, Mazda overstated HP, and offered to buy it back, or give me (IIRC) something like $750. I took the money.

It burned a lot of oil, particularly given it was a new car. I literally kept a case of oil in the trunk and added about 1qt every couple of fillups (about 400-500 miles).

If you didn't rev it while parked about 30 seconds to a minute before shutting it down, to burn off fuel in the rotary chambers, it had a tendency to flood. Once it flooded, you couldn't restart it by just flooring the accelerator and cranking until it cleared and then started. It had to be towed to the dealer. They, in turn would pull the plugs and physically cleared the combustion chamber. This was all covered under warranty, but was a complete PITA.

I knew of at least two people personally, who had to have their engines totally replaced in their '04 before they had 2K miles on them.

The A/C was super week, even in moderate weather. The battery was weak, having been replaced twice in the year I owned it, under warranty.

MPG wasn't so good. I never cracked 15 MPG, even driving the speed limit with cruise control on. Mostly it was around 12-13 MPG. But, I also hit red line at least a few times every time I drove it.

Nor sure in subsequent MYs if they corrected some of the faults. I know the first ones out had a lot of issues, which was the reason they offered to buy them back (not just because of the HP misstatement).

Never could prove the following, but there were pretty strong rumors that Mazda had set them up to hit pre-release specs at the (Hiroshima?) factory. But, once they hit the CA docks in the U.S., they couldn't pass emissions tests. That caused them to rework them at the port of entry to pass emissions. In turn, that affected HP, driveability, etc.

But, when it ran, it was an absolute blast. It was light on its feet, would take corners at crazy speeds. Bad roads didn't upset the suspension (although it was pretty firm). The steering was the best I experiened in any car, before or since, as was the shifter (6-speed manual). To get any torque out of the rotary, you had to rev it....HARD...9K RPM. The rotary ate those RPM up like they were nothing. It sounded like an Indy car at elevated RPM.

Went the opposite end of the spectrum when I finally gave up on it. I got an '05 Mustang GT, which was TOTALLY new at the time. I had ZERO problems with it.

Yeah, that's about what I've heard. They are quite attractively priced right now, and I think some of the issues got sorted out. Still, a risky purchase no doubt.

If not a daily driver, they're fun. Later ones, say the Shimkas, probably would have most of the bugs out.

rayainsw

The RX-8 story remids me that I had an RX-2 while in the military.
Rotary Coupe - in 1972.
It did use some oil. And it would actually reach 7,000 RPM in top gear. [ 4th ]
That was 120 MPH.
- Ray
Pretty speedy, for the times...

nyccarguy

MSRP $42,680

http://www.whiteplainschrysler.com/new/Dodge/2016-Dodge-Challenger-White+Plains-b33fe87e0a0e0ae8595b246ccfdb281b.htm

Challenger R/T Plus Shaker

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

I was just building 2017 WRXs. Have a new distraction. Need to go test fit one of these!

The WRX Limited is a nice package. Not sure what color to go with.

roadburner

If I had the money and didn't have the Club Sport I think I'd get a new Challenger TA:

stickguy

nyccarguy said:

MSRP $42,680

http://www.whiteplainschrysler.com/new/Dodge/2016-Dodge-Challenger-White+Plains-b33fe87e0a0e0ae8595b246ccfdb281b.htm

Challenger R/T Plus Shaker

well, it at least has all the required features. But I still can't see myself driving one. Heck, I don't know if I could get the doors open in the garage.

for the WRX, looks like they changed the pricing a little for 2017. not that much of an upcharge over the premium, and looks like almost a wash if you want the fancier radio (standard on the limited I believe). So just have to decide if want leather or cloth (though need leather to get a power seat which I probably want). Color, the dark blue. Too bad only black insides.

only way to get BLIS and cross path stuff is on the limited, but that is a real expensive option ($2,500 I think) considering it isn't even including eyesight.

andres3

I think for '17 VW decided to make the overpriced driver assistance package on the Golf R standard; so the sticker went up $1,300 for someone like me that would have left that box blank. I'd rather put that money towards a set of 255/35/R19 Michelin Sport Cup 2 tires.

Mr_Shiftright

I dunno...Challengers and Chargers are very nice, but almost 2 tons. You could be compromised by a hot hatch.

RE: Mazda RX-8....I think 2012 was the last year?? So they had 8 years to get the kinks out.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

I dunno...Challengers and Chargers are very nice, but almost 2 tons. You could be compromised by a hot hatch.

RE: Mazda RX-8....I think 2012 was the last year?? So they had 8 years to get the kinks out.

Compromising American Muscle on the track is one of favorite things to do! I intend for that to happen this November in Buttonwillow and hopefully in April at Spring Mountain in Pahrump NV.

Both are great tracks where handling finesse will beat high HP if the high HP can't turn.

andres3

Mr_Shiftright said:

I dunno...Challengers and Chargers are very nice, but almost 2 tons. You could be compromised by a hot hatch.

RE: Mazda RX-8....I think 2012 was the last year?? So they had 8 years to get the kinks out.

That being said I do know of a young ex-marine working in my field that went from an A5 coupe to a brand new Camaro SS this year. He said something about adding a blower mod to the new car the other day, something about 500+ HP. I commented that the number he said was a lot of horse power, and he said it's also a lot of car.

roadburner

One nice thing about the 2er is that you don't need blind spot monitoring or cross path detection- it has great outward visibility and is only 175" long.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

nyccarguy said:

MSRP $42,680

http://www.whiteplainschrysler.com/new/Dodge/2016-Dodge-Challenger-White+Plains-b33fe87e0a0e0ae8595b246ccfdb281b.htm

Challenger R/T Plus Shaker

well, it at least has all the required features. But I still can't see myself driving one. Heck, I don't know if I could get the doors open in the garage.

for the WRX, looks like they changed the pricing a little for 2017. not that much of an upcharge over the premium, and looks like almost a wash if you want the fancier radio (standard on the limited I believe). So just have to decide if want leather or cloth (though need leather to get a power seat which I probably want). Color, the dark blue. Too bad only black insides.

only way to get BLIS and cross path stuff is on the limited, but that is a real expensive option ($2,500 I think) considering it isn't even including eyesight.

The World Raylle Blue Pearl that every kid in a modded STi has or the Lapis Ue like I have on my Legacy?

I like the Black a lot! It looks sick!

nyccarguy

I've seen high HP Vipers embarrass 911 GT3s on a race track in the corners. They take the turns just slow enough and just wide enough so their V10's low end torque powers out of the turn. By the time the GT3s catch up, the Vipers pull the same thing around the next turn.

stickguy

roadburner said:

One nice thing about the 2er is that you don't need blind spot monitoring or cross path detection- it has great outward visibility and is only 175" long.

that is a plus. But after having it on my car, I would really rather have it than not.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

The World Rally Blue Pearl that every kid in a modded STi has or the Lapis Ue like I have on my Legacy?

I like the Black a lot! It looks sick!

I liked the red STI that I drove; a LOT of car for the money.

stickguy

Lapis blue. the darker one. That bright blue is just too much. and black over black is too stark. White might work too. would have to see them all in person, and how the color works with the wheels.

nyccarguy

I don't like how the white looks with the dark grey wheels.

stickguy

I was just looking at pictures. I see what you mean. Blue is nice, but silver or gray would work too.

corvette

Moved some cash from savings to checking to pay for my TDI whenever it arrives. Suddenly have the urge to do a bunch of expensive home improvement projects (which I could probably do some of, and still pay for the TDI, but nonetheless, why do I get this urge when there are more than a few nickels in my checking account?)...

breld

Yeah, I do like the World Rallye Blue, but there are a lot of those out there. The Lapis Blue is really sharp and bit more distinctive. When I was considering it, I was thinking of going white. I actually like the contrast between the gray wheels and the white body. The second year of this model (2016, I think?) came with some nicer looking wheels for Premium and Limited models, as well as a nicer touchscreen audio system.

I like that they added BLIS and other safety features in 2016, but @stickguy, you're right, you really have to pay to get them. As you also pointed out, I'd be fine with the cloth seats, but the power adjustments on the Limited are a welcome feature.

There's a dealer nearby in Colorado Springs that advertises pretty heavy discounts on their website.

Hmm, now I want one.

breld

Did anyone see this on C&D?

Optima wagon

Not surprising it won't be offered in the U.S. Too bad. It looks a lot like the TSX wagon, IMO, which is a compliment.

Michaell

breld said:

Yeah, I do like the World Rallye Blue, but there are a lot of those out there. The Lapis Blue is really sharp and bit more distinctive. When I was considering it, I was thinking of going white. I actually like the contrast between the gray wheels and the white body. The second year of this model (2016, I think?) came with some nicer looking wheels for Premium and Limited models, as well as a nicer touchscreen audio system.

I like that they added BLIS and other safety features in 2016, but @stickguy, you're right, you really have to pay to get them. As you also pointed out, I'd be fine with the cloth seats, but the power adjustments on the Limited are a welcome feature.

There's a dealer nearby in Colorado Springs that advertises pretty heavy discounts on their website.

Hmm, now I want one.

Just what you need ... another blue turbocharged AWD 4-door.

breld

Yeah, I can talk big now knowing there's no follow through at this point. My side of the car budget is definitely blown on the SQ5.