Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

corvette

I think Tesla has a faster and more consistent charging network compared to what is available for the Bolt, Leaf, and other pure EVs. Easier to do a long road trip with a Tesla. 

Mr_Shiftright

That's true, but what happens when Tesla goes belly up, or at least gets out of the car business?

In its present form, and with what information is available to little old me, I don't see Tesla as a sustainable enterprise.

suydam

You'd never think that around here. I see a lot of Teslas on the road.

Mr_Shiftright

That doesn't matter if you're burning your capital up.

fintail

Trying to think of the worst way to spend 150K on a car. Loaded Model X, there you are.

I'd want some kind of third party vetting about claims made by battery production too - as the sources of this data likely come from our most favored trading "partner" with no verification, and if the numbers look good, the lobby will run with it no questions asked.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't know what to make of Tesla. On the one hand, the used Tesla market seems good (although maybe not as good as it was), but on the other hand, their very creative accounting methods give one pause. Also, their big plans for expanding sales in China fell pretty flat. I think last year they sold 3,500 cars there. If you matched that against population, those are King Midget numbers.

One extremely astute auto analyst, who has been proven right any number of times (Adam Jones) thinks Tesla will miss its target date for the Model 3 by a wide margin, and that many of the 400,000 subscribers for the car won't see one before 2021. Given that he predicts Tesla to be capital-short by 2018, it remains to be seen what the company's future actually is.

andres3

roadburner said:

Bradd, Kentucky has a statute known as the Unfair Claims Settlement Practices Act(KRS 304.12-230). If an insurer fails to settle or pay a claim in good faith the insured can recover prejudgment interest (12% per annum) and reasonable attorney’s fees incurred. You might want to check and see if NJ has a similar law.

UGH! I'd rather go out and buy a soulless Camry before having to sue an Insurance company for bad faith claims processing. Of course, if a lawyer were willing to sign on for free with only a portion of the winnings as payment; maybe it is worth it if they think you have a case.

andres3

kyfdx said:

roadburner said:

Bradd, Kentucky has a statute known as the Unfair Claims Settlement Practices Act(KRS 304.12-230). If an insurer fails to settle or pay a claim in good faith the insured can recover prejudgment interest (12% per annum) and reasonable attorney’s fees incurred. You might want to check and see if NJ has a similar law.

Most insurance policies don't include coverage for finished basements. Just for mechanicals (furnace, hot water heater, etc). I have a sewer backup insurance rider, but that will only cover the above, plus clean-up. Dry wall, carpet, built-in cabinets, bar, etc, etc... are basically uninsured.

You'd be surprised what isn't insured by a homeowner's policy.

Or by your Auto Insurance policy exclusions that seems to get longer and longer every year.

Last time I looked I saw stuff like:

Acts of War, Acts of Terrorism.

Good luck trying to sue ISIS.

andres3

28firefighter said:

I was curious with all the 1/4 mile times what my stock GTI does - 14.5 second quarter mile. Here is the interesting thing - with the a Stage 1 tune, I could see that drop into the high 12s. Now, I'm not risking my warranty to do that, but, it is tempting.

What warranty?, I thought VW was giving you the runaround with the warranty?

xwesx

nyccarguy said:

I'm thinking about getting a set of snow shoes for my Legacy. The stock Goodyear Assurance with 42K miles weren't very reassuring in yesterday's storm. They felt like they weren't digging into the snow and the car felt a little skittish on the highway. I'm going to look into Bridegstone Blizzaks or Michelin X-Ice.

You put a lot of miles on your car, and you're likely going to experience a lot of dry roads mixed in with that snow and ice. As such, I honestly recommend Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice. Not quite as sticky as Blizzak or X-Ice on straight ice, but they are close, and they last far, far longer (like at least twice as long).

I pushed my Blizzak to three seasons, and they were definitely done (as winter tires, anyway) by the end of that time, and I might get three seasons out of my X-Ice.

I ran my first set of Ultra Grips for five seasons, and probably could have got another out of them if I wanted to push them like the Blizzaks. I have a second set of UGIs, and am on season three, and they are still golden.

xwesx

Michaell said:

@cdnpinhead have you checked Tucson or Flagstaff?

I've walked the Heuberger lot - there are cars all over the place. It's about a two day drive to get back.

From the other side of the lot, or back to Arizona?

houdini1

suydam said:

Here's what GM has to say:
http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht

Here is all I need to know. If you jump in your Volt and start driving, approximately how far can you go, using all forms of motive power before you run out of power. Once out of all power, can you just fill up with gas and continue?

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

That's true, but what happens when Tesla goes belly up, or at least gets out of the car business?

In its present form, and with what information is available to little old me, I don't see Tesla as a sustainable enterprise.

Lease Supercharger space to the other manufacturers.

They're still in start-up phase and trying to get people hooked. As time wears on, the number of freebies will dwindle (that process is already beginning), and people will still buy them.

tifighter

houdini1 said:

Once out of all power, can you just fill up with gas and continue?

I know the answer to that last one is yes.

suydam

houdini1 said:

suydam said:

Here's what GM has to say:
http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht

Here is all I need to know. If you jump in your Volt and start driving, approximately how far can you go, using all forms of motive power before you run out of power. Once out of all power, can you just fill up with gas and continue?

400 miles total range. 50+ electric, the rest gas.

stever

Semantics and who am I to argue with a GM engineer, but it's a hybrid to me.

suydam

Well what you call it depends on how much Calif. rebate you get. The way I think of it, it's a hybrid long distance, all electric around town.

stever

There you go - that's why a tomato is a veggie for the USDA and a fruit for botanists.

Michaell

xwesx said:

Michaell said:

@cdnpinhead have you checked Tucson or Flagstaff?

I've walked the Heuberger lot - there are cars all over the place. It's about a two day drive to get back.

From the other side of the lot, or back to Arizona?

The lot is built into the side of a hill, so it's a bit of a walk to see the entire inventory.

But, I meant the drive back to AZ. We always stopped in Santa Fe on our trips to Sedona.

houdini1

Mr_Shiftright said:

That's true, but what happens when Tesla goes belly up, or at least gets out of the car business?

In its present form, and with what information is available to little old me, I don't see Tesla as a sustainable enterprise.

I have to agree.

houdini1

suydam said:

houdini1 said:

suydam said:

Here's what GM has to say:
http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-chief-engineer-explains-volt-drivetrain-says-volt-electric-vehicle-90758.ht

Here is all I need to know. If you jump in your Volt and start driving, approximately how far can you go, using all forms of motive power before you run out of power. Once out of all power, can you just fill up with gas and continue?

400 miles total range. 50+ electric, the rest gas.

Thanks suydam, I can see the advantage of electric only around town...and still no range anxiety.

suydam

stever said:

There you go - that's why a tomato is a veggie for the USDA and a fruit for botanists.

But any way you slice it they're delicious! That's how I'm feeling about this car.

nyccarguy

xwesx said:

nyccarguy said:

I'm thinking about getting a set of snow shoes for my Legacy. The stock Goodyear Assurance with 42K miles weren't very reassuring in yesterday's storm. They felt like they weren't digging into the snow and the car felt a little skittish on the highway. I'm going to look into Bridegstone Blizzaks or Michelin X-Ice.

You put a lot of miles on your car, and you're likely going to experience a lot of dry roads mixed in with that snow and ice. As such, I honestly recommend Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice. Not quite as sticky as Blizzak or X-Ice on straight ice, but they are close, and they last far, far longer (like at least twice as long).

I pushed my Blizzak to three seasons, and they were definitely done (as winter tires, anyway) by the end of that time, and I might get three seasons out of my X-Ice.

I ran my first set of Ultra Grips for five seasons, and probably could have got another out of them if I wanted to push them like the Blizzaks. I have a second set of UGIs, and am on season three, and they are still golden.

Thank-you all for the input regarding winter tires. I had a set of Blizzaks on my 1992 Chevrolet Beretta GT that got me through some very tough central New York winters (Ithaca). Besides their ferocious grip, I do remember them droning on the highway while going to and from school on breaks and that they were shot by year 4.

I ran a set of Michelin Pilot Alpins on my Prelude for the better part of 8 winters. They were fantastic. Made me not even want to look at an AWD/4WD vehicle.

I see a local tire place has Good Year ULTRA GRIP WINTER tires listed in my Subaru's size. Is this the same as ULTRA GRIP ICE?

xwesx

The Winter tire is studdable, while the Ice is studless. The Winter has a very open-block, aggressive design, so it is noisier than the Ice, but does have very good traction, particularly in deep snow. Frankly, for a road tire, I don't think there is anything better on the market than the Winter for deep snow. The UGI is the best of the studless bunch for deep snow, but doesn't hold a candle to the Winter for it.

Before Goodyear redesigned their UGI with the "WRT" designation, the Winter design was the UGI (and was studless) in the past, which is what I had on my Forester for its first five winters. When I replaced them, the WRT is what they had. While still great for longevity and ice, I was disappointed with their snow capability compared to the first set (the "Winter" design). But, after also trying Blizzak and X-Ice, I found out that they still beat that pants of either of those!

Currently, we have the WRTs, which we bought for the 2010 Forester, on the 2008 Forester, and a set of X-Ice3 on the 2010.

xwesx

Here's a picture of the original Ultra Grip Ice when I first installed them on the Forester, for comparison to the current UGW:

xwesx

Looking at that compared to the Winter, I think a major difference may be the siping present on the two models (likely to accommodate the ability to stud the Winter). The rubber compound, from what I've read, is the same. Depending on cost of tires, you could likely have the shop sipe the tires upon install for added ice grip without adding studs (I am not a fan of studs!).

Otherwise, I would just go with a studless model.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

I don't know what to make of Tesla. On the one hand, the used Tesla market seems good (although maybe not as good as it was), but on the other hand, their very creative accounting methods give one pause. Also, their big plans for expanding sales in China fell pretty flat. I think last year they sold 3,500 cars there. If you matched that against population, those are King Midget numbers.

One extremely astute auto analyst, who has been proven right any number of times (Adam Jones) thinks Tesla will miss its target date for the Model 3 by a wide margin, and that many of the 400,000 subscribers for the car won't see one before 2021. Given that he predicts Tesla to be capital-short by 2018, it remains to be seen what the company's future actually is.

That pretty much mirrors my perception. I am shocked so many people dropped a few grand on a deposit for a car that may never get, and they won't get their money back, either.

imidazol97

One extremely astute auto analyst, who has been proven right any number of times (Adam Jones) thinks Tesla will miss its target date for the Model 3 by a wide margin, and that many of the 400,000 subscribers for the car won't see one before 2021. Given that he predicts Tesla to be capital-short by 2018, it remains to be seen what the company's future actually is.

Sounds like people with a Tesla should be more concerned about capital anxiety and Tesla's enterprises running out of government subsidies from my tax money more than about range anxiety. 4.9 billion.
LOL

corvette

qbrozen said:

I don't know what to make of Tesla. On the one hand, the used Tesla market seems good (although maybe not as good as it was), but on the other hand, their very creative accounting methods give one pause. Also, their big plans for expanding sales in China fell pretty flat. I think last year they sold 3,500 cars there. If you matched that against population, those are King Midget numbers. One extremely astute auto analyst, who has been proven right any number of times (Adam Jones) thinks Tesla will miss its target date for the Model 3 by a wide margin, and that many of the 400,000 subscribers for the car won't see one before 2021. Given that he predicts Tesla to be capital-short by 2018, it remains to be seen what the company's future actually is.

That pretty much mirrors my perception. I am shocked so many people dropped a few grand on a deposit for a car that may never get, and they won't get their money back, either.

I thought the deposit was refundable, assuming Tesla doesn't go Tango Uniform. 

Mr_Shiftright

Well I think that was the man's point--that subscribers are going to pull out because Tesla doesn't have a chance in hell of meeting the promised delivery date.

I mean, the whole basis for a car company is actually having cars to sell.

nyccarguy

http://www.townfairtire.com/brand/tires/goodyear/ultra-grip-winter/225~55r17t/766726358/

These are what I can get a hold of @xwesx. What do you think?

I don't need to have them studded.

qbrozen

corvette said:

I thought the deposit was refundable, assuming Tesla doesn't go Tango Uniform. 

going bankrupt is exactly what I'm referring to. That money will be LONG GONE.

andres3

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I don't know what to make of Tesla. On the one hand, the used Tesla market seems good (although maybe not as good as it was), but on the other hand, their very creative accounting methods give one pause. Also, their big plans for expanding sales in China fell pretty flat. I think last year they sold 3,500 cars there. If you matched that against population, those are King Midget numbers.

One extremely astute auto analyst, who has been proven right any number of times (Adam Jones) thinks Tesla will miss its target date for the Model 3 by a wide margin, and that many of the 400,000 subscribers for the car won't see one before 2021. Given that he predicts Tesla to be capital-short by 2018, it remains to be seen what the company's future actually is.

That pretty much mirrors my perception. I am shocked so many people dropped a few grand on a deposit for a car that may never get, and they won't get their money back, either.

If they go bankrupt they are owed at least 1, maybe 2 (*cough* Chrysler *cough*) bail outs prior to going bankrupt or to prevent bankruptcy as an American car company.

stever

In other news, this is what's in my garage for a few days (don't get excited @Michaell - it's a rental this time).



@jmonroe, I checked on the film this morning and I think it fell off the buckboard on the way to Mr. Brady's studio. Maybe next week.

thebean

andres3 said:

I don't know what to make of Tesla. On the one hand, the used Tesla market seems good (although maybe not as good as it was), but on the other hand, their very creative accounting methods give one pause. Also, their big plans for expanding sales in China fell pretty flat. I think last year they sold 3,500 cars there. If you matched that against population, those are King Midget numbers. One extremely astute auto analyst, who has been proven right any number of times (Adam Jones) thinks Tesla will miss its target date for the Model 3 by a wide margin, and that many of the 400,000 subscribers for the car won't see one before 2021. Given that he predicts Tesla to be capital-short by 2018, it remains to be seen what the company's future actually is.

That pretty much mirrors my perception. I am shocked so many people dropped a few grand on a deposit for a car that may never get, and they won't get their money back, either.

If they go bankrupt they are owed at least 1, maybe 2 (*cough* Chrysler *cough*) bail outs prior to going bankrupt or to prevent bankruptcy as an American car company.

Bitter much?

Mr_Shiftright

stever said:

In other news, this is what's in my garage for a few days (don't get excited @Michaell - it's a rental this time).



@jmonroe, I checked on the film this morning and I think it fell off the buckboard on the way to Mr. Brady's studio. Maybe next week.

Steve, they don't make cars with wood stoves, so you'd better just resign yourself and buy something.

xwesx

nyccarguy said:

http://www.townfairtire.com/brand/tires/goodyear/ultra-grip-winter/225~55r17t/766726358/

These are what I can get a hold of @xwesx. What do you think?

I don't need to have them studded.

Looks reasonable for that size/ratio. If possible, I would see if they can get you out of there for under $600, but I don't know what sort of tax, demand, etc., you folks have over there. It seems like everything east of the Mississippi is taxed, though, and more and more on the other side, too!

225/55R17 is the same size as the stock tires on our 2010 Forester. I have a hard time believing that Legacy tires are that big these days! I have dedicated rims on ours, so put 215/65R16 on it, which saves me about $30-40 per tire. Of course, you have to buy the rims, but I figure I save $120 a year ($60 twice annually) by not swapping the tires on/off rims, so they pay for themselves with in five years.

.
.
.
.

And, then I remember which forum I'm in.....

xwesx

stever said:

In other news, this is what's in my garage for a few days (don't get excited @Michaell - it's a rental this time).

@jmonroe, I checked on the film this morning and I think it fell off the buckboard on the way to Mr. Brady's studio. Maybe next week.

Steve, you and the missus should go visit Gary and his wife in San Diego. Maybe take the Toureg out for a couple nice cruises. I think you would find that to be quite the engaging ride (diesel and all!).

Sandman6472

Speaking of tires, my Tires Plus friend is pushing the Bridgestone Serenity Plus tires. Pretty decent from what I've read so far. Would get the same Continental's I have on there now but he says the Serenity's are a better all around touring tire, which is what I want. No need for performance tires down south here as I'm looking for longevity with this next set. Hoping to get a 50K tread life if possible. He says I can wait a few thousand miles but might just have him throw on a set Wednesday when I go in for the rotation/alignment check. It was a bit squirrely in the rain the other day which is why I went in and had him look at the treads in the first place. One thing I don't mess with is tires for us...I want decent tread on all the vehicles in our fleet as no one has time for a flat or blown tire, just isn't necessary. Want safety at all times and don't mind putting on new sneakers a bit early as I've got to do it soon anyways.
Have learned in life "one gets what they pay for". On tires, refuse to get cheap ones that won't last a decent amount of time, that's one thing I won't cheapen out on! Best to buy decent tires at a decent price.

The Sandman

nyccarguy

xwesx said:

nyccarguy said:

http://www.townfairtire.com/brand/tires/goodyear/ultra-grip-winter/225~55r17t/766726358/

These are what I can get a hold of @xwesx. What do you think?

I don't need to have them studded.

Looks reasonable for that size/ratio. If possible, I would see if they can get you out of there for under $600, but I don't know what sort of tax, demand, etc., you folks have over there. It seems like everything east of the Mississippi is taxed, though, and more and more on the other side, too!

225/55R17 is the same size as the stock tires on our 2010 Forester. I have a hard time believing that Legacy tires are that big these days! I have dedicated rims on ours, so put 215/65R16 on it, which saves me about $30-40 per tire. Of course, you have to buy the rims, but I figure I save $120 a year ($60 twice annually) by not swapping the tires on/off rims, so they pay for themselves with in five years.

.
.
.
.

And, then I remember which forum I'm in.....

The 225/55 R17 is the stock size for my 2015 Legacy 2.5i Premium. I think the stock Goodyear Assurance tires are shot. They have treadlife left, but are very noisy. I might keep the snow tires on the stock wheels and try to buy a set of 18" wheels from either the Legacy Limited or Legacy Sport in the Spring.

kyfdx

sandman_6472 said:

Speaking of tires, my Tires Plus friend is pushing the Bridgestone Serenity Plus tires. Pretty decent from what I've read so far. Would get the same Continental's I have on there now but he says the Serenity's are a better all around touring tire, which is what I want. No need for performance tires down south here as I'm looking for longevity with this next set. Hoping to get a 50K tread life if possible. He says I can wait a few thousand miles but might just have him throw on a set Wednesday when I go in for the rotation/alignment check. It was a bit squirrely in the rain the other day which is why I went in and had him look at the treads in the first place. One thing I don't mess with is tires for us...I want decent tread on all the vehicles in our fleet as no one has time for a flat or blown tire, just isn't necessary. Want safety at all times and don't mind putting on new sneakers a bit early as I've got to do it soon anyways.
Have learned in life "one gets what they pay for". On tires, refuse to get cheap ones that won't last a decent amount of time, that's one thing I won't cheapen out on! Best to buy decent tires at a decent price.

The Sandman

Tires Plus is owned by Bridgestone/Firestone. You don't get a lot of choice, like you would from an independent dealer.

sda

Consumer Reports and Tire Rack are good sources that evaluate and rank tires.

nyccarguy

I added up what I've got in the rainy day fund. As it turns out, I will not need to punch the card to cash the equity out of our paid off Pilot. Since I plan on purchasing snow shoes for the Subie, I'll most likely be holding on to that for a while as well.

Mom's 2016 Cayenne had to go in for service. They pick up her SUV & dropped off a Macan.

rayainsw

Tesla vs. Bolt - one view...

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1107791_woz-got-a-tesla-not-a-chevy-bolt-ev-supercharging-may-be-why

breld

The Volt @suydam just bought seems like quite an ideal choice in the hybrid/electric world, but I do commend Kia for introducing this handsome alternative to the (IMO) ugly new Prius.

Kia Niro

I have no doubt Toyota is still way ahead of most others in the hybrid performance, but man I still can't get into the styling of the new Prius.

fintail

That Kia shows the two schools of thought in the EV/hybrid world - those who want it to look like a normal car. and those who wear it on their sleeve and won't rest until everyone knows it isn't a normal car. There might be room in the market for both. I know which I would choose.

Michaell

breld said:

The Volt @suydam just bought seems like quite an ideal choice in the hybrid/electric world, but I do commend Kia for introducing this handsome alternative to the (IMO) ugly new Prius.

Kia Niro

I have no doubt Toyota is still way ahead of most others in the hybrid performance, but man I still can't get into the styling of the new Prius.

That's quite handsome. And, 180 degrees from the Prius.

suydam

breld said:

The Volt @suydam just bought seems like quite an ideal choice in the hybrid/electric world, but I do commend Kia for introducing this handsome alternative to the (IMO) ugly new Prius.

Kia Niro

I have no doubt Toyota is still way ahead of most others in the hybrid performance, but man I still can't get into the styling of the new Prius.

That looks really nice. I'd look at it if we were replacing the Encore.

28firefighter

So I need some help for my BIL/SIL - they are true original owners of a VW TDI and will be having theirs bought back in early January. They'd ideally like to replace it with an EV of some kind.

The criteria is:
(1) Hatchback/Station Wagon - so they can put stuff for their two kids and possibly the dog in the hatch.
(2) Comfortably seats 4
(3) Decent range
(4) Tech goodies - nav, backup camera, etc.

So far I've suggested:
(1) Kia Soul EV+
(2) Ford Focus Electric
(3) Ford C-Max Energi
(4) Audi A3 e-Tron

Any others I'm not thinking of or any that you would recommend removing from the list? They have a 2015 Ford Flex now as their long-haul vehicle.

suydam

eGolf? Or is VW dead to them?
Too bad they can't wait for a Bolt. That sounds perfect for their needs.