Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

roadburner

Horses for courses, as the Brits say. I love the manual gearboxes in my ti and Wrangler. In the case of the ti the car needs a manual box to extract the maximum performance from the motor. You have to pay attention and know what you are doing to make relatively rapid progress. The Jeep needs a third pedal because an automatic in a Wrangler is akin to a two-pedal Miata- a crime against nature.

As for automatics, I've had good luck with them(my 1986 Scorpio excepted); the X3 is pushing 191k on its five speed GM box. I've mentioned how much I like the ZF 8 speed in the 2er; to me a manual box is kind of pointless with an engine that makes 330 ft-lbs of torque from 1300-4500 rpm- but that's just me. That said, if I was getting a 230i or M2 the manual would be my choice.

The i3 avoids the issue altogether- no transmission at all.

houdini1

fintail said:

Weren't those some later V6s? Or maybe early 00s era cars? I think the older Lexus IS250 has that rep too.

I think the 92-96 Camry was the one with the over-engineered rep. Of course, they still need to be maintained, but I have seen many over 250K miles. Same for that era of Accord - but one needs to do oil changes and timing belts by the book, or risk a lot.

ab348 said:

Which ones were the sludgemobiles?

We had a 95 Camry 4 cyl, and it was a great little car. My wife drove it mostly, but I really liked it. A light metalic gold with tan leather. I would put it in the top 5 or 6 cars we have had, as far as comfort, drivability, and reliability. Wife did not agree and traded it on an 97 Avalon. It was also a great car, but I still see many of that vintage Camry on the road.

sda

Of the many cars that I've had three that required clutch or transmission work. The '76 Sunbird V6 that I drove while I was in college and early work years was hard on clutches. This was a known issue. Part of the issue is that it had an economy 2.56 axle and to get the car going required more slipping of the clutch than desired otherwise it would ping and stall. I bought it with 18k and the clutch was replaced by the dealer before 20k and they covered 50% of the cost. It was replaced again around 55k and at 83k when I traded it for an '80 626 coupe the clutch was showing signs of needing replacement. Otherwise the Sunbird was trouble free. The lock up converter in the '82 Buick Skylark V6 X-body stopped working around 95k. Everything seemed to be going at 100k, ps, trans, engine starting to knock lightly, a/c Freon leak. It still looked nice and was rattle free. Go figure. Last was my '01 Aurora 4.0 around 75k. The lock up converter would not disengage and would cause the car to shudder and stall. An extended warranty took care of that replacement. Overall I've been pretty lucky.

fintail

They are everywhere here even today. Little old lady examples in excellent looking condition are not too unusual. Lots of younger driver beaters too - what'll do those in, along with Accords of the same era, is not keeping up with maintenance (or, of course, crashing it). I think they can rust pretty well too, something that isn't usually an issue here. I think early-mid 90s Camcords were the peak of the nameplate. Looking at them compared the overstyled pseudo-exciting 2017 counterparts is interesting, too.

Regarding a manual making a car last several hundred thousand miles with no transmission work, how many here want to keep a car that long? Isn't that the enemy of this thread title?

houdini1 said:

We had a 95 Camry 4 cyl, and it was a great little car. My wife drove it mostly, but I really liked it. A light metalic gold with tan leather. I would put it in the top 5 or 6 cars we have had, as far as comfort, drivability, and reliability. Wife did not agree and traded it on an 97 Avalon. It was also a great car, but I still see many of that vintage Camry on the road.

ab348

fintail said:

They are everywhere here even today. Little old lady examples in excellent looking condition are not too unusual. Lots of younger driver beaters too - what'll do those in, along with Accords of the same era, is not keeping up with maintenance (or, of course, crashing it). I think they can rust pretty well too, something that isn't usually an issue here.

Yep, you do not see any of them up here in the northeast any more, same with Accords of that vintage. Presumably they all rusted away. Still see the odd N.A. make - I just saw one of the Fox-based Ford LTDs from about '84 on the weekend.

suydam

One of my friends still drives a '98 Camry V6. Garaged in California it's whole life so it's in good condition. OTOH, my daughter had a '99 Camry 4 cyl that lived it's whole life in the Northeast. It did fine too. It was still running well when she sold it a few years back.

fintail

Those 97-01 Camrys are the most boring style to my eyes. But they last. One can go on about the soul-destroying driving experience, but in this area anyway, they last forever.

Someone at work DDs an old Camry, I think it's an 85 (composite lights, no CHMSL). Still moving along, looks to be in fair condition. If they work here I assume they are driving it out of frugality or attachment rather than complete necessity.

suydam

+1 on the boring component. Especially that brownish bronze color that everyone had -- kind of like shiny dirt. But for a college or first car boring is good.

ab348

suydam said:

One of my friends still drives a '98 Camry V6. Garaged in California it's whole life so it's in good condition. OTOH, my daughter had a '99 Camry 4 cyl that lived it's whole life in the Northeast. It did fine too. It was still running well when she sold it a few years back.

Behold the lethal power of road salt:

stever

Guess you guys don't keep them long enough to care but waxing our friend's loaner Cruze reminded me of why I don't want a black car and her blue one isn't doing too well either. This is one day after waxing.

kyfdx

'88-'91 were my favorite Camrys. You still had the rust issues, then, but in my mind, those were the best (outside of motorized seatbelts). Plenty of stick-shifts to be had, then, too.

qbrozen

stever said:

Guess you guys don't keep them long enough to care but waxing our friend's loaner Cruze reminded me of why I don't want a black car and her blue one isn't doing too well either. This is one day after waxing.

Tell her to stop parking inside a sawmill. ;b

Mr_Shiftright

"Ready to restore or use for parts. Ran when parked. In our family for 20 years. Some rust but not too bad. These old wagons are becoming collectible. $7,500, negotiable. Have other doors and fenders, sold separately. No low-ballers. Phone only. All texts and e-mails will be ignored. Cash only, no checks, cash in hand before test drive. Ask for Rocco. "

suydam

stever said:

Guess you guys don't keep them long enough to care but waxing our friend's loaner Cruze reminded me of why I don't want a black car and her blue one isn't doing too well either. This is one day after waxing.

When we lived in the country I wouldn't have either a black or a white car because of all the dirt roads and muddy lanes. Now I have both! The metallic black of the Encore did hide the dirt pretty well when we were back there.

stickguy

Here is one for Bradd. I moved on to the new models. I love the color on this low mile unit. But not the black interior with it. Don't like all black insides, and IMO does not match the paint color at all.

I assume the price is OK for a low mile CPO?

http://www.holmaninfiniti.com/VehicleDetails/certified-2015-INFINITI-Q50-3.7_AWD_Premium-Maple_Shade-NJ/2845703943

stever

qbrozen said:

Tell her to stop parking inside a sawmill. ;b

She's still out of town so that's my garage. We have to drive about two blocks down the gravel to get home.

ab348

suydam said:

The metallic black of the Encore did hide the dirt pretty well when we were back there.

That's because metallic black looks dusty even when freshly waxed!

nyccarguy

Looks good @stickguy. I agree the Chestnut Brown Exterior looks horrendous with the black guts.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

Here is one for Bradd. I moved on to the new models. I love the color on this low mile unit. But not the black interior with it. Don't like all black insides, and IMO does not match the paint color at all.

I assume the price is OK for a low mile CPO?

http://www.holmaninfiniti.com/VehicleDetails/certified-2015-INFINITI-Q50-3.7_AWD_Premium-Maple_Shade-NJ/2845703943

On the other end of the spectrum, an Audi dealer on Long Island has a 2017 S3 Premium Plus with no options (Black/Black 18" wheels). Did a few quick calculations. Even if they were to sell me the car at invoice, 36/15K payment would be $572.

The Audi dealer in Danbury has a $49K Sticker Price 2016 S3 Premium Plus (Tech, Metallic Paint, LED lights). If they were to let that go for $2K under invoice (marketing support), a 36/15K lease would be about $550.

28firefighter

Audi just does not seem to be pushing leasing all that much, it seems.

breld

nyccarguy said:

stickguy said:

Here is one for Bradd. I moved on to the new models. I love the color on this low mile unit. But not the black interior with it. Don't like all black insides, and IMO does not match the paint color at all.

I assume the price is OK for a low mile CPO?

http://www.holmaninfiniti.com/VehicleDetails/certified-2015-INFINITI-Q50-3.7_AWD_Premium-Maple_Shade-NJ/2845703943

On the other end of the spectrum, an Audi dealer on Long Island has a 2017 A3 Premium Plus with no options (Black/Black 18" wheels). Did a few quick calculations. Even if they were to sell me the car at invoice, 36/15K payment would be $572.

The Audi dealer in Danbury has a $49K Sticker Price 2016 A3 Premium Plus (Tech, Metallic Paint, LED lights). If they were to let that go for $2K under invoice (marketing support), a 36/15K lease would be about $550.

For what it's worth, the wife's S3, which was well loaded, was less than the sticker price on that A3.

andres3

suydam said:

+1 on the boring component. Especially that brownish bronze color that everyone had -- kind of like shiny dirt. But for a college or first car boring is good.

Those dirt like colors hide dirty and scratches about as well as any color.

Boring might be good for a first car, but boring usually means poor handling which means poor accident avoidance capability. I managed to spin the Camry sideways one time, but luckily I was able to maintain a straight line of motion so that I didn't hit anything (and no one hit me). I blame the spin on the very skinny tires my parents selected for the car, and the poor Toyota handling.

I could make the same maneuver that caused the spin in pretty much any car post-2000 and that spin would have never happened. It wasn't even particularly cold, and it wasn't raining either.

fintail

An old Camry is a great first car. They are kind of tank like, and have such dull handling that you'd have to be a Finn to hoon it.

49K for an A3...inflation.

stickguy

The 2017s are more car for less money. Plus you can get the sports seats for cheap. Gotta have those.

nyccarguy

@breld - WHOOPS! Both those cars I listed are S3s, not A3s. I just edited my original post.

stickguy

there is a slightly used one for a good price nearby. Though it was "on sale" for $39,500 last week. So make an offer. This is about 50k sticker I think.

http://www.eimports4less.com/detail-2016-audi-s3-certified_s3_quattro_awd_sedan_tech__navigation-used-15219285.html

tjc78

andres3 said:

suydam said:

+1 on the boring component. Especially that brownish bronze color that everyone had -- kind of like shiny dirt. But for a college or first car boring is good.

Those dirt like colors hide dirty and scratches about as well as any color.

Boring might be good for a first car, but boring usually means poor handling which means poor accident avoidance capability. I managed to spin the Camry sideways one time, but luckily I was able to maintain a straight line of motion so that I didn't hit anything (and no one hit me). I blame the spin on the very skinny tires my parents selected for the car, and the poor Toyota handling.

I could make the same maneuver that caused the spin in pretty much any car post-2000 and that spin would have never happened. It wasn't even particularly cold, and it wasn't raining either.

You spun a Camry? The vehicle basically has Understeer in the name.....

I guess if you flog anything hard enough.....

I agree with the others here an older gen Camry is a great first car. The 92-97 and 98-02 are truly indestructible in 4cyl form. I'd put them right up with a Panther for taking a beating and keep on going.

@nyccarguy Not great leases on those Audis, surprising as most Lux makes lease out pretty well.

iluvmysephia1

My 2009 rental Toyota Camry was a good rental. Tubby, floaty, but easy to drive, decent pick up and no problems from start ta finish out of Sea-Tac Airport in Seattle. Great VAC that year, took two of my sister's ta go see Burton Cummings/Randly Bachman in Kelowna, BC. No Google maps then, just a paper printout from Mapquest of how to get to the stadium downtown. Pulled right in to the parking lot, nary a missed turn. Great rock show! Burton's voice is...choice.  

Michaell

28firefighter said:

Audi just does not seem to be pushing leasing all that much, it seems.

Audis absolutely don't lease well, compared to other luxury brands.

sda

Michaell said:

28firefighter said:

Audi just does not seem to be pushing leasing all that much, it seems.

Audis absolutely don't lease well, compared to other luxury brands.

Is it because their residual is low? Even though they have improved on the reliability front I would still be cautious to own one out of warranty. Wonderful cars, however.

thebean

iluvmysephia1 said:

My 2009 rental Toyota Camry was a good rental. Tubby, floaty, but easy to drive, decent pick up and no problems from start ta finish out of Sea-Tac Airport in Seattle. Great VAC that year, took two of my sister's ta go see Burton Cummings/Randly Bachman in Kelowna, BC. No Google maps then, just a paper printout from Mapquest of how to get to the stadium downtown. Pulled right in to the parking lot, nary a missed turn. Great rock show! Burton's voice is...choice.  

No sugar tonight in my coffee, no sugar tonight in my tea!!  Ah, I remember The Guess Who well.

Michaell

sda said:

Michaell said:

28firefighter said:

Audi just does not seem to be pushing leasing all that much, it seems.

Audis absolutely don't lease well, compared to other luxury brands.

Is it because their residual is low? Even though they have improved on the reliability front I would still be cautious to own one out of warranty. Wonderful cars, however.

I would say that the Audi residuals are realistic, compared to BMW or MB.

iluvmysephia1

thebean - yep. The one that really got me up and jukin' was Randy's 'Takin' Care of Business.' Sounded great that night!

fintail

I suspect Audi doesn't/can't subsidize leases (via inflated residuals) like BMW and MB - not as many high margin models to take up the slack and keep numbers moving.

Mr_Shiftright

suydam said:

stever said:

Guess you guys don't keep them long enough to care but waxing our friend's loaner Cruze reminded me of why I don't want a black car and her blue one isn't doing too well either. This is one day after waxing.

When we lived in the country I wouldn't have either a black or a white car because of all the dirt roads and muddy lanes. Now I have both! The metallic black of the Encore did hide the dirt pretty well when we were back there.

Looks like bear tracks to me---you should lock your garage door at night.

corvette

Michaell said:

Audi just does not seem to be pushing leasing all that much, it seems.

Audis absolutely don't lease well, compared to other luxury brands.

The 2007 A4 I leased was $399/month with about $1,000 first and fees upfront. Haven't seen an Audi lease that good since. 

andres3

tjc78 said:

andres3 said:

suydam said:

+1 on the boring component. Especially that brownish bronze color that everyone had -- kind of like shiny dirt. But for a college or first car boring is good.

Those dirt like colors hide dirty and scratches about as well as any color.

Boring might be good for a first car, but boring usually means poor handling which means poor accident avoidance capability. I managed to spin the Camry sideways one time, but luckily I was able to maintain a straight line of motion so that I didn't hit anything (and no one hit me). I blame the spin on the very skinny tires my parents selected for the car, and the poor Toyota handling.

I could make the same maneuver that caused the spin in pretty much any car post-2000 and that spin would have never happened. It wasn't even particularly cold, and it wasn't raining either.

You spun a Camry? The vehicle basically has Understeer in the name.....

I guess if you flog anything hard enough.....

I agree with the others here an older gen Camry is a great first car. The 92-97 and 98-02 are truly indestructible in 4cyl form. I'd put them right up with a Panther for taking a beating and keep on going.

@nyccarguy Not great leases on those Audis, surprising as most Lux makes lease out pretty well.

It wasn't so much flogging as doing an emergency lane change twice back to back. Essentially changing lanes quickly, and then quickly deciding to go back to the previous lane. The Camry can handle one body contorting maneuver such as a single accident avoidance lane change, but don't try and do a quick right-left (or left-right), as the second input will send you around if you are on skinny hard tires. I think it was something like 185/70R14. I saw a 10 year old Camry with 225/50R18's the other day; big difference.

Taught me an early lesson about driving to the vehicle's capabilities. The Camry's limits with those tires were well below any other car I've driven. On the other hand, it was about the softest cushiest most comfy ride down the highway you could imagine.

Sandman6472

Our mid-90's Camry needed motor mounts as I recall. It was the 1993, not the 1995. Both good vehicles but the '93 needed replacement a bit too early as far as I was concerned. The '95 was a better vehicle for some reason and the only reason she got it was the '93 was t-boned and they never fixed it correctly. First time they tried to give it back, still had glass shards inside so we refused to accept it and just kept the rental. Once we did get it back, she was unhappy with it so within weeks, it was replaced by the 1995 model. Different color and different front and rear facia but she was happy and we kept it until she got the 2001 Altima GXE Special Edition, an outstanding vehicle!

The Sandman

stickguy

This could be interesting OF quality low miles! but no indication of what trans it has.

http://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/BMW/2008-BMW-3+Series-Cherry+Hill+NJ-fc5469de0a0e0a171812578af2e8c68f.htm?searchDepth=3:46

Sandman6472

Put a new 2017 Cruze next to a GLA 250 and they're about the same size, give or take. Starting to like the GLA better than the CLA and thinking that it could be my retirement replacement for the Golf when the time comes. A 2017 cpo unit would probably be the ideal candidate unless I retire the end of 2017, then a cpo 2016 unit could do. Seems like we're staying on the east coast of Florida for the forseeable future. My recently graduated pharmacist daughter got a job in South Miami and will be moving down there. The wife mentioned moving also but said no way would I ever live in Dade County, way too crowded there. Broward County where we live isn't that congested since it's a bedroom suburb of Ft. Lauderdale/Pompano Beach. No sense selling it now since she's staying on this coast and not looking at Ft. Myers any longer.

The Sandman

suydam

Fun times learning the ropes with a partial EV. I downloaded the PlugShare app which tells you what charging stations are available in your area. We are taking a little trip down the coast this weekend and will recharge the car when we get there. Also downloaded the MyChevy app, which shows you remotely how much charge you have (if you are charging it away from your house). Most Level 2 charging stations have a max of 4 hours and most of them are free. One is a mile from my house. Nice to use some of the time so we aren't putting it on our electric bill. So far, nearly 150 miles and not a drop of gas. The Volt drives beautifully and it will be fun to see how it does on our little road trip.

Sandman6472

Going to need new tires soon, my guy at Tires Plus likes the Bridgestone Serenity or a run flat version, not sure of the name though. Anyone have any thoughts on these Serenity tires? Supposed to be their top of the line, if that means anything. Never had run flats so not sure about them. I like a meaty tread but long lasting, something that's hard to find. He can get almost any tire for me though as he was able to get a replacement for the Pirelli tire needed for the A3 recently. Have Continentals now but he said they don't perform that well in the rain and since we get our fair share of the wet stuff, excellent wet handling is important to me.
Have a few thousand miles left on the oem tires but since I'm getting a rotation/alignment next week, might just go ahead a little early and replace them. Luckily, I've rotated every 5K and all four are wearing quite evenly.

The Sandman

stickguy

you have a spare. Stay away from run flats IMO. inferior overall performance, and usually don't last as long. Unless you are really afraid of getting a flat and having to put a donut on.

I am not a big Bridgestone fan, but have no direct experience with the Serenity.

Look at Tirerack, pick that one and a few others, and select the "compare" option. The consumer ratings can be illuminating, and if you are lucky, they did a test themselves.

suydam

I had the Serenitys on my Accord and really liked them. They were durable too. Not run flats.

stickguy

did a quick search. Serenity vs. my favorite Continentals. You wouldn't care about the snow ratings, though I certainly do!

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/CompareTires.jsp

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Turanza+Serenity+Plus&partnum=245WR7TSP

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Continental&tireModel=PureContact+with+EcoPlus+Technology&partnum=245HR7PUREC

roadburner

stickguy said:

This could be interesting OF quality low miles! but no indication of what trans it has.

http://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/BMW/2008-BMW-3+Series-Cherry+Hill+NJ-fc5469de0a0e0a171812578af2e8c68f.htm?searchDepth=3:46

Six speed manual; it also has DDC, navigation, Individual audio, and most every other option.
Alpine White with Bamboo Beige Novillo leather

tifighter

suydam said:

Fun times learning the ropes with a partial EV. I downloaded the PlugShare app which tells you what charging stations are available in your area. We are taking a little trip down the coast this weekend and will recharge the car when we get there. Also downloaded the MyChevy app, which shows you remotely how much charge you have (if you are charging it away from your house). Most Level 2 charging stations have a max of 4 hours and most of them are free. One is a mile from my house. Nice to use some of the time so we aren't putting it on our electric bill. So far, nearly 150 miles and not a drop of gas. The Volt drives beautifully and it will be fun to see how it does on our little road trip.

What are you paying for electricity in your neck of the woods?

corvette

Sandy, avoid the runflats since your car didn't come with them from the factory. I have always preferred Michelins, but really liked both the Pirellis I had on my Altima and the Kumhos I had on my BMW. The Sumitomos I have on my Murano have also been really good in the rain and on dry pavement. Not sure about snow, since I haven't driven it in the snow yet.

I would read the reviews for non-run-flat tires available in your size on Tire Rack and then buy the tires wherever you can get them at a fair price.

suydam

tifighter said:

suydam said:

Fun times learning the ropes with a partial EV. I downloaded the PlugShare app which tells you what charging stations are available in your area. We are taking a little trip down the coast this weekend and will recharge the car when we get there. Also downloaded the MyChevy app, which shows you remotely how much charge you have (if you are charging it away from your house). Most Level 2 charging stations have a max of 4 hours and most of them are free. One is a mile from my house. Nice to use some of the time so we aren't putting it on our electric bill. So far, nearly 150 miles and not a drop of gas. The Volt drives beautifully and it will be fun to see how it does on our little road trip.

What are you paying for electricity in your neck of the woods?

If you charge at night (lowest rate) it costs about $1.50 per charge.

stickguy

roadburner said:

stickguy said:

This could be interesting OF quality low miles! but no indication of what trans it has.

http://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/BMW/2008-BMW-3+Series-Cherry+Hill+NJ-fc5469de0a0e0a171812578af2e8c68f.htm?searchDepth=3:46

Six speed manual; it also has DDC, navigation, Individual audio, and most every other option.
Alpine White with Bamboo Beige Novillo leather

so basically, it is perfect, and I should want it bad even though I could never afford it?

Now I am really curious what they want for it. and why it ended up at the Subaru dealer!

I should go take it for a spin tomorrow, but with the polar vortex coming in tonight, might not want to leave the house. Plus the minor detail, that I am not actually in the market!