Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

rayainsw

I had to take the 2015 in for a uConnect software update,
and decided to test drive one of the 2 new 2017 R/Ts on their lot.
I was particularly interested in the ‘new for 2017’
“active exhaust” – previously not available on an R/T.
The 2015 is relatively quiet, even at WOT, so I was hoping
for just a bit more of that distinctive V8 heterodyne beat,
but not so much that I would disturb my neighbors,
rumbling out of my subdivision at 5:30AM.
Well, sadly, unless there is some way to tone the volume down
[ I scanned the 2017 Owner’s Manual .pdf – no joy ]
rather significantly, when off to work early each
weekday morning, this 2017 change will NOT work, for me.
Sad – it really does sound wonderful – just way too loud . . .
- Ray
[ sad face ]

abacomike

mark156 said:

abacomike said:

mark156 said:

Hey guys, staying a away a few days and I have over 10 pages to read!

Update: If you remember, I mentioned that we ordered a 2015 MB S550 4matic and we were to take delivery when the car arrived at the end of October. They super low-balled our two trades so we nixed the deal. A couple of days ago I received an email from the salesman saying that they still have the car and was there any way that we would reconsider. I said we'll be home in a couple of weeks and may give them a call. In the email he said that the "powers-that-be" will sharpen their pencil to make the deal work.

The car's MSRP is $114K, what do you guys think would be a good second offer (not including the trades).

I really didn't think we would reconsider as I was so angry.... time heals I guess. Or, it might be putting gasoline back on the fire.

Mark156

Just to update you on the S550, there are many around that can be had for $3000-$4000 below dealer invoice due to big trunk money available.

Thank you so much for the information, it will certainly come in handy if we decide to move forward.

M156


If you can find a 2016 around, one can be had for a few thousand under invoice - I know because I was just recently car shopping and checked into it - $10,000 trunk money was available. On the 2017's, it's $4000 trunk money from the manufacturer, but if you belong to USAA you can get a certificate from them for $4500 which you can present after you've negotiated your best deal. Unfortunately, you cannot use both - one or the other ($4000 from Mercedes or $4500 from USAA).

stever

Boise was about perfect, banana belt, occasional snow in town but good skiing within an hour's drive.

And if you got bored in the summer, the road to the hill featured 172 turns in 16 miles.

stickguy

I don't mind sweating. My wife does.

In Asheville NC today. Great place. I could live around here. Get actual seasons, but nothing drastic. We want to come back in the fall to do some hiking and exploring around. But the town is cool.

suydam

Michaell said:

As we look out on the 5" of fresh snow and -1 temperature, the wife and I talk again about warmer climes.

Finally got her to give me a potential location .... where it came from I'll never know.

Savannah, GA

Now, to figure out how to make it a reality.

Man it would be hot and humid in summer! You might miss the drier air.

suydam

Lot of California haters here! Here's my new Volt parked at our friend's house in Malibu. Seriously, 65-75 degrees year round? What's not to like.
First time we took the Volt on a little trip over the Conejo pass and then the highway through the Santa Monica mountains to Malibu. I am loving this car! First 50 miles electric and then it seamlessly switches to gas mode the rest of the way. Plenty of power over the two mountain passes, and great handling over the twisty Kanan Road to the Bu. On the highway the blind spot monitors are a real help. We are also very pleased with the tight turning radius and all the parking sensors are a great help in the very narrow streets and steep parking in Malibu. The backup cam not only has guidelines and cross traffic alert, but a red arrow shows you which direction the vehicle/pedestrian is coming from. The seats are very comfortable and supportive. Excellent audio system although it always needs some tweaking for me. Haven't tried the cruise control yet. And a gorgeous, gorgeous day.

corvette

Michaell said:

Our 2700 sq ft ranch with finished basement cost us $360K a year ago...

FYI, wet basements (or no basements) are a "thing" in the South. I don't think it's as common to have a leaky basement in CO.

corvette

suydam said:

Lot of California haters here! Here's my new Volt parked at our friend's house in Malibu. Seriously, 65-75 degrees year round?

The weather sounds perfect. But, I hear the police chief of Malibu is a real reactionary.

Michaell

suydam said:

Michaell said:

As we look out on the 5" of fresh snow and -1 temperature, the wife and I talk again about warmer climes.

Finally got her to give me a potential location .... where it came from I'll never know.

Savannah, GA

Now, to figure out how to make it a reality.

Man it would be hot and humid in summer! You might miss the drier air.

Yep. We went to NC a number of years ago in May, so she got a little taste of the humidity.

Michaell

suydam said:

Lot of California haters here! Here's my new Volt parked at our friend's house in Malibu. Seriously, 65-75 degrees year round? What's not to like.
First time we took the Volt on a little trip over the Conejo pass and then the highway through the Santa Monica mountains to Malibu. I am loving this car! First 50 miles electric and then it seamlessly switches to gas mode the rest of the way. Plenty of power over the two mountain passes, and great handling over the twisty Kanan Road to the Bu. On the highway the blind spot monitors are a real help. We are also very pleased with the tight turning radius and all the parking sensors are a great help in the very narrow streets and steep parking in Malibu. The backup cam not only has guidelines and cross traffic alert, but a red arrow shows you which direction the vehicle/pedestrian is coming from. The seats are very comfortable and supportive. Excellent audio system although it always needs some tweaking for me. Haven't tried the cruise control yet. And a gorgeous, gorgeous day.

Great picture and a great drive.

BTW, I think it's called the Conejo Grade.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

I don't mind sweating. My wife does.

In Asheville NC today. Great place. I could live around here. Get actual seasons, but nothing drastic. We want to come back in the fall to do some hiking and exploring around. But the town is cool.

We took a trip to Asheville last May. Awesome beer. Great minor league ballpark. It's a little rainy for year round. I'd want to be a little farther East in NC, for better weather.

suydam

Michaell said:

suydam said:

Lot of California haters here! Here's my new Volt parked at our friend's house in Malibu. Seriously, 65-75 degrees year round? What's not to like.
First time we took the Volt on a little trip over the Conejo pass and then the highway through the Santa Monica mountains to Malibu. I am loving this car! First 50 miles electric and then it seamlessly switches to gas mode the rest of the way. Plenty of power over the two mountain passes, and great handling over the twisty Kanan Road to the Bu. On the highway the blind spot monitors are a real help. We are also very pleased with the tight turning radius and all the parking sensors are a great help in the very narrow streets and steep parking in Malibu. The backup cam not only has guidelines and cross traffic alert, but a red arrow shows you which direction the vehicle/pedestrian is coming from. The seats are very comfortable and supportive. Excellent audio system although it always needs some tweaking for me. Haven't tried the cruise control yet. And a gorgeous, gorgeous day.

Great picture and a great drive.

BTW, I think it's called the Conejo Grade.

Yes it is.

Michaell

suydam said:

Michaell said:

suydam said:

Lot of California haters here! Here's my new Volt parked at our friend's house in Malibu. Seriously, 65-75 degrees year round? What's not to like.
First time we took the Volt on a little trip over the Conejo pass and then the highway through the Santa Monica mountains to Malibu. I am loving this car! First 50 miles electric and then it seamlessly switches to gas mode the rest of the way. Plenty of power over the two mountain passes, and great handling over the twisty Kanan Road to the Bu. On the highway the blind spot monitors are a real help. We are also very pleased with the tight turning radius and all the parking sensors are a great help in the very narrow streets and steep parking in Malibu. The backup cam not only has guidelines and cross traffic alert, but a red arrow shows you which direction the vehicle/pedestrian is coming from. The seats are very comfortable and supportive. Excellent audio system although it always needs some tweaking for me. Haven't tried the cruise control yet. And a gorgeous, gorgeous day.

Great picture and a great drive.

BTW, I think it's called the Conejo Grade.

Yes it is.

I've driven it countless times. While it's a big deal in CA, it's a molehill compared to the passes in CO.

Enjoy your time in Malibu.

suydam

Oh just a day trip. Wonderful day.

Michaell

suydam said:

Oh just a day trip. Wonderful day.

Hope you didn't experience too much traffic. I'm amazed at how bad the 101 has gotten in Ventura and SB counties.

imidazol97

suydam said:

First time we took the Volt on a little trip over the Conejo pass and then the highway through the Santa Monica mountains to Malibu. I am loving this car! First 50 miles electric and then it seamlessly switches to gas mode the rest of the way.

Very nice car. Good colors. And a gorgeous location there for posing. I'm sure you miss Ohio. 3-5 inches of white fluffy snow loaded the tree branches making them look like a Currier and Ives print, then near zero a couple of nights, warmed into thirties after overnight light freezing rain yesterday morning, and some freezing glaze on everything this morning as the temp drops from 26 down during the day. LOL

suydam said:

First 50 miles electric and then it seamlessly switches to gas mode the rest of the way.
...but a red arrow shows you which direction the vehicle/pedestrian is coming from. The seats are very comfortable and supportive.

No range anxiety! I like that the cross traffic alert picks up pedestrians. Especially helpful in Kroger parking lot where walkers pay no attention to someone trying to back out.

graphicguy

suydam said:

Lot of California haters here! Here's my new Volt parked at our friend's house in Malibu. Seriously, 65-75 degrees year round? What's not to like.
First time we took the Volt on a little trip over the Conejo pass and then the highway through the Santa Monica mountains to Malibu. I am loving this car! First 50 miles electric and then it seamlessly switches to gas mode the rest of the way. Plenty of power over the two mountain passes, and great handling over the twisty Kanan Road to the Bu. On the highway the blind spot monitors are a real help. We are also very pleased with the tight turning radius and all the parking sensors are a great help in the very narrow streets and steep parking in Malibu. The backup cam not only has guidelines and cross traffic alert, but a red arrow shows you which direction the vehicle/pedestrian is coming from. The seats are very comfortable and supportive. Excellent audio system although it always needs some tweaking for me. Haven't tried the cruise control yet. And a gorgeous, gorgeous day.

Beautiful car. And, as always, love the white.

Finding myself intrigued by the technological marvels that are the Volt and the Bolt. In the case of the Bolt, sounds like Chevy is beating Tesla at their own game.

That said, I would go for a Volt. I really like yours Suydam!

suydam

Thanks! We decided the gas engine gave us that added security to try out an EV. And it's been out for 2 years now and has good reliability ratings. The added surprise was how nice it is as a car.
It has so many goodies we haven't figured them all out yet. Supposedly you can charge your phone wirelessly by sticking it into a slot near the armrest. No need to buy a car phone charger. I have to sit down with the manual and figure these out.

carnaught

suydam, two questions about the Volt. (Sorry if said before, but I don't recall.) What was the Premier's sticker mrsp, and do you have the rapid charger?

nyccarguy

I'm thinking about getting a set of snow shoes for my Legacy. The stock Goodyear Assurance with 42K miles weren't very reassuring in yesterday's storm. They felt like they weren't digging into the snow and the car felt a little skittish on the highway. I'm going to look into Bridegstone Blizzaks or Michelin X-Ice.

cdnpinhead

As referenced earlier, the Subaru Forester search is on. I've poked around (Edmunds, cars.com, TrueCar) & have a decent idea of MSRP & "invoice" pricing, plus their various ideas of a reasonable price to pay. I'd love to have some of what the guys at TRUECar are smoking, given the offer they think is reasonable, compared to Edmunds TMV and Cars.com "smart target price." I went through the rain dance to sign up with TRUECar & their local affiliates and didn't get a single response, e-mail, phone or otherwise.

I think I've figured out how to compute Arizona's method of calculating the registration fee & the local sales taxes for the various communities around here, so perhaps I'm ready to come up with an all-in out-the-door offer. I'm out of practice; I haven't done this in eight years, so we'll see how it goes. Couldn't be a better time, given the end of the month/quarter/year coming up in the next couple of weeks.

But, the biggest factor appears to be finding a vehicle configured the right way. I'm looking for a Premium with the Helen Keller package (Eyesight) and not much else, beyond what I think is a dealer-installed Homelink rear view mirror. But, by the time you add a color choice, it becomes apparent that the whole of the Phoenix metropolitan area doesn't stock what I'm looking for. Incidentally, if the beloved Pathfinder had had some form of the Helen Keller package, we'd probably still have it. Oh well. . .

Anyway, I now know that there's a dealer in Colorado Springs who claims to be the biggest Subaru dealer in the universe and, sure enough, he has just what we want in stock.

I realize I'm not worthy to touch the hem of the garments of the regulars here, since I buy a car about once every 6-8 years, but there's a lot of knowledge lurking on the board. Thanks for humoring me.

To be continued. . .

suydam

carnaught said:

suydam, two questions about the Volt. (Sorry if said before, but I don't recall.) What was the Premier's sticker mrsp, and do you have the rapid charger?

The MRSP was $40k, their selling price was $37k, and they rebated most of the $7500 federal money off the price , so final price was around $30k. And I get a check from Calif. for $1500 and a Costco card for $700. The Costco promotion ends this month I believe. It's a Premiere with every possible option.

No, I don't have a charging station. I can charge overnight in my garage with a regular outlet if I want. However, there's a free 240 volt charging station with 2 plugs a mile from my house so I've been charging it there. Takes about 4 hours.
Since I live in a condo, installing my own charger would be expensive and difficult. I'm the first person in the complex with an EV so I get to be the guinea pig for this issue.

stickguy

Bradd, new AS tires that rate well for snow should be plenty for the NYC metro area. Not like you get that much snow.

suydam

@cdpinhead, love the Forester and will be interested in your search process, but could you please just use the term "Eyesight"? There are cars equipped that some sight-impaired people can drive, but that isn't what the Eyesight system is.

nyccarguy

@cdnpinhead - with the infrequency that you buy cars, getting exactly what you want is very important. I'd imagine finding a Premium with just eyesight will be difficult. Most premiums that have eyesight will also most likely have sunroof package.

When I was shopping for my Legacy 2+ years ago, the eyesight package was in high demand and short supply. Most cars that had eyesight were loaded up with sunroof,navigation, & eyesight which pushed the sticker price up considerably. It is cool technology & for the price, you get a lot in the package (auto brake, blind spot decection). For me it wasn't worth the 6+ week wait plus the thousands extra in option packages that I didn't want.

That being said, I've done quite well without the eyesight pkg for 2 years & almost 3 months.

Michaell

@cdnpinhead have you checked Tucson or Flagstaff?

I've walked the Heuberger lot - there are cars all over the place. It's about a two day drive to get back.

abacomike

@cdnpinhead :

Good luck in finding the exact vehicle you are looking for. It shouldn't be too hard - especially with dealer trades. If there is a car at the port of entry or on the ocean that is exactly what you want, often dealers can dealer trade those vehicles once they arrive at the port of entry with no extra costs involved for transportation. All they do is put on a new vehicle sticker and ship it to the new dealership.

coldinohio

nyccarguy said:

I'm thinking about getting a set of snow shoes for my Legacy. The stock Goodyear Assurance with 42K miles weren't very reassuring in yesterday's storm. They felt like they weren't digging into the snow and the car felt a little skittish on the highway. I'm going to look into Bridegstone Blizzaks or Michelin X-Ice.in NE ohio

E ohio

coldinohio

humm posting an issue; sorry
re winter tires: really was unstoppable in NE ohio on Blizzaks on my A4; used tire rack as needed wheels too o/w would do Costco

Mr_Shiftright

So what do you do? Take two cars to the charging station and then go pick it up? Or jog home, or ???

suydam

Take 2 cars and pick it up later. Usually we are out running errands anyway so we drop the Volt off first. I can also charge it free at the dealer and walk over to a nearby mall and see a movie and have dinner. Or just charge it overnight at home -- costs maybe a buck fifty or so.

Mr_Shiftright

So let's see---- on a highly fuel-efficient car, like a VW TWI, for $1.50 I could go about 22 miles here in California. In other parts of the country, I might get as much as 30 miles on a buck-fifty.

On my Mini Cooper, I would be able to drive about 14 miles for $1.50 (28 mpg @ $3 a gallon)

suydam

Or you could go around 250 miles and not spend anything, which is what we've done so far. Then if you switch to gas you get over 40 mpg since it's a hybrid. I'm getting around 26 mpg in the Encore driving around here because of all the stop-start traffic, so that's my compare. Probably would have been 28 mpg if we'd got the Mazda3.
There are also many workplaces around here that have free charging stations, so people charge while they're at work. Doesn't work for us since we are both retired.

Mr_Shiftright

Well yeah, but someone is paying for that electricity---so that's why I was trying to figure it out on a cost per mile basis.

suydam

It's surprising how little the electric draw is. Like running a washing machine. We're also burning less fossil fuels. Somebody has to pay for pollution too, it's all on what you prioritize. As one of my Environmental Studies profs once told me, no one thinks to put a price on clean air and water. We just take it for granted.

cdnpinhead

nyccarguy said:

@cdnpinhead - with the infrequency that you buy cars, getting exactly what you want is very important. I'd imagine finding a Premium with just eyesight will be difficult. Most premiums that have eyesight will also most likely have sunroof package.

The sun/moonroof is now standard on everything above the base model, including the Premium. Thanks for the input, though.

You are exactly correct -- as long as we keep vehicles, getting it right is important. To get the color I wanted on my TSX with a manual transmission and no nav package, I had to pay to have it brought down from Denver, but that was 8 years and 125K miles ago. Glad I did it.

kyfdx

nyccarguy said:

I'm thinking about getting a set of snow shoes for my Legacy. The stock Goodyear Assurance with 42K miles weren't very reassuring in yesterday's storm. They felt like they weren't digging into the snow and the car felt a little skittish on the highway. I'm going to look into Bridegstone Blizzaks or Michelin X-Ice.

I've had both... also, Continentals, Dunlops and Goodyears.

The Goodyears were the best, but hard to find and pricey.

Nokian WR are great tires, and wear well enough to use all year-round. Really expensive in comparison, but no need to swap out, and have great winter traction.

cdnpinhead

suydam said:

@cdpinhead, love the Forester and will be interested in your search process, but could you please just use the term "Eyesight"? There are cars equipped that some sight-impaired people can drive, but that isn't what the Eyesight system is.

Point taken. I come from the days when cars depended on the driver much more than today, when it's vice-versa. Nowadays a light-hearted comment can, and often is, taken as a microagression -- not my intent.

sb55

nyccarguy said:

I'm thinking about getting a set of snow shoes for my Legacy. The stock Goodyear Assurance with 42K miles weren't very reassuring in yesterday's storm. They felt like they weren't digging into the snow and the car felt a little skittish on the highway. I'm going to look into Bridegstone Blizzaks or Michelin X-Ice.

nyccarguy said:

I'm thinking about getting a set of snow shoes for my Legacy. The stock Goodyear Assurance with 42K miles weren't very reassuring in yesterday's storm. They felt like they weren't digging into the snow and the car felt a little skittish on the highway. I'm going to look into Bridegstone Blizzaks or Michelin X-Ice.

Consider the X-ice. Less aggressive than the Blizzaks and also good on dry/cold pavement. I had them on my last BMW and just put a set on my new BMW.
When I lived in Westchester, I tried to get away with all seasons (no seasons???). Living in Northern Vermont snow tires are a must as clear roads are not a given, up here.

cdnpinhead

abacomike said:

@cdnpinhead : Good luck in finding the exact vehicle you are looking for. It shouldn't be too hard - especially with dealer trades. If there is a car at the port of entry or on the ocean that is exactly what you want, often dealers can dealer trade those vehicles once they arrive at the port of entry with no extra costs involved for transportation. All they do is put on a new vehicle sticker and ship it to the new dealership.

This is good to know, as many of the cars that are listed in dealer inventories are labeled "in transit."

Thanks.

stickguy

Keep in mind NYC is going to put a good98%, maybe more, miles on dry and crappy highways. So need to skew toward tha, not deep snow traction.

houdini1

suydam said:

It's surprising how little the electric draw is. Like running a washing machine. We're also burning less fossil fuels. Somebody has to pay for pollution too, it's all on what you prioritize. As one of my Environmental Studies profs once told me, no one thinks to put a price on clean air and water. We just take it for granted.

Suydam, nice car. Can you explain why a plug in hybrid is better than a regular hybrid? Since you have a gas engine as well, does the engine act as a generator to charge the batter and does it have regeneration braking that also helps charge? If so, why the need for plug in? Just more miles on electric power only? Does it have a mode where it operates like a conventional hybrid or does it just use electricity until the battery goes completely down before it switches over to gas? Sorry for all the questions, but I am curious.

Michaell

houdini1 said:

suydam said:

It's surprising how little the electric draw is. Like running a washing machine. We're also burning less fossil fuels. Somebody has to pay for pollution too, it's all on what you prioritize. As one of my Environmental Studies profs once told me, no one thinks to put a price on clean air and water. We just take it for granted.

Suydam, nice car. Can you explain why a plug in hybrid is better than a regular hybrid? Since you have a gas engine as well, does the engine act as a generator to charge the batter and does it have regeneration braking that also helps charge? If so, why the need for plug in? Just more miles on electric power only? Does it have a mode where it operates like a conventional hybrid or does it just use electricity until the battery goes completely down before it switches over to gas? Sorry for all the questions, but I am curious.

The Volt isn't a hybrid, like the Prius.

The gas engine in the Volt is used to provide energy to the on-board batteries. The Volt is 100% electric powered; the engine is a backup to the stored energy you get when you plug in.

The gas engine does not power the wheels.

stickguy

I believe plug ins get a bigger battery and more EV only range. The engine is really a generator, so by plugging in, it does not have to run as often b

roadburner

Michaell said:

houdini1 said:

suydam said:

It's surprising how little the electric draw is. Like running a washing machine. We're also burning less fossil fuels. Somebody has to pay for pollution too, it's all on what you prioritize. As one of my Environmental Studies profs once told me, no one thinks to put a price on clean air and water. We just take it for granted.

Suydam, nice car. Can you explain why a plug in hybrid is better than a regular hybrid? Since you have a gas engine as well, does the engine act as a generator to charge the batter and does it have regeneration braking that also helps charge? If so, why the need for plug in? Just more miles on electric power only? Does it have a mode where it operates like a conventional hybrid or does it just use electricity until the battery goes completely down before it switches over to gas? Sorry for all the questions, but I am curious.

The Volt isn't a hybrid, like the Prius.

The gas engine in the Volt is used to provide energy to the on-board batteries. The Volt is 100% electric powered; the engine is a backup to the stored energy you get when you plug in.

The gas engine does not power the wheels.

Actually, the Volt is a series hybrid- just like the i3 REx. We have yet to empty the i3's 2 gallon fuel tank in almost 2000 miles of driving. The 650cc twin has fired up three times; once for a maintenance cycle(when the car fires the engine up for 10 minutes if it hasn't been used for a while) and twice when we ran the battery down to below 7%. We are still just using the 110V "occasional use" EVSE(charger) and the car is almost always fully charged by the next morning. We may yet install a Level 2, but I'm waiting to see if the 30% Federal tax credit for installing one carries over to 2017.
I have to confess that the environmentally friendly aspects of the car didn't really figure into our decision to lease it; my wife likes saving money and I like playing with new technology.

stever

Unfortunately there's very little that's eco friendly about manufacturing the traction batteries. (Washington Post)

suydam

Here's what GM has to say:
http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht

suydam

stever said:

Unfortunately there's very little that's eco friendly about manufacturing the traction batteries. (Washington Post)

Well, it's all very complex. Which numbers do you want to crunch?
"Battery electric cars make up for their higher manufacturing emissions within eighteen months of driving—shorter range models can offset the extra emissions within 6 months—and continue to outperform gasoline cars until the end of their lives."
http://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/life-cycle-ev-emissions#.WFeCdNA76hA

carnaught

With cars like the Volt, Bolt and i3, I'd be hard pressed to get a Tesla with it's range anxiety included at no extra cost.

graphicguy

suydam said:

Here's what GM has to say:
http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht

Another interesting article with a link under your article.


http://www.plugincars.com/popularity-new-volt-shows-potential-second-generation-plug-ins-131573.html

The Volt seems to be the new "it" car to have.

Be interested to hear your MPG/eMPG and how performance and handling are in the Volt.